Vitz Pro - my turn!

Discussion in 'GT3 Race Reports' started by Duke, Mar 27, 2003.

  1. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    24,019
    Location:
    United States
    Pro League Vitz/Yaris Championship

    Having consulted Der Alta's compendium, and having read the numerous posts about how hard it is to beat the AI in this series, I took my pink Vitz (hereafter called The Pitz) and put nearly everything possible into it. I skipped three things: Lightweight 3, the brake proportioning valve, and a performance flywheel. This puts the car at 294 hp.

    With a car this placid I really want to stay out of pit lane, so it's wearing T3s all around, with T2s in reserve. I can't understand the popular habit of running softer tires on the back just so they wear evenly with the fronts. This car understeers for the most part. That can be dialed out, but the more radical your alignment, the more you are slowing this underpowered car down due to drag from massive toe and camber settings. Why handicap the speed and acceleration if you can just run harder tires in the back and not have to work so hard to balance the handling? Who cares if they're still almost blue at the end of the race?

    Enough editorializing. To the track!

    Rome Circuit II - 10 laps

    Because it has been 6 months or more since I've driven the Pitz, I decided to qualify and check out the first-draft settings. On my second or third lap I captured 3rd on the starting grid, which I deemed good enough. Even though the fronts wear twice as fast as the rears, the T3s should last 10 laps.

    With TCS off, I lost a position at the launch from smoking the front tires, and lost the rest of them in the first turn. The white, red, and silver Vitzes had the mojo and left me battling the black and yellow versions. I recaptured 5th in the first lap and spent the next couple laps trading 4th with the yellow Vitz. At this point I was 7 or 8 seconds out of first place. By lap 4 I had an unassailable hold on 4th position and I was overhauling the front runners. I caught up to them Downtown in the 5th lap and would have started knocking them off on the front straight when they handed me the lead by pitting after lap 5. The bumblebee twins had their moment of glory in 2nd and 3rd position before they lost it in the pits on lap 6, widening my lead from 6 seconds to about 14. My front tires were turning alarmingly orange so I worked on conserving them for the remaining 4 laps. The hotshoes had made some progress but were still a long way behind when I crossed the finish with dark orange front tires.

    Margins: +12.424" - +19.199" Vitzes
    Total time: 17':02.325"
    Fast lap: 1':40.079"
    Average: 1':42.232" with no pit

    Laguna Seca - 10 laps

    Even though the last lap was my fastest at Rome, I was a little worried by the lifespan of the T3s, so I switched down to T2s at all four corners. I also declined to qualify since I was looking for a tighter finish.

    This time, the field seems to have a speed advantage. In the first turn fracas I had maneuvered my way up to third, only to be squashed back down to last in the second turn. The AI seemed really hooked up in some of the mid-speed turns and so I couldn't solidify 4th position. I spent most of the first half of this race in 5th, winding up more than 10 or 12 seconds off the pace. The T2s were looking great but nobody pitted on 5, which gave me a bit of concern, since I was worried that their lead might widen enough that even if they did pit I couldn't win. However, the 3 leaders pitted next time around, moving me to 2nd, and I passed for the lead on the front straight of the 6th lap. The previous leaders emerged from their pit about 5 seconds behind me, but the T2s were just coming into their own, and they never got any closer than that. Once again my last lap was the fastest and I took the checker with optimal light yellow-orange tires on the front, and yellow-green rears.

    My last race at Laguna was in the Oreca Viper, so for the first few laps this time I was braking miles too early and being too gentle on the throttle. Once I got adjusted, the lap times fell significantly. The little Pitz was a lot of fun to toss through the Corkscrew.

    Margins: +7.020" - +17.196" Vitzes
    Total time: 16':006.444"
    Fast lap: 1':34.491"
    Average: 1':36.644" with no pit

    Luckily the field shuffled heavily behind me so I'm leading with 20 points to the closest competitor with 10.

    Test Course - 10 laps

    While I thoroughly enjoyed my prior race here (All-Japan GT, a real nail biter), PD didn-t get it right this time. I-m not fundamentally opposed to racing the Vitz at this long long track. It's just that any car built up enough to be competitive on the other courses is going to massacre the field here. It's simply not a good fit in this case.

    I stuck with T2s, dropped the suspension the rest of the way down, and dialed out most of the toe and camber. I left the final drive at 4.312 but widened the autoset to 27. I took a warmup lap to confirm that this was right, but didn't qualify.

