Transition from Gran Turismo to real life, things you need to be aware of. (Updated poll 7/27!)

  • Thread starter sk8er913
  • 184 comments
  • 12,040 views

Does this threads OP have insightful and useful information for beginners in real life motorsport?

  • Yes, it is helpful.

    Votes: 13 76.5%
  • It does, but it could be better. (please tell me how I can improve it)

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • No, it is not helpful.

    Votes: 2 11.8%

  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

Bo

Disturbing Member
Premium
12,123
United Kingdom
Liverpool
CARBOYXJR
Looks like the epic moaning and whining thread to me
Nobody is moaning or whining. I'm sure you'd love a thread where we praise GT non-stop, but that's never going to happen. Constructive criticism =/= mindless bashing.
even got the usual premium members with the same views..
Membership status means nothing. If people have certain thoughts (which many people echo), there is nothing that says they can't express that.
so i'd like the thread closing because its just gt bashing spam
Can you please quote the "bashing spam"? Again, valid negativity =/= bashing. Incessant negativity without any factual reasoning or basis, now that's bashing.
nothing constructive
How can you be constructive through positivity? Could you highlight some of the offending posts?
or new here
It doesn't have to be new, this is one thread to log all the physics troubles in GT6. Believe it or not, the physics engine isn't all rosy and perfect.

Ironically, in lobbying to get the thread locked and moaning about nonexistent bashing, you're the only person derailing the thread with unhelpful comments and falling foul of what you claim to be against.
 
11,936
Australia
Melbourne
Neomone/GTP_Imari
Looks like the epic moaning and whining thread to me, even got the usual premium members with the same views.. so i'd like the thread closing because its just gt bashing spam, nothing constructive or new here.

Down to ad hominems already, eh?

Why not just leave the thread and let people who are interested get on with it? Why does the presence of a few extra kilobytes on a server out in the arse end of nowhere somewhere bother you?
 

Stylel_Code

(Banned)
344
France
France
stylel-soheib
Tuning physics: to increase oversteer in game, the rear end has to be lower than the front end. In real life, it's the other way around ( and is even mentioned in the ride height discription).
Wow ars you sure? I have gone through intensive tuning in GT6 and lower front end always gives more grip through corners for more understeer. Maybe tuning drift car is another thing, i am talking about racing.
 
780
United States
Florida
CG3284
Wow ars you sure? I have gone through intensive tuning in GT6 and lower front end always gives more grip through corners for more understeer. Maybe tuning drift car is another thing, i am talking about racing.
Yes. Putting the slider on the front about half way or above and the rear near minimum will produce a greater degree of turn in and oversteer, especially if combined with a soft front and stiff rear. Some of us in the FITT tuning competitions found out about it a while back and will link to the posts about the error.
 

Stylel_Code

(Banned)
344
France
France
stylel-soheib
Yes. Putting the slider on the front about half way or above and the rear near minimum will produce a greater degree of turn in and oversteer, especially if combined with a soft front and stiff rear. Some of us in the FITT tuning competitions found out about it a while back and will link to the posts about the error.
Oh that seems strange. By the way I'm sorry I meant "oversteer" instead of "understeer" in my post, I often mess up with the two :D .
 

Johnnypenso

Well known double poster
Premium
28,466
Canada
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Johnnypenso
Yes. Putting the slider on the front about half way or above and the rear near minimum will produce a greater degree of turn in and oversteer, especially if combined with a soft front and stiff rear. Some of us in the FITT tuning competitions found out about it a while back and will link to the posts about the error.
That's been an issue since GT5 actually. Seasonal winning tunes often had the front at max height and the rear at minimum height as it also used to affect top speed as well as front grip.
 

Terronium-12

The Man Comes Around
Moderator
27,114
United States
Brooklyn, NY
KR_Viper
I Renown I
Looks like the epic moaning and whining thread to me, even got the usual premium members with the same views.. so i'd like the thread closing because its just gt bashing spam, nothing constructive or new here.

You'd like the thread closed? I missed the part where this was your thread, I also missed the part where you decided there was nothing constructive going on in this thread.

Ironically, the only person that's moaning about anything is you I'm afraid.
 
1,737
United States
Massachusetts
Ettick_
Here is my rant:

If you try to drive realistically, GT6 appears to have okay physics. But when you try to drive fast it's completely different. Tires take forever to lose grip and never lock up or understeer under braking, cars are unreasonably stable especially over curbs, and the way you tune them is completely different from games with more advanced (read: realistic) physics engines.

