Toyota Gets SMART With the iQ; Sells it as a Scion in the US

[Metar]

It just saves weight. They don't have to fit temperature-controls and displays - just ask the passengers how much their ass hurts.

 

[Tornado]

I wouldn't get so hung up on RWD anyway in these city cars. They aren't E30s or Mk2 Escorts - you aren't going to get any massive powerslides out of them and they certainly won't be quick. The fun will be from them being tiny and managing to nip through tiny gaps like an old Mini.

That's not the point. VW had the chance to legitimately revive the Beetle in spirit if not in name. They probably even could have sold large numbers of them in America based on that alone. Then they throw it to the wind.

RWD is an interesting one with packaging too, especially if you're trying to fit 4 seats in. I know the old Fiat 500 and 600 etc did it, but it rather requires a sloping or a longer back end so that the rear seats don't end up being compromised by the engine too badly.

 

[homeforsummer]

That's not the point. VW had the chance to legitimately revive the Beetle in spirit if not in name. They probably even could have sold large numbers of them in America based on that alone. Then they throw it to the wind.

Oh I understand that, I was more referring to the iQ with that comment anyway. That said, the RWD thing still isn't that important when we're talking about small city cars. The Beetle wasn't the revolution it has been because it was rear engined, it's been a revolution because of the design and because it was accessible to so many people. The original Mini on the other hand, was revolutionary because it had a transverse engine and FWD, and that allowed it much more passenger space in a small area than something like a RR Fiat 500 did. From a packaging point of view, FF simply makes more sense in a city car.

Very clever, but the "i" is a good 40cm longer than the iQ (3395mm vs 2985mm), for example. It also has enough of a boot that the engine can go nicely beneath that instead of stealing passenger space.

You can see where the engine goes in the i there. If you have a gander at the iQ, you'd struggle to fit an engine nicely in the back in that car. Especially the 1.4 td that the iQ will be available with, as opposed to the i's 1.0 maximum.

 

[homeforsummer]

More iQ news: Japanese "Best Car" magazine come up with a computer-gen image of a potential iQ convertible.

Source

The article on carscoop seems to think that the car would retain it's 3+1 layout, but I'm not so sure. As illustrated above, there isn't a great deal of space to begin with, so I'd half expect - if Toyota did produce a convertible iQ - that they'd have to abandon either the boot or the rear seats. Convertible roofs aren't the easiest of things to package. The smart fortwo manages, but then it only has two seats to deal with and they've also perched the roof rather lazily, basically above the drop-down boot.

It'd undoubtably sell though. The convertible fortwo seems to do okay, even with the crummy weather we get here!

 

[YSSMAN]

Why have manufacturers abandoned the "roll back" canvas roofs? That would seem like the best way to make an open-top small car...

 

[homeforsummer]

You mean like the smart Roadster had? Or even the Citroen 2CV? I agree, although it's not a full convertible it certainly takes up less space and would still give you a fairly authentic convertible feeling.

 

[niky]

Mhmmm... the Smart Roadster... now there's a car I was sad to see go. Not because it was a particularly great car, but it had appeal, and was actually semi-affordable, in a way... If I'd had the money at the time...

I'm looking at the iQ and all I'm seeing is a Kei car that's been cut short and given big wheels... not particularly revolutionary... and one has to wonder if it's just a bridge too far for people looking for economical cars... especially since in the current economic climate, price of admissions counts for much, much more nowadays than the price of gas.

 

[homeforsummer]

Mhmmm... the Smart Roadster... now there's a car I was sad to see go. Not because it was a particularly great car, but it had appeal, and was actually semi-affordable, in a way... If I'd had the money at the time...

The smart Roadster is one of my all-time favourite cars. I'd absolutely love to own one, but not remotely in the financial position at the moment. Fantastic looks and great handling and capable of 60mpg? Yes please!

I'm looking at the iQ and all I'm seeing is a Kei car that's been cut short and given big wheels... not particularly revolutionary... and one has to wonder if it's just a bridge too far for people looking for economical cars... especially since in the current economic climate, price of admissions counts for much, much more nowadays than the price of gas.

I don't know if you're referring to the iQ as a Kei car literally, but it isn't one as it's too wide and the engines are too big. I'd definitely suggest there's a market for it, at least in the UK where a premium feel counts for an awful lot (where the 3-series outsells the Mondeo, as a good example). It'll also be distinctive enough to sell itself, just like the smart does. In fact, smart don't advertise on TV, and I expect Toyota will, so given the potential extra advertising and the fact that it offers extra seats, I wouldn't be surprised if it bridges the market between the smart and other four-seat superminis and sells quite happily in it's own little niche.

