Russian Invasion of Ukraine

  • Thread starter Rage Racer
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The threat of war has prompted Merkel and Hollande to offer a peace deal, with more discussion to come over the weekend. I predict the US and Ukraine will opt for war instead.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31185027#

Joe Biden attended the meeting, but he and our puppet Poroshenko seemed uninterested, likely putting their personal interests ahead of other considerations.
http://original.antiwar.com/kevin-b...-agree-avoid-the-historic-tragedy-of-ukraine/

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko is identified in State Department documents as an informant for the US since 2006. The documents describe him as "[o]ur Ukraine (OU) insider Petro Poroshenko." The State Department documents also report that Poroshenko is "tainted by credible corruption allegations."
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After the U.S.-supported coup, Vice President Joe Biden‘s son, Hunter Biden, and a close friend of Secretary of State John Kerry, Devon Archer, the college roommate of the secretary of state’s stepson, have joined the board of Ukrainian gas producer Burisma Holdings, Ukraine’s largest independent gas producer by volume.
 
What a clown. He's trying to prove the Russian invasion by showing some bunch of passports. Is he aware that Russian soldiers do not carry passports? :lol: I don't know such an army where soldiers do.
bE6QioUm2P0.jpg
 
Somewhat off-topic, I've spent the last couple hours reading articles about Russia's vast pollution problem, particularly nuclear waste. Very interesting. Now, I know the US has its pollution problems but Russia is on another level. The government seems to simply not care about anything.
 
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Rage Racer
What a clown. He's trying to prove the Russian invasion by showing some bunch of passports.
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Who is it, then? You have repeatedly and vehemently denied that it's the Russians, but you are yet to explain how the rebels are getting support from a foreign power.
 
prisonermonkeys
And the impolite term?
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That would depend very much upon whether you are for total war or something more resembling peace.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/06/vladimir-putin-west-divisions-war-ukraine
Fear of Vladimir Putin grows in EU capitals amid spectre of ‘total war’
Analysis: That Angela Merkel has gone to Moscow speaks to the sudden gravity of the situation in east Ukraine


President Vladimir Putin with Chancellor Angela Merkel and President François Hollande in Moscow for an urgent meeting over Ukraine. Photograph: Alexander Zemlianichenko/AP
Ian Traynor, Europe editor

Friday 6 February 2015 11.12 EST

In Brussels and other European capitals, the fear of Vladimir Putin is becoming palpable. The mood has changed in a matter of weeks from one of handwringing impotence over Ukraine to one of foreboding.

The anxiety is encapsulated in the sudden rush to Moscow by Angela Merkel and François Hollande. To senior figures closely involved in the diplomacy and policymaking over Ukraine, the Franco-German peace bid is less a hopeful sign of a breakthrough than an act of despair.

“There’s nothing new in their plan, just an attempt to stop a massacre,” said one senior official.

Carl Bildt, the former Swedish foreign minister, said a war between Russia and the west was now quite conceivable. A senior diplomat in Brussels, echoing the broad EU view, said arming the Ukrainians would mean war with Russia, a war that Putin would win.

Anti-NATO protesters march in Munich.


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Edit: Ukraine's currency has collapsed 50% in the last two days.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-currency-has-fallen-50-percent-in-two-days/
 
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prisonermonkeys
Who is it, then? You have repeatedly and vehemently denied that it's the Russians, but you are yet to explain how the rebels are getting support from a foreign power.
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Explaining.
'Invasion' is when your country gets attacked by regular military forces of another country. When you fight a rebellion in your own regions, even if it's being aided by foreign volunteers, it is called 'civil war'.
 
Rage Racer
Explaining.
'Invasion' is when your country gets attacked by regular military forces of another country. When you fight a rebellion in your own regions, even if it's being aided by foreign volunteers, it is called 'civil war'.
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You do realize that Russian forces repeatedly have entered Ukrainian territory, or is that just another hoax made up by Western Media/NATO?
 
After failing to consolidate the ambitous coup d'etat and revolution, and now seeing Ukraine divested of Crimea and major parts of Luhansk and Donetsk, Poroshenko finally says he's ready for an immediate and unconditional cease fire. Too bad, but he will not be so lucky as that. Once the Debaltseve pocket is sewn up and a land bridge won through Mariupol to Crimea, Putin may, repeat may, agree to negotiate.

http://www.dw.de/poroshenko-ukraine-ready-for-unconditional-ceasefire/a-18242959
 
Dennisch
You do realize that Russian forces repeatedly have entered Ukrainian territory... ?
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You're saying this like you were there and saw them personally.
OK, where and when? How many? I'd like to see the details. And sources, if possible.

unit-one
Just stumbled upon this article from 2008...

KUHNER: Will Russia-Ukraine be Europe’s next war?
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Just remember the story of ArmA 2. That Chernarus country reminds of something... :sly:

P.S. Interesting article, BTW. Gangster state, huh...
 
