What would you define as a CLEAN RACE?

  • Thread starter TheBuG
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TheBuG

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apethebug
I know this is all down to one and anothers opinion or if they are having a good or bad day.
After driving against others online I have now just been kicked from a race.
Well ok so i did push that guy so he ended up on the grass. It's not as if I felt good doing it.

A thing I have noticed (and this was cool observing) that I know my cars limit at many corners on Nurburgering and other people dont dare to go as fast as me in some corners and often its the other way around so it was easy to see what corners I could improve.
My point is that when i come up to a corner I know how fast i should go and then of course the other guy infront of me is not going that fast and it is bound to be some bumping here and there. (This also has something to do with the car and the car setup of course).

The reason i'm writing this is because I want to hear others opinion!
Is there like a rule here? Should I break behind the car and blink with my lights and then wait for him\her to move over and wave me along? I mean come on! Get out of my way! :D

And another thing, I mostly join servers that says clean race and have hp\weight regulations cause I love a good fight with other good drivers! It's alot more fun then playing aspec against ps3 ai.

I'm not saying anything is right or wrong but it's easy to feel a bit unfair treated when you get kicked or people start swearing cause they ended up on the gravel or grass.
It's a race and and you race to win most of the time. Mistakes and crashes happen!

And I gotta admit too, it's easy to get caught up in the chase and getting a bit to carried away so I havent been a nice boy all the time, but I try.
I dont like being on the grass or gravel myself :) I guess it's just fair to play the rules when you join a server hehe.

Pheww, that was good gettin that all out! Next one! ... Peace. :)
 
If you make a mistake, apologise for it or let the other guy back through (if you cut the chicane at Monza etc). A true clean race is almost impossible in real life, let alone in a game that can lag a lot.
 
Oh i hate it when someone brakes to much on nords when im right behind them not ready for it as i know its a full throttle corner an i get blamed lol
 
Basically if you can't overtake without doing it cleanly, you don't try. That rule will keep you out of trouble if you follow it.



Aside from that, if you are behind someone and coming up faster to a turn than the person in front is, and you try to shoot through the hole between them and the inside of the corner, so that when they try to make their turn they end up turning into you, which then creates a situation where they're going to understeer right off the track, you just did something dirty, fact.


The biggest issues with people online for me are the fact that they try to overtake in corner situations where there's really only room for one car, or if there is room they don't try to do it at a proper speed and so one person gets jacked because of it.

And they also will overtake you and then try to drive super clean and end up slamming their brakes way too early in a position that makes no sense and so you accidentally ram the heck out of them if you are behind them. This contact is unavoidable usually because the guy in back has no chance. People end up brake-checking other drivers unintentionally I think, but it's still not clean driving.



It comes down to making a conscientious effort to be considerate of any driver around you and to aim for a race with no contact, whether you are winning or trailing. If you respectfully do this, clean racing is almost always the byproduct.
 
I agree that mistakes do happen even in clean racing, it is to be expected but what is really really anoying me at the moment is the X2010 hooligans who go round entering rooms and smash into everyone for their own entertainment. Hopefully more people will realise they can ban these yobbo machines in the regulations
 
GTlondoner
Oh i hate it when someone brakes to much on nords when im right behind them not ready for it as i know its a full throttle corner an i get blamed lol
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You get blamed for it because that is 100% your fault...

You have no idea how that person's car is setup. You have no idea how fast a driver that driver is. You have no idea if maybe that driver simply prefers a different line that you do or doesn't know the track yet. It is absolutely YOUR responsibility not to slam into the driver ahead. Even if you are a much better, much faster driver and know the track better. Even if your car has much better grip or you set it up better. None of that matters. If you do this online, apologize (if you have a mic), slow-down, and let the person you just wrecked get back on-track ahead of you.

As far as what I consider a clean race. I drive TRY to drive all races, whether online or offline, as I would in real-life. That means I would prefer no "offs" and no contact whatsoever. However, as long as it is only the slightest bump or only a brief off with 2 tires, I don't consider it a failure on my part.
 
Ok, my opinion is that if you hit the back of someone going into a corner it's your fault, even though it's might not be deliberate it's your responsibility to be ready for the car in front braking because you know they'll have to brake at some point. It's frustrating being stuck behind a slower driver but it's racing and they have no obligation to yield to you, it's down to you to find a chance to overtake cleanly. If you hit the back of someone because they brake checked you unexpectedly on a straight, it's their fault they got hit.