I do agree with you though - as I've mentioned earlier in this thread, when the iQ is likely to cost a good £2k more than Toyota's own Aygo which has the same engines and more space, and still manages 60mpg in the petrol version, you do still have to wonder at the point of the iQ.

 

[Moglet]

Why have manufacturers abandoned the "roll back" canvas roofs? That would seem like the best way to make an open-top small car...

Keep your eyes open for the Fiat 500 convertible if you like the canvas roof idea!

I really like the iQ, I've been reading about it in Top Gear magazine in which they awarded it 'Best Small Car of 2008' and it's apparently packed full of features for such a small car, but the price bugs me a bit.

The basic model is £9,495, that's the same price as my car was. There's no contest between a 1.2 Fiat 500 Lounge and a 1.0 iQ for me.

 

[EA11R]

That's not the point. VW had the chance to legitimately revive the Beetle in spirit if not in name. They probably even could have sold large numbers of them in America based on that alone. Then they throw it to the wind.

I wouldn't be too certain, at least perhaps with my slice of America. The only people I know who take Volkswagen seriously are the ones I have personally reeducated. And even then, I have under 50% success rate at that. Everyone has this antiquated view of Volkswagens that they not only should be, but are cheaper and cuter than anything else out there. I've only ever seen two Phaetons, for instance. course, ah done seen a WHOLE LOTTA them tour-eggs but, them're S-U-Vs, an that there's the only thing worth buying on foar wheels if you ain't no youre-a-peein [Expletive?].

Americans are also absolutely unoffended by New Beetles*, once you subtract the people who loathe them for their their bubbly-princess drivers. I'm still livid for what it did to my sister. She owns one, forced upon her by Papa, at great financial idiocy ("Dad, I need a car." So he recommends her something which got her ousted from certain academic groups, costs much, breaks down often, is in rubbish condition, and has the much-maligned manual box. Why? "It's cute!" -my father says. I've lost much respect for him due to that.). And she is presently completely freaking Brittany-Spears-montage-fodder. Pink handbag, high heels, dance-driving, and even a fantastic 37-year-old Italian male model as her boyfriend*. But I digress.

The majority of Americans*, in their absolute automotive distaste and idiocy, patronizingly believe that the only part of the original Beetle which should be revived (indeed, the only feature present) is the styling and price. Sure, the exclamation point in the name of the Up! is liable to attract the very least intelligent potential buyers, but only very lowest intellectual class will buy a car for punctuation alone. Americans, suprisingly, aren't that stupid.

And now to tend to the asterisks:

* Why are New Beetles offensive? The original Beetle was designed with efficiency in mind (not exclusively fuel efficiency, mind you, but every sort of efficiency, such as manufacturing and repair) and became the functional People's Car before any insect at all. It is only due to it's intrinsically charming design that the hippies and stereotypical women began to chase after it here in the states. The New Beetle is a departure, and therefore disgrace, from all of that; It's a less practical, more expensive form of the Golf, designed solely with image in mind, screaming at the top of it's lungs (In size 36 font, actually, but I don't feel idiotic enough to emulate that verbatim) "I'M CUTE! I'M CUTE! LOOK AT ME! LOOK! LOOOOOOOOK! [Rinse, Repeat]." It's an undignified, stupid, impractical, and patronizing disgrace. Oddly, it also has about 80% front/back symmetry.

* I'd like to emphasize that I am in no way being sarcastic or exaggerating about my sister's fall. It's so stereotypical, so annoying, and corrupted such a wonderfully dignified person, that I expect no one to believe it. Though, that 37 is conservative; I cannot remember whether he's 37 or 39. Either way, that's quite a match to her 19.

* Which I have met. After all, can't spoil the rhythm of that sentence, can you? It implies... forgiveness.

Do I really need political reasons to hate America? Either way, thanks for reading! And, as I'm sure I've angered a few users, please emphasize logic rather than emotion and offensiveness when writing your counter-arguments. I love academic debate, but emotional shouts often outweigh those. And I think I've managed to hide just a little bit of logic in mine. Somewhere...

I've got it! The whole thing is vaguely logical, buried under a thick crust of disapproval and disproportionately high focus on evidence!

 

[Jim Prower]

EDIT: impulse post. I didnt' read that you lived in California...If I had, I'd have gone easier on you...

The primary issue with a full-on Beetle revival, rear-engine and all, is well-outlaid in Unsafe at Any Speed. Lift. Off. Oversteer. The original beetle's engine was small enough, light enough, and didnt' make enough power, that it avoided this sort of reputation, but now, we'd be looking at a minimum of 100HP, (unless we're going something the size of an MCC Smart, which is so short and tall it's a poor handler in its own right.) and with inexpensive, unsophisticated chassis components, likely MacPherson Struts in front and perhaps even in back, if not Torsion Beam, and with the added weight of water cooling and emissions equipment, (aircooleds are intrinsically dirtier and louder) You'd have the old "Don't Lift" syndrome in spades. Combine that with a cheap car...and VW'd be lynched.

