- 553
- Sweden
The drivers should walk. It's even safer and slower. They should just sit at home in the fetal position hoping the big bad world goes away
Will you boycott F1 next year because of the Halo?Formula 1
- Thread starter Simmpa
- 118 comments
- 5,959 views
The drivers should walk. It's even safer and slower. They should just sit at home in the fetal position hoping the big bad world goes away
- 34,605
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Ideally, it should. Problem is, the "Safety" part is façade to conceal the FIA doing whatever the hell they want.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
That's not the problem - the problem is one of litigation. The FIA are asked to provide and ratify rules and specifications for a given racing series. On the back of that ratification and policing circuits can then get insurance to hold events. No safety ratification, no insurance. No insurance, no venues/teams/business.
What happens if the FIA ignore a valid head protection device and a driver is killed during the 2018 season in an incident that could plainly have been prevented by the halo? I hate the halo as much as you do (I think) but just blaming the FIA and saying "they do whatever the hell they want" demonstrates, in my opinion, a lack of understanding of what it takes to make such a dangerous occupation legally viable in this day and age.
There's an ongoing rumour that one of the reasons Manor wound down was to clear the potential for liability after the deaths of two of their drivers in F1 cars - in both cases there were serious questions asked about the two-foot safety mechanisms on the cars. This whole halo issue comes down to liability too - did you provide a working safety system when one was clearly available?
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- 13,152
- GTPlanet
- Street-King-07
- Quattro Saltire
We sat through the thinner cars with skyscraper rear wings;
We survived the stepped and appendege noses;
I'm sure that we'll make it through 2018 with the Halo system intact without the need for a ridiculous boycott. I don't like the way the Halo is being rushed through for next year, but it's not enough to make me completely stop watching.
We survived the stepped and appendege noses;
I'm sure that we'll make it through 2018 with the Halo system intact without the need for a ridiculous boycott. I don't like the way the Halo is being rushed through for next year, but it's not enough to make me completely stop watching.
Tired Tyres
Premium
- 12,258
- West Yorkshire
- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
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- 5,915
- Finland
I have very little understanding for those whose reasoning is along the lines of "the Halo sucks because it can't stop object X on a trajectory Y at a velocity Z" - well that might be the truth, but neither can the empty air in front of the driver right now. If it deflects even one piece of debris away from the driver it has done its job because without it, that piece would have reached the driver and to my knowledge it would be quite an unwanted situation.
- 34,605
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Yes, a lot of my hate did come from being under the impression that the FIA basically just blew off what was a unanimous vote by other teams and did it anyways, but it also stems from me feeling that its not much safe. it might be safer then nothing, but I honestly feel it could possibly be worse then nothing due to it being rushed and I feel the last thing you want to rush is something that is supposed to save lives. I'm not against safety or protecting the drivers (believe me, I'd like not to re-experience watching that incident again or anything similar) and I don't claim to be a safety expert, I just don't think the HALO is the answer. The Aeroscreen I thought seemed better for extraction and protection (though admittingly I do feel its slightly cumbersome) and the recent Shield Ferrari tested seemed like it has potential (if only there was some bracing to strengthen it along with refining the visibility so drivers don't feel dizzy), but I'm not convinced the Halo is it.
- 7,524
- Cincinnati, Ohio, United States of America
- BlackRose_Atomic
Then the halo buys that time. The halo means something is in place while everyone sorts out the issues with the more preferred options. There doesn't have to be nothing while everyone works on sorting out the shield, which is an eventuality, not an if. People need to see the halo for what it is. A temporary fix for a long term goal.
- 6,730
- United States
Indycar and Dallara are working on a shield now. http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/143039-fall-winter-tests-targeted-for-indycar-aeroscreen
- 3,035
- Kingston, Jamaica
- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
Honesrly the most disgusting thing about the Halo is not the aesthetic somehow ruining the sport, but the manner in which the FIA have gone about bring it forward.
Ignoring and neglecting the opinion of the teams, fans etc, as well as ignoring other alternatives that, on top of being more aesthetic and preferable to the teams, would actually help prevent debris from striking the head, is not the manner in which a supposedly respectable governing body should operate. Doing this for an untested, glorified toilet seat that fixes one problem while creating several more is downright deplorable.
