UAP/UFO - Any Closer to Explanation?

Discussion in 'Opinions & Current Events' started by Dotini, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    At the encouragement of a well-known member, I am starting this thread on unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP), formerly known as unidentified flying objects (UFO). This is not to be confused with the thread on aliens, which goes on as before. The purpose of this new thread is to report, discuss, explain and even debunk yours and others sightings, and any hypotheses you might wish to entertain. Here, the discussion of aliens, while not forbidden, is strongly discouraged on the solid grounds that it inhibits progress on the topic problem, is the proper topic of another existing thread, and there is no known or proven evidence of aliens to discuss.

    I provide this link to the wikipedia article, which is a fine place to start.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unidentified_flying_object

    Edit: Very interesting and possibly crucial link:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_gravity_control_propulsion_research

    Worthwhile Documentaries List:



    ....more to come
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019
  2. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    Amazing cover painted by the great science-fiction artist Frank R. Paul for the pulp magazine Science Wonder Stories, showing a huge mechanical disk drifting through space with the Woolworth Building in tow.

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    Frank R. Paul’s cover for the November 1929 “Science Wonder Stories,” via Wikimedia Commons.



    Anonymous cover art of non-fiction book authored by a military officer.

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    Donald Keyhoe, “The Flying Saucers Are Real” (Fawcett Publications, 1950).
     
  3. BobK

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    Ah, so that's what happened to Woolworths. At one time they had a store in pretty much every medium or larger town in America. I was wondering where they went.
     
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  4. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    Thanks for your post. The Woolworth Building, currently a National Historic Landmark, was the tallest building in the world at the time of the artwork. It could be questioned what role such imagery made in the public perception, creation of memes, popular culture, etc.
     
  5. Dotini

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    The classified drone test hypothesis seems to be diminished, if the details following are to be accepted.

    U.S. Navy Releases Dates of Three Officially Acknowledged Encounters with “Phenomena”

    11 September, 2019 / in UFO Phenomena


    By John Greenewald, Jr. – The Black Vault – Originally Published September 11, 2019

    Today, the U.S. Navy released the dates of three officially acknowledged encounters with what they call “phenomena.” In multiple statements received exclusively by The Black Vault, the Navy excited those interested in UFOs by officially admittingthat the videos referred to as the ”FLIR1,” “Gimble” and “GoFast” were, in fact, “Unidentified Aerial Phenomena” or UAPs. Now, the Navy has offered up brief, but additional details about the cases, some of which, were previously unknown.

    [​IMG]
    Screen grab from the “GoFast” video on To The Stars Academy of Arts & Science (TTSA) website. Image Credit: TTSA

    The three videos referenced were originally released by the New York Times and To The Stars Academy of Arts & Science (TTSA) beginning in December of 2017. Two of the three videos, “FLIR1” and “Gimble,” were released first. Later in March of 2018, the “GoFast” video was revealed on TTSA’s website but offered limited details.

    Most will recognize the phrasing, “Unidentified Flying Object” or UFO, much more easily than UAP. However, the U.S. Navy has seemingly adopted the latter in recent years. According to Joseph Gradisher, official spokesperson for the Deputy Chief of Naval Operations for Information Warfare, “the ‘Unidentified Aerial Phenomena’ terminology is used because it provides the basic descriptor for the sightings/observations of unauthorized/unidentified aircraft/objects that have been observed entering/operating in the airspace of various military-controlled training ranges.”

    When asked what the three videos represented, Gradisher stated to The Black Vault, “The Navy has not publicly released characterizations or descriptions, nor released any hypothesis or conclusions, in regard to the objects contained in the referenced videos.”

    Although the Navy will not go on the record about any conclusion they have drawn, Gradisher did offer a glimpse into how they characterize the videos by adding, “The Navy considers the phenomena contained/depicted in those 3 videos as unidentified” (emphasis added).

    It was also revealed that “FLIR1,” “Gimble” and “GoFast” are not the official names used by the U.S. military to reference these videos. “The Navy’s official identifiers for the referenced videos do not match the names referenced (FLIR1, Gimble and GoFast)… the Navy identifies these videos by the respective dates of the observations/sightings,” said Gradisher.

    The Navy did not offer the exact designation numbers for the videos, but did reveal the dates for all three incidents. “[The] dates are 14 November 2004 for ‘FLIR1’ and 21 January 2015 for both ‘Gimble’ and ‘GoFast.’”

