Virgin Australia Supercars Championship - Archive

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Holden or Ford

  • Holden

    Votes: 209 36.2%
  • Ford

    Votes: 175 30.3%
  • Ford and Holden

    Votes: 64 11.1%
  • Nismo

    Votes: 74 12.8%
  • Erebus

    Votes: 7 1.2%
  • Nismo and Erebus

    Votes: 6 1.0%
  • Volvo

    Votes: 43 7.4%

  • Total voters
    578
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hsv
It may have been understandable if at least one of them got a penalty, but the inconsistency makes it so much worse. Scotty got a penalty OK'd in R2, but for some reason, it was only then deemed illegal - once the officials had supervised it, and of course, after the 888 sore losers squad had gone off to have a word about it. The next day, Whincup spears a car into the wall on the last lap, taking another with him. Considering every time a car is tagged around, no matter how slight or accidental, a penalty is applied, that makes no sense - and it only points towards favoritism on the 888 camp from the stewards. I'm pretty sure everyone knows it's corrupt by now.

Overall, even if you still believe Mostert shouldn't have attempted to make the corner, which he was ahead for and had the correct line, you can't deny that Jamie was going for nothing more than a last-gasp blind luck dive. There is no way it could've worked for him, in any situation, unless he had at least a complete overlap on Chaz.

Well there was an investigation into Mostert's potential wrongdoing and he was cleared. So if you want a penalty handed down that badly then you should be encouraging a penalty to Mostert. 888 has had penalties in the past as well (eg. Spinning wheels at Sandown, lowndes at Bathurst and the car controller touching the car at clipsal last year.) Although they do complain a lot more than any other team on the grid and that can get frustrating there is no favouritism. Everyone here is just against 888 no matter what side of an incident they are in

In turn 10 they were side by side with no one having clear track position. This was only the case because Mostert hit Whincup at turn 9 which is no different to SVG and JC earlier where SVG backed off. So as shown in the investigation if anyone is interested the wrong it's Mostert however I believe the right decision has been made. It was a racing incident
 
So if you want a penalty handed down that badly then you should be encouraging a penalty to Mostert.
Nowhere have I said I want penalties at all costs. Nowhere. What I want is consistency, not penalty roulette. If they hand out a penalty for being in an incident full stop, let them do it that way. If they want a clearly defined list of what's legal and what isn't, and bother to investigate everything properly, then they should do it that way.

Right now, it's make a move, see if you get done for it. If you don't, well done. If you do, bad luck. Or, 3:43 on the video above. That's completely unacceptable for a professional sports series.
 
In 2008 it was a racing incident, and this year its a racing incident. Both drivers could have avoided it, both didnt. No one in particular to blame
 
It's stupid how some people think that the trailing car is automatically at fault regardless of circumstance. Whincup tried to leave Mostert as much room as he could considering that there was a wall to his left. Some people are acting as if he should've anticipated that Mostert would still try to take the racing line despite having a car on his inside, in which case the only way that Whincup can avoid the collision is to slam on the brakes which is counter-intuitive in a racing situation and may have cost him even more places.

Cars that exist on the race track have a tendency to continue to exist on the race track, yet all too often I see incidents like this where the lead car assumes that the trailing car will back out or become a ghost. And all too often the trailing car gets blamed for being there nonetheless...
 
I'm sure everyone remembers this. This is how two highly skilled drivers can take turns 9,10 and 11 side by side and nobody ends up in the wall. Whincup seemed to be in exactly the same position as where he was last year
The only difference is Mostert cut Whincup where McLaughlin didn't. Mostert ended up in the wall and McLaughlin didn't...

 
I'm sure everyone remembers this. This is how two highly skilled drivers can take turns 9,10 and 11 side by side and nobody ends up in the wall. Whincup seemed to be in exactly the same position as where he was last year
The only difference is Mostert cut Whincup where McLaughlin didn't. Mostert ended up in the wall and McLaughlin didn't...