If I tried any of my good GT6 tunes in a PC sim like GSCE the car would be completely undriveable and/or slow. The main thing is the aero. The last GT6 race I did was the WRS Special XI, where I qualified pole with a car that had its front wing set 50 higher than the rear, which was set to the minimum. And that was using no assists other than ABS set to 1.

Another thing is understeer while braking. In iRacing I've noticed that it's often faster to use less brake input even in heavy braking zones with certain cars because it causes too much understeer into the corner. In GT6 that is never the case. It's only when I've gotten close to the apex that I'd ease off of the brake, but that is only to rotate the car, not to reduce understeer.

Also the game seems to not have correctly implemented anything to do with temperature. I've noticed that my tires will never gain noticeable heat and my times will only go down when they start to wear. Brake temperature is likely not implemented at all, and I'd assume the same with oil/engine temperature. Especially in race cars, all of these can matter a lot. For instance, it's very easy to overheat and blow the engine on an F1 car (older ones at least) if you're at low speeds on a pace lap and don't keep the revs low in a high gear. They were designed to be run at speed with the airflow that comes with it. Brake temps being too low can mean low braking power, and them being too high can mean the same along with the threat of the brake blowing.

Tire heat in GT6 is practically nonexistent. Sure, tires can lose heat and gain it, but they will always maintain the same heat level when they get up to temp. And they don't seem to lose grip even when their temps are either too low or too high. At least it's not noticeable. Whereas in more realistic games it's very noticeable when you've overheated a tire or when your tires are cold, there is much less grip.
 
4,466
Bulgaria
Bulgaria
The suspension settings in GT are almost useless.
Making the front end softer and the rear end stiffer with spring rate or sway bars,and what happens?
Severe rear tires lock up during braking and corner entry,same old understeer in mid corner and no lift off oversteer,and severe wheel spin at the corner exit.

Now example with very old PC simulator called Live For Speed
Car XR GT
Car ballance 52:48(front-rear)
With the stock settings I get into the corner lift off the throttle and there is no oversteer car goes wide
almost in the grass.
Now I set front camber to 3.5 degrees(stock camber is 0.0 front and rear) and increase the rear sway bar from 12 to 22(the front sway bar is also 22)
I get into the corner again lift off the throttle and the car oversteer,I have to counter steer to avoid spin.
 
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4,093
United States
California
Sk8er913
If I may, I would love for members of this site who are real-life drifters to conduct a test with GT6's physics, see what is wrong and what is right when it comes to drifting. However, this has to be a two-part test, because from all the adjustments PD made to the game through updates, the physics of the game upon release are clearly different from the physics' current state. I would like them to test the physics back then and the physucks (yes, physucks) now.

Back then, grip was everywhere and very predictable. I was using C:H tires, the tires with the lowest grip in the game and yet I could feel them fighting for grip and making the car straight straight again. What's also amazing is that loss of grip and regaining of grip were both very progressive; even with a rough tune the cars would still feel amazing to drive.

But now, ugh. Just... Ugh. Everything feels so much different now. Whenever you attempt to drift a car, it feels so frantic and slippery. You throw the car into a slide and you have absolutely no idea where it's gonna head off to, or when you're going to stop sliding. And maintaining a slide is incredibly difficult; it's almost impossible unless you're going quite slow and hitting the exact amount of throttle input and countersteer. There's just literally no room for error. It's not as intuitive as it used to be.
The physics for drifting in my real life car are the same in game. As well as oversteer for Go Karts... the counter steering/oversteer in this game is amazingly accurate as far as I can tell an applaud it.

BMW 330i CM wheels, stock everything, limit the horsepower to 233, 1 inch up wheels, paint everything silver and you have what I think is a nearly perfect replica of my 328i.


The tire model. Camber doesn't work correctly, tire pressures are not modeled, they don't absorb and shed heat like a real tire, carcass deformation modeling doesn't seem to be there etc. They also don't simulate grip characteristics of the various eras of tires. A 1971 Ferrari has no business keeping up with modern sports cars on the track with similar specs, in large part due to the tires it would have come with. When it comes to physics in pc sim racing the tire model is the number one topic of choice and IMO, GT's biggest weakness and has a tendency to make all cars of similar specs feel very much alike. Take a look at how complex the tire simulation is in this example for reference.

