Was this a good buy?

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Combustion

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I just bought a '94 Ford Sierra with a Cosworth engine, puts out about 450-500bhp from a friend I know that has poured his heart and soul into the car. Almost all the parts are imported and it's a great car. Looking on the web I found a car that is almost exactly identical here: http://cossie.tkrath.dk/bilen.htm

I payed 15,000 euro (~20,000$) for it.

I want your opinion.
 
Great car that is not seen much anymore. As long as it remains reliable with all that power, then you have a good deal 👍
 
Is it a genuine Sierra Cosworth - or just a Sierra with a Cossie engine?

Cosworths are certainly worth more if they are left as unmodified as possible, is it a 4 door 2WD or 4 door 4WD? - as a future investment a 3 door or 3 door RS500 are the ones to go for, again as original as possible.

I would certainly be careful around a 450-500bhp modified version, like any turbo car tunned up like this, not only do they drop out of tune quite quickly, but also are highly likely to 'grenade' on you if not looked after - you'll want to know that these mods have been done by a pro, and that all your oil and belt changes have been done regularly. Having said all that, they are fantastic cars much over looked these days with all the Evos and Imprezas around.
 
Sierra cossies are cool cars when they haven't been abused. Always loved the '87 style ones but they cost a bomb now.
 
All I can say is 20,000 bucks on a car that is 11 years old is a bit much. Unless these cars are uber special or something.
 
hmm. I just googled for the pics of a Ford Sierra...looks like it's the british equivelant of a previous gen thunderbird/Cougar in the US. it also reminds me of the fox body platform Mustang by the front end and the way the headlight buckets are done. it also strikes me as a possible brit clone of Taurus/Sable.

and I thought a cozzie was a "paint and tape" style package, not a full blown like a Ghia or a US "gt" package?
 
It is not an original cosworth, it's a conversion. 4 door 4WD.

What I know is that he has bought and modified the car, it wasn't passed to him, and he has taken it to the same mechanic for all the time he's had the car. In fact one of the terms of the deal was that I take it to the same mechanic at regular service intervals for full checkup and oil change.

Because it is the first time I have had such a car, he took me through a whole 1 hour driving lesson. Eg.

1. Never engage the turbo in first, he says although the transmission he has can handle the torque, it will just multiply the amount of wear on the engine.

2. Never turn the car off before the ventilation stops or you can burn the engine. He even has put in a ventilation fan override button so you can start cooling the engine 5 or so minutes before reaching destination.

3. Never press gas when starting the car, apparently because the fuel injectors are so large they flood the engine.

and a lot of other points, but those were the main ones regarding this particular car.

I like the car, the power surge is awesome, it feels exactly like a roller coaster doing a vertical drop. A rough estimate gives a 0-60mph speed of 5 seconds in second gear, but that includes the turbo lag. I don't want to try and start off with the turbo engaged because it may **** up the transmission.

The best thing I like about the car, is that it doesn't look like it can go fast. Apart from the two inconspicuous turbo air inlets and the massive brakes, it looks like an every roller, even the rims don't give it away.
 
Combustion
It is not an original cosworth, it's a conversion. 4 door 4WD.
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So its not a genuine Sierra Cosworth? (ie it started life as a bog-standard Sierra)

Or are you saying that it's the 'MkII' Sierra Cosworth - the Saphire Cosworth?

If you've paid that much for a 'reproduction' than you've been totally ripped-off, there was so much more to the Cosworth than just the engine, a lot of the parts on them, especially the suspension were parts homologated for racing and rallying (4 door) that you just didn't get on any other Sierra, even the XR4x4.
 
I didn't know they made 4 door 4wd Non cosworth Sierras. Sounds like a pretty awesome car, but it also sounds like a fairly high maintenance one as well.

I'd love to be able to get a completely unmolested unthrashed Saphire 2WD, but it's impossible because of insurance and it's bloody hard to find one that hasn't been thrashed.

