UAP and Skinwalker Ranch News and Discussion

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I think at this point, sadly we have to accept the truth:

If there was really something out there, do you really trump would have kept it to himself ?

If our country had kept UFO secrets for decades now, wouldn't you think trump would have blurped out something to all of us by now?!?
Yeeahh, but they said that about all the previous presidents as well and they all kept quiet. Kang and Kodos must have been holding rayguns to their heads all this time.

Fortunately for all their power to keep a lid on things they've not been able to keep the truth from leaking out to a few select people who know what's really going on and have YouTube channels to promote. Please like and subscribe. :lol:
 
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I think at this point, sadly we have to accept the truth:

If there was really something out there, do you really trump would have kept it to himself ?

If our country had kept UFO secrets for decades now, wouldn't you think trump would have blurped out something to all of us by now?!?

Yeeahh, but they said that about all the previous presidents as well and they all kept quiet. Kang and Kodos must have been holding rayguns to their heads all this time.

Fortunately for all their power to keep a lid on things they've not been able to keep the truth from leaking out to a few select people who know the real truth and have Youtube channels to promote. Please like and subscribe. :lol:

Thank you guys for your replies to what has been a controversial and poorly known topic.

After the New York Times revelations of November, 2017 and since, no literate person can doubt the existence of the UAP/UFO phenomena.

There remains the perplexing mystery of what exactly it is, the origin and purpose of it. No one on Earth at the present time I think knows the answer to this.

The governments of several countries around the world maintain agencies to quietly study this subject. I think Chile and France are among them. The US does too, and has recently been more forthcoming in admitting it, and this slow process of disclosure is very apt to continue and gain momentum in the very near future. Watch this space!

That unknown phenomena exist is a fact. But governments are wary of discussing it because of obvious reasons, military, social, political and religious. For instance, it is long thought that evangelical Christians in high positions in the US Air Force believe UFOs are demonic, and that to study them is tantamount to inviting Satan into our world. Their influence has dominated for many decades, but is thankfully drawing to a close.

US Presidents including Truman, Ford, Carter, Reagan and Clinton have discussed the topic while in office. Truman was forced to by events, the others did it voluntarily. Clinton and Obama discussed it after leaving office. Would-be President Hillary Clinton is very avid on the topic. Trump has acknowledged the phenomena exist, that US Navy pilots have encountered it, but he remains skeptical, likely for base political and religious reasons. Carter steamed into office openly determined to deal with the subject, But after being briefed he was seen weeping at his desk in the oval office, head in hands, and never touched the subject again while in office.

Naturally, I have my own opinions on the topic. These opinions are based on 56 years of study and several personal encounters with the phenomena.
The opinion I have held for the longest time was that they are natural weather/spaceweather phenomena, albeit sometimes curiously exhibiting a feral intelligence. I have considered the idea they are living plasma, or plasmoids. Experiments in labs have generated temporary plasmas which exhibit several but not all the typical characteristics of life.

The fact-checked revelations published extensively in America's leading newspaper of record, the New York Times, have forced me to reconsider my opinion.
 
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After the New York Times revelations of November, 2017 and since, no literate person can doubt the existence of the UAP/UFO phenomena.

I couldn't agree more. In fact until I looked closely to determine whether this aircraft is an F-102 or F-106, it was fair to consider it as an Unidentified Flying Object.

F-102.jpg
 
Thanks for your humorous contribution, Bob.

It was as serious as humorous. It illustrates the fact that what constitutes an "unidentified" object, flying or otherwise, is quite fuzzy. For another example, say someone sees a bright light in the sky and has no iea what it is. To that person, it's an unidentified flying (assuming it's moving) object. Someone else, perhaps with a pair of binoculars, can see that it's an airplane.
 
It was as serious as humorous. It illustrates the fact that what constitutes an "unidentified" object, flying or otherwise, is quite fuzzy. For another example, say someone sees a bright light in the sky and has no iea what it is. To that person, it's an unidentified flying (assuming it's moving) object. Someone else, perhaps with a pair of binoculars, can see that it's an airplane.

Bob, your points are acknowledged and fully accepted. However, for the purposes of this thread, the UAP/UFO phenomena discussed here refer to only that 5% to 10% of total sightings which cannot be identified after all possible misidentifications, hoaxes, weather, astronomical and other prosaic explanations have been eliminated. I look forward to your valued and continued participation in this thread. :)
 
Today, elsewhere in media such as Daily Mail or Fox, you will see or hear reports that "vehicles not made on Earth have been recovered", and note they are based on reporting by the New York Times. But that is not exactly correct. Below is the full updated text of today's fact-checked article in America's newspaper of record, The New York Times

(If you are interested in more, click on the link and the reader comments. Mr Blumenthal anwsers many questions that are not asked in the article.)

Either way, the reality we are living in today is larger than the reality of yesterday.

No Longer in Shadows, Pentagon’s U.F.O. Unit Will Make Some Findings Public
For over a decade, the program, now tucked inside the Office of Naval Intelligence, has discussed mysterious events in classified briefings.

The U.S. Navy has officially published previously released videos showing unexplained objects.CreditCredit...Department of Defense, via Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
By Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Kean

  • Published July 23, 2020Updated July 24, 2020, 8:10 a.m. ET

Despite Pentagon statements that it disbanded a once-covert program to investigate unidentified flying objects, the effort remains underway — renamed and tucked inside the Office of Naval Intelligence, where officials continue to study mystifying encounters between military pilots and unidentified aerial vehicles.

Pentagon officials will not discuss the program, which is not classified but deals with classified matters. Yet it appeared last month in a Senate committee report outlining spending on the nation’s intelligence agencies for the coming year. The report said the program, the Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon Task Force, was “to standardize collection and reporting” on sightings of unexplained aerial vehicles, and was to report at least some of its findings to the public every six months.

While retired officials involved with the effort — including Harry Reid, the former Senate majority leader — hope the program will seek evidence of vehicles from other worlds, its main focus is on discovering whether another nation, especially any potential adversary, is using breakout aviation technology that could threaten the United States.

Senator Marco Rubio, the Florida Republican who is the acting chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, told a CBS affiliate in Miami this month that he was primarily concerned about reports of unidentified aircraft over American military bases — and that it was in the government’s interest to find out who was responsible.

He expressed concerns that China or Russia or some other adversary had made “some technological leap” that “allows them to conduct this sort of activity.”

Mr. Rubio said some of the unidentified aerial vehicles over U.S. bases possibly exhibited technologies not in the American arsenal. But he also noted: “Maybe there is a completely, sort of, boring explanation for it. But we need to find out.”

In 2017, The New York Times disclosed the existence of a predecessor unit, called the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. Defense Department officials said at the time that the unit and its $22 million in funding had lapsed after 2012.

