"Tranny Trick" De-bunked

Discussion in 'GT4 Tuning' started by rk, Jun 11, 2005.

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  1. rk

    rk

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    466
    I have tried to hold my tongue on this one, but the enthusiasm over this fad is dismaying. The Tranny Trick, I have seen the procedure described several ways, is intended to somehow provide faster or stronger acceleration in the areas where we need it. The notion of a one-shot-cure-all for gear changes, similar to changing the oil or adding a turbo for engines, certainly is alluring; but common sense should prevail. Consider for a moment the logic that the act of winding through the gears, no matter how placed, is essentially a linear process. You start at zero and end at redline in top gear, regardless how tall or short the individual gears are. Now you apply a sweeping change that modifies all ratios uniformly, and want to believe that is somehow superior. You say it improves your quarter mile time? I say you need to do some more experementation. I have seen clear examples racing against a lap ghost where the only change was the application or removal of "the tranny trick" and the unmodified gearbox pulled carlengths ahead. I have also seen examples where lowering the autoset, (which would lower top speed and allow faster acceleration) increased quater mile time; gearing for acceleration is a complicated ratio between hp torque and speed and is something best tackled with MUCH practice, not some smoke and mirrors trick.
    You want to talk close ratio? OK, a "close ratio" transmission is one where special compromises have been made. It is assumed, usually to compensate for a high horsepower/low torque motor, that the vehicle will spend most of the time at higher speeds, so the first gear or two are set unusually tall, allowing the remainder of the gears to tightly bracket the powerband. All that remains is to set the final to have the engine top out (redline) at the end of the longest straight and aside from setting individual gears for the exit oomph of key turns, you are good to go with a very competetive tranny, just don't stop too much.
    To set your gears up this way in GT4 you must go to the individual gear sliders; you can see on the chart as you change each gears ratio, how the change affects the other ratios. If you set first gear "taller" or "longer", the remainder of the useable range for the other gears becomes "pinched" or shorter. You can then adjust the higher gears so the graph shows them as nice evenly spaced dashes, the goal being to have the low ends of each gear start at the bottom edge of the powerband, with top gear running off the chart through redline.
    A high torque motor, like a big V-8, will probably turn low quater mile times with somewhat taller gears, designed to draw upon the extremly long powerband and minimize the acceleration lost to shifting, such a gear box could cross 1000 meters with 3 gears and do it efficiently, while a high revving Ruf might require all six gears to drive the same course...
    A GT4 transmission set up this way would have long diagonal dashes with first gear set "for pulling tree stumps", on through the highest rev the motor could pull from, to the next gear (big RPM drop), etc. on to terminal velocity or the gears run out. If your gears are too tall, the engine will lug and falter, too short and you waste valuable hp and time shifting.
    None of this can be done by moving an auto-set back and forth, the best that could be accomplished is the possibility that the gear ranges are made more even in relation to each other. The trick has no bearing on where they stand in relation to the powerband, or even if it was better to truncate the taller gears to make them all even. My shoot-from-the-hip guess: sometimes better, sometimes worse.

    Now before you slap that reply button, read carefully that I am not soliciting myopic testemonials about how the tranny trick saved your marriage, or averted civil war, or any other tranny trick dogma. I will simply respond that you could have doubled your improvement by massaging your gearbox any other arbitrary way just as likely, did you try any of them to eliminate that most basic argument (and the foundation of scientific study)? I welcome charted results, or even well researched testemonials. Or you can simply agree that there is no "quick fix" for gears. (I think thats what the auto is supposed to be.)
     
  2. Nate14Gt

    Nate14Gt

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    80
    Well said. I barely ever use the tranny trick, because I can find gearing that'll blow it away on 9 cars out of 10. There really isn't any quick fix for gearing, or any other setting. Every car is different, so you can't expect something that works on one car to work on everything else.
     
  3. boombexus

    boombexus Staff Emeritus

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    6,483
    This is a good topic, and you have definately invested some thought in the matter. However, what you said still does not convince me that the Gear Trick is "de-bunked".