    With the gearing this tall I fell a little behind at the launch, but I caught up as they begin to get out of breath around 1500m and was well in the lead by the time I settled into the first turn. The gearing was absolutely perfect, as the Pitz topped out at 162 mph at 6950 rpm (only 50 rpm shy of the rev limiter) and dropped just a bit to 158 mph in the turns, which meant no shifting was required. It was balls to the wall the whole way, while trying to steer the minimum possible amount to squeeze every mph out of the little car. I looked down around lap 4 and was surprised to see that the front tires were just turning pale blue and the rears were still cool as a cucumber. I lapped the entire field on the fly about halfway through lap 6 and was less than 1000m from lapping them a second time when I took the checker. The front tires were still pale green and the rears medium blue.

    I started this series at night and I was actually nodding off during this race, but I managed to stay out of the wall. I realized I could see the light/dark difference of being in the tunnel even with my eyes closed, so I took a 30-second nap each time around by lining the car up at the end of Turn Two, then closing my eyes till the returning brightness showed that I had come out the other side.

    Margins: +1 lap(almost 2) Vitzes
    Total time: 24':30.941"
    Fast lap: 2':25.651"
    Average: 2':27.094" with no pit

    I wanted to do this series in one sitting but half asleep with R11 Reverse up next, it ain't happening.

    I'll post my settings next time when I complete the last two races. I note, however, that they are nowhere near as radical as Kodiak's... but neither is my margin. Somehow, I just can't bring myself to go much outside the range of what would be used on a real car. Perhaps I'll try his set up and see if phreaky physics can pull 5 or 6 seconds off my lap times at Rome, or whether I just suck that badly.
     
  2. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer

    Messages:
    2,354
    Location:
    United States
    Boy ain't it just the PITZ ! ! !

    Can't wait for the next installment !!!...UB57
    :eek:
     
  3. under18carbon

    under18carbon

    Messages:
    3,692
    Nice job Neon!
     
  4. gumpy

    gumpy

    Messages:
    1,119
    Here are some of the Vitz colours and their names:

    Orange Metallic - Omitz
    Yellow - Yitz
    Pink - Pitz
    Cyan - Citz

    What about these (I am not sure of the colours)

    Blue - Blitz
    Green - Gritz
    White - Whitz


    :lol: :lol:
     
  5. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer

    Messages:
    2,354
    Location:
    United States
    Too bad none of them are "Zirconia" coloured eh???
     
  6. gumpy

    gumpy

    Messages:
    1,119
    What about "turquoise" or however it is spelt.
     
  7. ving

    ving

    Messages:
    5,716
    or puce :p
     
  8. SandStorm

    SandStorm (Banned)

    Messages:
    7,070
    "turqouise" - Titz? :lol:
     
  9. bondy_1625

    bondy_1625

    Messages:
    3,014


    :lol: blitz yaris kool:lol:
    actually ive got a blitz
     
  10. bondy_1625

    bondy_1625

    Messages:
    3,014
    what about gold - gitz:lol: :lol:
    cant think of one for pale rose metallic opel - prmoitz???:confused: :lol:
     
  11. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer

    Messages:
    2,354
    Location:
    United States
    Just be glad none of them are SHamrock coloured!!!

    (Just look what you've started DUKE ! ! !)
     
  12. bondy_1625

    bondy_1625

    Messages:
    3,014
    somebody think of a colour staring with n
     
  13. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    24,019
    Location:
    United States
    SS R11 Reverse - 10 laps

    Going into this race I was a little nervous. I've run fewer than 50 laps on this track altogether, in any cars, and I really dislike it in the front direction. It always seems to be scheduled after the oil light comes on, too. Plus the grapevine says that the AI are on fire (as best you can be in a Vitz, anyway) in this race.

    I adjusted the gearing and reset the suspension to pre-TC setup, except I left it bottomed out. DNQ again and started from 6th.

    At the green flag we all took off. Even soft pedaling the launch in 2nd gear with TCS at 1, I lost some ground to wheelspin. I caught up to the pack going into the offset at Turns 2/3, where the red Vitz got wall slammed on the exit by someone up front. I got past him for 5th as he struggled to accelerate, then dueled with him for the entire first lap. I was able to hold him off until the second quadrant of lap 2 when he finally elbowed past me. At that time I was about 10 seconds out of first place, and getting worried. No way I could afford to keep falling behind at that rate, even if they did pit. After a moment of panic (since there is no way to come back with a ringer car in this series), I calmed down and just drove to minimize mistakes that would cost time or tire wear. Over the next 3 laps I fell back to about 15-17" off the point. The field was spreading out a little, because I had started to catch the 5th place red Vitz. Their tires were pooping out though, because I was something less than 15" down when they all pitted after lap 5. My tires were pale orange at this point but it seemed likely that they were going to last well enough.

