Turn 10 May Reveal Real-Time Ray Tracing in Forza Motorsport 8 at the Game Developers Conference

1,719
Finland
Finland
HI-tauer
Too bad ray tracing is still used as a gimmic or as a party trick instead of realism. All surfaces look like mirrors. I hope developers tone down the effects to create more realistic reflections and lighting. I dont need to see reflection of a nazi or an explosion from the shiny ww2 era citroen that has never even been that shiny - not even from the factory. Nor do I need wet floors or mud look like polished ice on spotlights. Just looks bad. So far minecrafts lighting demo has been the only real benefit ive seen.
 

WFO Krypto

(Banned)
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United States
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Facts are facts, and no one has the "power" to say the otherwise of it.

Facts are facts? Sales has nothing to do with being a better game or not. Why wouldn't an arcade "mario cart" game sell more? It was targeted at the Grand Theft Auto group of arcade players. Not real racers.

FM7 is light years better than FM6. I tried Horizon. It felt like I was 12 years old again playing Mario Cart. Forza Horizon is nowhere near the SIM racing game that FM7 is. It was never meant to be.
 
1,252
United States
Country lead by Bigoted Orange
ShawnPhillips
Shanic Oatmeme
and don't get me started on the default car modifications in FM7
I agree that that is one of the things wrong with FM7's Homologation system. Having the cars come pre-upgraded to homologation spec when you acquire them is likely what lead to a lot of people thinking that you couldn't upgrade cars at all in Campaign.
I have already discussed in other threads how I would overhaul the Homologation system and Campaign structure to allow greater player freedom while still helping to keep the racing more fair and even then an anything goes PI limit, so I won't go into detail here. But most of the racing I do in FM7 free-play mode still uses the Homologation rules, so I'd like it to stay to some degree for FM8, just with some adjustments.
 
2,556
Italy
Italy
Yellohead
Clydeyellow
You are right. But there is c) option with special hoppers for Series X players. Everything else is cross play, but these hoppers with dynamic day night aren't.

That still counts as a mild case of the b), tho. You have some multiplayer hoppers where, if you try to enter while playing on the OldBox, a pop-up comes up and says, "wait, you can't do that". Or you just don't have the hoppers appearing - in any case, it becomes a functional difference between different platforms that are ostensibly part of the same ecosystem, i.e. what Microsoft is keen on not doing.

Besides, dynamic TOD wouldn't be the most resource-intensive thing ever - and they can always reduce LOD accordingly to make it work on the OldBox.
 
13,878
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
Facts are facts? Sales has nothing to do with being a better game or not. Why wouldn't an arcade "mario cart" game sell more? It was targeted at the Grand Theft Auto group of arcade players. Not real racers.

FM7 is light years better than FM6. I tried Horizon. It felt like I was 12 years old again playing Mario Cart. Forza Horizon is nowhere near the SIM racing game that FM7 is. It was never meant to be.
Horizon isn't trying to be a sim racing game. That much should be obvious. It not being a sim-oriented game doesn't make it worse off than one that is.

All you seem to be doing is massively exaggerating a point of view.
 
1,252
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ShawnPhillips
Shanic Oatmeme
Besides, dynamic TOD wouldn't be the most resource-intensive thing ever
Gran Turismo 5 handled Dynamic TOD and weather in multiplayer on the PS3, and Forza Horizon handles it well, so I'm sure Turn 10 could pull it off if they really tried.
FM7 was somewhat hamstrung by being the first Forza Motorsport to release on Non-Fixed Hardware (With Xbox One X and PC), So hopfully with an extra year of dev time they can get that sorted out and work to provide a proper dynamic TOD and Weather system in FM8.
 
304
Germany
Germany
Or you just don't have the hoppers appearing - in any case, it becomes a functional difference between different platforms that are ostensibly part of the same ecosystem, i.e. what Microsoft is keen on not doing.
"Forza Horizon 2 on Xbox One will exclusively use the dynamic weather system and Driveatars. These features will not be present in the Xbox 360 version." https://www.polygon.com/2014/6/23/5...-360-version-is-a-different-game-than-on-xbox

I wouldn't let the hoppers appear on the X1 versions. It's an simple solution imo and we don't know whether the cross gen games will be exactly the same or have different features like FH2, which took advantage of the hardware.