    Their is more information and a bit of discussion regarding the Gear Trick, here.

    Famine has some good info as to why the trick works.

    But like I said, this is a good subject and I'm sure that all of us here may like to see some more scientific debate on the matter and how it plays out in GT4.

    Thanks rk. :)
     
  4. rk

    rk

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    466
    I will concede that the trick could possibly have "value" exploiting a bug and it could be used to get a simple close ratio; however, on the occasion previously mentioned, I was running fairly fast laps in the PD F1 at Tokyo, I think in the 1'14 range, not the fastest, but whatever. Anyway, I had the lines down, chasing the ghost, using the trick, of course. So on a hunch I decided to try the "default" option, easy enough to get the trick set back and nothing else was shaving time. Well, you guessed it, I MOTORED past that dude and no, he wasn't yet topped out, it was during ACCELERATION, thats right we were both winding through the gears and to clear this area of speculation, I always use AT. I experemented a little more after that and decided the hassle of setting the trick, running a lap then comparing it to "stock" racing gears wasn't worth it. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.
    Again, I am sure it definately provides an effect, I just believe there may be a different formula that is just as simple but with better results.
     
  5. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

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    24,019
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    Well, I have to say, I don't think the tranny trick is in full force in GT4. But scores of the fastest drivers proved that it definitely worked in GT3, in the board challenges and other competitions.

    In GT4, I'm currently running the Speed World Challenge series in OLR. In my semi-built TSX at Tsukuba, my lap times ended up nearly identical using the tranny trick and the default ratios.
     
  6. Fred.The.Baddie

    Fred.The.Baddie

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    35
    I really don't see all the fuss about this thing. All the trick does is move the RPM range in which you accelerate. So for example, before the trick, you might be gaining 100 km/h between 4800-7000 rpm in a gear. After the trick, you'd be gaining the 100 km/h between 6000-7000, so the engine has less revs to move through before the next gear change. It's an alternate final gear ratio alteration that shouldn't really be able to happen. Yes, you probably already know that.

    The effectiveness of this trick all depends on the power/torque of the engine in the new rev ranges that you've put the gears in. If your car had maximum power between, say 4800-6000 rpm, than using the trick as I described above wouldn't help you much. Though if your engine had maximum power in the new rev range (6-7) then there's an obvious purpose for it. That's why some people think it 'works' and others don't.
     
  7. DarkKni9hT

    DarkKni9hT

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    95
    My take on the "trick" is that it is/was a quick, unreal way to profit from a flaw in the programming of GT3 and maybe to a lesser degree GT4. There is un doubtedly a "jump point" which outsteps the regular progression of gear manipulation if one does this first and then that. It really comes down to taking advantage of a quirk more than anything scientific. If that floats your boat, so be it. It will work, here and there, but it is still a fake fix.
    If you want to truly improve your punch, give this a shot. I am no expert, but the friend who turned all my cars into winners is. For truly optimum utilization of the power band in most cars, set the final gear ratio to 3.83. This, far more so than any tranny trick, is a true mystical number in gearing. My friend, who comes from a long line of tranny mechanics, F1- NASCAR and so on, explained it to me like this. There is an extra turn in the worm screw of a 3.83 rear end gear that makes the wear on the rear end much more even and therefore more stable. This allows the car to optimize the horsepower thrust from motor to wheels in a much more consistent manner than nearly any other gearing setup will allow. Individual gears from 1-6 may vary in accordance to vehicle and driver, but the final will dictate the transfer from motor to tire. Once set to 3.83, use the sports/wide adjustment to set the car up for tracks of different length and speed.
    Trust me on this and give it a try. Debunk me if you can. What I know is that since learning this real life tranny trick from Bill, I have consistently been able to pull away from ANY car of similar horsepower, and hav e actually had to back off considerably in my choice of cars for given races, or else they become simple practices in lap time.
     
  8. sukerkin

    sukerkin

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    2,063
    That's an interesting one, DK. I've studied suspension and transmission dynamics for years now (oddly coinciding with when I bought GT1 :D) and I'[ve not come across that particular 'trade secret'.