Now, if it were more of a sports car, that might be more acceptable, particularly if it were a downsized Porsche 911 underneath. That'd be more of a 356 revival, though...

 

[EA11R]

Naturally, the rear-engine business did have a large impact upon the car, but I was more referring to a proper Beetle revival being something wholly unpretentious, practical, sensible, and reliable. Primarily, I'd list the good qualities of the Beetle as cleverness and, being a totally new car, it didn't worry much about platform sharing; so, much could be specifically tailored to that car, and better for it.

Basically, I just mean a genuine revival wouldn't sell in the Colonies; efficient packaging (critical to good car) can't easily coexist with even 'cuter' styling than the New Beetle (critical to USA purchase). Honestly, Vee-Dub could fool me by importing a previous-gen Polo; from over here, it'd seem revolutionary, and likely well-done.

Speaking of which:

Vee-Dub, Can we has Polo?

 

[YSSMAN]

Speaking of which:

Vee-Dub, Can we has Polo?

Keep a close eye on how well the Fiesta performs, you may get your wish. I still wonder just what exactly VW has planned for their new North American plant...

 

[niky]

The Beetle spirit can go on... but nowadays, that would preclude the Beetle shape... just because it's not as economical to make such a complex shape, anymore... a new "Beetle" just wouldn't be as mass-market as its forbearer... and it wasn't.

If you're looking for the Beetle spirit... it's in cars like the Honda Fit, the Scion xB (first generation... the second generation has as much relation to the first as the "New Beetle" does to the original) or the Nissan Cube... cars which are incredibly useful and cheap to run.... and in the case of the Fit, fun to drive.

 

[EA11R]

Keep a close eye on how well the Fiesta performs, you may get your wish. I still wonder just what exactly VW has planned for their new North American plant...

Yay!

If you're looking for the Beetle spirit... it's in cars like the Honda Fit, the Scion xB (first generation... the second generation has as much relation to the first as the "New Beetle" does to the original) or the Nissan Cube... cars which are incredibly useful and cheap to run.... and in the case of the Fit, fun to drive.

To quote Richard Hammond of Top Gear: "And the best British roadster, like it is with so many things these days...

...is Japanese."

I guess it's right, but still saddens me just a teeny bit, yah? Also, bonus for knocking the new xB. I feel similarly to the xB's as I do with Beetles, just minus anger and personal experience (probably correlated, those two.).

I guess the xB proves that Japan is way faster than most anywhere else: The xB did in a few years what it took the Beetle a half-century to accomplish!

Offish-topic: Am I the only one who wants a Fit "Hybrid" with the new, more exciting powertrain and the old, disco, everything else?

 

[niky]

I've been waiting, but with Honda greenlighting the Insight at a ridiculously low MSRP, I don't see it happening.

If the Insight comes in at basic Civic prices... I'm sold... I'd actually buy a hybrid for that much.

 

[EA11R]

I've been waiting, but with Honda greenlighting the Insight at a ridiculously low MSRP, I don't see it happening.

If the Insight comes in at basic Civic prices... I'm sold... I'd actually buy a hybrid for that much.

Not gas-electric hybrid. New-Old hybrid. Actually, I'm certain I am the only one who wants that...

 

[YSSMAN]

Guess What America!? You Can Have Your iQ Too!

Toyota's Scion brand has been busy overhauling its lineup over the past year. We've gotten a reworked xB and the new xD.

Now, Scion increases its iQ. These concept-car spy shots show a car ready for New York's bright lights next week.

This Scion iQ looks similar to the Toyota iQ city car now on sale in Europe. The iQ is billed as a 3+1. That means it could carry three adults and a child, or some luggage. Its size and shape bring to mind the Smart Fortwo.

Though it's small, the iQ has earned top safety rankings in Europe. Leading its safety features is an airbag that deploys to cover the rear window, protecting the heads of back-seat passengers in a rear collision.

Officially, this Scion iQ is a concept. But there's little doubt that a production version will hit Scion's U.S. dealerships in the near future.

Hooray? Hey, if its cheap and fuel efficient and moderately fun to drive, I see no reason why Toyota (erm, Scion) would have any problems selling them here.

 

[Prosthetic]

Looks like Pikachu.

 

[Philly]

I bet that's what they are shooting for.

It'll be interesting to see how the public receives it.