I'd assume that if it's a sierra with a cosworth engine dumped into it, that there has been stuff done with the suspension and drivetrain?

Here's a Cosworth Conversion £5500.

Also here is a legitimate (supposedly anyway) Sapphire cosworth for £5000

Oh man, I shouldn't look at autotrader it fuels the hate for my current car an wanting to get shot of it for something nicer.
 
Race Idiot
I didn't know they made 4 door 4wd Non cosworth Sierras. Sounds like a pretty awesome car, but it also sounds like a fairly high maintenance one as well.

I'd love to be able to get a completely unmolested unthrashed Saphire 2WD, but it's impossible because of insurance and it's bloody hard to find one that hasn't been thrashed.

I'd assume that if it's a sierra with a cosworth engine dumped into it, that there has been stuff done with the suspension and drivetrain?
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Looking back on what i've said, i think you're right - i don't think they did make a 4WD 4 door 'Sapphire' that wasn't a Cossie. The XR4x4 was the 5 door wasn't it.

I'm sure that you could insure a Cossie much more cheaply these days with a specialist insurer who'd class the Cossie as a modern classic - as long as you did limited milage. The RS Owners Club would be your best place to find an unmolested, well looked after model. You'd probably find that the 4WD version is your best bet for reliability as well, mechanically it was much modified over the 2WD, especially since the engine was designed to run on unleaded (green head/cam-cover), where as the 2WD versions need some modifications £££ to run it (red head/cam-cover).
 
TheCracker
Looking back on what i've said, i think you're right - i don't think they did make a 4WD 4 door 'Sapphire' that wasn't a Cossie. The XR4x4 was the 5 door wasn't it.

I'm sure that you could insure a Cossie much more cheaply theses days with a specialist insurer who would class the Cossie as a modern classic - as long as you did limited milage. The RS Owners Club would be your best place to find an unmolested well looked after model. You'd probably find that the 4WD version is your best bet for reliability, it was much modified over the 2WD mechanically, especially since the engine was designed to run on unleaded (green head/cam-cover), where as the 2WD versions need some modifications to run it (red head/cam-cover).
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I can't find any information on a 4 door non cosworth 4wd sierra. Although I can't find any sites with information on the non cossie models. And i've only seen XR4x4's that are the the 5 doors. Although you don't see many sierras around these days.

It's pretty much an imposibility for me though, i'm 22 and I need a car to drive to work daily. So I don't think a 10 year old car with forced induction would appreciate being bombed down the A406 twice a day without breaking a few times. Also I pretty much shot myself in the foot with insurance, by rear ending some guy in a Vauxhall Nova at about 3mph this Monday morning. And now I have to pay a rediculous excess just for two slightly scratched bumpers.
 
TheCracker
If you've paid that much for a 'reproduction' than you've been totally ripped-off, there was so much more to the Cosworth than just the engine, a lot of the parts on them, especially the suspension were parts homologated for racing and rallying (4 door) that you just didn't get on any other Sierra, even the XR4x4.
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Yes it's a reproduction, and I know that there is a lot more to the cosworth than just the engine.

Afaik almost all the parts have been imported from the uk, the whole suspension has been redone, I even think the original sierra base was a 2WD but I'm not sure, I'll ask. I know for sure that the suspension has been replaced, as have the brakes, transmission, the exhaust, the CC taken out and of course the engine.

Considering there is a 100% custom tax on cars 2 liters and above in Greece where I live, that would mean that £5500 car would cost me the same money + transport to get here.