    Rest assured I'll give it a go.

    In support of RK, I too have abandoned the 'Tranny Trick' in the past few weeks. I have found that adjusting the Autoset is perfectly adequate to my needs in the game.

    I know that's not really what RK was on about, in that he feels a proper setting up of the gearbox is required (which I won't argue against) but I do think that the 'Tranny Trick' has lost it's teeth (yeah, second automotive pun tonight :punches air:!).

    Even in GT3 I was never a big fan of it for NA aspirated engines as it really worked best for giving tight ratio'd boxes for turbos. In GT4, I think you're better off looking at the torque and power peaks of your engine and trying to order the box to match those for your shift points (as in the rev drop on a gear change puts you at the torque peak).

    Nowadays tho', sadly, I just don't have the time - hence, AutoSet is my friend :(.
     
  9. NISMOgtrztune

    NISMOgtrztune

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    19
    If any of you ever tuned cars on Gran Turismo 1, you'll remember that there was a graph or something that showed you where the car produced max. horsepower and torque. In all the other Gran Turismo games, they do not provide this "graph". To be a little more specific, this graph described the power and torque based on the relative rpm. There is a little one at the top right in the recent games, but you have to kind of guess where the actual power occurs (where in the rev range). This would be part of the answer to the tranny trick. Im proud to say that I hold the quickest quarter mile time on Gran Turismo 1 on this web page. I know its an old game, but what the hell. I used this to tune a skyline R32 which I got the record with. Like RK said before, the auto settings dont really add up when you compare them to the original setup. In Gran Turismo 1, there is no auto setup. There is only a final drive ratio and, of course, individual gear ratios. The final drive, in my opinion, makes the biggest difference. DarkNight had a point when he said that about 3.83. I have found (at least on Gran Turismo 1) that for skylines, this "magic number" to be 4.111. This drive setup brings excellent quarter mile times, and on most occasions the car has such good acceleration that you dont really need top end power so much. So back to the topic, you have to know where the car is making the power. If it be at 7000 rpm, tune the gears so that you will reach the top of the powerband at or a little above 7000. If at 5000, tune for that. It depends on each car. Every car doesn't make the same amount of power at the same exact point. This is where the auto setup fails. So, in conclusion, focus your tuning on the final drive ratio. Believe me, if everything else in the car is tuned correctly, this trick will help lap and quarter mile times.
     
  10. Zardoz

    Zardoz

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    2,208
    Actually, I've never even checked to see if it "works" or not in GT4. I've just been assuming it did, as it did in GT3.

    And for that matter, I guess the value I always placed in the tranny trick was that it was a quick and easy way to get an evenly-spaced set of closer-ratio gears. I'm one of those lame-ass AT users (its all I can do to keep the car pointed in the correct direction on the track, much less think about what gear I'm in) and the trick always seems to give me gear ratios that the automatic shifter seems pretty happy with.

    I've read many comments about players hating how AT often puts you in the wrong gear through a corner and shifts up or down at the wrong time, but it seems to me that it does a pretty good job of being in the gear it should be. Is that because I robotically use the tranny trick on every single car in my garage without realizing that I was doing something that is optimizing the ratios for the automatic?
     
  11. CooperS

    CooperS

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    94
    My 2 cents (fwiw):

    Running numerous laps at de la Sarthe II in b-spec I have not been able to find a final gear setting using the tranny trick that is faster than auto setting 15.

    So my conclusion: b-spec times will not improve using the tranny trick, use the auto setting.

    On a different note: in GT3 I used the tranny trick to improve lap times dramatically, in GT4 it does not seem to matter that much. Messing up the gear settings is much too easy when trying to fine tune each gear. I decided to stick to auto settings in GT4. I am curious to know what the findings are of the OLR regulars.
     