Rage Racer
You're saying this like you were there and saw them personally.
OK, where and when? How many? I'd like to see the details. And sources, if possible.
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Start on the NATO website, they surely must have some credibility.

But before you do that you should get rid of your Russian colored blindfold. It's getting hilarious how you are denying Russia's involvement in Ukraine. If I recall correctly Russia annexed a piece of land belonging to Ukraine not so long ago.

See?
 
Dennisch
Start on the NATO website, they surely must have some credibility.

But before you do that you should get rid of your Russian colored blindfold. It's getting hilarious how you are denying Russia's involvement in Ukraine. If I recall correctly Russia annexed a piece of land belonging to Ukraine not so long ago.

See?
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Dear Dennisch, I would respectfully suggest that if you seek peace rather than war, a means must be found to accommodate the existential interests of all parties. IMO, to unsubtly demonize Putin and Russia as monster and invader is, in effect, to choose the path of confrontation and war.
 
Dotini
Dear Dennisch, I would respectfully suggest that if you seek peace rather than war, a means must be found to accommodate the existential interests of all parties. IMO, to unsubtly demonize Putin and Russia as monster and invader is, in effect, to choose the path of confrontation and war.
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Oh no. That's not how I meant it. I really care very little about the whole situation. It's just that in this day and age you can not deny stuff as if the Iron Curtain is still up. Hell, Putin can annex the whole of the Ukraine as long as they don't deny their involvement. It's just silly.
 
Dennisch
Oh no. That's not how I meant it. I really care very little about the whole situation. It's just that in this day and age you can not deny stuff as if the Iron Curtain is still up. Hell, Putin can annex the whole of the Ukraine as long as they don't deny their involvement. It's just silly.
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Yes, it is clear to see that Russia is involved to the hilt, literally as if her life depended upon it. When cornered, they will fight hard and go for the throat. It is up to us now to respond rationally and maturely in such a way that the worst outcomes are avoided. Seek friendship with Rage Racer.
 
Rage Racer
Explaining.
'Invasion' is when your country gets attacked by regular military forces of another country. When you fight a rebellion in your own regions, even if it's being aided by foreign volunteers, it is called 'civil war'.
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I have another word for it: 'semantics'.

If Russia is aiding 'foreign volunteers' (which could easily be interpreted as Russian servicemen who volunteered to join the army), be it through the provision of weapons, training, soldiers and/or sanctuary (it's extremely likely that the people responsible for the MH17 shoot down are hiding in Russia), then they bear responsibility for the events in eastern Ukraine.
 
The Yatsenyuk - Poroshenko junta is not doing terribly well at the moment:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...ests-journalist-call-dodge-draft#.VNgAqGfQpvZ

KIEV – Ukraine’s security service arrested a journalist on treason charges Sunday after he posted a video online urging people to dodge the country’s new military draft, his wife and officials said.

Ruslan Kotsaba — a television journalist from the western region of Ivano-Frankivsk — was ordered held in custody for 60 days pending investigations, his wife, Uliana, wrote on Facebook.

A senior official at Ukraine’s SBU security agency, Markian Lubkivskyi, wrote online that Kotsaba was detained on suspicion of treason, an accusation that carries a possible 15-year jail sentence.

Kotsaba published a video on YouTube last month denouncing a new round of military call-ups by Kiev to boost its forces fighting pro-Russian rebels in the east.

“I would prefer to go to prison than to participate in this fratricidal war,” Kotsaba said in the footage, which was viewed more than 300,000 times.

“I refuse to be drafted and call on everyone who is called up to refuse,” he said.

After 10 months of conflict, opinion is split in war-weary Ukraine over the latest government plan to mobilize around 50,000 men.


A senior official has admitted that almost 40 percent of men called up to serve in Kotsaba’s home region have left Ukraine.

 
http://rt.com/news/230459-donetsk-explosion-ukraine-shelling/

A chemical and ammunition plant controlled by rebels in Donetsk exploded last night. Kiev's anti-terrorist spokesman said it must have been an accident, however the rebels say it was hit by Ukrainian artillery and a couple members of Ukraine's own parliament also confirmed this. It is not the first time the plant has been hit by Ukrainian artillery, either. The artillery argument is supported by video which shows several smaller explosions before a large one, apparently the result of a direct hit.





So Ukraine's anti-terrorism movement is caught lying again.
 
There are rumors that 5000 Ukraine troops are trapped in the Debaltseve pocket - a juicy bargaining chip!


http://conflictreport.info/2015/02/...loses-trapping-thousands-of-ukrainian-troops/
Without an immediate and full mobilization, martial law, outside military assistance and intense international diplomatic and economic sanctions to bring Russia back to its senses, Debaltseve will fall within days and the entire Ukrainian frontline will collapse in a couple of weeks or months at max. Russia’s and its proxies’ aim is clear and openly admitted: The seizure of the entire Donbas. Once it has achieved that goal, no more military or moral boundaries will be existent to capture the rest of what it regards as “Novorossiya” reaching up to the borders of the European Union.
 