Besides, dynamic TOD wouldn't be the most resource-intensive thing ever - and they can always reduce LOD accordingly to make it work on the OldBox.
If the GDC conference is anything to go by, we could see Real Time Ray Tracing on FM8. Not even the Xbox One X is powerful enough to support this imo and you would need real time lightning to do TOD.

Gran Turismo 5 handled Dynamic TOD and weather in multiplayer on the PS3
It's not about trying really, because the devs had different priorities.

Many GT fans took TOD and weather for granted and look how that worked out. We got weather as an update years later iirc and TOD never happend.
 
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2,556
Italy
Italy
Yellohead
Clydeyellow
"Forza Horizon 2 on Xbox One will exclusively use the dynamic weather system and Driveatars. These features will not be present in the Xbox 360 version." https://www.polygon.com/2014/6/23/5...-360-version-is-a-different-game-than-on-xbox

That was six years ago. The Xbox 360 was a completely different system than the Xbox One. The game was a different (not even a port) developed by another studio (Sumo Digital) on the OG Forza Horizon engine. There was no crossplay and no save transferability whatsoever, because it was a different game that shared certain aesthetic elements.

I think when Microsoft says, "no exclusivity for the SX for a year or so", they mean less "we're releasing knock-off versions of the same games coming out for the newer console", and more "we're not changing the OS and basic architecture of the system going into this new console, and we're already releasing games on PC, where they can run on a variety of machines of different power, so it shouldn't be a problem to keep supporting the OldBox until its hardware isn't able to run the games even with the most basic settings, which should happen in about one year".

Or, to be more to the point: your Xbox is now basically a specialized PC and it will keep running the latest games at low settings until it's too old even for that.

If the GDC conference is anything to go by, we could see Real Time Ray Tracing on FM8. Not even the Xbox One X is powerful enough to support this imo and you would need real time lightning to do TOD.

It's not just a matter of power, you need hardware that supports real time ray tracing, and the OldBox in any of its variations doesn't have that. But no biggie: you can just toggle ray tracing and run with baked-in lighting if you are on hardware that doesn't provide ray tracing, same as every "RTX enhanced" PC game coming out these days.

And you don't really need ray tracing to do TOD, although of course it's going to look a lot better with it.
 
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584
United States
United States
I'm less interested in new lighting techniques and more concerned with the use of old car models that continue to show their age with every iteration. Things like the 300ZX having 4 seats in the coupe chassis is really getting old. People cried and moaned when GTS started fresh, but look at the amazing result. Forza's lighting has always looked great - they even got Pixar to help with FM4's lighting. But their car models need work. Hopefully they're giving that some attention, too
 
9,401
Australia
Western Sydney
mustafur
Horizon a better game? Are you high? I hear the new Mario Cart is pretty good, maybe you could go check that out?
If I want a Sim I would rather a different game to be honest, so I have little interest in the Motorsport series, Horizons physics might be less realistic but it's still somewhat at a Simcade level despite it being more of a Sandbox open world driving game, it's far surpiror to any Motorsport title in terms of gameplay as far as I'm concerned.
 
10,456
Canada
Canada
I'm less interested in new lighting techniques and more concerned with the use of old car models that continue to show their age with every iteration. Things like the 300ZX having 4 seats in the coupe chassis is really getting old. People cried and moaned when GTS started fresh, but look at the amazing result. Forza's lighting has always looked great - they even got Pixar to help with FM4's lighting. But their car models need work. Hopefully they're giving that some attention, too
The funny thing is, the majority of people doesn't seem too bothered by those FM1 models as far as Forza goes. If those models are given attention, awesome. But IMO, time should be spent improving other parts of the game instead.
 