  12. rk

    rk

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    466
    Long ago during GT2 I used to set up the driving station. I wasn't so dismayed to learn my lap times were faster using AT, since engine braking in the GT series has always been a laugh anyway; but when it became apparent that I was faster with my controller I was really disappointed. Now I watch my friends whipping that "gear-soundy" wheel around on their two by four driving "stands" and silently laugh; not to mention I can carry my garage and cordless driving "station" around in the back pocket of my shorts.
    I think it is because many are sportscar dilettantes, aware of and devoted to the art of "performance driving", they overlook the differences between the sim and real life that allow us to enjoy competetive lap times with our automatics. Besides, we're not alone, check the leaderboards, all those "AT's" are posted by drivers who would probably agree with us.
     
  13. DarkKni9hT

    DarkKni9hT

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    95
    OK. Here are my results from an ad hoc tranny test. I chose three random cars and left all settings as they were except for changing up the rear end: first stock, then 3.83, then 4.11. In the case of the final car I had to adjust the autoset as well because it would not stay on the track otherwise. :) All trials were run with b-spec nancy set to 4(fast) withe the sole exception again of having to back off to 3(steady) to keep the last car on the track.
    Here goes.
    Car#1- Nissan GT-R Concept LMP -626bhp
    1 lap at Nurburing - b-spec-4 -autoset 14
    3.545 final(stock) ... 6.39.531
    3.83 final ................ 6.39.199 ... 3.83 losses but by less than 1/2 sec.
    4.11 final ................ 6.38.700

    2 laps at Autumn Ring b-spec-4 -autoset 14
    3.545 final ....... 1.12.158, 1.11.965
    3.83 final ......... 1.13.313, 1.11.524
    4.11 final ......... 1.11.613, 1.11.562


    Car #2- Renault Clio V6 Phase2 - 407bhp
    1 lap at Nurburing - b-spec-4 -autoset 10
    4.07 final(stock) ...... 7.39.334
    3.83 final ................. 7.38.027 ... 3.83 beats two supposedly stronger gears.
    4.11 final ................. 7.40.203

    2 laps at Autumn Ring b-spec-4 -autoset 10
    4.07 final ...... 1.26.808, 1.27.010
    3.83 final ...... 1.27.891, 1.29.167
    4.11 final ...... 1.27.210, 1.28.879
    (The inconsistent times here I reflect to the fact that this car is a puky little ****e-mobile. :yuck: )


    Car #3 Toyota Minolta LMP -1150bhp
    1 lap at Nurburing - b-spec-4 -autoset 17
    3.429 final(stock) ..... 5.49.617
    3.83 final .................. 5.46.050 ... again 3.83 takes out a stronger gear
    4.11 final .................. 5.46.650

    2 laps at Autumn Ring b-spec-3 -autoset 7
    3.429 final ...... 1.11.414, 1.10.397
    3.83 final ........ 1.10.354, 1.11.983
    4.11 final ........ 1.11.509, 1.08.833
    (slight inconsistencies here I attribute to the fact that this car, even with autoset low, is too much for this track.)

    I think, in retrospect, that Autumn Ring may have been a bad choice for this test, as all cars had some trouble remaining tight to the track in all tranny mods, thereby throwing the result times out. The Nurburing results actually pleasantly surprised me in that it provided consistently stronger results and in fact outperforming the 4.11 final on two occasions, which should not be the case. I believe that overall, my case for the 3.83 final ratio has been strengthened though I will not yet go so far as to say proven.

    The other reason for the use of this gear, which we can never prove in GT and therefore must trust my source on the info, is that because of the unique extra turn in the screw, this gear will outlast every other rear end gear over the long haul because it wears more evenly and does not develop weak spots as most other gears do.

    For my money, I trust the 3.83 to the point that every car in my garage that has a full tranny carries it in the rear end and has done since GT the first. In my experience, since starting to use this final drive, there is a consistency of pull-away power through every gear that I believe gives me just that little extra edge in a race. After that it is a matter of setting the autoset to adjust to specific race conditions. Truth or legend? All I know is it works for me. :sly:
     
  14. DuckRacer

    DuckRacer Premium

    Messages:
    10,164
    I've been using the tranny trick on every car I tune (because I used it on a few cars and assumed it worked well on all cars). However, when I was tuning (ie HPA Golf, 300C, yada yada yada), the ghost not using the tranny trick pulled ahead on corners (versus the Golf with the tranny trick) because it stayed in its powerband. Since I have started using manual, the tranny trick seems almost nonexistant. When I was using automatic, the tranny trick was easily noticeable.


