Why Kaz needs to go...

Do you think Kaz should retire from GT?


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C_Raccoon23

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I know right? Why are the moderators allowing this thread to go on further, if they don't mind me asking? I remember some of them meeting Kaz before. Saying how kind he was, yet, they allow this thread to stay open and have many people spread hate towards him... I knew they were being sarcastic in the first place, because if they weren't, this thread would have gotten locked days ago.

Guess they don't like Kaz either. They hate him and want him fired just like all the others.

Because they can't control how other people feel about Kaz. If the moderators don't agree with Kaz leaving PD, then they won't say he should.
 

eran0004

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eran0004
@eran0004 -> We are on a GT Forum. I express and EXPLAIN my hard feelings against Kaz if I want to. Looks like some here share my views. You don't. I get it. Stop talking about us "whiners" and start talking about why Kaz should not be replaced. Or just don't post in this thread. You don't HAVE to you know?

You saying that Kaz does not impersonate GT is being dishonest. Plain and simple. I won't even argue on this as I don't even see how anyone can seriously think this.

And FYI, as much as I know GT is just a game, not a religion, I sill wonder why some of you treat Kaz like some kind of unquestionable Messiah.

Of course you are, and I share and express and explain why you're so wrong about it. You don't have to share your thoughts and I don't have to share mine, but for some reason we both decided to do that anyway so here we are. If you don't like the debate you're free to leave.

Stop talking about us "whiners" and start talking about why Kaz should not be replaced.

I'll stop talking about you "whiners" when you "whiners" cease to "whine", thank you very much.

Why Kaz should not be replaced:
  • I can't see any legitimate reasons why he should be fired. Not that I've done a complete organizational review of his business, but neither have you so what do we really know?
You saying that Kaz does not impersonate GT is being dishonest. Plain and simple. I won't even argue on this as I don't even see how anyone can seriously think this.

You think everyone disagreeing with you are being dishonest? That must make the world simple for you. Hint: No, I'm not being dishonest.

And FYI, as much as I know GT is just a game, not a religion, I sill wonder why some of you treat Kaz like some kind of unquestionable Messiah.

You've misunderstood everything. What I don't like is when people draw conclusions about other people based on ignorance and prejudices. It doesn't matter if it's Kazunori Yamauchi, Dan Greenawalt, Tom Cruise or a homeless man sleeping on a bench in the park.

@SlipZtrEm : See above.
 
10,414
Canada
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Because they can't control how other people feel about Kaz. If the moderators don't agree with Kaz leaving PD, then they won't say he should.
True. I agree with you there bud. 👍 Although the hate towards Kaz really isn't needed. I'm quite surprised it's still going. :\
 

SlipZtrEm

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I know right? Why are the moderators allowing this thread to go on further, if they don't mind me asking? I remember some of them meeting Kaz before. Saying how kind he was, yet, they allow this thread to stay open and have many people spread hate towards him... I knew they were being sarcastic in the first place, because if they weren't, this thread would have gotten locked days ago.

Guess they don't like Kaz either. They hate him and want him fired just like all the others.

...are you actually serious?

:rolleyes:
 
47
United States
United States
I voted no, but maybe Kaz needs to go. I mean the guy has moved on to other endeavors, GT Academy. And in my mind he has validated sim racing in a lot of ways. That said the game hasn't been innovative since the dawn of widespread internet gaming. Maybe someone else can help right the ship..
 
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200
Canada
Manitoba
DrPuPpEtWaRi0r
He can't go. Gt is his passion and nobody else could probably make Gt like it is now. He may not be the best game designer but I don't think Gt could be Gt without Kaz
 
11,219
United States
Chicago, iLL
GTP_Nismo
Do we actually know if he's at all involved with the game's development or to what extent?
Another subtle dig, well done:tup:
Nothing subtle about it.
I admire your patience. Canadians are awesome.
 
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Vagabond

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Ha. No. I was being sarcastic. :sly:

EDIT: Sorry forgot to erase the 'kinda' part. >_<'
That wasn't sarcasm.

We've left this thread open so we can marvel at the depth of wisdom that herein dwells, and laugh in silent admiration of witty repartee.