On a side note, I beat my friend's new BMW Z4 3.0 today :)
 
Race Idiot
It's pretty much an imposibility for me though, i'm 22 and I need a car to drive to work daily. So I don't think a 10 year old car with forced induction would appreciate being bombed down the A406 twice a day without breaking a few times. Also I pretty much shot myself in the foot with insurance, by rear ending some guy in a Vauxhall Nova at about 3mph this Monday morning. And now I have to pay a rediculous excess just for two slightly scratched bumpers.
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Hmmm.... you might be right there

I did the same to a Discovery about 3 years ago, i only hit it at about 5mph (it stopped dead on a round about) but their bumpers are made of metal and it managed to bend enough panels on my car to right it off :indiff: It totally ****ed me up insurance wise for 3 years! - i can tell you from experience, it will be cheaper for you not to go through your insurance, but just fork out for the cost yourself, you'll be paying excess anyway, but it will certainly cost you much less in the long run. If you do go through your insurance company, it will increase your payments for the next 3 years, but by the time this incident is cleared from your 'insurance records' you'll be 25 and you'll get much cheaper premiums anyhow :)
 
Combustion
Considering there is a 100% custom tax on cars 2 liters and above in Greece where I live, that would mean that £5500 car would cost me the same money + transport to get here.
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A Cossie on Greek roads? - that sounds like a bad combination, i got myself into enough trouble in a 1.1 Opel Corsa last time i was in Greece.
 
TheCracker
Hmmm.... you might be right there

I did the same to a Discovery about 3 years ago, i only hit it at about 5mph (it stopped dead on a round about) but their bumpers are made of metal and it managed to bend enough panels on my car to right it off :indiff: It totally ****ed me up insurance wise for 3 years! - i can tell you from experience, it will be cheaper for you not to go through your insurance, but just fork out for the cost yourself, you'll be paying excess anyway, but it will certainly cost you much less in the long run. If you do go through your insurance company, it will increase your payments for the next 3 years, but by the time this incident is cleared from your 'insurance records' you'll be 25 and you'll get much cheaper premiums anyhow :)
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See thats the thing, the other guy went straight home and made a claim on his insurance. I would have just straight paid him off for whatever needed to be done to his car. Well he would just need a new plastic bumper for his car, which to be honest is probably dirt cheap seeing as it's a Vauxhall nova. My car has a few minor scratches on the bumper that you have to pretty much walk straight up to the car to notice.

If only I had paid more attention that morning, I felt like such an arse. Well I still do.

Anyway, back to the subject. For what you've got in the country you live in, it's probably a good deal.
 
TheCracker
A Cossie on Greek roads? - that sounds like a bad combination, i got myself into enough trouble in a 1.1 Opel Corsa last time i was in Greece.
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I think a car that has punch has more of a chance of escaping the typical mediterranean driver than one that can't go.

Unless you mean the road condition, seeing as I use the motorway 95% of the time, its no problem even though motorway road condition standards in Greece are the same as 2 meter wide village backup road in britain.
 
The Sierra was sold as the Merkur XR4Ti here in the states.
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say what?!
well, no wonder they kinda flopped. I never saw one on the streets, here. and from what reviews I did read, nobody liked it...or new what the hell to make out of "merkur"
but, then again, it was probably the fact that it was European sized.
 
Combustion
On a side note, I beat my friend's new BMW Z4 3.0 today :)
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Hairdressers never make good drivers anyway - they spend too much time looking in the mirror
 
Sniffs
say what?!
well, no wonder they kinda flopped. I never saw one on the streets, here. and from what reviews I did read, nobody liked it...or new what the hell to make out of "merkur"
but, then again, it was probably the fact that it was European sized.
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They also sold the Ford Scorpio here from 1988 to 1989 as the Merkur Scorpio. A guy a few blocks from me owns two, and he just bought a Five Hundred. So many brands have failed in the last fifteen years - people tend to forget stuff like Merkur and Geo.
 
And Asuna.

Somebody at a mechanic shop a few blocks away used to have an XR4Ti. They're kinda ugly.
Good thing they were a mechanic, too, those cars reputedly break a lot.
 
One of my neighbors tried to sell their Scorpio a while back... except they were asking over $2000 for a car with close to 300k miles on it. Not sure where the hell they got that price from :p
 

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