Technically, if you save a spin by lifting the throttle that's the opposite of lift-off oversteer. It would be lift-off understeer actually. If it's modeled correctly and you lift while in a state of oversteer, you should have more oversteer or spin, depending on how severe it is.

@sk8er913 you might want to clarify in the OP whether you mean "severe, moderate" etc. in relation to real physics or in relation to how much of an effect it has on gameplay. I realize the top speed issues that @YZF mentions don't affect gameplay on many tracks to a great degree as you indicated but a top speed difference of 10% or performance on track off by several hundred hp is pretty severe IMO, relative to real world physics.

Most helpful post I have seen so far. :) 👍

Added elements of it to the OP.
 
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1,077
Norway
Norway
One strange thing I have noticed about the physics in GT6 is that some cars seem to have been covered with a paint-repelling surface. I try to put some color on them but the cars just stay the same color as they were before. Very strange if you ask me, and not very realistic.
 
1,591
United States
Under the Hood
I recently competed in my first Motorsport event (autocross) driving the car listed in my sig. I have had zero racing experience in real life prior to that event. Yet I ended up placing 2nd in the novice class even though most of the cars had on R-comps and I was still on street tires. I had an instructor ride along with me first couple of runs and he couldn't believe that this was my first event, he especially complemented my lines through the course.

I have played many sim racing games, most notably the GT series since GT2 and Assetto Corsa since a couple months ago. GT is a great training tool for finding the best driving line throughout a course. But as far as car physics go it is nowhere near realistic. Even on the smoothest road there are always little bumps and imperfections that affect the car's dynamics. Assetto Corsa does an excellent job of replicating this but in GT6 it is nonexistant, feels like you're driving on a perfectly smooth cloud. This along with the rudimentary tire model, tuning model that uses physics from another dimension and the lack of brake fade makes GT6 pretty laughable when compared to hardcore sims like Assetto Corsa. BUT for me at least, the leap that had to be made to go from virtual to reality was very small and natural.

Once I found the best line around the autocross course I could easily start shaving off time. On a course where .5s is considered a huge improvement I was taking off in excess of 2 seconds a lap and by the end I was running within a second of 10-year veterans with built cars, so I would give GT the credit it deserves when taking virtual racers and turning them into real racers. Remember, GT is called a real driving simulator, not the real car simulator ;)
 
4,093
United States
California
Sk8er913
One strange thing I have noticed about the physics in GT6 is that some cars seem to have been covered with a paint-repelling surface. I try to put some color on them but the cars just stay the same color as they were before. Very strange if you ask me, and not very realistic.
That's not what we are talking about here.

I see a lot of comments about Lift off oversteer, but there are a lot of general discussion about it so theres nothing I can really add to the OP, also there are a lot of comments about how tuning is wrong. But how important is that to driving physics? Suspension tuning in game doesn't seem to have much effect on the car. And I am not very good at tuning so I don't know all that much.


I recently competed in my first Motorsport event (autocross) driving the car listed in my sig. I have had zero racing experience in real life prior to that event. Yet I ended up placing 2nd in the novice class even though most of the cars had on R-comps and I was still on street tires. I had an instructor ride along with me first couple of runs and he couldn't believe that this was my first event, he especially complemented my lines through the course.

I have played many sim racing games, most notably the GT series since GT2 and Assetto Corsa since a couple months ago. GT is a great training tool for finding the best driving line throughout a course. But as far as car physics go it is nowhere near realistic. Even on the smoothest road there are always little bumps and imperfections that affect the car's dynamics. Assetto Corsa does an excellent job of replicating this but in GT6 it is nonexistant, feels like you're driving on a perfectly smooth cloud. This along with the rudimentary tire model, tuning model that uses physics from another dimension and the lack of brake fade makes GT6 pretty laughable when compared to hardcore sims like Assetto Corsa. BUT for me at least, the leap that had to be made to go from virtual to reality was very small and natural.

Once I found the best line around the autocross course I could easily start shaving off time. On a course where .5s is considered a huge improvement I was taking off in excess of 2 seconds a lap and by the end I was running within a second of 10-year veterans with built cars, so I would give GT the credit it deserves when taking virtual racers and turning them into real racers. Remember, GT is called a real driving simulator, not the real car simulator ;)

Awesome, sounds exactly what I did last month. :P 10th fastest person on the track that week, and I never even raced before. :lol: I have to add though, and I have stated it in an earlier post, that GT does an excellent job with modelling oversteer. My 328i and the kart I raced both feel identical to my G27 when countersteering.
 
