Who is likely to make the first 200+ BHP Diesel Hot Hatch?

  • Thread starter Bossman
  • 23 comments
  • 973 views

Which of the following will be the first to officially make a 200+ Diesel Hot Hatch?

  • FIAT Group

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Ford

    Votes: 2 5.1%

  • PSA (Peugeot & Citroën)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Renault-Nissan

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Toyota

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Vauxhall/Opel/Holden

    Votes: 5 12.8%

  • Volkswagen Group

    Votes: 29 74.4%
  • Total voters
    39
B

Bossman

62
For some the idea of a 200+ Diesel Hot Hatch is blasphemy that will make them chant ululululululu!!! and burn down everything, for others it's simply a matter of having your cake and eating it....... twice.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/previews/64762/vauxhall_astra_triple_eight.html

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/previews/48878/volkswagen_caddy_tdi_racer.html

The links above suggest that most modern diesels are very much capable of producing 200+ BHP.


But who is likely to be the first Car Maker to officially sell a 200+ Diesel Hot Hatch?
 
VAG's SEAT and Skoda brands are already heading in that direction, VW seem the keenest to push the 'performance' diesel boundaries, their V10 diesel is a torque monster.
 
Interesting that you left out BMW from your poll. I would have voted VAG anyway though.

I don't think that PSA are really innovating in terms of power outputs: their concentration is very much on torque, economy and reliability, because that's the core of the French market, and PSA is dominated by the French market.

Interesting that you mention Ford in your poll. I'd heard a comment that I've been unable to (dis)prove, that the TDCi engine in current Fords is actually a PSA-sourced unit. Is anyone able to confirm/deny this?

In my view, Fiat are doing a lot in the diesel space, mainly because they've sold A LOT of diesel Alfas, and so are aware (in the way that the Germans are) of the sales potential of sticking an oil burner in a premium car. Perhaps they will be behind VAG? I'm not sure.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if we could see a chipped BMW 130d strolling across the 200bhp barrier (at the utter expense of fuel economy and CO2 emissions, in the same way VAG did with the Golf GT TD PD150 a few years ago).

So, yeah. I think the first 200bhp hatch with a diesel engine will be German.
 
TheCracker
VAG's SEAT and Skoda brands are already heading in that direction, VW seem the keenest to push the 'performance' diesel boundaries, their V10 diesel is a torque monster.
Click to expand...

Maybe the next VAG model cycle, because the 2.0 170 BHP Diesel engine from the upcoming SEAT Altea FR has yet to spread to other VAG Models.


GilesGuthrie
Interesting that you left out BMW from your poll. I would have voted VAG anyway though.

I don't think that PSA are really innovating in terms of power outputs: their concentration is very much on torque, economy and reliability, because that's the core of the French market, and PSA is dominated by the French market.

Interesting that you mention Ford in your poll. I'd heard a comment that I've been unable to (dis)prove, that the TDCi engine in current Fords is actually a PSA-sourced unit. Is anyone able to confirm/deny this?

In my view, Fiat are doing a lot in the diesel space, mainly because they've sold A LOT of diesel Alfas, and so are aware (in the way that the Germans are) of the sales potential of sticking an oil burner in a premium car. Perhaps they will be behind VAG? I'm not sure.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if we could see a chipped BMW 130d strolling across the 200bhp barrier (at the utter expense of fuel economy and CO2 emissions, in the same way VAG did with the Golf GT TD PD150 a few years ago).

So, yeah. I think the first 200bhp hatch with a diesel engine will be German.
Click to expand...

BMW was omited because they seem to be content to have the BMW 120D as the top diesel 1 series which has 163 BHP, though I can see a gap between the 120D and the 261 BHP 130 Petrol which would likely be filled soon enough.

Whether it will be a diesel I'm not sure.


It is indeed true that PSA and Ford build a few diesels as part of a joint-venture. (link below)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_HDi_engine

And also Fiat-GM as part of a joint-venture as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JTD_engine
 
Alfa has a tasty commonrail 5cyl diesel rated at 197bhp that's used in the 156/159 - don't know if they sell it in the 157 as well? which is probably getting close.

The trouble with diesel engines is that they are usually heavy with an iron block. Stick a heavy engine in the front of a small, FWD hatch back and you're going really upset the balance and therefore the handling. The issue is less noticeable in a larger car with more weight at the back.
 
TheCracker
Alfa has a tasty commonrail 5cyl diesel rated at 197bhp that's used in the 156/159 - don't know if they sell it in the 157 as well? which is probably getting close.

The trouble with diesel engines is that they are usually heavy with an iron block. Stick a heavy engine in the front of a small, FWD hatch back and you're going really upset the balance and therefore the handling. The issue is less noticeable in a larger car with more weight at the back.
Click to expand...
Isn't the 156/159 a little too big to be considered a "Hot Hatch" ?...

I would've voted BMW btw...
 
I was also thinking BMW might be able to push it. Think about it, they've got the 270+ bhp 535 twin turbo 3 liter ("35" for a "30", how ironic... :indiff: ) as a sport option, a 200 bhp 125d probably isn't that far off.

(don't mind the colors, I'm feeling experimental this week.)
 
...We don't get very many diesels in the US, so most of my car-based diesel products were from VW, so I went that direction...
 
I voted for VW, since they seem to be the most dedicated to diesel power (Look at the Audi R10... :drool: )
Supposedly they're coming out with a diesel version of the new GTI, possibly called GTD. Offer it in the States (all 50 of 'em) as a 5 door with the paddle shifted DSG, give it maybe 200 hp and 300 lb./ft and 40-ish mpg and I'll definitely be the first in line! :D 👍
 
Renault in my view. They don't need Nissan anyway because they're so great.
 
Bossman
ultrabeat

I've put Renault and Nissan in because "Renault has a stake of 44.4 per cent in Japanese automaker Nissan together with which they form the Renault-Nissan Alliance. Nissan in turn took a 15 per cent stake in Renault in 2002."
(see link below)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault#Current_situation
Click to expand...

Yeah, but the inhouse designing is different. Renault could split away from Nissan and still be the greatest car maker ever. I'm a bit biased though.
 
I'm not exactly sure if this would classify as a "hot hatch," but it's got 227hp.

10311tb.jpg

Mercedes-Benz C30 CDI AMG Sports Coupe

Click here to see where all of the manufacturers currently stand.
 
I don't know if it's a sports compact, but it's definitely small. :lol:

I've just noticed Audi's A4 has a 3.0 TDi with over 200 hp. If they put it into the hatch, there you go. I guess VW-Audi has their foot halfway in already.
 
Audi are making a V12 diesel for a deisel version of the RS6 and the petroel verions gonna make about 550-600bhp so we should see the diesel version making similiar power.
 
even I'm thinking VAG after reading about the deisel V12 powered racer they're taking to LeMans. you know, the performance magazine guys over here got a taste of Beamer's 120D...and loved it??!

if only we could get over the deisel stigma over here. don't forget, americans use deisel for Lorries, heavy construction equipment, and home heating instead.
 
Sniffs
even I'm thinking VAG after reading about the deisel V12 powered racer they're taking to LeMans. you know, the performance magazine guys over here got a taste of Beamer's 120D...and loved it??!

if only we could get over the deisel stigma over here. don't forget, americans use deisel for Lorries, heavy construction equipment, and home heating instead.
Click to expand...

One obstacle for diesel cars is the high-sulfur diesel fuel we get in this country. But that's going to change soon.
 

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