That's the rules I stick to.
 
Yesterday someone said over chat that someone cut the second chicane at Monza, and he said "yeah I cut it." So I kicked him, also if you hit someone off of the track because you can't hold a line than you should let that person get in front of you.
 
Faster guys do have to recognize that the slower guys may need to brake more in the corners. Not everyone is as fast, and not everyone has a well-tuned car. If they're patient, they'll see that and adjust for it.

Assuming that everybody brakes the same doesn't work. If real drivers did that, we'd see LMP cars smashing into the back of GT cars all the time.

So, yes, if you're making moves that push other drivers off the track, then you're not picking your passing opportunities wisely.

We run 70 minute races in Forza every week, with 7 or 8 drivers in two classes. Very few incidents, but some pretty hard racing.
 
SS_1182
Basically if you can't overtake without doing it cleanly, you don't try. That rule will keep you out of trouble if you follow it.



Aside from that, if you are behind someone and coming up faster to a turn than the person in front is, and you try to shoot through the hole between them and the inside of the corner, so that when they try to make their turn they end up turning into you, which then creates a situation where they're going to understeer right off the track, you just did something dirty, fact.


The biggest issues with people online for me are the fact that they try to overtake in corner situations where there's really only room for one car, or if there is room they don't try to do it at a proper speed and so one person gets jacked because of it.

And they also will overtake you and then try to drive super clean and end up slamming their brakes way too early in a position that makes no sense and so you accidentally ram the heck out of them if you are behind them. This contact is unavoidable usually because the guy in back has no chance. People end up brake-checking other drivers unintentionally I think, but it's still not clean driving.



It comes down to making a conscientious effort to be considerate of any driver around you and to aim for a race with no contact, whether you are winning or trailing. If you respectfully do this, clean racing is almost always the byproduct.
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+1 to this post. Just because you can stuff it down in the corner and "accidently" make contact I see that as poor driving on the guy that tried to stuff it.

To me some incidental contact on the sides will be ok if you dont thump me out of my line. But if you stuff it into a corner and then side slam me and I no longer can make the turn without really altering my input then you are no longer driving clean.
 
TheBuG
A thing I have noticed (and this was cool observing) that I know my cars limit at many corners on Nurburgering and other people dont dare to go as fast as me in some corners and often its the other way around so it was easy to see what corners I could improve.
My point is that when i come up to a corner I know how fast i should go and then of course the other guy infront of me is not going that fast and it is bound to be some bumping here and there. (This also has something to do with the car and the car setup of course).
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Just because you are faster than the car infront, doesn't mean it's their fault because they braked early. You should allow for the fact the car infront is slower, and if they really are slower, then you should be able to get past them without bumping.

The Nurburgring is a tricky track to pass on, but that just means you have to be more patient.

A clean race is one were you don't take illegal short cuts, you try to avoid contact whilst overtaking, mistakes obviously happen, but if someone is knocked off the track as a result of you contacting them in an overtake, then you should oblige to wait and give them the place back before resuming racing.
 
jjaisli
This is what I would define as clean: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3176790&postcount=1
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I was just looking for them & couldn't find them, prehaps they should be in an easier to find place, maybe they could be copied & set to sticky in the Online Racing sub forum? They also need updating for GT5, hehe!

Other smaller forums have their own sets of rules that they race to & if everyone chooses to stick to them the racing is clean & fair for the most part. I have a similar set of rules, but more concise, that I text to all friends on my list, works as long as everyone chooses to stick to them, if they don't they get deleted, mwuhahahahaaaa!

http://ronin-gt.net/index.php?topic=9.0

http://www.gtdrivers.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=12&pid=15#pid15



👍
 
trk29
Yesterday someone said over chat that someone cut the second chicane at Monza, and he said "yeah I cut it." So I kicked him, also if you hit someone off of the track because you can't hold a line than you should let that person get in front of you.
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If you're talking about cutting it by going over the green area on that chicane then this is a rule that should be stated before the race starts as the Sebastian Vettel challenge at Monza defines this tactic as clean, hence no disqualification when you do it. What I normally do when I'm hosting races at this course is make it clear that people will be booted if they attempt to leave the actual race track at the second chicane. It saves a lot of confusion.
 