Compared to real life, Gt6's physics feel, dull and blunt - like they are made out of cardboard! As an amateur real life racer, I find it very difficult to describe that flatness in the tyre physics and how shallow it is compared to real life or even to what other sims have achieved! I want to be able to feel the tyre stretching in the rim, trying to come out at corners! Gt6 doesn't simulate that, or how the tyre moves bending its own sidewall and how all that affects the car itself..
And to those who think this is another whine thread: we love this game, and we want to make it even better - turning a blind eye to gt's shortcomings will not do that!
 
4,093
United States
California
Sk8er913
Compared to real life, Gt6's physics feel, dull and blunt - like they are made out of cardboard! As an amateur real life racer, I find it very difficult to describe that flatness in the tyre physics and how shallow it is compared to real life or even to what other sims have achieved! I want to be able to feel the tyre stretching in the rim, trying to come out at corners! Gt6 doesn't simulate that, or how the tyre moves bending its own sidewall and how all that affects the car itself..
And to those who think this is another whine thread: we love this game, and we want to make it even better - turning a blind eye to gt's shortcomings will not do that!
I often defend GT when people say things like "Ha, that's just a video game." I always tell them "GT isn't just a 'video game' it produces professional race car drivers."
 
2,810
Australia
Tasmania, AU
stigsdaddy
As GT6 has my car in it, I compared it to mine, back when I had my ps3 and a wheel, to see how it behaved compared to my real car.

It handled completely different. I think PD just need to start from scratch with physics for their next game, rather than try to see what GT6 does wrong. It's ok for a racing game, but considering it's marketed as a simulator, that puts it up against far more realistic games.

In the game, my car handled like a fwd all the time. The tyres behave like they're made out of solid rubber, with no movement whatsoever. Grip is an on/off switch, you either have it or you don't, there's no transition at all, which I guess is due to the lack of tyre flex or pressure modelling. Tyres behave the same, whether cold or warmed up, and when overheated will return to normal instantly after the load is removed from them.

The suspension seems ok, but tuning is completely wrong for it. Spring rates and damper tuning makes little difference to the car's handling, and the geometry tuning is so wrong it's almost pointless to even have it in the game. Leaving it all stock, to compare to my real car, it behaves ok as a game, but not at all like my real car.

The transmission tuning seems fine, however the aero model is way off, making cars significantly faster than irl, and once you bring adjustable wings into it, I've found max front wing and minimum rear is the best on everything, which obviously is no good.

My car is awd, with a similar system to an Evo Lancer or Wrx Impreza. The awd cars in GT6 are all very wrong. All seem to have a fixed torque split, which, when standard, is wrong on every car I've checked. My car has a torsen LSD in the rear, open front diff, and Viscous centre diff. In game it behaves like a fwd, so I can't tell if they put a rear lsd in as standard, but the centre diff is locked to a fixed torque split.
My car, when pushed hard into a corner, will understeer initially, and due to the tendency of viscous diffs to be slow to lock, there's a noticable pause before the rear end comes into play, at which point the car rotates very well. This forces a very specific driving style to drive the car fast. You need to enter the corner close to the limit, but not too hard, then punch it before apex to force the torque to the rear, which will kill the understeer and the car rotates and goes through the corner with a nice neutral balance. In GT6, it understeers into the corner, and the only way to stop the understeer is to lift off the throttle and stay off it until you're going very slowly. Using any throttle at all will increase the understeer. The more throttle, the more the car understeers. No action from the centre diff. Car just behaves like a fwd.

I've also notied, when you put a customisable centre diff in the car, you can change the torque split from 50/50 front/rear, to 0/100 front/rear. This is impossible irl, due to the configuration of the car's drivetrain. If you could adjust the centre diff in my car, you'd have between 100/0 front/rear, and 50/50 front/rear. In game it works like a GTR. Drive goes to the rear, unless you adjust the diff to send some to the front. My car doesn't work like that, it's the opposite.

I've also noticed electronically controlled centre diffs, like the Attessa E-TS in the GTRs, don't work properly. It always acts as a fixed torque split, and not a variable one.