People working with the program, however, said it was still in operation in 2017 and beyond, statements later confirmed by the Defense Department.

The program was begun in 2007 under the Defense Intelligence Agency and was then placed within the office of the undersecretary of defense for intelligence, which remains responsible for its oversight. But its coordination with the intelligence community will be carried out by the Office of Naval Intelligence, as described in the Senate budget bill. The program never lapsed in those years, but little was disclosed about the post-2017 operations.

The Pentagon program’s previous director, Luis Elizondo, a former military intelligence official who resigned in October 2017 after 10 years with the program, confirmed that the new task force evolved from the advanced aerospace program.

“It no longer has to hide in the shadows,” Mr. Elizondo said. “It will have a new transparency.”

Mr. Elizondo is among a small group of former government officials and scientists with security clearances who, without presenting physical proof, say they are convinced that objects of undetermined origin have crashed on earth with materials retrieved for study.

For more than a decade, the Pentagon program has been conducting classified briefings for congressional committees, aerospace company executives and other government officials, according to interviews with program participants and unclassified briefing documents.

In some cases, earthly explanations have been found for previously unexplained incidents. Even lacking a plausible terrestrial explanation does not make an extraterrestrial one the most likely, astrophysicists say.

Mr. Reid, the former Democratic senator from Nevada who pushed for funding the earlier U.F.O. program when he was the majority leader, said he believed that crashes of objects of unknown origin may have occurred and that retrieved materials should be studied.

“After looking into this, I came to the conclusion that there were reports — some were substantive, some not so substantive — that there were actual materials that the government and the private sector had in their possession,” Mr. Reid said in an interview.

No crash artifacts have been publicly produced for independent verification. Some retrieved objects, such as unusual metallic fragments, were later identified from laboratory studies as man-made.

Eric W. Davis, an astrophysicist who worked as a subcontractor and then a consultant for the Pentagon U.F.O. program since 2007, said that, in some cases, examination of the materials had so far failed to determine their source and led him to conclude, “We couldn’t make it ourselves.”

The constraints on discussing classified programs — and the ambiguity of information cited in unclassified slides from the briefings — have put officials who have studied U.F.O.s in the position of stating their views without presenting any hard evidence.

Mr. Davis, who now works for Aerospace Corporation, a defense contractor, said he gave a classified briefing to a Defense Department agency as recently as March about retrievals from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”

Mr. Davis said he also gave classified briefings on retrievals of unexplained objects to staff members of the Senate Armed Services Committee on Oct. 21, 2019, and to staff members of the Senate Intelligence Committee two days later.

Committee staff members did not respond to requests for comment on the issue.

Public fascination with the topic of U.F.O.s has drawn in President Trump, who told his son Donald Trump Jr. in a June interview that he knew “very interesting” things about Roswell — a city in New Mexico that is central to speculation about the existence of U.F.O.s. The president demurred when asked if he would declassify any information on Roswell. “I’ll have to think about that one,” he said.

Either way, Mr. Reid said, more should be made public to clarify what is known and what is not. “It is extremely important that information about the discovery of physical materials or retrieved craft come out,” he said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/us/politics/pentagon-ufo-harry-reid-navy.html
 
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The question of UAP/UFO being real and here is now settled and in the past.

The Nimitz, Tic-Tac and Gimbal videos published by the NYT are by far the most watched, most discussed and most emailed in the history the NYT.

The question remains where they come from and what their purpose is. This is under study by the government but is classified.

IMHO, we can now take it that craft have been recovered and reverse engineering attempts have been made but to little effect. It is not at all established or even claimed that aliens or off-world manufacture are involved.

Much can be learned from this interview which has never been published in print.

 
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Continued reporting by the widely respected New York Times provides fact-checked discussion of materials possibly retrieved from UFOs.


Do We Believe in U.F.O.s? That’s the Wrong Question

Reporting on the Pentagon program that’s investigating unidentified flying objects is not about belief. It’s about a vigilant search for facts.

By Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Kean


Times Insider explains who we are and what we do, and delivers behind-the-scenes insights into how our journalism comes together.

We were part of The New York Times’s team (with the Washington correspondent Helene Cooper) that broke the story of the Pentagon’s long-secret unit investigating unidentified flying objects, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, in December 2017.

Since then, we have reported on Navy pilots’ close encounters with U.F.O.s, and last week, on the current revamped program, the Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon Task Force and its official briefings — ongoing for more than a decade — for intelligence officials, aerospace executives and Congressional staff on reported U.F.O. crashes and retrieved materials.

We’re often asked by well-meaning associates and readers, “Do you believe in U.F.O.s?” The question sets us aback as being inappropriately personal. Times reporters are particularly averse to revealing opinions that could imply possible reporting bias.

But in this case we have no problem responding, “No, we don’tbelieve in U.F.O.s.”

As we see it, their existence, or nonexistence, is not a matter of belief.

We admire what the great anthropologist Margaret Mead said when asked long ago whether she believed in U.F.O.s. She called it “a silly question,” writing in Redbook in 1974:

“Belief has to do with matters of faith; it has nothing to do with the kind of knowledge that is based on scientific inquiry. … Do people believe in the sun or the moon, or the changing seasons, or the chairs they’re sitting on? When we want to understand something strange, something previously unknown to anyone, we have to begin with an entirely different set of questions. What is it? How does it work?”

That’s what the Pentagon U.F.O. program has been focusing on, making it eminently newsworthy. And to be clear: U.F.O.s don’t mean aliens. Unidentified means we don’t know what they are, only that they demonstrate capabilities that do not appear to be possible through currently available technology.

In our reporting, we’ve focused on how the Department of Defense, the Office of Naval Intelligence and members of two Senate committees are engaged with this topic. Current officials are now concerned about the potential threat represented by the very real, advanced technological objects: how close they can come to our fighter jets, sometimes causing a near miss, and the risk that our adversaries may acquire the technology demonstrated by the objects before we do.

So if U.F.O.s are no longer a matter of belief, what are they and how do they do what they do?

And if technology has been retrieved from downed objects, what better way to try to understand how they work?

Our previous stories were relatively easy to document with Department of Defense videos of U.F.O.s and pilot eyewitness accounts backed up by Navy hazard reports of close encounters with small speeding objects.

But our latest article provided a more daunting set of challenges, since we dealt with the possible existence of retrieved materials from U.F.O.s. Going from data on a distant object in the sky to the possession of a retrieved one on the ground makes a leap that many find hard to accept and that clearly demands extraordinary evidence.

Numerous associates of the Pentagon program, with high security clearances and decades of involvement with official U.F.O. investigations, told us they were convinced such crashes have occurred, based on their access to classified information. But the retrieved materials themselves, and any data about them, are completely off-limits to anyone without clearances and a need to know.