GAHmusic
I agree that mistakes do happen even in clean racing, it is to be expected but what is really really anoying me at the moment is the X2010 hooligans who go round entering rooms and smash into everyone for their own entertainment. Hopefully more people will realise they can ban these yobbo machines in the regulations
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Hell Yeah! I havent played much online yet but I joined a server with a x1 guy ramming and waiting and ramming and waiting and ramming, it was so fun i quit the server 👍 idiot!

Btw, many good comments, got a feel on where the general standpoint is to clean racing and it sounds like a challenge to stick to all of the rules but that makes it even more fun when you are racing.
The more effort that goes to the race for winning it makes it that more fun to WIN!
 
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Bearcats
+1 to this post. Just because you can stuff it down in the corner and "accidently" make contact I see that as poor driving on the guy that tried to stuff it.

To me some incidental contact on the sides will be ok if you dont thump me out of my line. But if you stuff it into a corner and then side slam me and I no longer can make the turn without really altering my input then you are no longer driving clean.
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Side contact is often unavoidable since you can have no real sense of where the other guy is once he's out of view of your rear view mirror. I see slight side contact as part and parcel of the game, unless it's being deliberately used to gain an unfair advantage.
 
nismo33
The forum is great but jees im glad i dont race with you guys. What a load of tosh that is
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I guess i'm glad I don't race with you either! I read those rules and they're no more stringent than anywhere else where clean drivers would participate!

EDIT: The OLR rules are actually pretty stringent! I was referring to the two links posted below that, which are a lot more concise and provide what i'd consider a good framework for good sportsmanship in an online race :)
 
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nismo33
The forum is great but jees im glad i dont race with you guys. What a load of tosh that is
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The OLR rules, if followed to the letter, can be a bit extreme. But if everybody in the lobby strives to abide by them, it makes for a much better experience.
 
panjandrum
You get blamed for it because that is 100% your fault...

You have no idea how that person's car is setup. You have no idea how fast a driver that driver is. You have no idea if maybe that driver simply prefers a different line that you do or doesn't know the track yet. It is absolutely YOUR responsibility not to slam into the driver ahead. Even if you are a much better, much faster driver and know the track better. Even if your car has much better grip or you set it up better. None of that matters. If you do this online, apologize (if you have a mic), slow-down, and let the person you just wrecked get back on-track ahead of you.
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So im pulling to 1 side making it clear i want to pass then the driver in front pulls in front of me then brakes on a corner you clearly don't need to brake on no matter what the set up is.
Being overly defensive blocking and brake checking at 160-190mph and that's my fault
LOL ok

and when did i say i kept driviing an left them
even if its not my fault i always wait an let who ever is was back in front even if there slowing me down

hell i move out the way for faster drivers an try catch their draft to make me lil faster
i even stay on the grass if i go off an wait till i can pull on the track cleanly

you have no idea how i drive
 
Stephen220378
Side contact is often unavoidable since you can have no real sense of where the other guy is once he's out of view of your rear view mirror. I see slight side contact as part and parcel of the game, unless it's being deliberately used to gain an unfair advantage.
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Oh agreed there is some rubbing that just happens. On average you can tell when someone is stuffing your or when its a "Uh oh..I'm to hot and this isn't going to be pretty".

There are a lot of times a person turning a slow tight turn will be able to duck low and there will be contact. No harm there. However, if I am defending the low line through the corner and have two wheels off the track and you STILL go lower than that and thump me, well I dont find that polite.

And rules are there for a reason. In a world of instant gratification and a "me first" mentality you have to create rules. One of the best ways to figure out a room is to ask "What are the home court rules?". If you dont like em you can find another room.

I like hearing rules about no chicane cutting. This is where a different game excels. Go ahead and cut the chicane and see you are not going any faster. Clean racing is adhering to the idea of sportsmanship like racing.
 
SS_1182
Are you serious? Have you ever read the rules for professional racing events in real life?



Just, wow.
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It was all going well until i saw this .......


If a driver wants to retire from a race, the driver concerned must not exit the race. The driver must find a position on the track where the driver will not endanger other drivers, park their car by pressing "start" and wait for the race to end. Keep in mind that your car may start to move when the start button is pressed. Place your car on a position where this movement won't cause any problems for drivers who are still racing.

Whoever thought that up, is in my opinion is nothing more than a control freak
 
nismo33
It was all going well until i saw this .......


