Tokyo Endurance - 787B

Discussion in 'GT3 Race Reports' started by LoudMusic, Feb 2, 2004.

  1. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic

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    I ran the Tokyo Endurance in my 0 mile, fresh oil change, super-hard tired 787B last night and today. I'll keep this brief.

    I had never touched my second 787B and decided to throw super hards on it and give it an oil change. I don't know exactly what that brings the horse power to, but it was way more than enough. I was 9 laps ahead of second place at the finish.

    I took it relatively easy due to the super hards being rather slippery. The first lap saw lots of bumping while I struggled to get a handle on the car and the JGTC crew was nipping at my heals. I couldn't keep it off the walls on anything sharper than a 45 degree turn.

    Second lap was much improved, but I was still sliding around. When will these tires go green!?! Oh, midway through the THIRD lap. I wasn't expecting them to be quite this resiliant to wear, but that just meant I was going to get more laps before my pit cycle was determined.

    After the tires went green I was riding the line like a bullet train on fresh rails. I was clipping off laps 1:30 average, and even as low as 1:28. Rarely over 1:32 so I was feeling good about consistancy. Glancing at the pack I was about 1/10 of the track ahead of them and knew it would be several laps before I saw them again. Unless they went crazy with the pit schedule.

    At lap 22 - 23 I was figuring I could make it another 10 laps minimum before pitting. Two pits for a 100 lap race? WOW! My average lap time came down another second, as did my fastest lap. I'm not exactly sure what it was - something like a 1:27.2xx. It feels soooo goooood to watch those times come down. I wish there was an onscreen average lap time as well. Something that would update every lap.

    I passed the field twice by now - they must have been using that crazy pit schedule.

    At lap 32 I didn't know if I could make it to 50 so I decided that I would pit on 33 and 66. But halfway through 33 I decided to take the extra lap in on the first cycle. No big deal as these tires don't change much at all in one lap. So 34 it was. I actually entered the pit right behind the second place car - bumped him as he entered his stall. This is where I went to bed for the night (: The next day he came out with a bigger lead than when we entered and I didn't get to draft him to the corner.

    I did get quite a few nice drafts on the straights. Unfortunately that usually came on bad laps and only got me back to my standard times. I had a few that went crazy and ended up in the 1:35 range - playing pin-ball in the third quarter of the track usually puts on the seconds (: Here I went to help a friend move and came back just an hour ago to finish up the race.

    I was desperately hoping for a sub 2:30:00.000 finish time and I calculated an average of 1:29.250. I knew I could get those times, but could I get them now. The oil light was on somewhere around lap 72 and I was down an unknown amount of power. Lap after lap I clipped off 1:30s to 1:32s. I couldn't get under 1:30 to save my life. If I got a good start then I'd slam into the guard coming out of the red paint. If I got a poor start I'd be shining clean the rest of the lap - and fast too! Such frustration.

    I finished at 2:33:35.143. I know I can do it faster, but there's no way I'm going to sit through two and a half hours of that skreetching rotor motor again.

    Tokyo is one of my favorites. And the AI cars for this race are some of my favorite cars too. I might throw together an RX-7 LM for this, or maybe an S2000 LM and see what I can come up with.

    Subtracting 20 seconds per pit I come up with 1:31.75x as my lap average. That seems high, but I guess I did have some woppers in there.
     
  2. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic

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    I just looked at my fastest lap time with the Arcade 787B. I ran a 1:24.159. Hmm, through my number crunching and assuming I averaged 1:26.000 I would have finished FIVE MINUTES ahead of the time I got with the configuration I ran. BLAST!
     
  3. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

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    Hi, Loud. Nice writeup! Bit of a bazooka to use in that gunfight, though.

    I ran the R246 marathon in a stock Jaguar XJ220 racecar on T2s. Fast laps were in the 1':37.low" range, and my MOV was about 37.high" over the Denso Supra and the Raybrig NSX. It was a fun race.
     
  4. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic

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    I'm looking at a stock RX-7 LM and a stock S2000 LM. Both come out about 1.5 to 2 seconds per lap too fast. Depending on the pit cycle they might be about right.

    I'm not a fan of the Shaguar. I'll give it a looksee though.
     
  5. phattboy

    phattboy

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    715
    Enjoyed the write-up!