28a3_ITT-articleLarge.jpg

The Pentagon’s U.F.O. Program has been using unclassified slides like this to brief government officials on threats from Advanced Aerospace Vehicles — “including off-world” — and materials retrieved from crashes of unidentified phenomena.Credit...Leslie Kean

We were provided a series of unclassified slides showing that the program took this seriously enough to include it in numerous briefings. One slide says one of the program’s tasks was to “arrange for access to data/reports/materials from crash retrievals of A.A.V.’s,” or advanced aerospace vehicles.

Our sources told us that “A.A.V.” does not refer to vehicles made in any country — not Russian or Chinese — but is used to mean technology in the realm of the truly unexplained. They also assure us that their briefings are based on facts, not belief.

Ralph Blumenthal was a Times reporter from 1964 to 2009. Leslie Kean has written a book and articles on U.F.O.s.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/28/insider/UFO-reporting.html


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And now Scientific American has something to say.

POLICY & ETHICS | OPINION
‘Unidentified Aerial Phenomena,’ Better Known as UFOs, Deserve Scientific Investigation

UAP are a scientifically interesting problem. Interdisciplinary teams of scientists should study them

UFOs have been back in the news because of videos initially leaked, and later confirmed, by the U.S. Navy and officially released by Pentagon that purportedly show "unidentified aerial phenomena" (UAP) in our skies. Speculations about their nature have run the gamut from mundane objects like birds or balloons to visitors from outer space.

It’s difficult, if not impossible, to say what these actually are, however, without context. What happened before and after these video snippets? Were there any simultaneous observations from other instruments, or sightings by pilots?

Judging the nature of these objects (and these seem to be “objects,” as confirmed by the Navy) needs a coherent explanation that should accommodate and connect all the facts of the events. And this is where interdisciplinary scientific investigation is needed.
The proposal to scientifically study UAP phenomena is not new. The problem of understanding such unexplained UAP cases drew interest by scientists during the 1960s, which resulted in the U.S. Air Force funding a group at the University of Colorado, headed by physicist Edward Condon, to study UAP from 1966 to 1968. The resulting Condon Report concluded that further study of UAP was unlikely to be scientifically interesting—a conclusion that drew mixed reactions from scientists and the public.

Concerns over the inadequacy of the methods used by the Condon Report culminated with a congressional hearing in 1968 as well as a debatesponsored by the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) in 1969 with participation by scholars such as Carl Sagan, J. Allen Hynek, James McDonald, Robert Hall and Robert Baker. Hynek was an astronomy professor at the Ohio State University and led the Project Blue Book investigation, while McDonald, who was a well-known meteorologist and a member of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) and AAAS, performed a thorough investigation of UAP phenomena. Sagan, a professor of astronomy at Cornell University, was one of the organizers of the AAAS debate. He dismissed the extraterrestrial hypothesis as unlikely but still considered the UAP subject worthy of scientific inquiry.
Recent UAP sightings, however, have so far failed to generate similar interest among the scientific community. Part of the reason could be the apparent taboo around UAP phenomena, connecting it to the paranormal or pseudoscience, while ignoring the history behind it. Sagan even wrote in the afterword of the 1969 debate proceedings about the “strong opposition” by other scientists who were “convinced that AAAS sponsorship would somehow lend credence to ‘unscientific’ ideas.” As scientists we must simply let scientific curiosity be the spearhead of understanding such phenomena. We should be cautious of outright dismissal by assuming that every UAP phenomena must be explainable.

Why should astronomers, meteorologists, or planetary scientists care about these events? Shouldn’t we just let image analysts, or radar observation experts, handle the problem? All good questions, and rightly so. Why should we care? Because we are scientists. Curiosity is the reason we became scientists. In the current interdisciplinary collaborative environment, if someone (especially a fellow scientist) approaches us with an unsolved problem beyond our area of expertise, we usually do our best to actually contact other experts within our professional network to try and get some outside perspective. The best-case outcome is that we work on a paper or a proposal with our colleague from another discipline; the worst case is that we learn something new from a colleague in another discipline. Either way, curiosity helps us to learn more and become scientists with broader perspectives.

So, what should be the approach? If a scientific explanation is desired, one needs an interdisciplinary approach to address the combined observational characteristics of UAP, rather than isolating one aspect of the event. Furthermore, UAP phenomena are not U.S.-specific events. They are a worldwide occurrence. Several other countries studied them. So shouldn’t we as scientists choose to investigate and curb the speculation around them?
A systematic investigation is essential in order to bring the phenomena into mainstream science. First, collection of hard data is paramount to establishing any credibility to the explanation of the phenomena. A rigorous scientific analysis is sorely needed, by multiple independent study groups, just as we do for evaluating other scientific discoveries. We, as scientists, cannot hastily dismiss any phenomenon without in-depth examination and then conclude the event itself is unscientific.

Such an approach would certainly not pass the “smell test” in our day-to-day science duties, so these kinds of arguments similarly should not suffice to explain UAP. We must insist on strict agnosticism. We suggest an approach that is purely rational: UAP represent observations that are puzzling and waiting to be explained. Just like any other science discovery.

The transient nature of UAP events, and hence the unpredictability about when and where the next event will happen, is likely one of the main reasons why UAP have not been taken seriously in science circles. But, how can one identify a pattern without systematically collecting the data in the first place? In astronomy, the observations (location and timing) of gamma-ray bursts (GRBs), supernovae and gravitational waves are similarly unpredictable. However, we now recognize them as natural phenomena arising from stellar evolution.
How did we develop detailed and complex mathematical models that could explain these natural phenomena? By a concerted effort from scientists around the world, who meticulously collected data from each occurrence of the event and systematically observed them. We still cannot predict when and where such astronomical events will occur in the sky.

But we understand to an extent the nature of GRBs, supernovae and gravitational waves. How? Because we have not dismissed the phenomena or the people who observed them. We studied them. Astronomers have tools, so they can share the data they collected, even if some question their claim. Similarly, we need tools to observe UAP; radar, thermal, and visual observations will be immensely helpful. We must repeat here that this is a global phenomenon. Perhaps some, or even most, UAP events are simply classified military aircraft, or strange weather formations, or other misidentified mundane phenomena. However, there are still a number of truly puzzling cases that might be worth investigating.
Of course, not all scientists need to make UAP investigation a part of their research portfolio. For those who do, discarding the taboo surrounding this phenomenon would help in developing interdisciplinary teams of motivated individuals who can begin genuine scientific inquiry.

A template to perform a thorough scientific investigation can be found in James McDonald’s paper “Science in Default.” While he entertains the conclusion that these events could be extraterrestrials (which we do not subscribe to), McDonald’s methodology itself is a great example of objective scientific analysis. And this is exactly what we as scientists can do to study these events.

As Sagan concluded at the 1969 debate, “scientists are particularly bound to have open minds; this is the lifeblood of science.” We do not know what UAP are, and this is precisely the reason that we as scientists should study them.