I honestly think it would be quicker and easier to list the things that do work instead of those that don't. Just my 2c. I'd like to see them build a new engine from scratch for GT7, as the ps3 one is just too flawed imo. They've got a lot of work to do to hope to compete with the realism their competitors are achieving.
 
4,093
United States
California
Sk8er913
As GT6 has my car in it, I compared it to mine, back when I had my ps3 and a wheel, to see how it behaved compared to my real car.

It handled completely different. I think PD just need to start from scratch with physics for their next game, rather than try to see what GT6 does wrong. It's ok for a racing game, but considering it's marketed as a simulator, that puts it up against far more realistic games.

In the game, my car handled like a fwd all the time. The tyres behave like they're made out of solid rubber, with no movement whatsoever. Grip is an on/off switch, you either have it or you don't, there's no transition at all, which I guess is due to the lack of tyre flex or pressure modelling. Tyres behave the same, whether cold or warmed up, and when overheated will return to normal instantly after the load is removed from them.

The suspension seems ok, but tuning is completely wrong for it. Spring rates and damper tuning makes little difference to the car's handling, and the geometry tuning is so wrong it's almost pointless to even have it in the game. Leaving it all stock, to compare to my real car, it behaves ok as a game, but not at all like my real car.

The transmission tuning seems fine, however the aero model is way off, making cars significantly faster than irl, and once you bring adjustable wings into it, I've found max front wing and minimum rear is the best on everything, which obviously is no good.

My car is awd, with a similar system to an Evo Lancer or Wrx Impreza. The awd cars in GT6 are all very wrong. All seem to have a fixed torque split, which, when standard, is wrong on every car I've checked. My car has a torsen LSD in the rear, open front diff, and Viscous centre diff. In game it behaves like a fwd, so I can't tell if they put a rear lsd in as standard, but the centre diff is locked to a fixed torque split.
My car, when pushed hard into a corner, will understeer initially, and due to the tendency of viscous diffs to be slow to lock, there's a noticable pause before the rear end comes into play, at which point the car rotates very well. This forces a very specific driving style to drive the car fast. You need to enter the corner close to the limit, but not too hard, then punch it before apex to force the torque to the rear, which will kill the understeer and the car rotates and goes through the corner with a nice neutral balance. In GT6, it understeers into the corner, and the only way to stop the understeer is to lift off the throttle and stay off it until you're going very slowly. Using any throttle at all will increase the understeer. The more throttle, the more the car understeers. No action from the centre diff. Car just behaves like a fwd.

I've also notied, when you put a customisable centre diff in the car, you can change the torque split from 50/50 front/rear, to 0/100 front/rear. This is impossible irl, due to the configuration of the car's drivetrain. If you could adjust the centre diff in my car, you'd have between 100/0 front/rear, and 50/50 front/rear. In game it works like a GTR. Drive goes to the rear, unless you adjust the diff to send some to the front. My car doesn't work like that, it's the opposite.

I've also noticed electronically controlled centre diffs, like the Attessa E-TS in the GTRs, don't work properly. It always acts as a fixed torque split, and not a variable one.

I honestly think it would be quicker and easier to list the things that do work instead of those that don't. Just my 2c. I'd like to see them build a new engine from scratch for GT7, as the ps3 one is just too flawed imo. They've got a lot of work to do to hope to compete with the realism their competitors are achieving.
What car is it? Is it standard or premium?

"Tyres behave the same, whether cold or warmed up, and when overheated will return to normal instantly after the load is removed from them."

How does this affect the car in real life/in game. I dont have enough experience to comment on it.




OP Updated: "Please use the format that I am using so that it is easier for me to make it fit into this post."
 
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2,810
Australia
Tasmania, AU
stigsdaddy
What car is it? Is it standard or premium?

"Tyres behave the same, whether cold or warmed up, and when overheated will return to normal instantly after the load is removed from them."

How does this affect the car in real life/in game. I dont have enough experience to comment on it.




OP Updated: "Please use the format that I am using so that it is easier for me to make it fit into this post."

My car's a group a celica gt4 (my profile picture is of my car). The one in GT6 is a standard, it's the Japanese model, called GT-FOUR RC (ST185).