    I took the lead at the start of lap 6 with everyone else in the pits (I freely admit it - pit strategy is a valid way to win a race!) and they came back on the track about 10 seconds behind me at the first quadrant of lap 6. Not a big margin considering that I had lost more than that in the first 2 laps, and I had 5 laps left to run. I stepped up the pace as best I could without risking a big mistake or cooking the front tires. My margin steadily fell over the next 3 laps, but luckily the T2s were still reaching optimal temperature so my speed kept up. The 2nd place black Vitz closed to within 2.3xx" of me when I had a poor showing on lap 8, but I recovered for lap 9 and regained a couple seconds. I had been prepared for a close finish, but I watched them fall back dramatically as their tires wore out on the back side of the last lap. I took the checker with medium orange tires and a larger margin than I had expected a few minutes earlier.

    Margins: +9.455" - +16.920" Vitzes
    Total time: 23':03.727"
    Fast lap: 2':16.095"
    Average: 2':18.372" with no pit

    Points: 40 for the Pitz, 16 points for the Sitz

    I started this race down 2 hp from oil wear and finished it down 9 hp to 285. Even so I don't expect trouble at Grand Valley II, even if they don't pit. We'll find out soon!
     
  14. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    24,019
    Location:
    United States
    With a big points lead, I quit the last race and was awarded the Supra RZ in a weird green color. I almost took it to run in the PD Cup, but I figured if I got the Altezza LM instead, I could buy the Supra outright and still be way ahead on cash. 2 reloads later and I had the Altezza racer with some really ugly gold trim. I like my blue one better so I sold this one.

    Hopped back in the Pits and decided to leave the oil dirty. Headed straight to GV II and started without qualifying. Why do the AI suck so badly on this track? All the extra boost they get at R11 and especially R246 must get taken out of their paychecks at GV, because the AI just never have it together here, in any car.

    At the green they moved a little away from me but as always their tires warmed up faster. By lap 2 I was about 5.5xx" out of first place, but by lap 3 it was half that, and on lap 4 I passed the back half of the field in Turn 3 at the sharp esses. I picked off 2nd before the last tunnel, and took the lead at the Little Hairpin on lap 4. They pitted at the end of this lap (which surprised the heck out of me) and my lead jumped from 3.xxx" to over 20 seconds. Even after their tires warmed up they never put a dent in that margin, and I was really surprised to see them pit again after lap 9. Yet again my last lap was my fastest and I took the checker and then had a sandwich while I waited for the field to catch up. My tires were light orange up front and light yellow out back.

    Margin: +54.029" - 1:00.833"
    Total time: 22':10.883"
    Fast lap: 2':10.556"
    Average lap: 2':13.083"

    It's obvious that this series is won entirely on pit strategy. In other words, don't do it! The AI can run away from you everywhere except the Test Course.

    Has anybody won the series using the same tires and pit schedule as the AI? I'd like to hear your story if you did.
     
  15. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer

    Messages:
    2,354
    Location:
    United States
    As always EXCELLENT WRITE-UPS Duke ! ! !:tup: ...UB57
    :D
     
  16. Cobraking

    Cobraking (Banned)

    Messages:
    2,919
    Great Write-up , Neon_Duke ... :tup:
     
  17. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    24,019
    Location:
    United States
    Thanks, guys! The writeups are fun to do and I'm glad they're fun to read. The thing that really helps me is the subjective information and tips that other people give, so here goes.

    First, the facts:

    Pink prize car Vitz/Yaris
    Mods: everything except LW3, brake balancer, and flywheel - 294 hp at start

    Settings as follows:
    Tires: T2s
    Springs: 6.0/6.2
    Ride Ht: 89/89
    Bound: 4/8
    Rebound: 5/9
    Camber: 3.5/1.0
    Toe: +0.5/-0.5
    Stabs: 4/5

    Autoset: 22, 25, 27
    F/D: 4.312
    LSD: 10/15/5
    ASM: 0
    TCS: 1

    The Vitz actually handles quite well for a FWD kei car. With the setup above it rotates readily and grips well through medium- and high-speed corners. When built up for this series, though, front end grip issues are brought out by the extra power. However, they can be dealt with in a few ways:

    1) Use very light throttle - almost coast - around the tighter corners. The car is so light that you can brake realtively late, then stop braking while you still have momentum. Turning in at this point under very low throttle will pull the front of the car right around. Resist the temptation to accelerate until you are nearly through the turn and can unwind the steering nearly all the way.

