Wheel Snobbery

M

MeWhiteNoise

142
MeWhiteNoise
Who?
I've noticed recently since the August 1st update, that there alot of angry people complaining about PD 'dumbing down' the physics, and the target of alot of this anger seems to be directed at us sixasxis/ds3 users. Can those people please remember that if it wasn't for us poor, dumb ol' pad users that if we didn't purchase the games too, then there more than likely wouldn't be a game in the first place, after all, PD are a business, and they have to shift units to survive. Some posts even seem to be implying that we are effectively second class citizens as we don't play with wheels and don't even deserve to be catered for. I simply can't justify having a wheel setup - we have a 3 bedroom house which all the rooms are used, and have an 19 month old daughter so having a heffing great big cockpit in the lounge infront of our plasma is basically out of the question, however much I'd like one. This however doesn't mean that I'm a casual player who spends nights online punting people off left, right and centre because I can't control a car with my DS which I actually drive with my nose and really prefer playing burnout and NFS. I'm not implying that the game should be dumbed down however, and totally agree with constructive posts asking for a three tier level of simulation - arcade, pro & sim/wheel, just please be considerate when posting.

Thanks,

Dom :)
 
MeWhiteNoise
I've noticed recently since the August 1st update, that there alot of angry people complaining about PD 'dumbing down' the physics, and the target of alot of this anger seems to be directed at us sixasxis/ds3 users. Can those people please remember that if it wasn't for us poor, dumb ol' pad users that if we didn't purchase the games too, then there more than likely wouldn't be a game in the first place, after all, PD are a business, and they have to shift units to survive. Some posts even seem to be implying that we are effectively second class citizens as we don't play with wheels and don't even deserve to be catered for. I simply can't justify having a wheel setup - we have a 3 bedroom house which all the rooms are used, and have an 19 month old daughter so having a heffing great big cockpit in the lounge infront of our plasma is basically out of the question, however much I'd like one. This however doesn't mean that I'm a casual player who spends nights online punting people off left, right and centre because I can't control a car with my DS which I actually drive with my nose and really prefer playing burnout and NFS. I'm not implying that the game should be dumbed down however, and totally agree with constructive posts asking for a three tier level of simulation - arcade, pro & sim/wheel, just please be considerate when posting.

Thanks,

Dom :)
Click to expand...


I dont agree with you. I dont see it aimed at us (sixaxis / g25 user). People are complaining about it because their wheels dont feel the same as before. I have seen alot of respect on this forum for people using sixaxis. For example, last night slicecom (wheel user) was saying how good Ardius (sixaxis) was with a controller.

I myself have never thought people 'look down' on them because they dont have a wheel.
 
I've noticed there are a lot of members here who don't think you can fully experience the game without a wheel. I, for one, dislike using a wheel with the game and it takes the fun out of it. Yes I have a wheel, a Logitech MOMO one, but I only use it on the PC when I feel like doing some laps in GTR2. GT never seemed to feel right to me with a wheel because it didn't give me the same feedback a real car's wheel did.

Gaming for me is all about my enjoyment in it, if I'm not having fun then what is the point of the game?
 
The physics are much more realistic now though, if they want a real driving experience put on N2 tyres and away you go. I can still get my Corvette sideways easily enough on S3 tyres, but it's not BS like before. They've just got to get used to it, before was a load of crap, now it's proper.
 
MeWhiteNoise
I'm not implying that the game should be dumbed down however, and totally agree with constructive posts asking for a three tier level of simulation - arcade, pro & sim/wheel, just please be considerate when posting.
Click to expand...
Excellent idea!
I think the whole pointing the finger thing is perceived from the fact that the first post to disagree with a wheel users disappiontment was from a guy using a DS and it just snowballed from there.

Ps My daugters 22months old and both her and my wifes banished from the house and sent to my inlawes for dinner on Tuesday nites for me and the cousins to race online with the G25 all nite.......now to get her to just agree to Thursdays as well:nervous:
 
nd 4 holden spd
The physics are much more realistic now though, if they want a real driving experience put on N2 tyres and away you go. I can still get my Corvette sideways easily enough on S3 tyres, but it's not BS like before. They've just got to get used to it, before was a load of crap, now it's proper.
Click to expand...

It's not that the physics aren't real, it's that the wheel doesn't feel real and it never will in a game. All the force feedback in the world can't simulate how a real wheel feels.
 