That was sarcasm. See the difference?

You want my opinion? And I know that you do...

I think Kaz is a bloke with a mission and an admirable one at that. I think, like all visionaries, he is hampered by the mundane and the expectations of corporate jackels, all pawing at him with their petty concerns of deadlines and the bottom line. (No, no, its the racing line that matters.) He ponders, occasionally pausing to consider the noises they make, agreeing, reluctantly, to sign some things, to publish some things.... were those engine samples they played? Ah well, he likes these ear plugs; so small, so discreet, "They don't even know I can't hear a word they say."

He chuckles and puts his gloves and helmet back on.
 

Tenacious D

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All right, look, one more post then I'm done with this.

(sounds) Changed =/= improved. The modern Lambos all still share the same basic sample, right?

(Bot A.I.) Changed =/= improved. AI that slows down extensively to ensure I don't lose isn't progress in my book.
Now, this is the problem. With you, evidently nothing is ever better in Gran Turismo. I notice you don't hammer Griffith500 over his posts dealing with sound issues, and I have little doubt that it's because he would spin a web of technical details around you that only an audio engineer could deal with. Quite a number of us have mentioned good things about car sound improvements WITHIN GT5, and even posted YouTube vids about it. Some of us have posted interesting experiences about the bots acting rather human even in GT5, but more so in GT6, even Jordan. A number of us have posted details of good races against the bots where we darn well LOST.

But, Slippers doesn't see any marked improvements, so they don't exist. He never lost, so neither did we.

Okay, disussion over. Have a nice weekend.
 
170
jay-16v
Funny that while watching the Kaz Documentary I never once saw Jordan say how he wants Kaz to leave or how he was unhappy with the game, seemed quite the opposite infact! why did he not represent the views of his moderators and forum users as any body visiting this site while soon learn how much hate there seems to be for this game and its producer.

I voted No a long time ago.
 
926
machschnel
I notice you don't hammer Griffith500 over his posts dealing with sound issues, and I have little doubt that it's because he would spin a web of technical details around you that only an audio engineer could deal with.

With all due respect to Griffith500, the large majority of players don't care about technical details. Whenever I ask people what game has good sounds you know what they say? Forza. Griffith500 has explained time and time again why they aren't accurate but people still persist in liking them (myself included). Polyphony have a similar issue - they spend years chasing some crazy level of audio accuracy all while Turn 10 "just fakes it" and impresses all, bar the 0.0001% of people who know what they are talking about.

Ignorance is bliss. I know the sounds in Forza aren't accurate, but I couldn't care less.
 
11,219
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GTP_Nismo
Funny that while watching the Kaz Documentary I never once saw Jordan say how he wants Kaz to leave or how he was unhappy with the game, seemed quite the opposite infact! why did he not represent the views of his moderators and forum users as any body visiting this site while soon learn how much hate there seems to be for this game and its producer.

I voted No a long time ago.
That has to be a troll post.
I'm sorry, but were you expecting anything at all negative about kaz in a documentary called "kaz:Pushing the virtual divide"? It's 84 minutes of putting Kaz on a sky high pedestal.
 

Johnnypenso

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That has to be a troll post.
I'm sorry, but were you expecting anything at all negative about kaz in a documentary called "kaz:Pushing the virtual divide"? It's 84 minutes of putting Kaz on a sky high pedestal.
Troll post from a troll I suspect. Or flamebait more likely. 👍

I still haven't watched the documentary. Gotta get around to that soon:cheers:
 
1,210
Australia
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Do we actually know if he's at all involved with the game's development or to what extent?

I think I can safely say the most important influence Kaz has over the game is Physics and the driving feel. Were it almost anybody else in charge I can see how the games Physics model would become an Arcadey mess, even if we were to get every other aspect of the game improved. I always prefer to the core of a driving game to be the focus, and that will always be the driving dynamics.

For this reason, games like Forza will never catch up, no matter how perfect the rest of the game is, because it is clear the people in charge of that haven't got a clue on how cars behave, and the physics in the Forza games are just dreadfully stupid and unrealistic.