    Maybe the shift point has something to do with it? With automatic, it shifts at the redline, regardless of being able to shift later. With manual, I shift very close to where the RPM needle bounces of the rev limiter (usually 500-1000 RPM, sometimes 2000 RPM after the redline). The starting point of the next gear is then 500-1000 RPM higher, and combined with the tranny trick, usually takes it out of its powerband, thus creating slower laptimes.

    I have gotten to the point of not using the tranny trick anymore. At Midfield, using automatic with it, you can shave of a few tenths of a second versus automatic with no trick. Using manual, you can easily shave off a few more tenths with the trick. But you can do that as easily without the tranny trick. I now just use autoset for setting the transmission. It provides as good transmission as it, if not better for tracks.


    My conclusion for the tranny trick? It doesn’t work as well with manual as it does automatic. In fact, with manual, it doesn’t really help one bit.


    At this point in time, DarkKni9ht and I are seeing how this 3.83 and 4.11 final gear affects laptimes at Nürburgring. If his friend Bill is really a real life tuning expert, and if GT4 is as realistic as PD claims, and if this is as good as DarkKni9ht says, then this will be a great alternative to the tranny trick and fine tuning each gear.

    Speaking of fine-tuning each gear, is there a no-brainer way or guide on how to do it? Because when I look at the transmission chart, I just see a bunch of straight lines. When I mess with each individual gear, I just mess it up.



    Duck7892
     
  15. 1989therat

    1989therat

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    717
    nice post..I see theay you've spent alot of time on this..good job





    Register on my website today
     
  16. JParker

    JParker

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    502
    I would have to say I'm on both sides of the fence with this one. Many cars benefit from the tranny trick, but many do not. Especially true in regards to accelerating from low speeds in high powered machines. A few of the higher powered race cars have longer 1st or 2nd gears that seems to help with wheel spin on the lower speed tracks. I use it on some and I've tried it on some and gone back to auto sets and varying finals.

    Great writeup by the way rk, good stuff.

    JParker
     
  17. Canadian Speed

    Canadian Speed

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    563
    It also depends on what you want to do with the "tranny trick".

    Take an RX7, Supra, or "Charged" car. While one could just use the auto to make this car wider, as far as gearing is concerned, one will still find a great deal of wheel spin. However, if you use a reverse tranny trick i.e sliding the final as wide as possible, sliding the auto all the way to one, then to the desired auto setting, you'll notice, or should notice less wheel spin... the other thing this can do, is keep your car at a certain RPM range. This works well for cars that use a charger instead of the N/A tuning, as the charger tends to loose power the higher the RPMs go, you'll notice this in mostly in the final gear, where the engine has nowhere left to go and the RPMs reach their max.

    I to beleive that it's not a fix all, but who wants to take the time to adjust every gear to perfection...

    I also beleive that the tranny trick is much much less effective then it was, but it still has it's applications IMHO...
     
  18. NISMOgtrztune

    NISMOgtrztune

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    19
    Im currenty trying to beat the 1/4 mile time that someone set with the WRX Spec-C. Something like 7.1xx, fastest ive seen in the whole game. Im using the same car and so far ive got 7.8xx. The gearing is somewhat off. For starters, I dont know if some of you do this, but with the WRX (or any high torque/hp car), if you start the car in second instead of first (from a dead stop assuming you redline the engine before dropping the gear) it will drastically improve acceleration times. Ive already done this, but i was wondering if in doing so it was taking the engine rpm out of the powerband on the other gears (im using 5 gears to finish 400m). Ive tried adjusting, manually each gear ratio, in each instance i cant seem to find the power band. The car is so powerful to the point where it never stays in the power band. I think it might be somewhere near 5000 or 6000, but i shift at or above redline. On the other hand, max. torque occurs a few hundred rpm after max. horsepower. Should i shift just after the point which max. hp occurs, or max. torque? Im thinking gears 1-3 shift at torque point (i think torque helps with take off and 0-60 ft. times?possibly?), and the remaining 2 gears shift at the hp point. Any suggestions welcome.
     