The views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the authors and are not necessarily those of NASA or their employers

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...own-as-ufos-deserve-scientific-investigation/
 
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Politico's Bryan Bender, who along with the New York Times broke that original story, provides context with his Pentagon Establishes New Task Force to Investigate UFOs. Bender includes quotes from Pentagon spokesperson Susan Gough that underscore the roles past and future of the Navy's "intelligence arm" in the ongoing study of unidentified aerial phenomena. Bender also features the role and positive reaction of former Advanced Aerial Threat Identification Program central figure Luis Elizondo.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/14/ufo-pentagon-task-froce-395683

Story as printed by The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/15/us-department-defense-ufo-taskforce

Comment:
The Pentagon is using the potential threat of UAP to nuclear and defense areas as justification for the investigation. Budgets are getting tight to get these days. However, to many this makes little sense because the phenomena seems to have been with us for at least 75 years, and possibly many thousands. The phenomena may be indifferent, just watching, or possibly involving itself to our benefit according to other viewpoints.
 
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...I've skimmed through the majority of this thread so can't be 100% sure if anyone hasn't brought up it yet, but here's my two cents.

Yes, "Unidentified Flying/Submerged Objects" are real, but the question is just how many of them are ETs intent on probing you in the rear and stealing away cows? I'd say... an extremely minuscule percentage, if any.

Maybe it's the cynic in me talking, but virtually everything has some sort of explanation to it. Scientific, optical illusion, just a good ol' internet prank, whatever, their existences can be explained in some ways.

I'm not dismissing the idea that ETs "may" have visited Earth - that would be a pretty entertaining notion in itself - but realistically speaking, a wide-ranging government cover-up over UFOs is as believable as flat earth theory to me.
 
...I've skimmed through the majority of this thread so can't be 100% sure if anyone hasn't brought up it yet, but here's my two cents.

Yes, "Unidentified Flying/Submerged Objects" are real, but the question is just how many of them are ETs intent on probing you in the rear and stealing away cows? I'd say... an extremely minuscule percentage, if any.

Maybe it's the cynic in me talking, but virtually everything has some sort of explanation to it. Scientific, optical illusion, just a good ol' internet prank, whatever, their existences can be explained in some ways.

I'm not dismissing the idea that ETs "may" have visited Earth - that would be a pretty entertaining notion in itself - but realistically speaking, a wide-ranging government cover-up over UFOs is as believable as flat earth theory to me.

Thank you for your contribution to the thread.

I agree with your skepticism that ET's are involved in the phenomena. And by phenomena, I include not only UFO/UAP sightings and encounters but also cattle mutilations and alleged abductions.

Here is a story about CIA simulated UFO abductions in Latin America as psychological experiment, with quotes from a very highly placed lifetime researcher of the phenomena.
https://www.collective-evolution.co...america-as-psychological-warfare-experiments/

Cattle mutilations may be motivated for epidemiological reasons, but there is also a considerable terror factor. There's been over 10,000 unsolved mutilations in the US, most without much in the way of evidence. Yet very occasionally footprints, medical instruments and pharmaceutical agents are found at the scene.

To sum up:
- The phenomena are a mystery worth investigating. Some world governments such as France and Chile have ongoing programs of study.
- There are many hypotheses of explanation, foremost of which in the public mind is ET, but I am very doubtful of this.
- The phenomena may be motivated by an agenda or purpose which is indifferent to mankind, simply watching mankind, or is helping mankind in some way. I do not see much evidence the phenomena is hostile to humanity.
- There is no currently acceptable hypothesis for the origin of the phenomena.
- IMHO, the consciousness factor is 100% key in making progress on understanding the phenomena. In other words, humans or human consciousness is a major factor in the purpose and origin of the phenomena.
- The US government has, over the past 70+ years, alternately released information and withheld it. Much of the data gathered has been passed on to private corporations to which FOIA does not apply.

Thanks again for your interest.
 
From the very beginning of the nuclear age, mysterious aircraft have been visiting and sometimes affecting operations at nuclear installations all over the US, and probably the world.

Here is a thorough current look at a famous 1975 case at Loring AFB, Maine.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-aerial-incursions-over-loring-air-force-base

Robert Hastings is the world's foremost researcher on the subject of UFO activity at nuclear sites.
His book UFOs and Nukes can be found on Amazon.
 
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Since November of 2017 interested people have been discussing the "five observables " of UAP as described by the New York Times and the TTSA. In the months to come, the 6th observable (and possibly the 7th and even the 8th) will come under discussion. The provenance of the phenomena may become clearer.

Although I have had several encounters and a lot of study, I really don't know the answers. But I share Jacques Vallée's opinion that the origin of the phenomena is far more interesting than visits by ET.


Unidentified Aerial Phenomena - scientific research
An examination of aspects of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) from a scientific perspective.

Friday, September 4, 2020

The seventh "observable"

The five "observables"

On a number of occasions, Luis Elizondo has mentioned that the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) identified five "observables" concerning Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP.) These are:

1. Sudden and instantaneous acceleration.

2. Hypersonic velocities without signatures.

3. Low observability.

4. Trans media travel.

5. Positive lift.

In a post dated 11 August 2020, US researcher Danny Silva, spoke about a sixth AATIP "observable," namely, biological effects on humans. I would like to add a seventh "observable, " i.e. the effects that UAP have on our own technology.

UAP effects on our technology

Motor vehicles

Perhaps the most well know piece of our technology which has been long associated with UAP effects, is the motor vehicle. A typical example is the following:

At 6.35pm, on 8 August 1971, near the town of Kadina, South Australia, a man was driving alone when he noted his surroundings were lit up by an orange hue. Suddenly, the car's engine stopped and the car's lights went out. He was unable to restart the engine so stopped the car. Getting out of the vehicle, he noted an object some 150 feet above the car. During this time he noted a buzzing/purring noise was constantly audible. The object then departed to the south east, after 2-3 minutes of remaining stationary above him. Before losing sight of it, he got back in the car and successfully restarted the engine.

In numerous other sightings, the engine, headlights, and radio of motor vehicles, have been affected. Perhaps, the classic collection of such cases is "UFO Reports Involving Vehicle Interference"authored by Mark Rodeghier, and published by the J Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, in 1981. This collection and analysis, studied several hundred such cases, which illustrate the diverse nature of effects on motor vehicles due to the close proximity of UAP.

Aircraft

The other piece of our technology which has been affected in some instances, are aircraft. One of the most comprehensive catalogues available, was compiled by French Researcher Dominique F. Weinstein, and published by the National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena, (NARCAP) in 2001. Weinstein's work features details of several hundred cases of sightings involving aircrews, between 1916 and 2000. About 14% of cases feature electromagnetic effects to equipment onboard the aircraft, involving "radios, radar, compasses, engines ..."