    I felt your pain when you were talking about a couple hours of listening to the "whiner":D Can't say as I have ever run the 787b there but I would have to cop to having used a bazooka there myself at time or two:lol:

    Appreciate you taking the time to do a write up. It's nice to have other's experiences to read about. Good Job!!!

    phattboy
     
  6. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic

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    This is strange, but I think the MR-2 G Limited or whatever is looking to be my car. Wow. Never thought I'd use it for anything. I need to run some laps and see what I come up with before I head to the endurance, though.
     
  7. phattboy

    phattboy

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    715
    Looks like you are going to go for a really tough and competitive race! Never spent much time in the MR-2 G Limited myself so I don't know much about it. Don't even know what kind of HP you can get out of the thing off hand. Good Luck!:cool:

    phattboy
     
  8. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic

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    Well ...

    The MR-2 GT-S was actually the one I was thinking of. Fully tricked it comes to 512 HP which is substantially more than the JGTC cars. Unfortunately it doesn't have the handling to keep up in the corners nore the top speed to come close on the straights. I was down by 3 or 4 seconds every lap.

    I have a new pick. I ran the S2000 LM with medium-slicks and no HP upgrades (616HP) on the Pro JGTC Tokyo 15 lap race and won by a few seconds. If my brain wasn't fried I'd do a write up of that. Instead I'll do the endurance again in this car and take notes.
     
  9. phattboy

    phattboy

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    715
    I'll look forward to reading the write-up:D

    phattboy
     
  10. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

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    What about the Autobacs MR-S or C-West Silvia? The JGTC-300 cars might turn the trick, possibly with a Stage 1 power upgrade.
     
  11. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic

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    C-West ... that's actually what I won after finishing the endurance the first time. I could do that but my performance tends to go way down with power upgrades. I'll look into the MR-S, but I also have something against driving purely hideous cars (:
     
  12. phattboy

    phattboy

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    715
    Funny, I was thinking something similar.

    Recently, (since you reintroduced the Clio to me) I ran the Tokyo enduro a ways just testing out the Clio with Stage 2 upgrade to see where it would fall. Fun Race for about 7 laps.

    The Rabrig did the usual jump out to the lead. Bad setup and driving on my part allowed him about a 6-7 second lead. By lap two, I had the Castrol NSX and the Supra (Tom's I think, don't really matter) in hand. When the Rabrig pitted on lap 7, he was about 3-4 seconds ahead of me and I had been slowly reeling him in.

    Taking the lead at that point, the Tom's and the Castrol NSX were still nipping at my heels by I think around 3-5 seconds. At that point I don't think I even needed to pay attention to the Locktite or whatever else was there. By lap 10, the T2s on the Clio were just yellow and I had increased that lead to around 6-8 seconds.

    I believe it was on lap 12 the Tom's and Castrol NSX dropped in the pits and the Rabrig emerged from behind them to set in second place for a couple more laps. The Rabrig dropped into the pits again on lap 14.

    I made lap 15 with the T2s on the Clio and think I might have been able to go to 20 before really needing to pit (although I didn't verify that yet).

    Based on this, I am intending to give the Clio a test in the same fashion with only a Stage 1 Turbo. I think it will easily be doable with clean racing to boot considering the pit strategy of the AI and how well the Clio handles if you can keep the momentum/rhythm. Unlike when I ran the Deutsche Series in the Clio, where you have such short races that you have make some "not so clean" passes to keep rhythm and then do a little blocking to keep the lead, this is a long race with pit time to play with. I almost think it is doable in the Stock Clio but that might be a bit of a stretch.

    Bearing in mind this is all just testing and I haven't yet run the whole race, but, based on that, the Autobacs MR-2, the C-West or the Spoon all fall pretty close to the Clio and therefore offer the same possibilities.

    Although... I gotta tell ya... I'm really likin' the Clio!:D The little runt is like a David against Goliath.:cool:

    phattboy
     
  13. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer

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  14. phattboy

    phattboy

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    715
    AHA!! It's a miracle I tell ya! I noticed the miracle of the Rabrig in Grand Valley enduro recently too;)

    I'll bear this in mind...