Safety is always important, and the days of accepting that the sport will always be inherently life threatening is past us, however rushing out a half assed solution as a panic reaction to the first fatality in 20 years in the sport, just to save face and avoid potential lawsuits and whatnot, is downright disgraceful.
The worst part of this is that nothing will change unless they are proven wrong about their 'safety' device. So either we have these potentially unsafe sandals with wheels indefinitely, or they cause a head injury which, based on trends in the last few decades, we aren't due for for a while, hopefully never, and we find a solution that actually protects the drivers.
Ignoring and neglecting the opinion of the teams, fans etc, as well as ignoring other alternatives that, on top of being more aesthetic and preferable to the teams, would actually help prevent debris from striking the head, is not the manner in which a supposedly respectable governing body should operate. Doing this for an untested, glorified toilet seat that fixes one problem while creating several more is downright deplorable.
Safety is always important, and the days of accepting that the sport will always be inherently life threatening is past us, however rushing out a half assed solution as a panic reaction to the first fatality in 20 years in the sport, just to save face and avoid potential lawsuits and whatnot, is downright disgraceful.
The worst part of this is that nothing will change unless they are proven wrong about their 'safety' device. So either we have these potentially unsafe sandals with wheels indefinitely, or they cause a head injury which, based on trends in the last few decades, we aren't due for for a while, hopefully never, and we find a solution that actually protects the drivers.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
The "more preferable" option was, as reported by the driver who last tested it, too distorting to comfortably drive with.
The teams and fans aren't responsible for ratification of the technical or sporting rulebooks - the FIA. Teams and fans have zero to do with the insurance process.
Two drivers, a number of marshalls. None of whom would have been saved by the halo, but just pointing that out.
- 473
- Manchester
- United6694
It isn't pretty like we all agree on but if it stops one incident then surely its worth it until like others say maybe they find an even better solution, again as has been touched on the Sky tv deal is surely turning more viewers off than the looks of the cars.
- 7,524
- Cincinnati, Ohio, United States of America
- BlackRose_Atomic
Pointing out that Senna and Bianchi would have both died regardless of if the halo or shield were in place then. Senna due to the tire striking the top of his helmet, and Bianchi due to the 74 mph-0 sudden stop causing more of his injuries than the crane he hit.
- 3,035
- Kingston, Jamaica
- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
This goes back to the lack of testing and attention given to alternatives. It wouldn't be rocket science to make a visor less distorting. It's not like the Halo is at all superior when it comes to visibility.
I think the only person who would have been saved by the Halo was Henry Surtees. Something that most certainly would have avoided the situation altogether were stronger wheel tethers.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Less distorting, shouldn't be a problem with development. Zero distortion - likely impossible.
Some drivers have reported that the halo improved visibility or, at the very least, didn't interfere with current visibility levels. Sadly that can't be said for the screen-type solutions.
The halo doesn't have to be the final attempt at a solution, unfortunately it's the only one that's ready. If the sport refuses to use it then they lose their regulator and have no sport.
Roo
Premium
- 7,349
- Hampshire, UK
- GTP_Roo
3 marshalls, if anyone's counting. 2 died from being hit by flying wheels, a problem the introduction of wheel tethers seem to have solved. The other was an accident during a vehicle recovery. But I digress...
I would argue that there's a possibility Maria de Villota would still be alive had the halo been around in 2012, or if her accident didn't contribute to her death, the nature of her injuries would at least have been very different.
- 1,747
No, I will not "boycott" F1, but I surely won't watch it anymore either, these things look absolutely terrifying , and terrifyingly ugly. I pitty the guy that can't get out of their car for a prolonged time after a crash because of this monstrosity, just because the FIA wanted to create a "safe place" (for whatever reason).
You guys can circle jerk around it how much you want, F1 losing its sound is one of the things that started making it less popular and this "Halo" will make things worse, probably not outright kill it, but make it vanish into obscurity.
I also think it's pretty nonsensical to think that people watch a series or sport only because of one thing, usually it's a combination of things that make people follow a sport.
I really hope F1 finds a way around this new regulation, otherwise this'll be the last season for likely a long time I'm watching...
It's weird, I lost my interest in motor sports pretty much and as soon I started feeling some excitement about it again they come up with this "invention" for "safety".
I really think it's scarry and it doesn't fit into the formula of an open wheel / open cockpit race car.
It kinda reminds me when they stopped doing these speedboat races (I think also called F1?) I loved watching that, but oh well.