Forza has always been better compared to GT in terms of campaign, modding, customization, social aspects. GT has always just been catch the rabbit on a random track, yet its still a much better game because of the driving feel and realism.
 

VBR

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What I think PD really needs is help from a 3rd party "Troubleshooter". Someone who is neither Sony, PD, or a fan of the game. Someone who can be objective, zoom out so to speak & see the bigger picture. Someone to inject a little bit of common sense into proceedings, especially when it comes to game design.

There was a show on TV here in the UK about a corporate troubleshooter, he'd go into a company & observe them for a while finding out what the issues were, issues that those involved were unable to see because they were in the middle of them. He'd then give them some no holds barred frank advice, & help to get them back on track. I think that's what PD so desperately needs.
 
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What I think PD really needs is help from a 3rd party "Troubleshooter". Someone who is neither Sony, PD, or a fan of the game. Someone who can be objective, zoom out so to speak & see the bigger picture. Someone to inject a little bit of common sense into proceedings, especially when it comes to game design.

There was a show on TV here in the UK about a corporate troubleshooter, he'd go into a company & observe them for a while finding out what the issues were, issues that those involved were unable to see because they were in the middle of them. He'd then give them some no holds barred frank advice, & help to get them back on track. I think that's what PD so desperately needs.

Perhaps something like what happened to Studio Japan? I think that would be a good way to approach it.

http://kotaku.com/how-sonys-most-creative-studio-rose-from-the-ashes-1458030068

All the right parts are there in PD to make cracking games, they're just not quite coming together. I think PD could really benefit from an outside "organiser" to give them structure. Maybe structure is not the problem, but at least that person could probably identify what the problem is.
 
170
jay-16v
That has to be a troll post.
I'm sorry, but were you expecting anything at all negative about kaz in a documentary called "kaz:Pushing the virtual divide"? It's 84 minutes of putting Kaz on a sky high pedestal.


Why is it a troll post? ( the lack of intelligence from some on this forum really amazes me )
Its is my view and opinion after watching the documentary, I don't care if it doesn't fall in line with yours. I think its pretty sad when you see Jordan talking about him so highly to then come on his forum and have a witch hunt for Kaz about how he needs to go for one reason or another. I have an idea and that is if you don't like what he is doing and where he is taking the game then you stop buying his games and giving him your money. Problem solved, you never have to play anything by him again. Personally I am looking forward to what he does with the PS4 thanks.
 
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Vagabond

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Why is it a troll post? ( the lack of intelligence from some on this forum really amazes me )
Jordan is aware of this thread, as are the rest of the staff. Whether or not we agree with its sentiments, it represents the view of some in the community and gives another arena for debate, much of which has been coherent and free of personal attacks. We can not and will not resort to censorship, as long as these debates remain civil. You don't seem to want to follow this theme, however and have been increasingly inflammatory. This is the last post from you I want to see that questions the intelligence of others, whether it be an individual or a representative group. If the discussions annoy you that much, avoid them.
 
672
United States
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I don't think he should be removed but I feel he should be open to listening to fresher ideas from some younger designers/programmers so that the franchise can overcome the stale presentation and innovation for the last 10 years. It would be nice to actually buy a complete game at purchase again.

I personally won't be buying another GT game produced by Kaz anytime soon. I just can't get past certain major things like the endless rabbit racing, silly repetitive grinding, boring championships offline etc. I haven't touched GT6 in the past month. Despite its improvements over GT5 it still just more of the same. The GT franchise needs a fresh makeover badly. Project Cars is where I will be.

I have no hate toward the man as he deserves a bit of respect for what he has accomplished. But as some have mentioned there comes a time when your ideas become stale and you need to reinvent your product to be relevant with the times. No livery editor? Qualifying? Proper BSpec implementation? All cars not premium etc. there really is too much to mention.

Instead of bringing out the pitchforks and torches for the man vote with your wallets. Don't keep buying the game knowing he is not going to put in what you want. If we do and then keep complaining then at that point it's our fault for continually buying the games and then complaining. Kaz is determined to put out what he will put out. We don't have to buy it if it's not what we want. This is why I'm out of GT from now on. I'm tired of complaining due to disappointment over the series direction. My 2 cents.
 