 

[Giancarlo]

It's quirky - which i believe companies are using as too strong a feature on too many small cars - but, in this case i kind of like it.

 

[Tornado]

Hey, if its cheap and fuel efficient and moderately fun to drive, I see no reason why Toyota (erm, Scion) would have any problems selling them here.

Because Toyota has a very, very narrow price window to sell the car in (one that will likely be eclipsed); and selling it as a Scion manages to circumvent one problem while adding two more.

 

[Hugo Boss]

Hooray? Hey, if its cheap and fuel efficient and moderately fun to drive, I see no reason why Toyota (erm, Scion) would have any problems selling them here.

Here in The Netherlands it costs over 1800 Euro's more than a Yaris/Vitz/Echo

Cars are more expensive here, but you can expect 1500 Dollars over a standard Yaris. I'd say it's way too expensive for a Toyota, but time will tell if it will become succesful...

 

[Freddie]

I'd say it's way too expensive for a Toyota, but time will tell if it will become succesful...

I agree. I have a hunch that it'd sell better if it was branded as a Lexus here in Europe, since the brand name would justify the price, and the edgier design is already more Lexus than Toyota.

 

[YSSMAN]

Because Toyota has a very, very narrow price window to sell the car in (one that will likely be eclipsed); and selling it as a Scion manages to circumvent one problem while adding two more.

A solid point. That, and Scion doesn't has much thats worth a damn outside of the xD now that they've ruined the xB, and let the tC continue on without change. Perhaps the iQ and whatever they'll call the RWD Toyobaru (tD?) will fix that.

Otherwise, I would hope that it wouldn't cost too much more than $12-13K. Thats Fiesta and (probably) 500 territory.

 

[YSSMAN]

There It Is

Details Here

Hey Toyota:

Slap a $13K sticker price on it, don't let prices inflate past $16K, and you'll sell a bunch. Just, uh, skip the massive wheels and silly bodykit, alright?

 

[Tornado]

Holy awful bodykits Batman!
Really, do they think that 40 year olds will be into that sort of hack job?

 

[homeforsummer]

Toyota iQ "unsuitable" for UK driving test

City car fails driving test

* DSA bans Toyota's IQ from driving exam
* Government agency cites lack of all-round vision
* IQ joins list of other cars not allowed for the road test

Learner drivers won't be able to take their test in a Toyota IQ because the Driving Standards Agency (DSA) claims the car is 'not suitable'.

The ban was declared after the DSA carried out a risk assessment and claimed the IQ suffers from a lack of all-round vision and the examiner's view is particularly restricted when the test candidate is tackling roundabouts or turning right.

Complaints from a DSA examiner, including the restricted visibility and the car's rear blind spots, prompted the risk assessment.

However, similar shaped cars such as the Smart ForTwo are deemed suitable for the driving test. The DSA says the reason is because there have been no complaints in connection with the Smart.

In response a Toyota spokesperson said: "There are no issues regarding the IQ's safety. We have asked the DSA for clarification of the methodology used in terms of how the vehicles are tested and what criteria they have to meet."

The IQ joins other cars such as the convertible versions of the Ford KA, MINI and Volkswagen Beetle that are not allowed to be used for the driving exam.

According to the DSA any car that is used for the driving test must allow examiners all round vision, especially when the learner is performing reverse manoeuvres, or coming out of sharp-angled junctions.

Other models can be deemed unsuitable for the driving test if they have suffered certain safety problems or been the subject of particular official recalls. Examples include Renault's Clio II and Campus models that suffered from faulty bonnet catches.

If your car is affected by a recall then the driver has to provide proof that the required work has been completed. If not then your test could be cancelled by the DSA with no refund offered.

For more information go to the DSA website and here for the list of cars banned from the driving exam.

Source: Parker's

Whoops.

Doesn't really surprise me, if I'm honest. I personally think that young drivers now are much worse off learning to drive than even I was seven years ago. Visibility in most modern cars is pretty shocking and that a city car - where you'd assume visibility to be paramount - is effectively useless for taking the test in is pretty galling.

It's funny that it's a Toyota too, actually. I remember when the Yaris first came out I wasn't expecting any of them to be used as driving school cars. Why? Well, the fancy speedometer is a digital LCD affair, and is completely invisible to the passenger. I was quite surprised when I started seeing them being used by driving schools - even more surprised when one of those was the guy who taught me to drive, who'd chopped in his Fiesta for it.

 

[niky]

That's something though... like Toyota, I'd like to know what objective criteria a car has to meet to have "acceptable" all-around visibility, because, quite frankly, a lot of brand new cars are rubbish in this regard, anyway.

 

[Jim Prower]

Geez. All I had to do was drive around a block in a one-horse town without passing stop signs or crosswalks.