    The “FLIR1” video was taken during what is known as the “Tic-Tac Incident” which occurred off the coast of San Diego, and the date for this encounter has been known for some time. However, the dates for the “Gimble” and “GoFast” videos, were not. According to TTSA’s website, “the date, location, and other information have been removed by the originating authority as part of the release approval process.” This phrasing is used verbatim on both the “Gimble” and “GoFast” pages.

    With this new revelation from the Navy, it now shows the “Gimble” and “GoFast” cases occurred on the same day and quite possibly, are two aspects of the same event. The idea has been floated by some researchers that the videos were related, due to critical analysis of the on-screen displays, and the fact that the voices within the videos sound similar, but the fact was not officially confirmed, until now.

    The Navy was asked for more specifics, such as details about the location the videos were shot in, but the response to that line of questioning was brief. “We will not be providing any details on individual reports,” responded Gradisher. And that is where the information stopped flowing on the three videos.

    The news comes as a surprise to many, and aides in research currently underway on these UAP cases. Although the Navy won’t comment on the specifics about the “Gimble” and “GoFast” location; one researcher feels he’s figured it out.

    [​IMG]
    The Nimitz Encounters movie poster. Image Credit: Dave Beaty

    According to filmmaker Dave Beaty, who re-released the “Nimitz Encounters” movie about the “Tic-Tac Incident” earlier this year, another piece of the puzzle has emerged with these recent statements. “The fact that we now know the dates of the ‘Gimbal’ and ‘GoFast’ videos helps put one more piece of the puzzle together,” says Beaty. “The deck logs from the USS Normandy, the cruiser in the USS Roosevelt Strike Group, shows she was in a specific location off the coast of Florida and Georgia. Specifically, a little more than 100 miles east, equidistant between Jacksonville and Savannah. This is the JAX OPAREA. The cruiser stays with the carrier at all times during operations. So now we not only know the date, but the estimated position of the UAP.”


    Although many theories have been proposed on what these UAP encounters are, some believe they may simply be a biproduct of U.S. military training exercises utilizing classified drone or related technology. Unbeknownst to the pilots involved, these classified instruments are utilized in their field of view, captured on infrared cameras, and certain members of the military may not be ‘read in’ to what classified technology they may be witnessing. Although that seems like a plausible explanation for these encounters, these new statements by the Navy labeling the cases as “unidentified aerial phenomena” are making some second guess that theory.

    “I would find it hard to believe that another branch, such as the USAF, would conduct secret tests without letting the Navy know,” said Beaty. “It’s not beyond the realm of possibility, if secrecy is paramount, but I think it would break a few safety protocols. I’ve speculated that these are the newest advanced drones we have, but now, I’m reconsidering that once again.”

    The hunt for the truth… continues.

    https://www.theblackvault.com/docum...ially-acknowledged-encounters-with-phenomena/
     
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  6. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    A video, part of a submission to the Supreme Court of India which is now under consideration.


    https://silvarecord.com/2019/09/13/ttsa-ufos-india-pakistan-nuclear-war/


    The following article was published by Popular Mechanics, widely considered to be well-connected and reliable in reporting of intelligence and military news. Cilck link for the full set of videos.

    The Navy Says Those UFO Videos Are Real

    And they were never meant to be released to the public.

    [​IMG]
    By Kyle Mizokami
    Sep 16, 2019

    [​IMG]
    YOUTUBE
    • The U.S. Navy says three videos showing reported encounters between Navy aircraft and UFOs are real.
    • But a Navy spokesperson says the clips show “unexplained aerial phenomena,” which is not to say that they’re piloted by aliens.
    • While the videos are unclassified, the Navy says they were never cleared for release.
    The U.S. Navy has confirmed that three online videos purportedly showing UFOs are genuine. The service says the videos, taken by Navy pilots, show “unexplained aerial phenomena,” but also states that the clips should have never been released to the public in the first place.

    The three videos in question are titled "FLIR1," "Gimbal," and "GoFast." They show two separate encounters between Navy aircraft and UFOs.

    One video was taken in 2015 off the East Coast by a F/A-185F fighter jet using the aircraft's onboard Raytheon AN/ASQ-228 Advanced Targeting Forward-Looking Infrared (ATFLIR) Pod. The other clip, also recorded with a Super Hornet ATFLIR pod, was taken off the coast of California in 2004 by pilots flying from the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz. In the videos, air crews loudly debate what the objects are and where they came from.