When you overheat real tyres, the grip characteristics change, and it takes a while for them to cool down. If you overheat them badly enough, it usually changes the grip characteristics of the tyre permanently. I ruined a brand new set of tyres on a car I used to have, driving it too hard on a rural road, which is used as a tarmac rally stage where I live. The tread depth was still really good, but the front tyres just never had the grip they did when I bought them. The car was all understeer after that, no front end bite. I've read that most racing slicks suffer worse than road tyres from grip loss when they're overheated. In F1 it's particularly bad, due to the fragile nature of the tyres they use. You'll hear lots of reference to "thermal degradation" in F1 forums.

In GT6, overloading a tyre overheats it while the load is on it, but as soon as the load is removed, the tyres go back to normal temperatures right away. There's no thermal degradation, the tyre grip is fine after overheating it, and the temps go back to normal immediately.

Project cars models tyre behavior really well. If you corner too hard, or your set up isn't optimal, or a combination of the two, your tyre temps will rise above ideal, and you'll experience less grip. Overheat them too badly, and the grip won't return when you give them a chance to cool. I learned pretty quickly to race at 8/10ths in some cars, because I had a tendency to just push lap after lap, and in some cars, no matter how good the set up is, the tyres just won't put up with that treatment. I'd be feeling like my tyres were shot, and was wondering why the degradation was so high. When I read how deep their tyre model goes, I started treating it like real tyres, and that's when I realised I had been suffering from thermal deg, and not actually wearing out my tyres. Simply lapping half a second to a second slower, by being less violent on the tyres, led to my tyres lasting for ages, and having much higher grip. Usually this meant much better lap times in the second half of races, due to keeping the tyres in an optimal temp range.

Edit: Sorry about the massive posts, it's just hard to explain these things, and I could write a novel about this kind of stuff lol. That's why I said it'd be easier to do up a list of what works.
 
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1,513
United Kingdom
UK
YT__TJCGAMING
7/12/15 I just got home from real life racing. And it was my second time in a kart. I used my knowledge from my G27 to make rapid and huge leaps in my lap times the first time I was in the kart. However tonight when I applied my GT knowledge to the racetrack. I got an unpleasant surprise in the form of several bruises from the violent shaking vehicle. So I decided to create a thread detailing holes in GT6 physics to help amateurs drivers as well as Polyphony Digital.

Possible Causes: Camber doesn't work correctly, tire pressures are not modeled, they don't absorb and shed heat like a real tire, carcass deformation modeling doesn't seem to be there etc.

Help PD with what exactly ? Change the physics to how you or others want them to be ? Because you drove a go kart twice and it wasn't the same as an old gen racing game ? You think PD give a monkeys what you think about the physics engine ? You didn't know the camber has been broken since a patch update ages ago ? You didn't know tyre pressures aren't simulated in any way in GT6 ? And you didn't know GT6 doesn't , and never has had a tyre deformation model ?

Did you buy GT6 yesterday ?

^^ All old news .
 
4,093
United States
California
Sk8er913
My car's a group a celica gt4 (my profile picture is of my car). The one in GT6 is a standard, it's the Japanese model, called GT-FOUR RC (ST185).

When you overheat real tyres, the grip characteristics change, and it takes a while for them to cool down. If you overheat them badly enough, it usually changes the grip characteristics of the tyre permanently. I ruined a brand new set of tyres on a car I used to have, driving it too hard on a rural road, which is used as a tarmac rally stage where I live. The tread depth was still really good, but the front tyres just never had the grip they did when I bought them. The car was all understeer after that, no front end bite. I've read that most racing slicks suffer worse than road tyres from grip loss when they're overheated. In F1 it's particularly bad, due to the fragile nature of the tyres they use. You'll hear lots of reference to "thermal degradation" in F1 forums.

In GT6, overloading a tyre overheats it while the load is on it, but as soon as the load is removed, the tyres go back to normal temperatures right away. There's no thermal degradation, the tyre grip is fine after overheating it, and the temps go back to normal immediately.

Project cars models tyre behavior really well. If you corner too hard, or your set up isn't optimal, or a combination of the two, your tyre temps will rise above ideal, and you'll experience less grip. Overheat them too badly, and the grip won't return when you give them a chance to cool. I learned pretty quickly to race at 8/10ths in some cars, because I had a tendency to just push lap after lap, and in some cars, no matter how good the set up is, the tyres just won't put up with that treatment. I'd be feeling like my tyres were shot, and was wondering why the degradation was so high. When I read how deep their tyre model goes, I started treating it like real tyres, and that's when I realised I had been suffering from thermal deg, and not actually wearing out my tyres. Simply lapping half a second to a second slower, by being less violent on the tyres, led to my tyres lasting for ages, and having much higher grip. Usually this meant much better lap times in the second half of races, due to keeping the tyres in an optimal temp range.

