Wheel type and color coding difference tests

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by OdeFinn, Jan 11, 2016.

  1. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    Testing things on topic.. Using easy car on easy track.

    Mercedes Benz E 190 - 16 Evolution II '91 @Comfort Soft 500pp
    Tsukuba offline (or free to test on online, either way put all real)

    Many have seen my "wacko" claim of differences between wheels (Same size) and even on same models colors having different effects on car handling. Well here we're, now if you are interested to try out your self then please welcome.
    First of all, don't try to hunt differences on lap time, concentrate on handling, how easy or hard car is during braking, on corner, exit, can you brake same amount on same place, floor throttle earlier or later, is possible drift easy to recover or does it slide like on soap, how much throttle you can apply i.e. on last corner before S/F line.
    Is car prone over/understeer on entry and middle or exit.
    Check your own inputs, lines, and try to figure out are you able to do same on other wheels, where comes differences, are differences always same on same set of wheels.


    If you're using G27/G25 you should try following, if on Fanatec wheel remember to put deadzone 0.
    Mode change help: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/g27-g25-dfgt-undocumented-wheel-lock-settings-guide.286646/
    As you see from few year old message, I figured that deadzone remove back in GT5 time, but there wasn't data logger what to use for proving that to other drivers so just strike over that, but left there for a clue.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2016
  2. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    Setup for testing

    MB E 2.5 - 16 Evolution II '91
    99/99
    9.96/8.48
    3/2
    5/6
    4/4
    0.5/1.5
    -0.01/+0.10
    Standard brakes 5/7

    Max speed 290kmh
    3.799
    2.474
    1.757
    1.311
    1.000
    Fg 3.565

    LSD 5/25/6
    Standard clutch
    Standard propeller

    98.3% power limiter
    Engine stage 3
    Sports computer
    Racing exhaust
    Isometric exhaust manifold
    Catalytic converter sports
    Intake tuning

    Weight reduction stage 3

    This should give you 500pp/406hp/1112kg/40.0kgfm

    No body rigidity, do oil change.

    Tires Comfort Soft

    Track Tsukuba, real grip, no helps etc..

    Tune is made for stock wheels, so prefer to try first with them to get familiar with car.
    Then for testing I checked few wheel setups:
    OZ Racing Ultraleggera with 4 colors. - this for testing differences between colors.
    And checked both RAYS TE37SL wheels.

    Have fun and remember to drive this WITHOUT ABS.


    Edit: corrected hp value and mention of oils done, thanks @Lionheart2113
    If you're questioning your tests, or you're just unfamiliar with CS/noABS You may try same setup with ride height 96/96 and SPORTS SOFT tires, it shows easily changes and makes driving lot easier, you can concentrate more on behavior than keeping car on line.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2016
  3. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    Place holder
     
  4. Rotary Junkie

    Rotary Junkie Premium

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    Since this talk is verboten in the BTR thread, may as well post up here even though you've not actually filled the thread any.

    Went downstairs, did 5-6 laps in my BTR as it sat. Threw Enkei RPF1s on, ran laps. Threw stock back on, ran laps. Thought I did indeed feel a difference. Torq Thrusts, some laps, RPF1s again, some laps, Classic Smoothies because they should be the heaviest thing in the world, some laps, and then back to stock.

    The only thing that happened is I eventually stopped chalking up my mistakes to the wheels and started driving the car closer and closer to the same every lap. Laps became more consistent regardless of wheel choice. 1:29.5-7 for every type as "best" lap. Honestly believe any and all difference is placebo induced, which is not surprising for any one of us car nuts to fall prey to. The trouble is that we have preconceived notions about how a lighter or heavier wheel should act. RPF1s are known flyweights, Torq Thrusts are known massively heavy monsters.

    Here's the problem. The differences in weight between those two are absolutely hilarious. 8-10lbs per corner, most of it being the outer rim. That's 40lbs of unsprung weight AND rotating mass. This gap, even if magically removed from the rest of the car would outweigh (heh) every little bit of driveline inertia tuning we've discussed elsewhere.

    So, somewhere along the lines of 1-2mph down basically every straight. Longer braking distances even with GT6's hyperactive, "perfect" ABS system. None of these are present. The heavy wheels should also create a much more violent reaction to surface imperfections, while making the dampers less effective at their jobs. They don't.
     