Weinstein and Richard Haines took a closer look at EMF effects on aircraft in another 2001 NARCAP study, titled "A Preliminary Study of Fifty Seven Pilot Sighting Reports Involving Alleged Electro-Magnetic Effects on Aircraft Systems."

Nuclear weapons



Image courtesy of Amazon Books

There have been a number of instances where nuclear missiles have reportedly been affected by UAP.. For example:


US researcher Robert Hastings has documented a number of these, including an incident around 1977 at Grand Forks Air Force Base in North Dakota, where a now retired USAF Missile Security Supervisor related that unidentified lights had interfered with their ability to communicate with the launch sites. No missile could have been launched if required.

Robert L Salas reported on his involvement with an incident at Malstrom Air Force Base, Montana in March 1967, where numerous nuclear missile warheads were reportedly deactivated, and UAP observed.


Other technology
In other cases involving UAP, there have been reported effects on numerous pieces of technology. For details of individual cases. I would recommend a viewing of the EMF category of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP) website. Cases go back to at least 24 June 1947:

"Prospector Fred M Johnson sighted five or six "round, metallic looking discs" 30 feet in diameter, with tails or fins. He got a better look at one when he focused his telescope on it. As the discs banked in the sun 1000 feet overhead, Johnson, was surprised to see his compass needle was weaving back and forth . It ceased doing so as soon as the UFOs, which were in view less than a minute, headed off toward the southwest." (Clark, J. 1992."The UFO Encyclopedia: Volume Two," Omnigraphics, Detroit, page 129.)

Deliberate or accidental?

The debate has always been as to whether the effects we notice, are due to a byproduct of UAP, e.g. as a side effect of say a propulsion system; or a deliberate targeting of our technology. The fact that not every close encounter between our technology and UAP results in effects, would seem to argue for the latter.

Have blog readers, any thoughts as to other "observables?"


By Keith Basterfield at September 04, 2020
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Labels: AATIP, AAWSA
corvoSeptember 4, 2020 at 10:34 AM
Yes, the 8th observable is the most important one.
Effect on our culture.
That has been first proposed by Vallee, with hi definition of Control system.
The apparitions of UFO are theater pieces to provoke changes in human society.

RRRGroupSeptember 4, 2020 at 1:59 PM
Objectively, UFOs have had little or no effect on human culture. I'd like to see an example of any effect -- an effect that matters.



September 5, 2020 at 11:41 AM
Thanks for mentioning in "UAP Task Force to be created".
I sent you manuals of official terms there, but apparently nobody wants to talk about that specifically (Update 9-4 / 2020) and the limitation of the DOD is to give "robot answers" to direct questions.
As the aerospace engineer and physicist Alexander G. Jackson said in "US Senate Select Committee report refers to Unidentified Aerial Phenomena".
And that is something that Susan Gough (Update above) made clear "Luis Elizondo here is a minor actor", for which I want to CALL LUIS ELIZONDO to reveal the secret of the AATIP of WHO WAS the author of what today everything the world cheerfully calls "Elizondo's Five Observables", and if he doesn't want to, let him BE HONEST and tell the truth: the definition doesn't belong to him.
HONESTY, first.
Second: the explanation about the five observables comes from a series of military videos, cut, recorded in + 4K-UHDV full-band multi-spectral capture, but presented to the public in 240 pixels and a single viewing frequency.
If those Nimitz videos were indeed "leaked", how could the person who leaked them have had time to edit them before extracting them from the military command data triple check system?.
At least a dozen military personnel are directly responsible for the custody, download, transfer and confidential storage of military mission command data, especially records that affect national security, as someone claims 240-pixel videos to be.
So if you define the five observables based on 240 Pixel videos, please! I don't want to think that we could define with the COMPLETE ORIGINAL VIDEOS.
Your questions about "other observables", I will answer you with some paragraphs of a report presented in 2001 to the United States Senate and Pentagon.
The report is titled "A new look at anomalies and events in areas of global military control." (Copyright-2DMF, Olivera, Randall, Sofía, Wallovsky, 1998).
"Humans are not perfect, their eyes are not, they cannot observe the Sun, the darkness, through a storm of dust or snow, or beyond the clouds, not under water, with high or low temperature, If you get emotional and cry or if you have anger and only focus on one thing or if you are afraid and everything is careful, your eyes will observe a part of reality. "
"The governments decided that they can observe everything that happens in their territories, but this is false, they only observe what their human eyes and their limited technology allow them to do."
"Today in few places a command officer can observe the shape of an object based on the capture of the sound it produces, or the displacement of atmospheric flow in its environment as it moves through the air according to the pressure waves it generates, or how many and which frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum affect and are affected by an atmospheric Anomaly or an Event of artificial origin manufactured or not by human hands ".
"If you go along the sidewalk in front of your house, you, a military officer, United States Senator or Presidential Advisor, can observe the void field left by that person who passes by your side, displaces the surrounding atmosphere creating a gentle breeze What hits your face? No, you can't, neither can a trained pilot moving inside an F14 when an A&E crosses his field of vision. "
"" Observe "is not about" looking "or" seeing ", it is about capturing the underlying information before, during and after the fact," observing "is the synthetic way of presenting the data, obtained by multiple sources that act as systemic way. "Observe" is a synonym for "understand the how," something for which technology is at least half a century out of date. "

September 7, 2020 at 4:17 AM
How did you get that paper?, I understand that it is classified.



September 6, 2020 at 6:48 PM
I certainly would be happy to see an "EMF efects" category included. This would have sub-categories for Land (fixed and mobile), Sea and Air as we have much documented evidence to support this.

As the likley propulsion systems are likely to be electromagnetic or electrogravimetric there would be a resultant very high EMF around the object. I therefore come down very strongly on the side that it is "accidental" effects rather than deliberate. Although it is still possible to use the side-effect deliberately once once it is understood how it effect Earth-based systems.
https://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com/2020/09/the-seventh-observable.html
 
Japan orders military pilot to reports UFO sightings.
https://www.dw.com/en/japan-orders-military-pilots-to-report-ufo-sightings/a-55081061

snippet
"Japan is one of the very few places in the world where four tectonic plates meet and there is a high level of volcanic activity," said Sullivan, claiming that UFO activity is often found around volcanoes.

comment:
My state of Washington has a vivid history of sightings around Mt Rainier (active volcano) and Mt Adams (potentially active).
The first notorious sighting after WWII was the Kenneth Arnold incident, taking place between the two volcanoes, and which gave rise to the term "flying saucer".

Another location where the phenomena is persistent over decades is Hessdalen, Norway.
 
Rare peer-reviewed paper on the UFO subject.
https://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/21/10/939/htm

Comment: It's rare enough to find peer reviewed material on this topic, so I won't complain too loudly. However, I do have a concern that the conclusion call for further study by (only physical?) scientists. I would widen the academic scope of study to include logic and metaphysics.