Edit: Sorry about the massive posts, it's just hard to explain these things, and I could write a novel about this kind of stuff lol. That's why I said it'd be easier to do up a list of what works.
A list of things that works might be easier, but a list of what doesn't work is a lot more useful to drivers using GT to train for the real world. :lol:

So would you say that GTs tire model is accurate for when they are heated "red." Is the loss of grip simulated correctly, or is it too weak? Just like the extra steering is?


Help PD with what exactly ? Change the physics to how you or others want them to be ? Because you drove a go kart twice and it wasn't the same as an old gen racing game ? You think PD give a monkeys what you think about the physics engine ? You didn't know the camber has been broken since a patch update ages ago ? You didn't know tyre pressures aren't simulated in any way in GT6 ? And you didn't know GT6 doesn't , and never has had a tyre deformation model ?

Did you buy GT6 yesterday ?

^^ All old news .

You only have to make a mistake once to know that its a mistake. I've done 130 laps in a kart, about 27 seconds each... I'm only 3 tenths slower than the best drivers that do it and win every week. That's 99% pace by the way, which I would say isn't too bad for only having about 90 minutes of total track time. And I am practically a professional at GT, you know about 150th fastest in the world so. I'm not a total noob to GT, I know what works and what doesn't. If I was a bad driver, I wouldn't be so high on the ranking in GTAcademy. And also, It's not just me. Check out these two pages, theres a lot of people giving feedback. And when people work in teams and pool information together, they can usually come up with really good analysis.

How about you come up with something useful to add to the conversation, instead of flaming the OP.
 
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1,513
United Kingdom
UK
YT__TJCGAMING
A list of things that works might be easier, but a list of what doesn't work is a lot more useful to drivers using GT to train for the real world. :lol:

So would you say that GTs tire model is accurate for when they are heated "red." Is the loss of grip simulated correctly, or is it too weak? Just like the extra steering is?




You only have to make a mistake once to know that its a mistake. I've done 130 laps in a kart, about 27 seconds each... I'm only 3 tenths slower than the best drivers that do it and win every week. That's 99% pace by the way, which I would say isn't too bad for only having about 90 minutes of total track time. And I am practically a professional at GT, you know about 150th fastest in the world so. I'm not a total noob to GT, I know what works and what doesn't. If I was a bad driver, I wouldn't be so high on the ranking in GTAcademy. And also, It's not just me. Check out these two pages, theres a lot of people giving feedback. And when people work in teams and pool information together, they can usually come up with really good analysis.

Your speed in a go kart is irrelevant . That's not what i'm asking you here . You mentioned possible causes in the GT6 physics that any player of GT knows are facts . You also mentioned helping PD like they will pay attention and somehow model the game engine for 7 onwards from the input of your thread . Are you unaware of the Kaz Q and A threads ? You will have zero bearing on the outcome , whatever good information you find .

A professional at something is a person who is paid to partake in a hobby / sport etc . Also not what I was asking . I did well in GTA also , beating mods from GTP with a DS3 when they were on 900 degree wheels , finished within top 150 locally, 9th fastest DS3 user ... But that's irrelevant again to your OP . Not sure what that has to do with GT physics engines ?

Sure feedback in the community is always good . But point being we all know GTs physics aren't fully true to real life . And Kaz and co will base their physics model how they see fit . Regardless of community feedback which they blatantly will disregard / not even consider .
 
2,810
Australia
Tasmania, AU
stigsdaddy
A list of things that works might be easier, but a list of what doesn't work is a lot more useful to drivers using GT to train for the real world. :lol:

So would you say that GTs tire model is accurate for when they are heated "red." Is the loss of grip simulated correctly, or is it too weak? Just like the extra steering is?

No I wouldn't say it remotely close to accurate. The grip seems like an on/off switch. You come into a corner, turn in, and there'll be a point where the tyres completely lose grip. Once it loses grip, if you keep letting the car understeer, the tyres will go red. As soon as you regain the grip, the tyre temp goes back to normal. Like I said before, I think the problem with the grip loss is there's no tyre flex or pressure simulation going on. The tyres don't conform to the surface.

