Turbo tuning options...

[JM1681]

Two things, Boost Controllers, and Anti-Lag tuning options. I really hope Polyphony gives us these features in GT5.

Anyone who has owned and modified a turbo car knows that you can buy a manual (or electronic) boost controller for $50 (the latter for about $150) and add a good amount of power to any turbocharged car really quick. The turbo will also spool up faster with a manual/electronic controller combatting turbo-lag (A good thing for bigger turbo upgrades). You could equip the controller and select how much boost you want it to run (which would have to be displayed accurately on the on-screen boost gauge )

On the subject of turbo-lag, since it was more pronounced in GT4, I think it's only right that they give us some lag combat options like Anti-Lag. WRC and JGTC cars live on this crap. And if they do give it to us, it shouldn't be one of those things that only some turbo cars can have. If it has a turbo, it can run Anti-Lag. It could be an option you turn on or off when using Performance ECU chip.

Then it could be adjustable as well in terms of how much boost it holds (this is another thing that would be fun to watch in terms of the on-screen boost gauge as it would bounce around like crazy )

For both, Polyphony would also have to work on sound effects since a boost controller makes spool up a little louder, and ALS systems are loud as hell during shifts

 

[Emohawk]

There'd have to be a turbo refresh option as well then. How long does it take for an anti-lag system to fry a turbo anyway? Or do they not do that anymore?
Good idea. I'd like to eventually see engines become as tunable as suspention.

 

[JM1681]

Good point. Maybe something like whenever you have ALS on, you get another bar style meter. Basically a life meter for your turbo that doesn't refill between races, but constantly decreases whenever you use ALS. Decreasing faster when you hold more boost, and slower when you hold 0psi.

Generally, a very basic and soft ALS system (Meaning you maintain 0psi at idle with the throttle closed) will wear a turbo only slightly sooner than if you had never used ALS. Most factory turbo cars spend so much time on boost that you're really not doing much different. If you let it idle down before shutting it down, I think it could go for a damn long time.

Throw some boost at the thing, and run greater than factory boost as well, now thats a recipe for disaster. First of all, the exhaust manifold will most likely explode within the first couple 100 miles. If the exhaust manifold is replaced with a race unit, the turbo is probably not gonna live happily past about 10,000 miles.

I very much agree with you about engines eventually becoming as tunable as suspension. It's VERY sad that NFSU2 has tunable turbos and ECUs and the GT hasn't had that since GT1. Even then you could only up the boost a little.

 

[G25RJ]

The excessive use of the boost should increase engine heating and decrease the engine life time. Another good stuff to add is to by a new engine for the car.

 

[JM1681]

Engine wear and Engine swaps have been a long time coming. It would suck sometimes, but the realism factor would be greatly enhanced with engine wear.

Then think of swapping an ITR engine into a CRX hatchback, an MR2 Turbo engine in an AE86, a ZO6 engine into an old school 'Vette, a Viper V10 into an old-school charger, you get the idea...

Interplatform (2JZ Supra motor in say an RX-7 ) motor swaps would be even cooler.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

I knew a guy with a WRC-spec Celica Alltrac (ST185), which he street drove, and which had an ALS. He couldn't use the ALS with his ceramic turbo, as it'd shatter the compressor blades.

 

[JM1681]

As long as the ALS system wasn't to aggressive it shouldn't have mattered.

 

[Nathan1956]

what about upgrading cooling (radiator, water pump, and antifreeze and oil and gas coolers) or water and alcohol injection for the high boost runing turbos and what about water cooled intercoolers like Jay Leno's Toronado

 

[JM1681]

This is something that would fall into that category of engine wear Very good stuff though.

Water-Air intercoolers are an interesting idea, but the difference in performance from an Air-Air vs. a Water-Air intercooler (When both are operating efficiently), is very minimal.

 

[umfogotmyname21]

I love the idea of engine swaps. I been waiting for it for years to be done into the GT series, unfortunately it hasn't yet. Hopefully GT5 will have it. It would really add to the realism factor of the game. Who really wants to take the stock d series motor of the CRX and keep it that way. I mean you can now put a RSX Type-R motor in one of those in real life now that they have came out with the engine mount kit for it. Being able to do engine swaps in this game would be great and would really effect the peformances of the cars. Maybe that's why they haven't done it yet. Because to be able to integrate that into the game I'm sure they would have to go test cars with those swaps that way they could get the difference in handling correct. I mean adding a heavier engine than the stock one into a car is going to really mess with the handling and everything of the car. Either way though I still hope they are going to integrate this into GT5. As for the turbo area I would love to be able to put a boost controller on the car. I think they should also make the intercoolers visible. On GT4 I would love to be able to see a front mount intercooler sitting on my black Civic Type-R. It would make the car look so much more beautiful than it already is. I would also like to be able to switch/hear the blow-off valves more depending on the view you are racing in. I mean you think with a stage 4 turbo upgrade on a car when racing on the front view of the car you would clearly hear the car blow-off along with being able to hear the turbo spool alot easier. I have been around many turbo cars in my life and it doesn't sound anything the same in GT when the car hits boost ans it does in real life. Well I guess I'll stop this before I just keep going on and on. That's just some of my thoughts.