Abstract
Several Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) encountered by military, commercial, and civilian aircraft have been reported to be structured craft that exhibit ‘impossible’ flight characteristics. We consider a handful of well-documented encounters, including the 2004 encounters with the Nimitz Carrier Group off the coast of California, and estimate lower bounds on the accelerations exhibited by the craft during the observed maneuvers. Estimated accelerations range from almost 100g to 1000s of gs with no observed air disturbance, no sonic booms, and no evidence of excessive heat commensurate with even the minimal estimated energies. In accordance with observations, the estimated parameters describing the behavior of these craft are both anomalous and surprising. The extreme estimated flight characteristics reveal that these observations are either fabricated or seriously in error, or that these craft exhibit technology far more advanced than any known craft on Earth. In many cases, the number and quality of witnesses, the variety of roles they played in the encounters, and the equipment used to track and record the craft favor the latter hypothesis that these are indeed technologically advanced craft. The observed flight characteristics of these craft are consistent with the flight characteristics required for interstellar travel, i.e., if these observed accelerations were sustainable in space, then these craft could easily reach relativistic speeds within a matter of minutes to hours and cover interstellar distances in a matter of days to weeks, proper time.
Keywords: UAP; UAV; UFO; Nimitz; Tic-Tac
4. Conclusions
It is difficult to draw any definitive conclusions at this point regarding the nature and origin of these UAVs other than the fact that we have shown that these objects cannot be of any known aircraft or missiles using current technology. We have characterized the accelerations of several UAVs and have demonstrated that if they are craft then they are indeed anomalous, displaying technical capabilities far exceeding those of our fastest aircraft and spacecraft. It is not clear that these objects are extraterrestrial in origin, but it is extremely difficult to imagine that anyone on Earth with such technology would not put it to use. Even though older sightings are less reliable, observations of seemingly similar UAPs go back to well before the era of flight [1]. Collectively, these observations strongly suggest that these UAVs should be carefully studied by scientists [9,10,11,12,13].
Unfortunately, the attitude that the study of UAVs (UFOs) is “unscientific” pervades the scientific community, including SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) [34], which is surprising, especially since efforts are underway to search for extraterrestrial artifacts in the solar system [35,36,37,38,39], particularly, on the Moon, Mars, asteroids [40], and at Earth-associated Lagrange points. Ironically, such attitudes inhibit scientific study, perpetuating a state of ignorance about these phenomena that has persisted for well over 70 years, which is now especially detrimental, since answers are presently needed [41,42,43,44,45,46].

In other news, a documentary long in the making - The Phenomenon, by James Fox - is released which purports hard physical evidence analyzed at Stanford School of Medicine to be not of this Earth.
...revisitation of the 1966 Westall school incident in Australia, and the 1994 Ariel school event in Zimbabwe, are cases in point. Both are examples of close encounters involving dozens of witnesses. In both cases, the narrative clearly transcends the common storyline of aliens from another solar system dropping by for some kind of research purpose. James has managed to bring back the direct witnesses of these events, decades later, and re-interview them with the insights of today. This was just about what I had wished someone would do; and he did it.

The most significant part of the movie is—without a doubt, in my mind—the examination, at the Stanford School of Medicine, of metal samples collected from alleged UFO visitation sites by respected researcher Dr. Jacques Vallée, over decades of investigation. This is the much hoped-for hard evidence. An analysis of the atomic structure of these samples was conducted with a state-of-the-art ion beam microscope, which yielded surprising results: the isotope ratios in these samples are unlike anything known to occur on Earth. Such a finding may sound too highbrow to be significant—especially in light of the much more incredible claims routinely made in this field by suspicious characters—but it certainly is. In fact, my only criticism against the film is that James—perhaps in a concession to mainstream tastes and expectations—hardly explores the finding in the final cut. The subject was left behind just as I thought we were warming up to it. Perhaps we will read more about it in academic publications, but I confess to have been annoyed at the brevity of the coverage of what was perhaps the one truly new news in this film.

Metaphysical significance greater than science significance?
As a matter of fact, although UFO and close encounter cases have obvious scientific significance, I believe they have even more metaphysical significance. I say this because the phenomenon seems to defy not only the limits of our technology, but also the laws of physics and—even more significantly—the laws of logic. Many of these reports are absurd, their very absurdity speaking to the sincerity of the witnesses and the courage of those who are now making the hard evidence available, as well as acknowledging the bewilderment of the highest instances of government. The Phenomenon does include what many of you will consider headline-making new admissions by well-known, high-ranking government officials and politicians. But for me this is not the cream; the cream is how the cases reported consistently instantiate the seemingly absurd features I discussed in my book, Meaning in Absurdity, where I cover the UFO and contact phenomena from an angle you are certainly not used to: nonsensical flight paths and movements, weird angles of attack in flight, alleged telepathic communications more akin to spiritual experiences than encounters with explorers from another planet, illogical behavior on the part of the 'visitors,' etc. There is much food for thought in there.
https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2020/10/the-phenomenon-brief-review.html

Edit:
The Guardian reports on the documentary Phenomenon.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/oct/07/the-phenomenon-ufos-james-fox-documentary

Edit 2:
I have added a very short list of the most essential and basic reading to the OP.
 
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Today we have four offerings to consider and enjoy.


1) They flew above the atmosphere at speeds over Mach 10. They hovered over nuclear installations for at least 9 years and glowed blue. They jammed radar and interceptor's nav systems.
Over the decades Tehran has built three major nuclear facilities that could, in theory, be used to assemble atomic weapons: reactors at Bushehr and Arak and an enrichment plant at Natanz. This infrastructure became public knowledge in 2002. No doubt the CIA took a strong interest. “A number of reconnaissance UAVs were sent to collect intelligence to prepare for a possible attack” by Western forces, Taghvaee writes.

To protect the nuke facilities, in 2004 Iran deployed a task force composed of eight F-4E fighters and eight F-14s plus a former 707 airliner and a C-130 cargo plane outfitted with sensors and radios for command and control. The task force encountered what it believed were CIA drones with “astonishing flight characteristics.”

The UAVs could jam radars and disrupt interceptors’ navigation systems. They flew “outside the atmosphere” at speeds of up to Mach 10. They could hover. Flying at night, they emitted a telltale blue light that led to their nickname: “luminous objects.”

“In several cases … F-14s faced them but were unable to operate their armament systems properly,” Taghvaee writes. One Tomcat taking off to intercept a luminous object on Jan. 26, 2012 mysteriously exploded, killing both crewmen. Taghvaee implies the alleged UAV was somehow responsible, as the F-14 in question was “one of the fittest” of the 40 or so Tomcats then in service.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/f-14s-versus-ufos-in-iran-b9bded1d2580
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/r...snooping-around-its-nuclear-facilities-171362



2) A somewhat skeptical look at the Tic-Tac videos and other historic encounters with the unknown.




