What if GT3 was on PSX...?

  • Thread starter MadMax97
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505
Italy
Italy
If PD made GT3 on PS1/PSX instead of PS2? I heard kaz in 1999/2000 when gt2 released, he wanted to make the sequel GT3 on PS1 hardware but then he changed his mind and brought development to PS2. Well, supposing he delayed ps2 and made GT3 on PS1 instead, how the game would look on PS1? How it would differ from GT2 on same PS1 hardware? Would be any room of improvement possible on an aging hardware as PlayStation 1 back then?



How you would you imagine it? Would be possible to improve graphics, physics, gameplay, realism and content further?
 
10,511
Australia
Australia
I_IGrayfoxI_I
The PS1 is limited by CDs capacity,
GT3 is about 3.4GiB in size, now even if you were to lower the texture and model quality down to PS1 levels.
It would exceed 700MB.
GT2 was already at about 680MB.

Now to combat the capacity issue.
Many games came out on multiple discs such as Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid.
As a game GT would not have really been able to use mutliple CDs.
 
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The PS1 is limited by CDs capacity,
GT3 is about 3.4GiB in size, now even if you were to lower the texture and model quality down to PS1 levels.
It would exceed 700MB.
GT2 was already at about 680MB.

All of the car models and textures in GT2 take up less than 200MB of the disc, adding more actually wouldn't be a problem in terms of space. GT2 itself was only on two discs because of the Arcade intro movie - both it and the GT mode menu background images (which are duplicated for all 5 PAL languages) don't quite fit on one disc at the same time.

Regarding GT3, what takes up a large proportion of the disc space is the full resolution videos used for the Arcade menus, track previews, intro / ending movies and so on. Second to that is the tracks - instead of using a small number of tiny tiled textures like on PS1, they have tons of high-res unique textures all over the tracks as the hardware finally had the RAM to do so.

I'd be surprised if there was ever any serious effort put into planning a third GT game on PS1 though - even GT2 was developed with an eye to porting it to PS2 as GT2000, but when PD realised that was infeasible it was trimmed down to GT2000: A-spec, which became GT3 when they missed their release date target.
 
505
Italy
Italy
All of the car models and textures in GT2 take up less than 200MB of the disc, adding more actually wouldn't be a problem in terms of space. GT2 itself was only on two discs because of the Arcade intro movie - both it and the GT mode menu background images (which are duplicated for all 5 PAL languages) don't quite fit on one disc at the same time.

Regarding GT3, what takes up a large proportion of the disc space is the full resolution videos used for the Arcade menus, track previews, intro / ending movies and so on. Second to that is the tracks - instead of using a small number of tiny tiled textures like on PS1, they have tons of high-res unique textures all over the tracks as the hardware finally had the RAM to do so.

I'd be surprised if there was ever any serious effort put into planning a third GT game on PS1 though - even GT2 was developed with an eye to porting it to PS2 as GT2000, but when PD realised that was infeasible it was trimmed down to GT2000: A-spec, which became GT3 when they missed their release date target.



True, the videos and full resolution video menus and preview can be avoided by simple put a menu system like GT2 without animated videos or FMV or something so they can spare CD space. The FMV intro would be only at start of the game, but that's all (and maybe less detail like ps1 gt2 intro to save space)In my opinion maybe one possibility would be make GT3 on PS1 very similar to GT2 with same engine (very similar graphics with some improvements if possible), driving dynamics with some improvements and similar style and better atmosphere.

For disc space might maybe be possible using 4 CD for the game (some PS1 games had 4 cd's) and in 2 discs put simulation mode (divide them in part 1 and part 2 like driver, chrono chross, final fantasy etc.) and do the same for arcade mode (another 2 discs with part 1 and 2) so 4 CD's (2 for sim mode and 2 for arcade mode) which is like 2.5-2.8 GB together (650-700 MB for each disc).....



The improvements over GT2: better career, menu style (dealerships in same map without city dealership division, put all manufacturer together in one city), improve physics, sounds, opponents AI pushing ps1 over limits porting all cars from gt1 and gt2 and adding some new, add gt auto change oil option and mileage system, qualify option, similar license as GT2 but with less stages adding even rally license, maybe some completely new cars, options and tracks too with all we had in GT2 (ported to 3) but better career mode, better enhanced rally mode (like they did on PS2) and maybe some new few improvements for example driving assist system and gforce....implement the league system in career as in actual ps2 game we have now (beginner, expert, professional classification and many events for each unlocking them with licenses) with same license and progress system like PS2 GT3, instead of classical GT2 events horsepower system put it only in some events and not in every one and balance championships with single races events to make it more appealing. Improve car perfomance classification too and maybe add a drag racing event system (which they skipped in GT2 due to time costraints).