The difference is right there, in the video thumbnail. They're fully side by side, and McLaughlin is wide because of it. If McLaughlin had've been a good length ahead and actually on the racing line, we would get a carbon copy of today.

The "my car won't disappear" argument is completely invalid when you stick your car somewhere it shouldn't be.
 
In the Mostert incident Whincup was at the back of the front passenger door and with McLaughlin he was halfway up to the front passenger door. Are you trying to say that half a door length is the difference between an accident and side by side racing?
 
In the Mostert incident Whincup was at the back of the front passenger door and with McLaughlin he was halfway up to the front passenger door. Are you trying to say that half a door length is the difference between an accident and side by side racing?
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They've about a wheel's length distance between them.

And yes, the difference between hounding someone's rear quarter and being nearly completely alongside is all the difference needed between a good, well planned move, and a last minute dive bound to end in a crash.

EDIT -

upload_2015-3-1_11-54-31.png


Precisely the same spot.

McLaughlin made it through because he was expecting a car on the inside of him, so he was far over to the right. That is a much greater deciding factor in the crash. If Chaz had've been far right, Whincup could've had a go by all means, but when you have a car taking its normal line, you have no right to jam your car where it won't go.
 
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Well he's past the B pillar so he has every right to be there. That's what the driving code states
 
Well he's past the B pillar so he has every right to be there.
Well, the corner goes left and Whincup is about to run out of room. That's what common sense says.

Whincup should not have been there. You cannot pass at that corner unless the other driver makes a mistake, has a problem, or lets you through. It should have been obvious to Whincup that none of those three were going to happen. For some reason, he chose to bully his way through, and ruined two drivers' races. Even if it was a racing incident between Whincup and Mostert, Moffatt was the one who paid for it.

If Whincup felt that Mostert had gained the place through contact at Turn 9, he should have backed off, finished the race, and raised it with the stewards. Mostert being in the wrong at Turn 9 doesn't exonerate Whincup at Turn 10.
 
Yeah I hate Whincup just as much as everyone else but he had enough Overlap to be there, Mostert was the one overtaking from the outside at the time and Whincup was holding his line but Mostert kept turning towards him.

When a car is at your B pillar you have no excuse to move into them, unless your Maldonado.
 
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This reminds me more of the Gold Coast a few years ago. Granted a little biased as I dislike Whincup, but as far as penalties go, he absolutely should have been issued one for this. He had lost the corner before even getting there
 
I would Link it more to Vettel Webber incident at Turkey 2010, Vettel moved Into Webber when Webber was at his B pillar level(if there was one) so he could get the optimum line into the next corner, which is the same as Mostert, only difference is they are on opposite sides but the racing line was on the opposite as well so its a direct link.



 
So, is it the fault of the driver who can't see or the one that can see?

Mostert couldn't see only because he was missing his mirror which makes it an unfortunate circumstance and therefore a racing incident.
 
You can pass at that corner, its been done numerous times. Dont know what you're on about?
Of course you can - but only if the other driver makes a mistake, has a problem, or decides early to let you through. None of which happened here, and so the attempted pass was a huge risk.

Mostert couldn't see only because he was missing his mirror which makes it an unfortunate circumstance and therefore a racing incident.
Whincup wasn't far enough ahead for the pass to be a certainty. The burden of responsibility to execute the pass was on him.
 
Of course you can - but only if the other driver makes a mistake, has a problem, or decides early to let you through. None of which happened here, and so the attempted pass was a huge risk.


Whincup wasn't far enough ahead for the pass to be a certainty. The burden of responsibility to execute the pass was on him.

Well explain Whincup on McLaughlin the year before. There was no mistake or problem and most certainly did not let him pass.