  5. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    We just don't to side track a challenge thread with wheel talk that's all.
    This is a debate that has been going for a while and no dedicated tests have been done so @shaunm80 and I are in support of it. Time permitting, I'll log some laps and data for this to help settle an answer out. The best data will have drivers of every skill level in it that way, we will see if it's placbo or real hard game physics. If it's game it wont matter the skill level of the driver there will be a change in the car. If it's placebo than well ya'll already know.
     
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  6. Racin510s

    Racin510s Premium

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    Just so I understand what's going here I'd like to clarify the perimeters. Are we talking taking a specific car and going from stock wheels to aftermarket wheels and seeing if there is a real difference between lap times and the difference if any it makes on how the car handles? If so I'm game to do some testing since you are looking for drivers from all skill levels. Just send me a PM with the instructions.
     
  7. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    More looking any change in the handling of the car which logic says will result in a change in lap times. The tune will posted soon enough. Just grab that car and follow the directions for the testing with the prescribed wheels down to the color and paint job if applicable.
     
  8. Motor City Hami

    Motor City Hami

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    I have always said that the color green is the fastest, especially bright, eye bleeding types of green. :)
     
  9. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    406hp with oil change???
     
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  10. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    But is it 500pp? Tune is my old one, so there can be lot of miles driven and oil deterioration going.
    But that one hp doesn't make big issue on testing :)
    -corrected now, thanks.

    Added GREEN notes for Sports Soft testing. Makes car faster and bit easier to drive with them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
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  11. Grippy

    Grippy (Banned)

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    Ok. This whole thread is hilarious. Did PD actually take the time to program certain colours for that extra hp gain? I am curious about the whole colour thing. Lol.

    I would think though if the wanted to be realistic about it Black rims might attract more heat to the wheels and therefore tyres, resulting in higher tyre temps and more pontential grip.

    Aftermarket wheels, I've heard allot of talk, but haven't tried myself.
     
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  12. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    @Grippy thread looks this because comments were here before OP was posted.
    If you have time to spend and do tests you'll find surprising results.
    These tests can be verified on data logger too.
    I'm just tired for hostility what bringing info gets, so I don't care much about results, I know already answer, proved by several people and that's just enough for me. :)

    One crucial key is ABS 0
     
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  13. Grippy

    Grippy (Banned)

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    I would be shicked if they did include differences in colour considering there are lots of things that need fixing ahem *camber. Though I wont rule it out, I do appreciate the overall quality of your thread and if anything it gives hope to ABS 0 drivers in addition to good reading. :tup:
     
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  14. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    Ford GT40 Mark I '66
    5ZyQmm4VY7FJdOVOq_0.jpg
    Body rigidyty yes, no oil change
    Aero kit B
    Custom rear wing A,E,G height -6, width +58
    Other part B
    Wheel - any rim, but none of them is giving you same handling.
    79/80
    5.86/7.93
    4/7
    6/8
    7/6
    0.0/0.0
    +0.03/+0.15
    Racing brake 3/4
    Transmission (power parts first, then transmission)
    280kmh
    3.787
    2.481
    1.768
    1.333
    1.064
    Final 3.111
    8/31/51 triple clutch
    99.3% limiter
    Sports computer
    Sports exhaust
    Isometric exhaust manifold
    Catalytic converter sports
    Wing aero 120
    Weight Reduction Stage 3
    Window weight reduction
    550pp/416hp/994kg/40:60/51.1kgfm

    For fun breeded from cruiser to TT-tune, changing static camber to dynamic and that means lifting body up, therefore had to add ARB to reduce unnecessary bodyroll.

    This TT-Tune edition is excellent for showing and understanding how they change car behaviour.
    It's really stable for TT-usage, personally drive 1:29.799 on testing lap at Trial Mountain 550pp old car TT.
    When testing different rims pay attention on behaviour on first lap and how it changes on second and third, first lap is easiest for spotting huge differences on wheel behaviour, they aren't vanishing on second or third lap, but when tire warms it starts to go bit beter/differently.

    Test on TT seasonal, Pre-1980 American Cars Super Lap, better test ground than normal offline.

    Edit: as you might know seasonal is for SH compound, so is this tune.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
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