  19. Zardoz

    Zardoz

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    2,208

    I'll give you credit, you're not even trying to disguise the fact that you're trying to hijack a thread. You're crusty, that's for sure.

    Give us a break...
     
  20. DarkKni9hT

    DarkKni9hT

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    Hear! Hear!! What that has to do with the tranny trick or rear end gearing is beyond me!
     
  21. NISMOgtrztune

    NISMOgtrztune

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    Hey hey hey!!!! Im not trying to "hijack" this thread or anything! I know its off topic, but cut me some slack! Obvoiusly you guys know alot about transmissions. My question had to do with whether I should set up my tranny a certain way. Man! You'd think i just whipped out a gun and told everybody to hit the floor!!
     
  22. NISMOgtrztune

    NISMOgtrztune

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    By the way, I didnt use the 4.111 final drive gear for any cars other than third and second generation Skylines. With those cars, most of their days they say on the drag strip. Rarely did I ever take them else where, and when I did, suprisingly I didn't even have to change the final drive much. I thought this would be enough to ask my question, but I guess not. Sorry if anyone thought I was taking over.
     
  23. rk

    rk

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    466
    With all the hyperbole and superlatives substituting for truth in the forums these days and the charged nature of the issue at hand, I am sure many of the participants are anxious to see the matter resolved with some measure of cetainty. While an interesting question, your post does not further my goals in starting the thread, thank you anyway.
    Additionally, there is the fact that we are approaching the subject from opposite directions. This thread and the contributors are working on identifying and defining the tools with which we make our cars go. You, already a self described record holder, are trying to use these tools to make your own particular car go faster.
    Thankfully, enough 'big guns" have weighed in that I have made my decision about the trick. Several of them, if I am not mistaken, actively participate in OLR and since exploits generally are permitted in internet gaming, they would be very keen on it's veracity.
    "The Trick" a known exploit in GT3 that Polyphony has neutralized, still available, but obviously rewired to NOT access the "godlike power" portion of GT4 code, so sorry. Remember we are talking about "The Real Driving Simulator". When an exploit becomes well known, it is no longer an exploit, it is a disaffirmation.
     
  24. DarkKni9hT

    DarkKni9hT

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    I'm sure that most of us would have been happy to help out with your record breaking question had we come across a new thread with said topic. Your post in this thread did not even touch on the topic at hand, which is the myth of the tranny trick vs. manually setting the final drive. That's why you got jumped on. Start a new thread asking your 1/4 mile question and I'm sure the responses will come. For now, I will briefly surmise that starting your car in second gear to avoid burnout should have absolutely no effect on subsequent gears. Gears are gears and don't know what you did earlier.
    If you have any ideas about the tranny trick/final drive issue, please chime in.
     