    The videos were released for public viewing by The New York Times and To The Stars Academy of Arts & Sciences, a UFO research group from former Blink-182 member Tom DeLonge.

    MORE UFOS
    [​IMG]
    Why Are Senators Suddenly Being Briefed on UFOs?

    [​IMG]
    All Our UFO Covers from Over the Years

    [​IMG]
    Blink-182 Guy Finds Weird Space Metals


    In each case, the objects in the videos undertook aerial maneuvers that aren't possible with current aviation technology. In the 2004 incident, according to The New York Times, the objects "appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. Then they either dropped out of radar range or shot straight back up."

    Joseph Gradisher, official spokesperson for the Deputy Chief of Naval Operations for Information Warfare, told The Black Vault, an online repository of secret and otherwise classified documents, that the Navy "designates the objects contained in these videos as unidentified aerial phenomena."


    That terminology is important. "Unidentified Aerial Phenomena" provides "the basic descriptor for the sightings/observations of unauthorized/unidentified aircraft/objects that have been observed entering/operating in the airspace of various military-controlled training ranges," Gradisher told The Black Vault.

    In other words, the Pentagon says the aerial objects in the videos are simply unidentified, and for now, unexplained. The Navy is pointedly not saying the objects are flying saucers or otherwise controlled by aliens.

    Earlier this year, the Department of Defense told The Black Vault that the videos were unclassified, but never cleared for public release, and that there had been no review process within the Pentagon for releasing them.

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a29073804/navy-ufo-videos-real/?utm_source=reddit.com
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  7. Dotini

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    A secret too terrible to be told? Oh, Let me guess. Lord Kinbote? :mischievous:

     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  8. Eunos_Cosmo

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    That footage could be easily replicated by a mostly-stationary balloon floating a few hundred feet above the ocean. It appears moving against the background because its at a different elevation. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.
     
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  9. Dotini

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    Good!
    Someone here is suggesting that maybe the 3 US Navy videos, "FLIR1," "Gimbal," and "GoFast", are showing only slow moving balloons, and are basically a case of mistaken identity. I think that is the most simple, elegant, useful and even beautiful possible explanation - if it could account for all the known facts. Instant acceleration to Mach 5 and beyond are claimed (but not publicly proved). So I think you've found a reasonable place to begin.

    My favorite all-time favorite UFO explanation is "street lamps reflecting off a duck's bottom", which is how for years the USAF explained the Lubbock Lights events of 1951. Later they simply said they were unexplained.

    upload_2019-9-19_4-46-46.jpeg

    upload_2019-9-19_4-46-46.jpeg
    upload_2019-9-19_4-46-46.png




    Another very intriguing explanation is the hoax theory, the idea that the US Navy videos are a deliberate deception with the intention to affect public perception and/or outwit potential adversaries.

    Or, and I do like this one, somebody else could be perpetrating a hoax upon the Navy.




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    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  10. Eunos_Cosmo

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    Kindly point me to evidence of the "instant Mach-5" claim. Until I see something substantial, the overwhelming video evidence points to a stationary object (likely a balloon) floating a few hundred feet above the Ocean. Speculating a bit, it even sounds like the pilots in the recording know what it is and are just hamming it up over the radio for fun. It honestly could even be a tracking systems test which would explain the Navy's reticence to talk about it....

    The pictures in your post: I can't explain it - I can't even tell what I'm looking at. Is that even the sky? I've taken some blurry ass photos too. But to jump from that to Aliens...or even an object (I'd say there is a 99% chance it's a camera artifact of some kind) is a lot.
     
  11. Novalee

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    im not convinced simply because to travel at or near lightspeed is required . so unless a way of manipulating space-time was invented somewhere , objects with mass cannot go at lightspeed or near it .
     
  12. Joey D

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    So the US government essentially confirms the existence of UFOs two days before the Area 51 raid. I feel like this is some elaborate plot to rid the US of Kyles.
     
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  13. Dotini

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    The hypersonic (Mach 5 or above) claim is made in most if not all of the reports on the 2004 Nimitz and 2015-2016 Theodore Roosevelt carrier UAP encounters issued by the New York Times, Washington Post, Space.com, even Michio Kaku. Numerous retired and actively serving of the witnessing F-18 pilots have made the claim in writing and/or in on-air, for-the-record interviews. The commanding non-com officer on the USS Princeton CIC, in charge of the most advanced radar of the day, made the claim, on-air and for the record. The US Navy has not denied any of this, but has officially stated all this is real and actually happened, even if unidentified and unexplained. The President and some US Senators have been briefed. The articles and video interviews are available online, in print and right here in this thread and in the Aliens thread, if you care to search. If you don't care to search, then if you wish, I will again find and reprint here one or more of them for you. :)
     
  14. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    Possibly interesting video of Iranian Revolutionary Guards firing at unknown object, - maybe a US drone?