If a driver wants to retire from a race, the driver concerned must not exit the race. The driver must find a position on the track where the driver will not endanger other drivers, park their car by pressing "start" and wait for the race to end. Keep in mind that your car may start to move when the start button is pressed. Place your car on a position where this movement won't cause any problems for drivers who are still racing.

Whoever thought that up, is in my opinion is nothing more than a control freak
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Not that big of a deal. We're not talking about casual races. These rules apply to the Weekly Race Series, which people submit qualifying times for, replays are reviewed, etc. People who are there WANT to be there, the events are taken seriously, and I'm quite sure that if someone absolutely had to back out of the race they could so with no real hassles. A rule like that would be extreme for a casual event, yes.
 
I try to follow as closely as I can to avoid, avoidable contact.

However, if I'm not racing against proficient drivers (Read, new guys who shut off ABS and Driving line) sometimes, contact can not be avoided.

It is the responsibility of trailing driver to do everything realistically possible to avoid contact and confrontation, but if a driver didn't pump his brakes, and slams them on a mile early, I will not hesitate to put him in a position where he eats armco. I would still classify it as "Clean" racing. Even if iracing disagrees.



Not cutting corners, pulling to one side, consistently, if your lapped traffic (If you go left when being lapped once, you better do it again) and relinquishing position if you took it in any manner other then sportsmanlike (cut corner, contact, below the pass line ect)


Also, if you can't hang with a driver and maintain control of your car, back off and pace behind him. There's nothing worse then being side by side with someone trying really hard to wreck.
 
GTlondoner
Oh i hate it when someone brakes to much on nords when im right behind them not ready for it as i know its a full throttle corner an i get blamed lol
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Right. But in real life, that's an accident. You HIT someone, your car will be crippled. Doesn't matter if there is a reason or not the guy in front brakes. You follow someone and you hit them, its your fault. And that's not clean.
 
Had an incident in a race with people I know recently which could fit in here. We're coming out of the first tunnel at Grand Valley, I#ve been quicker for a good lap and a half but delayed a pass because he was keeping the driving line. So we're coming out the funnel, he runs wide, I'm close enough overtake, I now have the inside line, make minimal contact and some weird lag seems to stutter and then throws him into the barriers hard as if I'd punted him directly behind from 200mph. Regardless, I got blamed where I felt I shouldn't. It's racing, if you see an opportunity, you believe you'll come out best, take it. If not, man up and take it as the game it is and that racing online in a game or real life is competitive.

People are way too anal about rules and being kind. I'm no punter and I do race clean, but if I see a gap and I'm favourite thanks to your mistake, yeah, cheers I'll take it, even if you run wide because of it. Mistakes are there to be capitalized upon.
 
foxfai
Right. But in real life, that's an accident. You HIT someone, your car will be crippled. Doesn't matter if there is a reason or not the guy in front brakes. You follow someone and you hit them, its your fault. And that's not clean.
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Hypothetical situation.

You are third, trailing second, in the laterace. Its Monza, and the braking point is the 200 marker. The second place car you're trailing is in full brake lock with massive front bias at the 500 marker.

You could lift, pull out of line, blow the chicane entry, and likely your chance at the race, worse if you blow the chicane, come up in front of the driver, and take both of you out. Or you could hold your line and drive through him, suffering a dent in your front bumper.

Sometimes its not avoidable. Blame can't be assessed for simply following a driver and hitting them.
 
TheBuG
A thing I have noticed (and this was cool observing) that I know my cars limit at many corners on Nurburgering and other people dont dare to go as fast as me in some corners and often its the other way around so it was easy to see what corners I could improve.
My point is that when i come up to a corner I know how fast i should go and then of course the other guy infront of me is not going that fast and it is bound to be some bumping here and there. (This also has something to do with the car and the car setup of course).
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Do you mean you are aware of the items above at the time of the incident? If so, I would boot your sorry a#$e from the lobby, too!
You cannot use people as mobile bumpers on purpose regardless of how fast/slow they are in the corner.

If you meant you were not aware that the pilot ahead of you was much slower in the corner until it was too late and you bumped him then I would chalk it up as a racing incident. If you did it again I would boot you. watch some real life races, even in F1 when a fast pilot gets stuck behind a slow pilot he won't bump him if the slower pilot is going defensive.
 
My version of a clean race:

You must try to keep at least 1 tire on the track at all times.

No collisions with the purpose to slow down your car down dramatically or throw another other car off the track.

Cutting people off, ect. is smiled upon.
 

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