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170
jay-16v
Jordan is aware of this thread, as are the rest of the staff. Whether or not we agree with its sentiments, it represents the view of some in the community and gives another arena for debate, much of which has been coherent and free of personal attacks. We can not and will not resort to censorship, as long as these debates remain civil. You don't seem to want to follow this theme, however and have been increasingly inflammatory. This is the last post from you I want to see that questions the intelligence of others, whether it be an individual or a representative group. If the discussions annoy you that much, avoid them.

This whole thread is inflammatory tbh and also very disrespectful but note taken I won't question no ones intelligence in future:banghead:

The last comment I have bolded can also be turned around to If the game annoys you that much why buy it ?
 
10,414
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That wasn't sarcasm.

We've left this thread open so we can marvel at the depth of wisdom that herein dwells, and laugh in silent admiration of witty repartee.

That was sarcasm. See the difference?

You want my opinion? And I know that you do...

I think Kaz is a bloke with a mission and an admirable one at that. I think, like all visionaries, he is hampered by the mundane and the expectations of corporate jackels, all pawing at him with their petty concerns of deadlines and the bottom line. (No, no, its the racing line that matters.) He ponders, occasionally pausing to consider the noises they make, agreeing, reluctantly, to sign some things, to publish some things.... were those engine samples they played? Ah well, he likes these ear plugs; so small, so discreet, "They don't even know I can't hear a word they say."

He chuckles and puts his gloves and helmet back on.
Look @Vagabond, buddy. I know what sarcasms and opinions are, I was only lying. No need to treat me like an idiot. :P Although I'm glad I've gotten you and Slip's attention, plan accomplished. :sly:
 

Vagabond

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This whole thread is inflammatory tbh and also very disrespectful...
For what its worth, I agree with you. That is my opinion though and as staff I can't enforce my opinion, I can only enforce the AUP.
Look @Vagabond, buddy. I know what sarcasms and opinions are, I was only lying. No need to treat me like an idiot. :P
My post was an attempt at humour also. I'm still working on the intricacies of human interaction, however... and the learning curve is steep.
 

Tenacious D

GT5 Standard rapscallion
Premium
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Nigel Fox
I think I can safely say the most important influence Kaz has over the game is Physics and the driving feel. Were it almost anybody else in charge I can see how the games Physics model would become an Arcadey mess, even if we were to get every other aspect of the game improved. I always prefer to the core of a driving game to be the focus, and that will always be the driving dynamics.

For this reason, games like Forza will never catch up, no matter how perfect the rest of the game is, because it is clear the people in charge of that haven't got a clue on how cars behave, and the physics in the Forza games are just dreadfully stupid and unrealistic.

Forza has always been better compared to GT in terms of campaign, modding, customization, social aspects. GT has always just been catch the rabbit on a random track, yet its still a much better game because of the driving feel and realism.
I'm going to once more go out of character for a moment and discuss Forza positively. ;)

While I agree with xSNAKEx's opinion for the most part, Forza 4 did get some things right. T10 dumped the flat truck tire sounds of the previous two games, and I believe worked with Pirelli on a revamped tire modeling and some physics tweaks. As a result, sports cars running around turns at high speeds felt properly hazardous, which still feel a little too safe in GT6.

Real car racers quibble about both Forza and GT physics and kinetics, and it does seem that the focus of the Forza engine is taking turns as fast as possible and "one button" drifting, which thrills the kids. The cars load up with kinetic energy when stopping on occasion that seem out of whack, and I just can't get comfy taking turns, though part of that is their choice of camera angles.

Still, both games have gone so far that in my PC sim-console shootout a couple of years ago, both Forza and GT5 felt so much more alive and involved than the GTRs and Live for Speed, and had physics generally on par, which surprised me. I give GT the win, obviously as I'm still racing GT6, and the bots don't make me want to take pliers to the disc like Forza's bots do. I miss Forza's extensive customization and wonderful Livery Editor - you can buy decals on the Storefront! - but hopefully Kaz will finally deliver something in that regard by GT7.
 
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