3) Ariel School Encounter at Zimbabwe involving scores of children of various ages and backgrounds, also Westall School Incident in Australia




4) Scientific expedition set to track UAP south of Catalina Island.
...UAPx expedition, which involves military veterans, physicists, as well as research scientists and trained observers. They want to provide unassailable scientific evidence that UAP objects are real, findable and knowable.


UAP expedition
Working with Ailleris to employ satellite imagery to detect and monitor UAPs is Kevin Knuth, a former scientist with NASA's Ames Research Center in California's Silicon Valley. He is now an associate professor of physics at the University at Albany in New York.

"We are looking into using satellites to monitor the region of ocean south of Catalina Island where the 2004 Nimitz encounters occurred," Knuth said, referring to UAP sightings reported by pilots and radar operators based aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz.


That area will also be the target for a 2021 UAP expedition carried out by Knuth and other researchers. The goal of the outing is "to provide unassailable scientific evidence that UAP objects are real, UAP objects are findable and UAP objects are knowable," according to the website for the project, which is called UAPx.


The UAPx team includes military veterans and physicists, as well as research scientists and trained observers that will use specialized gear to observe any would-be UAP.


"We are hoping to detect UAPs, determine their characteristics, flight patterns and any patterns in activity that will allow us to study them more effectively," Knuth told Space.com. "In addition to monitoring a region for UAPs, we are also looking into using satellites to obtain independent
confirmation of prominent UAP sightings and to obtain quantifiable information about those UAPs."


Science problem
"I certainly think that UAP deserve to be studied, just like we would do with any other problem in science," said Jacob Haqq-Misra, an astrobiologist with the Blue Marble Space Institute of Science in Seattle, Washington.

In August, Haqq-Misra helped organize a NASA-sponsored interdisciplinary workshop, called TechnoClimes 2020, that sought to prioritize and guide future theoretical and observational studies of non-radio "technosignatures" — that is, observational manifestations of technology, particularly those that could be detected through astronomical or other means.


Haqq-Misra said his knowledge regarding UAPs stems from the public domain, such as the recently released Navy videos and Department of Defense comments. But otherwise, he has not conducted any of his own investigations into the problem.


"I also remain agnostic as to any particular hypothesis that might explain UAP, at least until we have more data to consider," Haqq-Misra said. "The non-human intelligence hypothesis is a popular one, but I don't necessarily have any indication that it is more probable than any other hypothesis at this point."
https://www.space.com/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-scientific-scrutiny?__twitter_impression=true
 
Lengthy paper discusses technology, threats and origins of UFO phenomena.

Executive Summary

In June 2020, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence unveiled the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force (UAPTF) at the Office of Naval Intelligence—a successor to the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP). This paper dives down the rabbit hole with Defense Department insiders, scientists, and declassified material to find answers to a host of questions: Are mystery craft near-peer adversary platforms or exotic US platforms? What is the technology behind them? What kind of threat do they pose? What are the geostrategic implications? And what are we not being told?

https://besacenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/183-Milburn-study-final.pdf

UAPTF update.
https://www.thedebrief.org/fast-movers-and-transmedium-vehicles-the-pentagons-uap-task-force/

You tell me.
 
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An "extraordinary photograph" of a triangle UFO with bright lights on the corners which rose from the ocean and shot up into space was widely circulated in the intelligence community, and a few politicians, and will likely be released/leaked fairly soon to the public. That makes three shapes, tic-tac, cube and now triangle objects whose origin appears to be the ocean. Perhaps there is a crypto civilization native to Earth living underwater?

The story is published in the Washington Examiner

Confirmed: Navy's previously unreported 2019 Triangle UFO incident
by Tom Rogan, Commentary Writer |

| December 02, 2020 10:52 AM

The Debrief’s Tim McMillan gave us the most detailed look yet at the Pentagon’s ongoing research of unidentified flying objects, UFOs, or what the government refers to as “unidentified aerial phenomena.” Publicly announced earlier this year, the “Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force” is run out of the Office of Naval Intelligence. Its mission is to detect, analyze, and catalog UFOs.

I can confirm the accuracy of McMillan’s story, the previously unreported Navy UFO encounter in late 2019, and his description of task force intelligence reports from 2018 and 2020. And that the government has been unable to positively identify the UFOs recorded on video by naval aviators in 2004 and 2015. Those videos were first published in a 2017New York Times article and officially released by the Navy this year.

McMillan correctly notes that the 2018 task force report “expressly stated that the potential for UAP to be ‘alien’ or ‘non-human’ technology was of legitimate consideration.” That report included photos taken by naval aviators on their personal cellphone cameras, which appear to show a cube-like UFO of the kind aviators described in the 2015 video-recorded incident.

It is the 2020 report, however, which is most striking. Shared very widely across the civilian and military intelligence community, it includes an extraordinary photograph taken in late 2019 of a triangle-shaped UFO. The photograph was taken by a F/A-18F fighter jet operating off the U.S. East Coast. According to the report, the Triangle UFO rose out of the Atlantic Ocean and rapidly accelerated out of sight on a vertical axis. I believe, but have been unable to confirm, that the aircrew responsible for the photo were operating off either the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower or the USS John C. Stennis.

This is big news, or should be, for four reasons.

First, it confirms the ongoing presence of UFOs proximate to the Navy’s nuclear-powered aircraft carriers. These UFOs are apparently powered by unconventional non-jet based flight propulsion systems, exhibiting no exhaust trails, and are capable of rapidly navigating water, air, and space. No nation or corporation has been shown to possess, let alone manifest, such advanced engineering. As an extension, the reports reinforce the classified assessment that there is an unknown connection between naval nuclear reactors and proximate UFO activity.

Third, the previously unreported Triangle UFO incident adds a third design form to the portfolio of “Tic-Tac” and “Cube” form UFOs seen by naval aviators in 2004 and 2015. It’s worth noting here that triangle-shaped UFOs closely matching the one referenced in the 2020 report have been reported by witnesses in U.S. airspace for many decades.

Finally, the 2020 report carried a heavy focus on underwater operating UFOs, or what the government calls “Unidentified Submersible Phenomena.” McMillan rightly notes that the Navy is particularly loath to discuss this element of the phenomenon, fearing that doing so will compromise the operation of highly classified Navy acoustic sensor networks. As I’ve reported, another motive for the government’s secrecy here is the apparent ability of some UFOs to travel underwater at speeds of hundreds of knots or more per hour. Combining that factor with the UFOs' means of and apparent propensity for occasionally closing with nuclear-powered submarines has the Navy reasonably concerned.