    2) Stay a gear higher than recomended in tight corners, and use very smooth throttle on exit. With almost 300 hp the Vitz will spin the front tires at 50 mph in 3rd gear, so be gentle on it and it will acelerate better - and steer better too.

    3) For medium- and high- speed corners, stay a gear lower than recommended. This keeps the car in the power band better, but more importantly it really lets you throttle steer. At medium speed and high revs, staying in 3rd or 4th lets you transfer weight forward and aft at will, which has a dramatic effect on the short-wheelbased Vitz's cornering line.

    All in all I enjoyed this series a lot, and I like the Pink Vitz! It's a great little car and I plan to use it a lot more in the early phase of my next restart.
     
  18. SandStorm

    SandStorm (Banned)

    Messages:
    7,070
    My Vitz/Yaris is Pink - it's the Pitz!

    And it's no use laughing, I'm pround of my Pink Vitz. :D
     
  19. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    24,019
    Location:
    United States
    *bump* Since the Vitz is such a hot topic these days...
     
  20. Azuremen

    Azuremen Premium

    Messages:
    17,821
    Location:
    United States
    I think its dying down now adays Neon, as well, Phonypoly seems to have... vanished <_<

    But might as well, though I already have your settings in the Vitz thread. If ya see any more posts on it with settings, could ya point me at them?? I figured if I'm gonna amass a colletion of settings, I'll get them all!! Gotta catch em all... :dunce:
     
  21. phonypoly

    phonypoly

    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    Canada
    Hey, i didn't vanish, ..just yet :lol: i do have to...work :yuck: sometimes, so i can buy a mmmm...muzzle... for the ...wife :idea:
    Anyways, here's my next trial at the Bitz SSR11. Hey, if you get the blue Vitz and the pink Vitz together, wouldn't that make it: Bitz & Pitzes?? :rolleyes:
    Bitz, 294 hp, T2 f / T5 r Spring rate: 12.0 f / 14.0 r Ride height: 94mm f/r
    Shock bound: 3 f/r Shock rebound 10 f/r Camber angle: 4.2 f / 3.4 r
    Toe angle: -2.0 f / -0.5 r Stabilizers: 7 f/r Brake balance: 20 f / 21 r
    Limited slip initial: 5 / accel. 5 / decel. 5
    Gear ratio: level 24/ Final: 3.900 ASM: 0 TCS: 2 (still too much spin)
    Quilified 1st, with T6 f / T7 r @ 2'11.406
    Finished:
    1st 22'43.563<my time (too much spin)
    2nd 23'14.488
    3rd 23'14.641
    4th 23'18.942
    5th 23'23.854
    6th 23'34.516
    Watching the replay, it's funny how the gold car(Glitchz), running last at end of lap 4, @ -10.6, pits twice and still finishes only 14 seconds behind :sick: ??And the total race time was 6 seconds faster than my previous attempt...? :ouch:
    I will try again with alot less HP :tup:
     
  22. phonypoly

    phonypoly

    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    Canada
    Howdy!!On a previous post, i stated my fastest lap to be in the 2'09.?., well, after watching the replay, i realized, that was the qualifing lap and, it was a little faster than usual, because i cought the draft from one of the cars ahead, both on the start of the quailifing lap and at the end :indiff: The fastest lap then, was: 2'12.644. So, here are some different settings for the Vitz SSR11 race:
    Same ole blue Vitz/Bullitz @ 294 HP.
    Qualified 1st with T6f/T7r @ 2'11.406 (-2'2..) and used T3f/T5r in the race.