 

[JM1681]

Well put dude

Like you said visible FMICs would be hot, as would a freakin' different exhaust tip for different exhaust systems

 

[German Muscle]

Two things, Boost Controllers, and Anti-Lag tuning options. I really hope Polyphony gives us these features in GT5.

Anyone who has owned and modified a turbo car knows that you can buy a manual (or electronic) boost controller for $50 (the latter for about $150) and add a good amount of power to any turbocharged car really quick. The turbo will also spool up faster with a manual/electronic controller combatting turbo-lag (A good thing for bigger turbo upgrades). You could equip the controller and select how much boost you want it to run (which would have to be displayed accurately on the on-screen boost gauge )

On the subject of turbo-lag, since it was more pronounced in GT4, I think it's only right that they give us some lag combat options like Anti-Lag. WRC and JGTC cars live on this crap. And if they do give it to us, it shouldn't be one of those things that only some turbo cars can have. If it has a turbo, it can run Anti-Lag. It could be an option you turn on or off when using Performance ECU chip.

Then it could be adjustable as well in terms of how much boost it holds (this is another thing that would be fun to watch in terms of the on-screen boost gauge as it would bounce around like crazy )

For both, Polyphony would also have to work on sound effects since a boost controller makes spool up a little louder, and ALS systems are loud as hell during shifts

First off i want explain something cause it seems you all dont quite know exactly what it does.
Antilag: Anti lag is a system where the computer injects fuel and retards ignition timing during decel. When this happens the engine burns the fuel your injecting and makes your EGTs go up and makes the turbo stay spooled.

Having a Manual Boost Controller and Electronic Boost Controllers is a really good idea. Its the cheapest mod with the most power increase not counting Nitrous. But Boost Controllers do not help your turbo spool up faster. Some EBCs will make any turbo lazier if not set up correctly. Im all for a actual boost guage. The one in GT4 is crap, all it tells me is whether im in Vacuum or Boost. Matter of fact, i think there needs to be 3 accesory guages in GT5, Accurate Boost, EGT, and Wideband Air Fuel Ratio. I personally would prefer a peak/hold/warning system like the GReddy line of guages. I also think that each guage should be customizable for readout. For boost the options should be PSI, KPA, and Bar. EGT should be °F or °C, and wideband isnt changable.

Turbo lag.... I think Polyphony did a poor job with Turbos and Turbo lag. honestly GT2 was the most accurate in this area. If you give the car 100% throttle at 2000RPM no matter what turbo you have the boost guage hits max boost, in GT2 when you did this the boost guage would hit 0 and when the turbo spooled up the boost would increase. They did do an ok job with the power band as far as log goes but its not really realistic. Actually if you think about it, every car in GT4 has Antilag even all motor. When cars shoot flames out the exhaust when you downshift or decel. Im not positive but i think Anti Lag causes Compressor surge. Compressor Surge sounds awesome but it isnt good on turbos at all.

Im not saying they shouldnt have Antilag tho. I actually think they need to have Stand Alone Engine management systems in GT5. Just about every one has anti lag, and many many other features like boost controlled by what gear your in so your not blowing 1st through 3rd off all the time when circuit racing. Just about and Racecar has Stand Alone EMS. If it is in the game it should be fully tunable like real life, and Autotune for the ppl who dont know anything about it.

Throw some boost at the thing, and run greater than factory boost as well, now thats a recipe for disaster. First of all, the exhaust manifold will most likely explode within the first couple 100 miles. If the exhaust manifold is replaced with a race unit, the turbo is probably not gonna live happily past about 10,000 miles.

Then think of swapping an ITR engine into a CRX hatchback, an MR2 Turbo engine in an AE86, a ZO6 engine into an old school 'Vette, a Viper V10 into an old-school charger, you get the idea...