    BTW, I'm thinking, how did I miss this writeup by you in Jan?:confused: Then I realized, 2003... Not much gets by me I tell ya... I'm so bright my mama calls me son you know!

    phattboy
     
  15. phattboy

    phattboy

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    715
    :boggled: Okay now I know what you were talking about UB...:boggled:

    You got me wondering because you wouldn't have pointed out your post without a reason. So... I went and ran the race out a little further with the Clio before I went down to the Stage 1 Turbo. Man does the Rabrig cheat!! :irked: Liberal dose of freebie time!! And folks I mean LIBERAL DOSE!! :eek:

    I pitted at lap 20 just to see what was up. I get nailed the normal pit time and come out with cold tires. And what do I immediately see in my rearview? YEP, there is Mr. Rabrig who suddenly made up some 30 seconds and now around 5 seconds back of me!:odd: I went into the pit almost 35 seconds in the lead! However, there is no doubt in my mind at this point the race is winable with Stage 2 in the Clio because I can keep ahead of the Rabrig and he pits next time around.

    Needless to say, I did go back to Stage 1 in the Clio and I can pretty much guarantee you it will take a WAY better driver than me to win this enduro in a Clio with Stage 1. By the time the Rabrig hit the pits on lap 7, I was to far back to even catch him.

    And... that pretty much puts egg on my face for the Clio Stock statement of earlier today.:dopey:

    I also tried the Spoon and discovered very quickly, I don't think I could be competitive in that either. About the same as the Clio with stage 1.

    I do think the Autobacs or C-West are pretty good candidates with stage 2 Turbos.

    Didn't mean to take over your thread here LoudMusic;) You just got me all interested in this Enduro!:idea:

    phattboy
     
  16. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic

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    Isn't that what it's all about? Getting eachother inspired!

    What is the time to beat on this enduro? I mean, against the AIs of course.

    I'm going to run a stock S2000 LM with tire choice remaining. Any suggestions?
     
  17. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer

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    "About" 2 Hours 47 Minutes :tup:

    IMO: Waaaay Too Much HP! S2000 LM w/Oil Change=586. Calsonic Skyline w/Oil Change=485. Check Der Alta's Write-up here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/t-23343.html. I answered his challenge & slightly bettered his time, but didn't do a follow-up report, so 485 HP is plenty! Have FUN !!! ...UB57 :D
     
  18. phattboy

    phattboy

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    715
    In the Clio testing last night with Stage 2, I was winning the race and running in the range of 1:37.xxx to 1:39.xxx per lap. Mind you, I was trying to keep most of the laps in the lower range of that to account for pit stop laps which you obviously can't run in that range. I also was just testing and only running out to about 25 laps and gauging the probable win on that. I think it is pretty accurate though.

    In the thread UB referred to he was talking about that same range if I recall... like 1:38.xxx or something along those lines.

    Ultimately I think over the long haul of the race, it will depend on your pit strategy. IE: You pit every 10, faster lap times, you pit at 20, you can run just a little slower and still get the win.

    Someone correct me here if I am wrong... I've only just now got the egg off my face from yesterdays post.

    phattboy
     
  19. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic

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    But you're still talking about coming out laps ahead at the finish.
     
  20. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer

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    :DTRUE!:tup:
    :D If I were to try this again I think I'd use the Razo Sylvia w/about 400HP. When we ran the Diablo at Grand Valley Enduro I had to set it up w/about 100 HP LESS than the JGTC Cars to make for a good race. I'll see if I still have a Tokyo Enduro Replay & check what kind of HP they're running...UB57
    :D
    EDIT: Here's the actual times from the "Next to Last" time I ran it w/Calsonic. IMO 46 & 59 seconds is pretty close after nearly 3 Hours of racing. :eek:

    Total Time @ Lap #100: 167'43.824
    Lead: 46.xxx over Denso Sard Supra
    Lead: 59.xxx over Raybrig NSX
    Best Lap: 1'37.119 (Set between Laps 30 & 40)
     
  21. phattboy

    phattboy

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    715
    As I said, I was only running out 25 laps to "gauge" the win. Because of that, I can't be the one to say "laps" ahead.

    However, in the thread UB was referring to that Der Alta wrote, it looks like Der Alta ran an average lap of 1'38.484 and ended up a couple laps up. You also may want to notice though, he says most of his laps were in the 1'37 range and that he ran low lap of 1'35.473. So I guess a couple laps looks like what that target nets you.