    Spring rate: 14.5f/ 16.5r, Ride height: 94f/r, Shock bound: 3f/r, rebound:10f/r
    Camber angle: 5.6f/4.0r, Toe angle: -1.0f/-0.5r, Stabilizers: 7f/r
    Brake balance: 20f/21r, Limited slip initial: 5, accel: 5, decel: 5
    Gear ratio level 23, but lowered 6th gear to 0.810, Final: 3.900, ASM:0, TCS: 3
    Finished: 1st @ :
    1st: 23'06.631
    2nd:23'18.164
    3rd:23'20.951
    4th:23'22.384
    5th:23'23.983
    6th:23'38.448
    Although the final race time wasn't as great as a previous attempt, i managed to stay up front 99.99% of the times. I shortly lost the lead at the second check point, on lap 1 & 2, but both times i gained right back just past the chicane and after that, they were......history :tup: I lost alot of time in the last 3 laps, though, the T3's were bright red, i was on...ice! :nervous:
    I then tried again with same settings, except i used T2f/T5r and lowered the Final to: 3.874, and this is the result: Quilified 1st using T6f/T7r and T2f/T5r in the race.
    Finished 1st @:
    1st: 22'49.454
    2nd: 23'12.794
    3rd: 23'14.094
    4th: 23'16.622
    5th: 23'25.856
    6th: 23'38.361
    I lost the lead at the first 180 turn and didn't get it back till the last turn at the end of lap 5. :sick:
     
  23. JB23

    JB23

    Messages:
    41
    Well done. Did you pit? What lap? I had a lot of trouble with the Beginner Vitz, and don't have my Pitz tuned quite right yet for the Pro. When I get home today, I'm going to give your settings a go and see what happens. I never thought about changing tires after qualifying; makes sense.
     
  24. phonypoly

    phonypoly

    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    Canada
    Hi! No, i din not pit, the T2 tires will last, but of course, the initial grip (first 3 laps)will be....limited, so, the other cars will be allover you, bumping you and in your way etc....you need to get the feel for it and get ahead. Although, by the end of the race, you can be a good 20+ seconds ahead, you could use T5's instead and pit at the end of lap 5, just like they do, but then.....it will be ....intense!! :nervous:
    Once you've learned the track and the car's handling, it will be alot easier. :sick:
    BTW, if you have 2 memory cards, you can do the "total upgraded car" trick :tup:
    In other words, if you have about 300.000/400.000 credits, load your game onto both memory cards, then, get in the Vitz and go to the "Tune shop" and buy all the upgrades on the list, suspension, tires, turbo, trans, etc....buy it all and also go to the "GT auto" shop and buy an oil change, it will add extra HP.:tup: and then save the game only onto memory card #2, then, restart the game with memory card #1, click on Simulation/home/trade and load garage from memory card #2, click on the Vitz you just upgraded and...buy it! Then, click back twice, wich will bring you to garage of memory card #1, click on garage and see if the Vitz you just bought, is on top of the list, if it is, click back, go to save and save the game on memory card #1. Now, restart the game with memory card #1. You should have only 14.530 cr. missing from your total (the cost of the Vitz)and a beautifull fully loaded Vitz in your garage. If so, save the game also onto memory card #2 and then you can re-do that process with any other car. BTW, you can sell all the cars you don't need in memory card #2 and use the credit$ to buy/upgrade any car you can afford to buy, with the credits on memory card #1. Now, think how easier is going to....be, if you do this to every car you buy. :tup:
    I hope you understood me. :cheers:
    Good luck and...don't throw anymore controllers at the wall :lol: :tup: Take care!
     
  25. Famine

    Famine Administrator

    Messages:
    66,796
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    With T3s n the front and T5s on the rear, with the settings I posted, you shouldn't need to pit at all.
     
  26. pimp racer

    pimp racer

    Messages:
    4,805
    :lol:

    Great write Duke.
     
  27. phonypoly

    phonypoly

    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    Canada
    How about:
    Orange-Citrusitz// Yellow-Pissitz//Pink- Girlitz//Cyan-C-ya-in-a-itz or Cyanideitz//
    Blue-Blitzenitz//Red=Rudolphitz//Green-Veggitz//White-Whizitz//Turquoise-Turquitz
    Black-Ebonitz//Silver-Sillyitz//....etc...
    Someone asked for a color starting with "N" ? :irked: Neurotitz :lol:
    I hope i made someone ..smile :tup:
     
  28. pimp racer

    pimp racer

    Messages:
    4,805
    "Turquoise-Turquitz"

    That should just remain Titz. :lol:
     
  29. Uncle Harry

    Uncle Harry

    Messages:
    1,414
    The 1.3 Euro version in Black would be Slowbitz.
     
  30. phonypoly

    phonypoly

    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    Canada
    :lol:
    Don't you think, the T-Quitz sounds better?It quitz @ half way. :sick:
    Teal: Teatz?(sounds like titz)?