Actually I do understand where he is getting at. He is not crazy to think this. I think it is just wrong to think less skilled users as 2nd class citizens. It is not just pad users that are getting a hit here. So many of us are blaming the less skilled players for the physics change. He really hit the nail right on the head when he said: "PD is a business". They are here to do one thing, and that is to make money. Besides them being a business; PD is going to cater to the masses. If the majority of the players don;t like how the car grips, then its in PD best interest to change that.

Now I will have to agree with the notion that our game has become too easy. I did like how the cars gripped before. Even so, I pose the question: What can you really do about it? And the answer is: Nothing. You have three choices.

1. Play the game and shut up
2. Play the game and waste your time protesting about something you cannot do anything about.
3. Don't play the game again

Personally I like option one. Which is much more civilized and easier on my blood pressure when I don't get upset about things I cannot do a thing about.
 
Joey D
It's not that the physics aren't real, it's that the wheel doesn't feel real and it never will in a game. All the force feedback in the world can't simulate how a real wheel feels.
Click to expand...

Are people not whinging about the illeged "dombed down" physics though? More like "wisened up" physics.:sly:
 
nd 4 holden spd
Are people not whinging about the illeged "dombed down" physics though? More like "wisened up" physics.:sly:
Click to expand...

I honestly can't tell, nor do I really care what the physics are like. GT has never been about the physics for me, they are close enough but I know they aren't perfect.
 
Even though I have a 52" LCD HDTV in my living room, I have my G25 set-up permanently in a corner of my home office with a 19" HDTV, a Buttkicker & headphones. I would rather use my wheel than the big TV (I would say that the ideal size for the TV would be 22" - 26", but I use my 19" for travelling also, so 19" is more practical).

There are clearly some great pad drivers out there - using a wheel is more about increasing the immersion & fun than improving results IMO.
 
Honestly, I don't look down on people who use sixaxis - I admire them and there are some GREAT ones out there. We're talkin about a game here that "simulates" life - the wheel is nice to have but not a necessity. Me personally, I can't compete without it.
 
It all depends on the skill of the person whos using a wheel, and that of the person using a pad. In my opinion, a skilled pad user can do better than an average wheel user.
 
Biggles
Even though I have a 52" LCD HDTV in my living room, I have my G25 set-up permanently in a corner of my home office with a 19" HDTV, a Buttkicker & headphones. I would rather use my wheel than the big TV (I would say that the ideal size for the TV would be 22" - 26", but I use my 19" for travelling also, so 19" is more practical).

There are clearly some great pad drivers out there - using a wheel is more about increasing the immersion & fun than improving results IMO.
Click to expand...


I disagree about the ideal size..

I researched this thoroughly and decided to get a 32" 1080p tv for gaming only.

I have it sitting on a computer desk with the wheel mounted directly infront. I have a keyboard tray underneath and the TV works as a GREAT monitor too. (pixels are 25% larger than 19"LCD) I actually have my computer hooked up to it. Yes its 5x the price of a 19" LCD.. but i think i will be keeping this baby for many many years...

Regarding space.. the wheel can slide left/right on the desk mount and never gets in the way. No need for a cockpit, i just sit on an office chair. All that is needed is a prop for the pedals so they dont slide away from you.

I think this is cheaper than getting a cockpit..

For the record i have a 1bedroom apartment, i am married and my wife doesn't mind the wheel mounted to the computer desk. Plus this way she can watch TV in the living room while i play elsewhere.
 
Biggles
Well, bigger may be better ;) but I would say not strictly necessary. Your set-up is basically the same concept as mine.
Click to expand...

no prior to getting the 32" LCD i had a 19" CRT on that same desk, and i used a VGA box to play GT4 on it.. i even output 16:9 to it so i had black bars on top and bottom. It was still playable.

With the 32" though the aspect ratio is pretty much perfect. When i play with the in cockpit view the steering wheel that i see on the screen is pretty much the same size as my DFP sitting right in front of me..

Although if you REALLY think about it.. the DFP is smaller than 99% of the cars in in GT5:P so if i had a realistic sized wheel then the screen could be bigger still.. like 37-40 inches and at this point it wouldn't make a great computer monitor and i would have to sit further back which would make it impossible to use my computer desk as a wheel mount.