Interplatform (2JZ Supra motor in say an RX-7 ) motor swaps would be even cooler

Actually cranking the boost up on any turbo is fine. If the cars had the Wideband AFR then you would know right where your at as far as rich or lean and how much boost you can run safely. Plus Fuel Octane makes a difference in how much boost you can run also.
I actually dont think we need Engine swaps in GT5 because i know they wouldnt do it correctly. I feel they should make the game way more customizable with stand alones, boost controllers and add alot more features. They should just not encrypt it like with GT3 so we can make a program and do hybrids on our own. Some ppl make stupid stuff like Viper V10 in a PT cruiser and stuff but im really not happy about GT4 being encrypted because i bought a old 1970 celica last night and id love to put a big power SR20DET or a RB25DET and make it a drift monster. It wopuld be cool if Polyphony would do motor swaps but i dont want it if they wont do it correctly.

what about upgrading cooling (radiator, water pump, and antifreeze and oil and gas coolers) or water and alcohol injection for the high boost runing turbos and what about water cooled intercoolers like Jay Leno's Toronado

Awesome Idea, I think this should be in GT5 also because Cars do get hot during races. Although i think a Oil Cooler should be added. Fuel Coolers dont really do anything but cool the fuel which in theory is good but will do nothing on the dyno or track in reality.

I think they should also make the intercoolers visible. On GT4 I would love to be able to see a front mount intercooler sitting on my black Civic Type-R. It would make the car look so much more beautiful than it already is. I would also like to be able to switch/hear the blow-off valves more depending on the view you are racing in. I mean you think with a stage 4 turbo upgrade on a car when racing on the front view of the car you would clearly hear the car blow-off along with being able to hear the turbo spool alot easier. I have been around many turbo cars in my life and it doesn't sound anything the same in GT when the car hits boost ans it does in real life. Well I guess I'll stop this before I just keep going on and on. That's just some of my thoughts.

I completely Agree. They should also do the same with Exhausts. I like the BOV idea to. Although i cant speak for Polyphony but all the cars in previous GT games except 2 are set up so all the cars blow off valves vent right back into the compressor inlet. I think the option to route the BOV into the Compressor and to vent to the atmosphere should be an option. If they allowed Vent to the atmosphere they should have brand name BOVs because none of them sound the same and alot of ppl prefer certain ones because of the sound.

This thread has many many awesome ideas. Sorry for the long postbut i feel like there was some stuff that needed to be cleared up and wanted to comment on the good ideas. Keep em coming.

 

[umfogotmyname21]

Well put dude

Like you said visible FMICs would be hot, as would a freakin' different exhaust tip for different exhaust systems

I agree with you on the exhaust tip thing.You would think that changing your exhaust system to a full racing one that the car would still have the stock muffler and everything on it. You'd think or atleast I owould that the piping and the outlet would increase a little when you buy a higher stage exhaust, whether be insemi-racing or full racing.

 

[JM1681]

Good points German Muscle. Although I will retort, and please don't take my comments the wrong way. You certainly know your stuff and I respect that 👍

...Boost Controllers do not help your turbo spool up faster...

Actually, most ball and spring type MBCs, will spool a turbo faster, as they deny the wastegate the ability to prematurely open. On my street car (A VW GTI, 1.8t), I tried running a MBC and unfortunately, the turbo spooled up so much faster, the ECU registered it as a malfunctioning wastegate and started to close the throttle. It was evident on my boost gauge as well.

...Antilag: Anti lag is a system where the computer injects fuel and retards ignition timing during decel. When this happens the engine burns the fuel your injecting and makes your EGTs go up and makes the turbo stay spooled...

Yeah dude, I know

Im all for a actual boost guage. The one in GT4 is crap, all it tells me is whether im in Vacuum or Boost. Matter of fact, i think there needs to be 3 accesory guages in GT5, Accurate Boost, EGT, and Wideband Air Fuel Ratio. I personally would prefer a peak/hold/warning system like the GReddy line of guages. I also think that each guage should be customizable for readout. For boost the options should be PSI, KPA, and Bar. EGT should be °F or °C, and wideband isnt changable.

I agree on the highest of levels. Genuine tuning really needs to be incorporated into a GT game. Tuning a stand alone or any type of boost or A/F controller would be impossible without these gauges. Definitely a vital and awesome idea 👍

Actually cranking the boost up on any turbo is fine...

Oh no doubt dude. Like I said, I tried it, only my ecu was too smart for it

...It wopuld be cool if Polyphony would do motor swaps but i dont want it if they wont do it correctly...

AGREE!!!

...If they allowed Vent to the atmosphere they should have brand name BOVs because none of them sound the same and alot of ppl prefer certain ones because of the sound...