     
  15. Dotini

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    For your consideration, a peer reviewed article.




    Estimating Flight Characteristics of Anomalous Unidentified Aerial Vehicles

    by Kevin H. Knuth 1,2,*[​IMG], Robert M. Powell 2[​IMG] and Peter A. Reali 2


    1
    Department of Physics, University at Albany (SUNY), Albany, NY 12222, USA
    2
    Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies (SCU), Fort Myers, FL 33913, USA
    *
    Author to whom correspondence should be addressed.
    Entropy 2019, 21(10), 939; https://doi.org/10.3390/e21100939
    Received: 21 August 2019 / Revised: 17 September 2019 / Accepted: 21 September 2019 / Published: 25 September 2019
    (This article belongs to the Special Issue MaxEnt 2019—The 39th International Workshop on Bayesian Inference and Maximum Entropy Methods in Science and Engineering)


    Abstract
    Several Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) encountered by military, commercial, and civilian aircraft have been reported to be structured craft that exhibit `impossible’ flight characteristics. We consider a handful of well-documented encounters, including the 2004 encounters with the Nimitz Carrier Group off the coast of California, and estimate lower bounds on the accelerations exhibited by the craft during the observed maneuvers. Estimated accelerations range from almost 100g" role="presentation" style="box-sizing: border-box; max-height: none; display: inline; line-height: normal; word-spacing: normal; word-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; min-width: 0px; min-height: 0px; border: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; position: relative;">100g to 1000s of gs with no observed air disturbance, no sonic booms, and no evidence of excessive heat commensurate with even the minimal estimated energies. In accordance with observations, the estimated parameters describing the behavior of these craft are both anomalous and surprising. The extreme estimated flight characteristics reveal that these observations are either fabricated or seriously in error, or that these craft exhibit technology far more advanced than any known craft on Earth. In many cases, the number and quality of witnesses, the variety of roles they played in the encounters, and the equipment used to track and record the craft favor the latter hypothesis that these are indeed technologically advanced craft. The observed flight characteristics of these craft are consistent with the flight characteristics required for interstellar travel, i.e., if these observed accelerations were sustainable in space, then these craft could easily reach relativistic speeds within a matter of minutes to hours and cover interstellar distances in a matter of days to weeks, proper time.
    Keywords: UAP; UAV; UFO; Nimitz; Tic-Tac
    ▼ Show Figures
    [​IMG]
    Graphical abstract

    https://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/21/10/939
     
  16. Imari

    Imari

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    Unless they're objects without mass. I can make the dot of a laser pointer accelerate at ludicrous speeds, but that's not considered anomalous or surprising. It also produces no air disturbance, sonic booms, or excessive heat.
     
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  17. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    Thanks for your post!

    The field propulsion technology that in well-known EM theory provides such acceleration and speeds - as well as providing shielding from radiation - for crewed multi-medium (underwater, air and space) vehicles has been known in principle since at least 1970. Recently declassified documents are linked here: https://www.theblackvault.com/docum...-1970-study-on-major-propulsion-developments/

    According to recent for-the-record statements by retired and active duty Navy F-18 pilots, radar operators and now the official spokesman for Information Warfare at the US Navy, the phenomena reported with regards to the USS Nimitz and the USS Theodore Roosevelt is real but at present cannot be fully explained to the public.

    There is a residual possibility that this phenomena can be explained by Earthly technology, either foreign or US.

    Peer reviewed science tells us the UAPs exhibit "speeds within a matter of minutes to hours and cover interstellar distances in a matter of days"

     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  18. Dotini

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    A USO short story from Commander David Fravor...

    It came up from below and swallowed the torpedo which the Navy helo was trying to recover!

     
  19. TenEightyOne

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    Which points out that observations are either false, seriously in error or exhibit accelarative properties of 100s to 1000s of g. There's no mention of instantaneous 0-M5 properties. In summary the paper tells us what we already know: the primary and secondary observers are incorrect in what they believe they see or they see objects with properties that defy everything we know about physics. It's an interesting read though.
     
  20. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    Yeah, you're right, "instantaneous" is incorrect. It would be better to have said, as Cmdr. Fravor did, zero to over the horizon in under 2 seconds.