I use interior view all the time and even with 50% of the screen taken up by the dash and headliner, the amount of screen space given to the track, is still 2x what i had with my 19"CRT with bumper cam..

so its not necessary... but its worth it.
 
I just bought a Driving Force GT and this thing is kicking my butt. It is TOUGH to use! I am trying to drive it like I have been using the pad since the update, no driving aids-pro physics. I can barely make it thorugh a turn without spinning out. And when it even starts to oversteer it is gone, the wheel starts spinning so fast I can't correct it. I need some help with driving this bad boy. I drive a 99 M3 IRL and have gotten her over 160 but this game is making me feel like I can't drive to save my life! Where is the Force Feedback driving lessons?
 
Do you often take your M3 at the speeds you do in the game? Throw in a few corners at speed? It's something practice with the wheel will improve over time. Driving with the gamepad isn't quite like driving with the wheel; either controller is able to do things that the other cannot do as easily. I would do a horrible job if I switched over to the Sixaxis. :)
 
I wish there was a driving instructional course for the wheel lol. I am stumped. This is really hard. All the crap I gave wheel guys about having a huge advantage, I am sorry. This thing takes alot of skill.
 
The wheel makes it more realistic. The normal wheel users complain about it because they are so used to Spec II where they can drive any car and handle it right.
 
i guess one piece of advice i can give you is.. dont be afraid to turn the wheel quickly! if the gears make noise its normal! I have been twisting the hell out of my wheel since i got it for GT4 and its still TIGHT and no problems. If you find that its too hard/easy to turn the wheel quickly as you could IRL for example.. adjust the feedback setting accordingly.

Also.. when the car starts to oversteer, the caster of the front suspension will pull on the wheel which will help you point the wheel in the direction of travel (slide) just remember not to let go completely!
 
What car are you attempting to drive? Try something less powerful and work back up.

I still have trouble with the Corvette without traction control.
 
Lol I am spinning out in the Cappuccino. This wheel is no joke. I WAS a little worried if I gripped it hard and tried to prevent it from spinning I would break it so I have just been letting it go when it spins out and let it do its wheel spin magically around thing. I will try and manhandle it some more. Thanks fasternfaster.
 
Sorry bud but in a way it is peoples fault. If nobody was bitching about how hard it was then the physics wouldnt have changed. And to me from what I have read its a bunch of pad users saying "how much easier it is to control the car now". Wich leads me to belive that it was the pad users who bitched and got it changed.

I use the G25 and with the old physics the cars where very hard to drive with a pad and easier with a wheel. But thats how it should be. I said it before if these where "real physcis" no way in hell you could control the car with a pad (thats why real cars use wheels).

Speaking of the G25 if it wasnt for pad and maybe some "otherwheel" users complaining they wouldnt have taken a feature away from the game known as powershifting. They had no right to take this away, but because people thought it gave an unfair speed advantage they limited what you could do with the wheel and the car. So it went from powershifting like you can in a real car to not being able to because pad/otherwheel users bitched.

Its a slippery slope, Next you wont be able to use the clutch because of some unfair advantage, then it will be the G25 itself.

Honestly I said it before and agree with you know there needs to be 3 physics systemes. AC, PR, SIM.

And in sim it states when you pick it "warning we dont suggest you use this unless you have a wheel". And make the car uncontrollable without one.

As for now I will not "look down" on pad users but I will blame them, And continue to watch them destroy whats left of this game.

And when Im talking about the pad users im talking about the 14yo kid who gets on, rail rides for a few mounths, then never plays the game again regardless. Not the people on everyday putting in an effort, those are the guys that didnt complain that just went out and ran it hard and did well.

So its less about pad vs. wheel and more about people who will work and put in an effort to get somthing and people who want it to be easy and come quick without working for it.

Its not just Poly though I said it before games have been getting dumbed down since around 2004 right when halo 2 came out. And they took away the health bar in favor of a regenerating health systeme.
 
Last edited:
TurkeyBurgers
I wish there was a driving instructional course for the wheel lol. I am stumped. This is really hard. All the crap I gave wheel guys about having a huge advantage, I am sorry. This thing takes alot of skill.
Click to expand...