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584
United States
United States
The funny thing is, the majority of people doesn't seem too bothered by those FM1 models as far as Forza goes. If those models are given attention, awesome. But IMO, time should be spent improving other parts of the game instead.

All areas could use improvement, of course, but if they're concentrating on improving visuals, then new car models do a lot more than ray tracing. It's not like their lighting engine is bad, just look at FH4 and how gorgeous the lighting in that game is. The newer car models look great, but some of these are carried over from the Xbox 360 days and are in a dying need for an update.
 

Terronium-12

The Man Comes Around
Moderator
27,215
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KR_Viper
I Renown I
Why are we treating this like an 'either or' scenario? We can have both ray traced lighting and new car meshes. :P

Not even the Xbox One X is powerful enough to support this imo and you would need real time lightning to do TOD.

Well, yes and no. The One X doesn't have hardware-accelerated support for ray tracing, meaning any and all RT calculations would befall the CPU, or some needlessly complex CPU>Memory>GPU>Memory pipeline. I may not have the order correct, but you get the idea...I hope. :lol:

Basically, a layout that would allow devs to constantly keep the GPU memory (and its cores) saturated, otherwise it just wouldn't work. It probably wouldn't work regardless because it isn't efficient in the slightest. That's where the "no" part comes in because it's less about brute power, and more about the efficiency to use that power without gimping any and everything else around it.
 
307
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Horizon is the worst thing to ever happen to the Forza brand, not a fact, just my opinion.

The funny thing is, the majority of people doesn't seem too bothered by those FM1 models as far as Forza goes. If those models are given attention, awesome. But IMO, time should be spent improving other parts of the game instead.

I'm one of those, I'd rather have 600 nice cars to drive than 300 perfect cars to take photos of or just stare at in the menu.

I agree that that is one of the things wrong with FM7's Homologation system. Having the cars come pre-upgraded to homologation spec when you acquire them is likely what lead to a lot of people thinking that you couldn't upgrade cars at all in Campaign.
I have already discussed in other threads how I would overhaul the Homologation system and Campaign structure to allow greater player freedom while still helping to keep the racing more fair and even then an anything goes PI limit, so I won't go into detail here. But most of the racing I do in FM7 free-play mode still uses the Homologation rules, so I'd like it to stay to some degree for FM8, just with some adjustments.

While I agree. I still think most players over look how great free play can be in FM7. Lately I've been upgrading cars and using buckets to move certain cars to other divisions. Like matching the Renault 5 Turbo to the Showroom rally division or the Jaguar E-type to the Vintage GT division. They should build on it and really sell it with the next game and make a point of saying something like "or build your own career through free play."

(Sorry for double posting, mods.)
 
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ShawnPhillips
Shanic Oatmeme
The funny thing is, the majority of people doesn't seem too bothered by those FM1 models as far as Forza goes. If those models are given attention, awesome. But IMO, time should be spent improving other parts of the game instead.
I'm the same, I spent most of my time in GT5 and 6 driving the "Standard" model cars that re-used PS2 assets simply because those where my favorite cars to drive.
While I agree. I still think most players over look how great free play can be in FM7. Lately I've been upgrading cars and using buckets to move certain cars to other divisions. Like matching the Renault 5 Turbo to the Showroom rally division or the Jaguar E-type to the Vintage GT division. They should build on it and really sell it with the next game and make a point of saying something like "or build your own career through free play."
That actually sounds pretty cool, One of my favorite things to do in Free-play is use buckets to pit multiple Divisions with similar PI limits together, but I've never though about building a car to a different Division spec. It actually lines up pretty well with my suggestion of allowing some cars to qualify for multiple divisions, Which would be necessary for another suggestion of adding Divisions based on real world racing leagues like Australia's Improved Production or Touring Car Masters series, rather then simply splitting divisions based on the car type.
 
10,456
Canada
Canada
I'm one of those, I'd rather have 600 nice cars to drive than 300 perfect cars to take photos of or just stare at in the menu.
I'm the same, I spent most of my time in GT5 and 6 driving the "Standard" model cars that re-used PS2 assets simply because those where my favorite cars to drive.
Cheers! I'm just glad T10 and PG aren't chasing for perfection like Kaz and PD always do, or we'd be stuck with a developer that constantly removes its cars to aim for beauty. Not all of us wants that and I'm glad there are those like me who couldn't care less about that as well.