They should also require you to run VPC or some other type of stand alone that allows you to Vent to the atmosphere hassle free. Otherwise, your car should stutter and act crappy when you shift

Thanx for the added info dude Glad you like the thread

 

[milhouse83]

regarding BOVs..i play gt4 on a tv with just one speaker (shame). i was surprised that i didnt hear any "piffft" noise during decel. so i thought maybe BOV noise goes through the right speaker, so i swapped the RCA connector on the tv so that the right audio channel goes in the tv.. and still nothing! PD really should bring BOVs back in gt5!

i sometimes play gt2 just so i can hear the BOV.. but the graphics now look really butt ugly after being spoiled by gt4.

 

[JM1681]

There are BOV sounds in GT4, but you can only hear them with larger turbo kits and really high-horsepower cars.

It's not really the typical GT BOV sound either, kind of a muted "pft". Like if you recirculated the BOV back into the intake with a full airbox

 

[German Muscle]

Good points German Muscle. Although I will retort, and please don't take my comments the wrong way. You certainly know your stuff and I respect that 👍


Actually, most ball and spring type MBCs, will spool a turbo faster, as they deny the wastegate the ability to prematurely open. On my street car (A VW GTI, 1.8t), I tried running a MBC and unfortunately, the turbo spooled up so much faster, the ECU registered it as a malfunctioning wastegate and started to close the throttle. It was evident on my boost gauge as well.

They should also require you to run VPC or some other type of stand alone that allows you to Vent to the atmosphere hassle free. Otherwise, your car should stutter and act crappy when you shift

Thanx for the added info dude Glad you like the thread

ahh a fellow VW owner. MBC may spool a turbo up quicker in some situations, all situations when using a internal wastegate. I was referring to cars with External Wastegates. When i helped my buddy mod his SRT4 we had to find loopholes. First we had to get Stage 1 to eliminate the boost cut, overboost, and other CELs we did have a MBC on the car and the turbo wasnt really any different we did however haft to make tune it all the time and later switched to a Profec B. Now these however will spool differently based on settings. They are the best for Internal Wastegate turbo systems. What sucks about internal wastegates is they come in and spike way up then fall. this causes for a crappy powerband. External wastegates are the opposite and work best with MBCs. External wastegates will go straight up to the set boost and just sit there. It sounds like you n eed to do what we did. Get a aftermarket wastegate actuator and see if it still throws a code, if its fine then add the MBC into the mix. The Motronic ECU prolly isnt going to like it so i would recomend geting it chipped Suck you have driveby wire, can you convert to drive by cable? if so then this should eliminate that issue. The ecu may freak out about it tho but im sure a chip maker can take cvare of that.

As for the VPC, that is only for MAF cars. cars with a MAP can vent to the atmosphere with no problem. Its only on the older cars that have MAFs that require a VPC. Ive actually dealt with VPCs and i dont care for them cause its hard to get them to work properly. Its much easier to get a better MAF or to cheat the MAF. im pretty sure there are other ways to have a BOV vent to the atmosphere on a maf car. I know with DSMs a chip will fix it. Im pretty knowledgable with DSMs, SRT4s, and VWs as the guy with the SRT4 is my best friend and also has a fully built AWD Talon that just ran a 7.5 at almost 100MPH in the 1/8th on 25PSI and that was its first pass this year. Since then it has gotten a bigger turbo and still needs alot of bugs worked out.

Another thing i just thought of that is a problem in GT4 gears are not correct. The Neon SRT4 stock gearing isnt even close to real life. i had to buy a racing trans and enter in the factory gear ratios for it to feel right. They also failed to put the factory front mount on the car and the car sounded nothing like it does. I dont hate GT4 i play it daily still, but stuff like this makes me mad. If they are gonna do stuff then do it right ya know?

Keep the ideas flowing though, it will likely help me spark some more to. Ive had the stand alone and the other ideas i posted above for a while i just didnt find a thread worth posting them in.

GM

 

[umfogotmyname21]

I thought of another thing that I would like to see concerning the turbo area of the game. I'd like to be able to choose the type of turbo I use on my car. As we all know not all turbos are the same. I'd like to maybe be able to choose that the turbo I put on my car maybe be a ball bearing turbo or not. t would also be nice if the manufacture that you bought it from changes the horsepower and torque you get out of it. I mean not all the turbos out there will make the same power. I.e. a HKS tubo might be better than another or Blitz might be better. Let me know if you guys would like this idea too.