I would be surprised if they didn't ditch the tyre model and make a new one for gt7, because it's an obvious shorcoming of the game.
 
1,513
United Kingdom
UK
YT__TJCGAMING
A list of things that works might be easier, but a list of what doesn't work is a lot more useful to drivers using GT to train for the real world. :lol:

So would you say that GTs tire model is accurate for when they are heated "red." Is the loss of grip simulated correctly, or is it too weak? Just like the extra steering is?




You only have to make a mistake once to know that its a mistake. I've done 130 laps in a kart, about 27 seconds each... I'm only 3 tenths slower than the best drivers that do it and win every week. That's 99% pace by the way, which I would say isn't too bad for only having about 90 minutes of total track time. And I am practically a professional at GT, you know about 150th fastest in the world so. I'm not a total noob to GT, I know what works and what doesn't. If I was a bad driver, I wouldn't be so high on the ranking in GTAcademy. And also, It's not just me. Check out these two pages, theres a lot of people giving feedback. And when people work in teams and pool information together, they can usually come up with really good analysis.

How about you come up with something useful to add to the conversation, instead of flaming the OP.

I did , you're too busy editing your post and not answering my valid questions ....
 

Johnnypenso

Well known double poster
Premium
28,466
Canada
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Johnnypenso
Sure feedback in the community is always good . But point being we all know GTs physics aren't fully true to real life . And Kaz and co will base their physics model how they see fit . Regardless of community feedback which they blatantly will disregard / not even consider .
If you really believe this, why are you in this thread? Just to tell everyone else they are wrong? Even if this is just an intellectual exercise and all for naught, so what?
 
4,093
United States
California
Sk8er913
You mentioned possible causes in the GT6 physics that any player of GT knows are facts . You also mentioned helping PD like they will pay attention and somehow model the game engine for 7 onwards from the input of your thread .

Sure feedback in the community is always good . But point being we all know GTs physics aren't fully true to real life . And Kaz and co will base their physics model how they see fit . Regardless of community feedback which they blatantly will disregard / not even consider .
I didn't mention possible causes, @Johnnypenso did in page one, and I added them to the OP because it was useful information.

If PD sees this and looks at the issue posted here to improve the physics engine, then great, but that's secondary goal. The primary goal of this thread is to help players switch from gaming to reality. If they have a catalog of things to watch out for, they may find it useful and adapt to racing conditions even more quickly than they already do.




@Mike_grpA How much can hot tires impact cornering speed? I would like to add this to the OP, but I don't know much about this... Is the short term caused by excess tire pressure? Because I can understand that variable very well.
 
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1,513
United Kingdom
UK
YT__TJCGAMING
If you really believe this, why are you in this thread? Just to tell everyone else they are wrong? Even if this is just an intellectual exercise and all for naught, so what?

This is gt planet , I can partake and ask valid questions in any thread I choose . Or are you looking for one of your " Let it go " special moments or something ;)

That's what racing schools and professional trackdays are for @sk8er913 . You can't teach a person reaction times or skill over a thread in my view .

But you can allegedly create a GT bashing thread with the usual suspects . As has already been aforementioned .

Wouldn't a thread title of " GT physics versus real world " be better than " Everything wrong with " ?

You're top 150 in the world , and only 3 tenths slower than your local kart drivers remember ? GT must do things right with it's physics also . Otherwise you wouldn't play it correct ?

The weight shift in 6 was an improvement . Wouldn't you agree ?
 
4,093
United States
California
Sk8er913
This is gt planet , I can partake and ask valid questions in any thread I choose . Or are you looking for one of your " Let it go " special moments or something ;)

That's what racing schools and professional trackdays are for @sk8er913 . You can't teach a person reaction times or skill over a thread in my view .

But you can allegedly create a GT bashing thread with the usual suspects . As has already been aforementioned .

Wouldn't a thread title of " GT physics versus real world " be better than " Everything wrong with " ?

You're top 150 in the world , and only 3 tenths slower than your local kart drivers remember ? GT must do things right with it's physics also . Otherwise you wouldn't play it correct ?

The weight shift in 6 was an improvement . Wouldn't you agree ?
There's more to be learned from a list of things that you are not exposed to in the game, than a list of what the game does correctly. As soon as you get into a real car or kart, it only takes a few minutes to discover things that translate well. But it could take hours to discover things that work in GT that don't work well in real life. And you're right, a title change might be a good thing.