Forza is in such a good position with its car list right now, and nobody can't deny it has the best cars of any game out there. Not even GT is likely to touch it any time soon and that's a hard cold fact. I rather have more tracks so we have more environments to race/drive on. That's one of the things I want T10 to improve on, as well as other parts of the game.
 
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510
Argentina
Buenos Aires
lgfd070
Nowyx
Facts are facts? Sales has nothing to do with being a better game or not. Why wouldn't an arcade "mario cart" game sell more? It was targeted at the Grand Theft Auto group of arcade players. Not real racers.

FM7 is light years better than FM6. I tried Horizon. It felt like I was 12 years old again playing Mario Cart. Forza Horizon is nowhere near the SIM racing game that FM7 is. It was never meant to be.
Who told you that i was referring to the sales? I agree with you, better sales doesn't make a better game. But calling Forza Motorsport a sim racing game is a joke. It's a simcade, if you're at GTPlanet, and you don't know the term simcade, i think our little chat ends here... by the way, why do you think Forza Motorsport 7 is a better game than Horizon? just because it's for "real racers"? i'm impatient to see why do you prefer Motorsport over Horizon (I'll advise you that Motorsport is not a bad game, but is Horizon a better game? sure)
 
307
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I rather have more tracks so we have more environments to race/drive on. That's one of the things I want T10 to improve on, as well as other parts of the game.

Some licenses probably don't allow it, but I would of been happy with more reverse configurations, Spa for example!

raidillon.png
 
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ShawnPhillips
Shanic Oatmeme
Some licenses probably don't allow it, but I would of been happy with more reverse configurations, Spa for example!
Licensing might not allow reverse configurations of real world tracks, As most real world tracks don't allow reverse direction as the Saw-tooth curbs would mess up tires and suspensions if driven over in the opposite direction.
 
303
England
England
Does anyone know of any tracks that are licenced to run in both directions? I only know of two, Knockhill and Misano. Misano ran one way for cars and another for bikes, but I believe they both use the motorbike direction now. Knockhill for me didn't really work very well backwards, it was less spectacular and took away a few passing places.

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TCRUK20KNR2-2.jpg
 

Northstar

The Original Party Worm
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RokkitShipp
Does anyone know of any tracks that are licenced to run in both directions? I only know of two, Knockhill and Misano. Misano ran one way for cars and another for bikes, but I believe they both use the motorbike direction now. Knockhill for me didn't really work very well backwards, it was less spectacular and took away a few passing places.

The infield course at Indianapolis runs both directions as well.
 

WFO Krypto

(Banned)
147
United States
United States
The infield course at Indianapolis runs both directions as well.

The infield course at Indy is a very underrated road course in real life. Nascrap people were complaining that one of their series was going to run the infield course instead of the oval this year. After the cars turned some laps in testing, they all changed their opinions. I would much rather watch a race on the infield course than the oval.
 
10,456
Canada
Canada
Hey guys! This video I found is pretty much what we've already heard back in December and now but in video form, incase anyone didn't catch up on the news about FM8.

The uploader recently uploaded it and thought it was very informative. Enjoy!

 
1,252
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ShawnPhillips
Shanic Oatmeme
I was looking forward to Turn 10's GDC talk, I love nerdy tech breakdowns. But seems this Global pandemic put it on hold as I have not been able to find anything. Only GDC 2020 talk from turn 10 I have found is a breakdown of how they put on the Forza Monthly livestreams.
 
1,052
Germany
Near Nürburgring
DanPrez
It might be still coming, but maybe after the games official reveal? Could be any minute now, honestly.
 
10,456
Canada
Canada
It's a shame T10 had to miss out on GDC this year. But you know, hope is not lost. I'm positive we'll hear something soon. It may not be this month, but it'll be soon.

*Remains optimistic* :D