    And if you've been paying attention, we can envision field propulsion which can in theory emulate the observed objects without defying known physics. Perhaps the engineering side is beyond our ability at this time, though. But maybe not. Because if it is not human technology, what are we dealing with?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_gravity_control_propulsion_research

    To recap, the Navy says the videos are authentic but should not have been released, the objects are real phenomena but of unknown origin, and they will not be releasing any more information on this classified subject. Thanks for your post.


    Edit:
    A witness aboard the Princeton to the Nimitz events speaks out. The ship went to battle stations for a real world event interrupting a training exercise. He viewed the video in the ship's combat control center in much higher clarity. He describes virtually instant acceleration to out of sight range. He saw "legs" on the bottom of the object. He speculates the objects could have been "ultra military equipment that was used against us to see how we were going to react".

     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  21. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    Another Navy fighter pilot comes out with paradigm-busting assertions. At least one of them is incorrect.


    September 26, 2019 - Former Navy Pilot Brian 'Sunshine' Sinclair, San Diego Kusi TV show with Host Paul Ruddy



    Just look at at Anderson Cooper's upper lip as he announces this report.



    A good overall recap.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  22. Dotini

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    2013 Aguadilla, Puerto Rico UAP incident - object travels through air, water, splits in two

    In 2015 you had some understandable doubts and pertinent questions about the 2013 Aguadilla, Puerto Rico UAP incident. After some time passes, a detailed analysis is provided for your consideration. The pdf is 159 pages long, so for now I will not be quoting anything from it.
    http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/299316_9a12b53f67554a008c32d48eff9be5cd.pdf

     
  23. TexRex

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    OH MY GOD, IT INSTANTLY ACCELERATES TO MACH 5 AND BEYOND!!!!!

    Wait, no, it's just...a lip.
     
  24. Dotini

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    With regard to Anderson Cooper's upper lip, it's all about the dog that didn't bark - the old Sherlock Holmes mystery.

    His lip does not sneer, does not curl, does not grin, does not giggle, does not laugh or mock. It remains perfectly sober and serious, almost somber.

    The sad fact is, the US Navy, the mainstream media including NYT and WaPo, and now even the venerable Popular Mechanics have all disclosed that UAP phenomena are real and remain unexplained. Some of these (WaPo or Politico?) have called for us to "just get used to it", the unexplained phenomena.

    I sometimes think it may actually be for the best to deny, ignore and mock to the limit of our abilities, but currently government and media seem to have other ideas. Indications are that very shortly there will be major new disclosures coming from the US government. These are said to be at least in part peer-reviewed analyses of "meta-materials" obtained from the phenomena. In the pipeline to be disclosed are affects of the phenomena on humans.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
  25. TexRex

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    An upper lip that does absolutely nothing remarkable is the only remarkable thing about the clip. Jiminy jillickers.
     
  26. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    Yes. Formerly, almost all media reporting on the phenomena has been done in jest, with grins, giggles and talk of little green men and aliens.
    Now the grins and giggles are disappearing, and there is no talk of aliens. A paradigm shift is taking place. But, in CIA parlance, it is a "limited hangout". Major areas of the topic remain under the highest levels of classification, and will stay that way.
     
  27. TexRex

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    Sounds like bunkum to me; the littlest things contorted into something that seems significant. Like this:

    Things not being discussed because there's nothing to discuss is obvious and boring, but shadowy figures having mandated things not be discussed is much more significant. This is one of the manners by which conspiracy theorists operate.
     
  28. Dotini

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    Private contractors like Robert Bigelow (TTSA, NIDS) who handle classified projects for the government are exempt from FOIA requests.
     
  29. TexRex

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    Cool?

    So if I suggest that Budget Suites of America hotels serve a dual purpose as government reprogramming facilities, he or a representative of his may respond with a "can neither confirm nor deny"; or I suppose they wouldn't respond at all, which definitely means I'm right and they're covering it up.

    Of course I'm not suggesting that, but if I were to, I'd hope you would take note of any changes in my behavior beginning shortly thereafter.
     
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  30. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    If you were to submit a FOIA request to the government regarding events, materials - anything - that had been contracted to Bigelow Aerospace or BAASS, that request would not be acted upon. But do the American people, or Congress, have a right to know? A tiny handful of Senators have received classified briefing on...something. Congress is being urged to investigate the matter on a deeper and wider basis. But so far, nothing doing.

    FYI...
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019