Arcade mode can be improved making it similar to GT3 system with also time trials and some bonuses, and in sim mode improve the tuning system as in ps2 version of gt3, compared to GT2 on PS1.
Maybe add some new tracks and cars combined with what they already ported from GT2. The graphics could be enhanced maybe cleaning the textures a bit but wouldn't except a big improvement because PS1 was pretty close to it's absolute limit, but maybe slight upgrade with improved tiny PS1 textures and some shadow and lightning boost. Maybe some driving physics and sounds improvements as well. It would be similar to GT2 though but better.


Physics could be similar but slightly improved making the car harder to control and more prone to spin out and drift as in GT3 with also better ATCS and TC and even assist steering. Sounds improvements would be possible too maybe. Of course keeping the racing modifications for the majority of cars too from GT2 and the manufacturer races, endurance races, rally, GT league in three leagues with championships and single event mix etc.


This is my own theory. What do you think?
 
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10,511
Australia
Australia
I_IGrayfoxI_I
For disc space might maybe be possible using 4 CD for the game (some PS1 games had 4 cd's) and in 2 discs put simulation mode (divide them in part 1 and part 2 like driver, chrono chross, final fantasy etc.) and do the same for arcade mode (another 2 discs with part 1 and 2) so 4 CD's (2 for sim mode and 2 for arcade mode) which is like 2.5-2.8 GB together (650-700 MB for each disc).....

You cant really split GT sim mode into multiple CDs

Driver was a story mode game hence 2 CDs, same with Metal Gear Solid & Final Fantasy had a bigger story and world so it had to be on 4 CDs.
But with each of these games, you cant go back to earlier places(most of the time), with GT you can do sunday cup any time you feel like it.

In GT you're not limited by any story, well GT6 did have an advancement system in place but that was not around in GT2 and GT3.
Heck, when I got all gold in GT2 license tests, i jumped straight to the endurance racing.
When I got all gold licenses in GT1 I took the Nismo 400R and went into the Normal Car Cup.

GT3 race menu had the following events
Beginner, Amateur, Professional, Rally, Endurance.

Each had cars, tracks, and AI difficulty for that level of event.
Not fully sure on how it is set up internally.

But it is most likely script based and scripts use kB of space,
Use X track run in Y direction
Use X cars from carlist with Y set ups
Use X level difficulty for AI
Award X credits, award Y vehicle, in Z color, if finish in 1st.

For instance the MX-5 endurance on Apricot Hill
One of the AI was a MX-5 1.8i & it always ran Super Soft Tires so it pitted every 3 laps & the AI was rather easy to beat even(if your car was a 1.6 MX-5 & you were using stock tires)
You won 100,000cr for first and the prize cars were Mazda MX-5 (89), Mazda MX-5 (93), Mazda MX-5 1.8RS or Polyphony 002

Another reason a decent chunk of space was used by CD Audio for music which GT3 had more of compared to GT2, GT does make up some space by not having as many vehicles compared to GT2, GT2 had 3.5x more vehicles.
 
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The improvements over GT2: ... menu style (dealerships in same map without city dealership division, put all manufacturer together in one city), improve physics, sounds, opponents AI pushing ps1 over limits
...
in sim mode improve the tuning system as in ps2 version of gt3, compared to GT2 on PS1.

The GT Mode menus were already pushing the limits of readability with the size of the text on each dealership to cram in everything in North City. You'd have to halve the text size to fit everything in one page, and at the tiny resolution of the PS1 it just wouldn't be legible, simply a blur of pixels.

There's probably a small scope for physics and sound improvements, but I think anything major would be really pushing the PS1. PD were already having to use tricks like a single shared sound for all AI cars to avoid running out of RAM.

Each had cars, tracks, and AI difficulty for that level of event.
Not fully sure on how it is set up internally.

But it is most likely script based and scripts use kB of space,
Use X track run in Y direction
Use X cars from carlist with Y set ups
Use X level difficulty for AI
Award X credits, award Y vehicle, in Z color, if finish in 1st.

It's not script-based, but you're on the right sort of lines, it's all data-driven. Each event is 156 bytes of data, with each opponent setup being 60 bytes, albeit with opponents shared between multiple events. The only thing you've listed that GT2 can't do is giving a specific car colour as a prize - that was added in GT3. There's also AI grip and rubberband multipliers, plus tyre wear configuration, and restrictions on which cars can be entered.
 
505
Italy
Italy
The GT Mode menus were already pushing the limits of readability with the size of the text on each dealership to cram in everything in North City. You'd have to halve the text size to fit everything in one page, and at the tiny resolution of the PS1 it just wouldn't be legible, simply a blur of pixels.

There's probably a small scope for physics and sound improvements, but I think anything major would be really pushing the PS1. PD were already having to use tricks like a single shared sound for all AI cars to avoid running out of RAM.



It's not script-based, but you're on the right sort of lines, it's all data-driven. Each event is 156 bytes of data, with each opponent setup being 60 bytes, albeit with opponents shared between multiple events. The only thing you've listed that GT2 can't do is giving a specific car colour as a prize - that was added in GT3. There's also AI grip and rubberband multipliers, plus tyre wear configuration, and restrictions on which cars can be entered.


I agree 100%