 

[JM1681]

Yeah dude, internal wastegate providing, MBCs spool faster Also, I threw around the idea of adding an external gate to my car, BAD BACON! The Bosch ecu wants what it wants and anything else will not do. I had a free trial of Revo software in my car, and believe it or not, I'm not a fan. Yeah the extra top-end is nice, but the HUGE increase in torque makes the car very hard to drive. So, no boost upgrades for me, just basic bolt-ons (Which I for one think are MORE than adequate )

As for the VPC, that is only for MAF cars. cars with a MAP can vent to the atmosphere with no problem. Its only on the older cars that have MAFs that require a VPC...

I think you might have had this backwards Most new cars run MAP and MAF sensors, while older cars generally (At least as far as I know) run just MAP sensors.

About the gearing, well, for years of waiting, we did in fact get a very half-assed product. GT4 is far off from the expectations of many. I for one am trading it in cuz I just can't get used to it. Been playing it for months now, just not thrilled at all. Or let me re-phrase, I'm more thrilled about photo-mode than I am about the lackluster racing experience.

Oh, and BTW, VW = What are you driving?

About being able to choose the type of turbo, STRONGLY agree. I could see the whole line of MHI turbos (TDO4-TDO5 series), some Turbonetics, and some Garrett turbos as well, as some very viable and varying turbo options

Good call indeed

 

[German Muscle]

Yeah dude, internal wastegate providing, MBCs spool faster Also, I threw around the idea of adding an external gate to my car, BAD BACON! The Bosch ecu wants what it wants and anything else will not do. I had a free trial of Revo software in my car, and believe it or not, I'm not a fan. Yeah the extra top-end is nice, but the HUGE increase in torque makes the car very hard to drive. So, no boost upgrades for me, just basic bolt-ons (Which I for one think are MORE than adequate )


I think you might have had this backwards Most new cars run MAP and MAF sensors, while older cars generally (At least as far as I know) run just MAP sensors.

About the gearing, well, for years of waiting, we did in fact get a very half-assed product. GT4 is far off from the expectations of many. I for one am trading it in cuz I just can't get used to it. Been playing it for months now, just not thrilled at all. Or let me re-phrase, I'm more thrilled about photo-mode than I am about the lackluster racing experience.

Oh, and BTW, VW = What are you driving?

About being able to choose the type of turbo, STRONGLY agree. I could see the whole line of MHI turbos (TDO4-TDO5 series), some Turbonetics, and some Garrett turbos as well, as some very viable and varying turbo options

Good call indeed

Get a custom chip made. I personally wouldnt be able to stand the computer limiting me and would end up putting a different EMS on it or Autronic.

I meant to say MAP and MAF, but alot of modern cars dont have MAFs like the SRT4. But like i said you can have a MAF car with a BOV vent to the atmosphere with a few simple tricks. DSMs run MAF and MAP sensors.

GT4 is kind ahalf assed but i dont think its a bad game really. I know there is problems with it keeping ppls attn. I think it has to do with the the long waits, and deep menus plus all of the inaccurate things. Im just Hoping someone figures out how to do hybriding on GT4.

My car is in my sig. its a 2.0L 16v Turbo. Its a big sleeper! cant beat big power in a early 80s family car I have a dyno sheet if you wanna see it.

Custom turbos was another idea ive had. I would love for them to have just about every turbo made. This would require them to buy the liceses to Garrett, Turbonetics, Precision, Mitsubishi, Borg Warner, Innovative and all the other turbo manufacters. You think they will do this? definatly not! so ive come up with a much better idea. Custom Turbochargers where you enter the values of the turbo like:
in IHRA Drag Racing 2. To where you can make your own hybrid turbocharger and put it on the car. Using Brand Name turbo companies and having their full Libraries available would be the ultimate and i would no doubt pay for a game like that but it would haft to be like that for all Parts and actually be realistic.
I remember reading about GT4 when i came out in japan and ppl said when you drive a BMW M3 it feels like you are. well i think this is not true. They just made the cars have more levels of handling where in GT3 there was like 5 poor, fairly poor, decent, fairly good, and good. It is much better than GT3 but i seriously want GT5 to be the best ever and include the things i have discussed and the cars i have included in the GT5 Car wishlist. You better believe if i was the one calling the shots it would be having this stuff. Polyphonies Excuse before was the hardware wasnt capable which its not. well they have the PS3 now so there is no reason why they cant have this stuff in the game. Im starting to ramble on so im just gonna hit the post button.

 

[JM1681]

Get a custom chip made...

Is this possible? I don't know of anyone who will touch the motronic

...so ive come up with a much better idea. Custom Turbochargers where you enter the values of the turbo...To where you can make your own hybrid turbocharger and put it on the car...

I like this idea a LOT!! Enter in things like compressor size, requested CFM...Man, I can only imagine how fun that would be...Oh man...Starting to drool...