Dont worry man... I made the switch last week to a DFP... and it does take some getting use to... but you'll get it... the hardest for me was geting the throttle control right... once you get that you will haul a$$.... again.. like with a pad.. LOL :sly:

Edit- Oh and play around with the force feedback settings in the menus... I like it on 10... but thats my preference :)
 
I for one dont look down on non wheel users becuase i enjoyed using the pad for all those years before i even checked out a wheel. I do however find that user of the wheel are usually (not always though) smoother drivers and more fun to race with but I dont consider my non wheel buddies out there inferrior to me on the track its just a different way of experiencing the game right? I am disappointing they took out the powershifting but other then that the new feel with the wheel is alright, even if it is easier now.
 
Juice476
I use the G25 and with the old physics the cars where very hard to drive with a pad and easier with a wheel. But thats how it should be. I said it before if these where "real physcis" no way in hell you could control the car with a pad (thats why real cars use wheels).
Click to expand...

Ummm I beg to differ... I was using a pad with the old physics and I didnt find them TOO hard to control... I was pretty quick actually.. and always played pro races and pro physics... then a week before the update I got a wheel... (DFP) and it was hard at first... but got the hang of that within 2 days and was doing the same times if not faster with the wheel but I'm good with both... so to say that it was very hard then must apply to you? No offense intended here by the way.... but if youve been using a pad since GT1... well then you are pretty skilled with a pad if youve played enough and as intense as Ive played the GT series games... I do however admit that with a wheel you can be faster! because I am a bit faster now with the wheel then the controller... :)
 
Juice476
Sorry bud but in a way it is peoples fault. If nobody was bitching about how hard it was then the physics wouldnt have changed. And to me from what I have read its a bunch of pad users saying "how much easier it is to control the car now". Wich leads me to belive that it was the pad users who bitched and got it changed.

I use the G25 and with the old physics the cars where very hard to drive with a pad and easier with a wheel. But thats how it should be. I said it before if these where "real physcis" no way in hell you could control the car with a pad (thats why real cars use wheels).

Speaking of the G25 if it wasnt for pad and maybe some "otherwheel" users complaining they wouldnt have taken a feature away from the game known as powershifting. They had no right to take this away, but because people thought it gave an unfair speed advantage they limited what you could do with the wheel and the car. So it went from powershifting like you can in a real car to not being able to because pad/otherwheel users bitched.

Its a slippery slope, Next you wont be able to use the clutch because of some unfair advantage, then it will be the G25 itself.

Honestly I said it before and agree with you know there needs to be 3 physics systemes. AC, PR, SIM.

And in sim it states when you pick it "warning we dont suggest you use this unless you have a wheel". And make the car uncontrollable without one.

As for now I will not "look down" on pad users but I will blame them, And continue to watch them destroy whats left of this game.

And when Im talking about the pad users im talking about the 14yo kid who gets on, rail rides for a few mounths, then never plays the game again regardless. Not the people on everyday putting in an effort, those are the guys that didnt complain that just went out and ran it hard and did well.

So its less about pad vs. wheel and more about people who will work and put in an effort to get somthing and people who want it to be easy and come quick without working for it.

Its not just Poly though I said it before games have been getting dumbed down since around 2004 right when halo 2 came out. And they took away the health bar in favor of a regenerating health systeme.
Click to expand...

so people that cant afford a superdeluxe wheel should have a harder time playing the game ... yeah right. The game should be doable with a sixaxis or dualshock since that is the main controller for the system. end of story.
 
Blitz187
Ummm I beg to differ... I was using a pad with the old physics and I didnt find them TOO hard to control... I was pretty quick actually.. and always played pro races and pro physics... then a week before the update I got a wheel... (DFP) and it was hard at first... but got the hang of that within 2 days and was doing the same times if not faster with the wheel but I'm good with both... so to say that it was very hard then must apply to you? No offense intended here by the way.... but if youve been using a pad since GT1... well then you are pretty skilled with a pad if youve played enough and as intense as Ive played the GT series games... I do however admit that with a wheel you can be faster! because I am a bit faster now with the wheel then the controller... :)
Click to expand...

I have only played GT4 before this and I didnt get into it very much because there was no online.

I mostley come from PC, I did have Forza 1 and 2 but they were both trash because of the wheel support. The MS wheel is horrible.

But for me I dont play with a pad so using one on the old physics was hard and obviously it was hard for normal pad users because they bitched got it changed and now are loving the new physics.

Like I said pad users will be the downfall of wheel users, and anyone who dosent have a G25 will bitch so much that they will either change the control (wich they already have), take out the clutch or ban it all together.
 
Last edited:

Latest Posts

Back