    I will say this... at one point, I was running the Clio on low HP and racking up 1'39.xxx-141.xxx lap times and running right close the whole time to the Raybrig. I was having so much fun swapping the lead back and forth I ran that out to a good 40 laps and still swapping paint for the lead. I don't think therefore, in that range you are going to be lapping anyone significant in the race. UB's original redirect post to his writeup kinda proves that out. In that post his fast lap looks like it was 1'37:119 and says most of his laps were in the 38's and 39's. He ended up 46.xxx over the Denso and 59.xxx over the Rabrig.

    Amazing how just a second or two a lap can make soooo much difference over the long haul of 100 laps:eek:

    phattboy
     
  22. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic

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    2:47:00.000 ... hrmmm. There aren't enough entries at GT3Times to get barings on this. They don't run a wide enough field of cars.

    Call that 10,000 seconds. Subtract 200 for nine pit stops at a 10 lap pit schedule, divide by 100 laps ... 1:38.000 average lap. Again, according to GT3Times the RX-7 LM and S2000 LM are nearly 8 seconds fast with stock HP. Ok, so you're right :rolleyes: (:

    The Calsonic Skyline is entirely too fast as well. And besides, there's already that whole slew of official JGCT racers in the race. I wanted something different but still Japanese. Maybe I can take a street car to the endurance.

    By the way, I don't know if I've mentioned, I've used the 15 lap JGTC at Tokyo in Professional as a test race for cars. It's the same fleet, same level of AI, and same track. They generate similar times.
     
  23. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic

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    I was thinking about that myself. Even just a half second generates a 50 second change in finish time. That's a half a lap! :eek:
     
  24. phattboy

    phattboy

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    715
    If you don't have the replay, I did save one of my "shorties" last night just to find out what tires they were running... When I looked, there was no added power multiplier or extra equipment so I assume they were running stock HP. Didn't extract a car and load it up to see what the game thought they were running though. The tires were interesting to see. Tires make a whole bunch of difference at R246 on lap times for me.:D

    I ran and ran the Clio modified to just over 400HP and couldn't quite do it with T-2s. At 425 HP in the Clio, me and the Rabrig swapped a bunch of lead time. At 435 HP it was a steady pull away... slow but steady. Now, with T-3s on the other hand, you keep the Rabrig a little more honest on his time since you pit right with him if your HP is just right.

    phattboy
     
  25. phattboy

    phattboy

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    715
    On the other hand, you got me all interested in this stupid thing and now I have this specially modded up Clio with special HP in my keeping that I would be glad to share with you if you have MK's and a sharkport to load it up and give it a go-round. I'll warn you though, it is a bugger of a race...:D

    phattboy
     
  26. LoudMusic

    LoudMusic

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    Interesting idea. Unfortunately I have no sharkport. Still working on that (:
     
  27. phattboy

    phattboy

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    715
    Oh man... Get one!!! Cheap at WalMart or ShopKo and it opens up a whole new realm of GT3.:cool:

    phattboy
     
  28. Sleek Stratos

    Sleek Stratos

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    Aw, crud. This thread just reminded I have to do the Tokyo enduro. Nice write-up LM, too much car though for such a race.
    I've been thinking about using a Autobacs MR-S for it, however I've already done some testing and I still kinda hammered the competition, so I'll have to keep looking around.
     
  29. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer

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    :eek: With How Much HP??? :confused:
    :D IMO: To have a decent Race w/JGTC Cars you have to be about 100 HP LOWER than they are. If you have the same HP in a similar chassis you'll "Hammer 'em" for sure. I'm gonna try the Razo Sylvia w/385-425 HP soon as these guys are running 485-525 HP. phattboy is fine tuning a Clio, maybe we can get LoudMusic to give the Spoon S2000 a try. That way we'll have all the 299HP (Stock) Racers covered.:tup:...UB57
    :D
     
  30. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer

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    Indeed:
    :D I found the replay of the Final Time I ran the Calsonic in response to Der Alta's Challenge. 163'10.707 w/Best Lap of 1'35.192 means I probably had 'em by about 2 Laps at the end. I think the Clio or one of the "JGTC Junior" Racers can win this w/around 400 HP. Bad weather due in here tomorrow, if there aren't too many T-Storms accompanying the rain maybe I'll give it a shot...UB57
    :D