Dennisch
Start on the NATO website, they surely must have some credibility.
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Well, all I found is some satellite photos of something claimed to be Russian artillery units (there are links to "Download high resolution image", but the actual resolution is not so high). Okay.
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/photos_112202.htm
Now let's take a closer look.
3 of those images show the vehicles on the Russian territory (Rostov region). The other two, claimed to be taken on Ukrainian territory, don't have the original location description by DigitalGlobe (just some white rectangles saying "inside Ukraine"). Don't you find this strange?

Dennisch
But before you do that you should get rid of your Russian colored blindfold.
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Do you mean I'm being brainwashed by "Putin TV" again?
Well, Rule #1 in an infowar - never take the mainstream media as 100% truth automatically, use your own head to analyse. I obey this rule and recommend everyone to do so. If you think I only have "state-controlled news" on my info space you're wrong. There is the Internet, easy access to the news worldwide, and VK, the Russian social network used widely in Ukraine. I can easily contact someone from Ukraine (even from Donetsk and Luhansk regions) and ask a real witness about the situation.

Dennisch
It's getting hilarious how you are denying Russia's involvement in Ukraine.
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Are you equalizing involvement and invasion again?

Dennisch
If I recall correctly Russia annexed a piece of land belonging to Ukraine not so long ago.

See?
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Technically, this was an invasion (however, the majority of the locals seemed content with the annexiation), and I knew it when it just happened. But we are talking about the other area here - the east of Ukraine, Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

prisonermonkeys
'foreign volunteers' (which could easily be interpreted as Russian servicemen who volunteered to join the army)
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At least in the Russian language, there is a special term for 'volunteer military serviceman' (kontraktnik). A 'volunteer' - someone who joins the militia on his own will - is meant by a different word (dobrovolets).

prisonermonkeys
then they bear responsibility for the events in eastern Ukraine.
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...as well as the US who back their puppets in Kiev. Agree?

P.S. Even CNN doesn't hesitate calling the Ukrainian army 'pro-U.S. troops' :lol:
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Dotini
KIEV – Ukraine’s security service arrested a journalist on treason charges Sunday after he posted a video online urging people to dodge the country’s new military draft, his wife and officials said.

Ruslan Kotsaba — a television journalist from the western region of Ivano-Frankivsk — was ordered held in custody for 60 days pending investigations, his wife, Uliana, wrote on Facebook.

A senior official at Ukraine’s SBU security agency, Markian Lubkivskyi, wrote online that Kotsaba was detained on suspicion of treason, an accusation that carries a possible 15-year jail sentence.
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Kim Jong Un applauses at the democratic Ukraine. 👍

Dennisch
Brilliant. That way you can transport loads of medical personnel to the battlefield.
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And carry the wounded on these seats... :rolleyes:

Dotini
Without an immediate and full mobilization, martial law, outside military assistance and intense international diplomatic and economic sanctions to bring Russia back to its senses,
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Ukrainian army screws up the frontline - let's sanction Russia again, kekeke.

Dotini
Russia’s and its proxies’ aim is clear and openly admitted: The seizure of the entire Donbas.
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Eww... Did the author even read the Minsk agreements?..
 
prisonermonkeys
Disagree. America has not given military support to anyone in the Ukraine or violated its sovereignty. Russia has.
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Clausewitz said war is politics by other means.
So the fact that the US helped instigate, organize and bankroll the coup d'etat and subsequent revolution in Ukraine undermines and fatally vitiates your statement, IMO.

We should have known and seen beforehand that Russia valued Ukraine and Crimea more than we did, and not threatened their vital interests in such disastrous ways. The failure is that of the State Department, Clinton, Kerry, Nuland and them. The CIA warned them not to do this thing!

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves." -William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar
 
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Dotini
The failure is that of the State Department, Clinton, Kerry, Nuland and them. The CIA warned them not to do this thing!
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And that somehow exonerates Russia of any and all wrongdoing?

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves." -William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar
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Don't quote Shakespeare at me. It's a fight that you will lose.

"Your virtue is
To make him worthy whose offence subdues him,
And curse that justice did it. Who deserves greatness
Deserves your hate."

That's from Coriolanus, when the title character displays his contempt for the people who elected him to the Senate. Or perhaps you would prefer Iago's soliloquy from the first act of Othello in which he plans to take his standing with Othello and abuse it to achieve his own ends:

"I know not if't be true,
But I for mere suspicion in that kind
Will do as if for surety. He holds me well,
The better shall my purpose work on him."

The flaw in your argument that the likes of Clinton, Kerry and Nuland are responsible for the current situation in Ukraine is completely undermined by the way Putin would be interfering in Ukraine regardless of their involvement. Be it through arming the rebels or influencing a Kremlin sympathiser against the wishes of the people, Putin would be playing out his agenda.
 

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