Namely, that the silent service isn’t running as silent as the admirals would like to admit. And that China or Russia must not be able to replicate this technology. Such a development would shred the credibility and very function of U.S. nuclear deterrent forces, of which ballistic missile submarines are supposed to be the most survivable linchpin. In turn, and in a noticeable distinction with the record-report approach of its surface warfare colleagues, the submarine force prefers to write off undersea sensor detections as anomalies (as I found during a June interview with the admiral commanding U.S. submarine forces).

Where does this leave us?

As usual for this subject, with many more questions than answers.

But we should welcome the intelligence community’s effort to share UFO-related reporting more widely. And we should support efforts, such as that of Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Sen. Marco Rubio, to declassify more UFO-related reporting.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...viously-unreported-2019-triangle-ufo-incident

https://thedebrief.org/former-cia-director-says-we-should-be-open-minded-about-ufos/

MSM interview with Mr Rogan.
 
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There's a history of UAP phenomena dropping molten metal. The 1947 Maury Island incident, the 1980 Rendlesham Forest incident, and the Cash-Landrum incident of 1980 are among the most well-known.

Below is a 2004 Long Beach PD video which shows what it's like. Once you've witnessed such phenomena close up for an extended period of time, it changes your worldview. Without personal experience, irreproducible phenomena can be very difficult to accept as real.

 
Without personal experience, irreproducible phenomena can be very difficult to accept as real.

As they should be. Even with personal experience, irreproducible phenomena should be viewed with great skepticism. The human systems of perception are a cobbled together mish-mash of stuff to try and keep us away from hungry tigers long enough to sprout crotch fruit. There are innumerable examples of visual illusions where the normal human perception simply doesn't correctly identify what's going on.

This is why science exists. On top of the aforementioned perception problems, humans are also garbage at being objective and rational. Objectively and rationally, spotting one weird thing in the night sky does not equal aliens. But here we are.
 
As they should be. Even with personal experience, irreproducible phenomena should be viewed with great skepticism. The human systems of perception are a cobbled together mish-mash of stuff to try and keep us away from hungry tigers long enough to sprout crotch fruit. There are innumerable examples of visual illusions where the normal human perception simply doesn't correctly identify what's going on.

This is why science exists. On top of the aforementioned perception problems, humans are also garbage at being objective and rational. Objectively and rationally, spotting one weird thing in the night sky does not equal aliens. But here we are.

Thanks for your post. It's an often visited but seldom replied-to thread. I agree with your remarks but also think they would be more apposite in the Aliens thread. This thread discusses the UAP/UFO phenomena, which of course is acknowledged by the New York Times and the US Navy as very real and very important to study.

As a result of the recent Congressional passage of the 2021 US Federal budget, by law both public and classified government UAP phenomena reports will be issued on a 180 day basis.

edit:
https://thedebrief.org/uap-task-force-set-in-motion-with-passage-of-intelligence-authorization-act/
 
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According to the reporting, extremely clear photography of a large triangular object with lights at the corners rising from the Atlantic and accelerating vertically was widely shared within the US congressional, intelligence and military communities. Likely this photo will be leaked at some point. But it seems officials are very confused and probably want to hold on to what little they know.

In an exclusive feature for The Debrief, U.S. military and intelligence officials, as well as Pentagon emails, offer an unprecedented glimpse behind the scenes of what’s currently going on with The Pentagon’s investigation into UFOs, or as they term them, “Unidentified Aerial Phenomena” (UAP).

For the last two years, the Department of Defense’s newly revamped “Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force” (or UAPTF) has been busy briefing lawmakers, Intelligence Community stakeholders, and the highest levels of the U.S. military on encounters with what they say are mysterious airborne objects that defy conventional explanations.

Along with classified briefings, multiple senior U.S. officials with direct knowledge of the matter say two classified intelligence reports on UAP have been widely distributed to the U.S. intelligence community. Numerous sources from various government agencies told The Debrief that these reports include clear photographic evidence of UAP. The reports also explicitly state that the task force is considering the possibility that these unidentified objects could, as stated by one source from the U.S. intelligence community, be operated by “intelligences of unknown origin.”

Significantly, a retired U.S. Air Force brigadier general and head of RAND corporation’s Space Enterprise Initiative has — for the first time — gone on record to discuss some of the most likely explanations for UAP. His responses were surprising.

All sources interviewed by The Debrief confirmed that the task force issued an updated second UAP position report later in the summer of this year. Like the first, officials say this recent intelligence report was very widely distributed and shared amongst the intelligence community.

“It went viral,” said one intelligence official who had read the report.
https://thedebrief.org/fast-movers-and-transmedium-vehicles-the-pentagons-uap-task-force

triangle_photo.jpg

Artist’s recreation of the image as described in the UAPTF Intelligence Report issued in 2020 (Image by Dave Beaty of The Nimitz Encounters, 2020).
Overwhelmingly, everyone The Debrief spoke with said the most striking feature of the recently released UAPTF intelligence position report was the inclusion of a new and “extremely clear” photograph of an unidentifiable triangular aircraft.

The photograph, which is said to have also been taken from inside the cockpit of a military fighter jet, depicted an apparent aerospace vehicle described as a large equilateral triangle with rounded or “blunted” edges and large, perfectly spherical white “lights” in each corner. Officials who had seen it said the image was captured in 2019 by an F/A-18 fighter pilot.

Two officials that received the report said the photo was taken after the triangular craft emerged from the ocean and began to ascend straight upwards at a 90-degree angle. It was indicated that this event occurred off the eastern coast of the United States. Several other sources confirmed the photo’s existence; however, they declined to provide any further specifics of the incident.

Officials who read the recent report say it primarily focused on “Unidentified Submersible Phenomena,” or unidentified “transmedium” vehicles capable of operating both underwater and in the air.

------

It is the 2020 report, however, which is most striking. Shared very widely across the civilian and military intelligence community, it includes an extraordinary photograph taken in late 2019 of a triangle-shaped UFO. The photograph was taken by a F/A-18F fighter jet operating off the U.S. East Coast. According to the report, the Triangle UFO rose out of the Atlantic Ocean and rapidly accelerated out of sight on a vertical axis.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...viously-unreported-2019-triangle-ufo-incident
 
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I'm gonna need more than a photo, and it's gonna need to be in HD, close up, and with no obnoxious camera shake.
 
So, no source except faith? Okay then.
The source of the phenomena, age-old as it is, has never been identified. According to these latest reports, it may be from under the ocean. But taking everything into consideration from the very first reports to the most recent, the human factor seems inescapable. So maybe you are right and the source is faith. I'd put my money on consciousness.
 
I'm gonna need more than a photo, and it's gonna need to be in HD, close up, and with no obnoxious camera shake.
It's not even a photo. It's a drawing somebody did based on someone else's description. Thus putting the "out there" into "the truth is out there", in my opinion.
 

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