Yes your right the pass was not a certainty (which we all clearly saw) but it takes two drivers for a clean overtake. Whincup was as far left as possible. It's then up to Mostert to give him the space he's entitled to
 
It's then up to Mostert to give him the space he's entitled to
Which would be an excellent point - if Whincup was entitled to the space. But a successful pass was by no means guaranteed at that time, and Mostert was entitled to the racing line. The same racing line that he was taking into the corner.
 
Well explain Whincup on McLaughlin the year before. There was no mistake or problem and most certainly did not let him pass.
I covered precisely that in my post before.
hsv
McLaughlin made it through because he was expecting a car on the inside of him, so he was far over to the right. That is a much greater deciding factor in the crash. If Chaz had've been far right, Whincup could've had a go by all means, but when you have a car taking its normal line, you have no right to jam your car where it won't go.
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Yes your right the pass was not a certainty (which we all clearly saw) but it takes two drivers for a clean overtake. Whincup was as far left as possible. It's then up to Mostert to give him the space he's entitled to
What I don't get is this viewpoint. Should every driver drive with enough space for a car to shoot straight past? If Mostert had moved over, he would be willingly giving up a spot he had every right to. It's not up to Mostert to do anything other than drive the racing line as he normally would. It's Whincup's job to not try and pass where he clearly won't. That's just not how racing works.
 
hsv
What I don't get is this viewpoint. Should every driver drive with enough space for a car to shoot straight past? If Mostert had moved over, he would be willingly giving up a spot he had every right to. It's not up to Mostert to do anything other than drive the racing line as he normally would. It's Whincup's job to not try and pass where he clearly won't. That's just not how racing works.

If the leading car always held the racing line then just about all overtaking attempts would result in collisions. Once your past the B-pillar the leading car has to give racing room and not just hit the apex like no car is even there. That's the driving code. No you don't just let him pass. You give him as little room as reasonably possible and then the two drivers fight for position. That's how racing works.
 
a) Unless Whincup could've been past the B-pillar as he was actually overtaking, taking into account how backing out on the apex (as he started to do when he realised it was too late) would've caused him to drop to his rear quarter at best, then he shouldn't have gone for it.

b) Whincup would've seen Mostert's mirror out already. That is poor judgement on his behalf.

The bottom line is, as he was on the corner exit, and he saw Chaz's mirror out, and he realised he didn't have the space, and the drag race wouldn't have come to much fruition, they were his signs to back out, switch right, let Mostert run wide, and possibly dive up the inside there. It is the job of the driver behind to set up a proper pass, not to let the driver ahead make it as easy as possible for him.
 
Whincup even says Chas did not know that whincup was slipping on oil from the Super Black.

So, last lap. Last few corners and Whincup is falling back. Tell me what driver is not going to dispatch Whincup to move up in the points. If the defending champ is on the ropes. Pounce!
 
Of course you can - but only if the other driver makes a mistake, has a problem, or decides early to let you through. None of which happened here, and so the attempted pass was a huge risk.


Whincup wasn't far enough ahead for the pass to be a certainty. The burden of responsibility to execute the pass was on him.

Um no, there has been a LOT of racing through the corner that does not happen with any of the above you mentioned. Side by side through there happens often whether a car makes a mistake or not. I dont know how long you have been watching this series for but it doesnt sound like for long?

And why is the burden on Whincup? He is the one being overtaken, not the one doing the overtaking. Luckily you are not an official!
 
Because the defending driver naturally holds road position. Hence, he gets to choose his line first since he is physically ahead on the road. In any pass, the burden of responsibility rests with the attacking driver until he has reached the point where the pass can be completed - which hadn't happened in this case.

Not if Whincup was along side Mostert's B-pillar like he was.
Except that Whincup would have to brake harder to make the corner, negating whatever ground he had gained. Getting a nose alongside the B-pillar doesn't entitle you to a pass. It's half a pass.
 
Except that Whincup would have to brake harder to make the corner, negating whatever ground he had gained. Getting a nose alongside the B-pillar doesn't entitle you to a pass. It's half a pass.

But it does entitle him to the inside line though.
 
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