  25. DeLoreanBrown

    DeLoreanBrown

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    1,151
    Modifying the transmission to improve acceleration times is not cheating or a trick , but the fact is the ability to do so varies with each GT incarnation.
    GT one did indeed show you the power band but most vehicles there have five gears so it was necessary to get each gear in the powerband, 2 and 3 had a different setup to 4 when it came to implementing a 'trick' : you could alter the final then the auto then the final again , whereas in 4 when you go to alter the final from an auto in that final it carries the setup , adjusting each gear to the new final drive , this is certainly different from three .
    Most posters seem to push the final to it's weakest setting :banghead: ( fully to the right ) but this would give long spaced gearing no matter what the auto nad this is very wheezy for anything but perhaps jay's car and that's a moot.
    You really want the gear shifting to take faster advantage of a high revving power band especially for turbos etc where the peak is narrowed and pushed further up . To do this ( and this is occasionaly what i do as part of an overall power tune) you move the final from , lets say , 4.111 to 3.83 :idea: then you slowly increase the auto setting till the top gear is sticking through the end of the window at about 30 degrees and BECAUSE THIS IS GT(more confusing :confused: than ever)4
    you fiddle :rolleyes: with the first three gears to compensate for the fact that when you readjust that final back to 4.111 the elongation of the ratios when carriedwill make the top gears the speed zone and yet leave the lower three your out from slow cornering , overall such a leftfinal adjustment gives faster changing while making the gears long enough to max the speed.
    Don't forget that in a lower(lefter) final drive the actual ratios will be closer together for any given autoset and also that , contra GT3a , the ratios will be recalculated with any furthur adjusts of the final so fiddle in miniature and then expand to a comfortable axle ratio. thanks for enduring my :nervous: waffle but transmission is , along with diff & aids , the only way your going to beat me in online :bowdown: 5.
     
  26. DarkKni9hT

    DarkKni9hT

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    95
    Well said, simple layman's version and yet technically very accurate, however I think you missed the main point of the tranny trick. The adjusments made to achieve the trick are well known to be real world wrong. In GT3, by using the "trick" and making "improper" adjustments to the car, one was able to access foolish amounts of power and acceleration that no amount of fiddling in the gearbox could produce. It was a bug that allowed us to capitalize on poor programming. With GT4, the effects of the trick are far less pronounced, much to the dismay of those who used it to the exclusion of learning what tranny adjustment really entails. Hence this thread. We will squash the tranny trick and make real mechanics out of all. :dopey:
     
  27. NISMOgtrztune

    NISMOgtrztune

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    19
    I think my main problem is that I tend to think that some aspects of tuning are carried over in the Gran Turismo series. To some extent, this is true. Such as handling characteristics. But many, many, many of these settings change slightly from the previous game. I guess there is no "one" solution for, say, the same car; but on each seperate game. Why do they change the way you can tune? Is it because of the way we learn new information in the real world and how the people of GT incorporate in into the game? It bothers me as well as confuses me to think about the changes...
     
  28. DarkKni9hT

    DarkKni9hT

    Messages:
    95
    The GT physics engine is constantly being worked on, or improved, take your pick. When they find a flaw or a better way to simulate what it is that they feel is important enough, they will incorporate the change into the next generation of the game. This does lead to some confusion for the players but should hopefully enhance their experience in the long run. For example, I'm sure it got back to PD that there was this "tranny trick" that was allowing people to post retarded lap times and speeds with cars that had no right to travel that fast. So, along comes GT4 and they have apparently, depending on your sources, fixed that bug. Some say it still works, some say not. I have no idea because I never used it in the first place. I try to tune my cars as real world as I can. It's one of the reasons I love the GT series so much. Cheats and gamecodes are for sissies, IMO.
    So, in the end, yes, you will have to do some relearning to get it all right in GT4 over past editions, but it should have the end result of both giving you a better driving experience and teaching you more about what is involved in attaining peak performance from your cars.
     
  29. DarkKni9hT

    DarkKni9hT

    Messages:
    95
    I'm not sure if this is real or in my imagination, but there has always been what I believe to be a flaw in the gear tuning part of GT games. It may be a smaller version of the tranny trick, if I am right. It goes like this:
    Take any car in your garage (with full trans. of course) to the tune shop. Make an adjustment or two in the individual gears, or in the final gear. When you are finished, move to the autoset or sports/wide adjustment. Watch very carefully as you make the first click of adjustment (I think it works in both directions) in this setting. If I am not mistaken, the first little push you give the autoset after tuning the rest jumps outside of the regular progression chart associated with the autoset adjustment, giving an added performance boost. Move any further in the same direction and the chart relevels and moves normally.
    Has anyone else seen this or am I smoking exhaust residue?
     
  30. rk

    rk

    Messages:
    466
    I have seen it, but assumed it was the auto scrambling all my work; I will investigate further...
     
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