I don't think motor sport has a future. At least not for me, they also stopped showing Indycar and nascar here for some time now (actually since that Alex Zanardi crash) and other series like "prototype" and DTM and whatever are just too 🤬 boring imo. Like watching paint dry lol.
- 34,605
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Except sounds alone isn't gonna fix the often boring racing or oddball rules made. Seems like some F1 fans are having the same faulted logic as some Nascar fans that simply making an aesthestic change to either will miraculously fix everything.
- 1,747
That's true I guess, it was a couple of years before that when things got stale already, but what I meant it didn't help things getting more exciting again, just more stale. I know there were a couple good races in the last years, but far between, mostly it was just one team dominating which also contributed to things being stale obviously.
Got a feeling this year can be a little bit better with 2 top teams being basically equal and a third playing catch up.
Anyways, after posting tonight I've watched a couple of "class 1" speedboat races and yet again the thing that stood out were the sounds, without them it would be pretty boring to watch too, especially since boats don't really look as fast as they really are often times.
Yeah, that's why I said it's a combination of things like with the speedboats, without the sound it would still be kinda cool to watch, but the sound is what makes it thrilling imo..
When they jump and the engines rev up, or just going faster than the other boat, you don't just see it, you also hear it.
1video I watched was called "when boats were boats", kinda how I feel about current F1.
- 22,549
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
While I don't agree with it for many reasons, however, it's not something that is so horrible in conception and idea that people should boycott F1 over it. Two it's quite stupid to boycott something put on by the FOM due to an FIA ruling. If you wanted to silently protest it then you'd be better off staying away from all FIA events.
This right here, and left out by the FIA halo justification video, is the reasoning why a quick band-aid such as the halo, is from an engineering stand point to the teams not a great solution or exactly necessary. And why teams were easily fine with being unanimously against it. The chance of a complete front suspension failure and jettisoning the front tires away from the car into the path of others like Buemi's STR, is massively slim. I bring this up because other than improper tire placing, that leads to it fall off the car, this is the only other way I see use of the halo. And even in that rare case, the tires were still going nearly at speed when becoming detached, thus rotating forward.
This right here, and left out by the FIA halo justification video, is the reasoning why a quick band-aid such as the halo, is from an engineering stand point to the teams not a great solution or exactly necessary. And why teams were easily fine with being unanimously against it. The chance of a complete front suspension failure and jettisoning the front tires away from the car into the path of others like Buemi's STR, is massively slim. I bring this up because other than improper tire placing, that leads to it fall off the car, this is the only other way I see use of the halo. And even in that rare case, the tires were still going nearly at speed when becoming detached, thus rotating forward.
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- 10,970
- Central Coast, NSW
- EelX 5
Not the biggest fan of the halo but it isn't why I'm not watching F1. I survived through the lego bricks and twin tusks. I just find racing better elsewhere, the only time I really watch F1 is the Australian Grand Prix and that's mainly for the Supercars and Porsche.
- 6,226
- Ottawa
- Pyano1132
The cockpit view of F1 2018 will be fun.
- 1,747
This feels so rushed and stupid, I can't believe it.
It contradicts the whole concept.
What if a belt isn't really tightened enough (which happens actually) then driver head will hit this thing, instead of nothing without this thing (under normal circumstances).
The only thing this - head cage - does is protect the drivers from extremely rare freak incidents.
The lengths people go to defend this, reminds me a lot of the people defending scammy download content practices in games.
It makes no sense, but you still believe in it and you will never admit of being wrong... Because you can't be wrong on the internet appearantly.
I'll brush it aside as an internet thing as I'm convinced the majority of F1 fans will hate this change and probably stop watching all together (assumption on the last part)
"If the racing is good, no one will care."
Well, wrong Sherlock, F1 was always more than just racing, it's the flair, the tradition, the whole concept of open wheel, open cockpit and ultra fast cars. Since what - nearly 100 years now? This thing you call F1 will die next year if these plans go through. Nobody cares...
It contradicts the whole concept.
What if a belt isn't really tightened enough (which happens actually) then driver head will hit this thing, instead of nothing without this thing (under normal circumstances).
The only thing this - head cage - does is protect the drivers from extremely rare freak incidents.
The lengths people go to defend this, reminds me a lot of the people defending scammy download content practices in games.
It makes no sense, but you still believe in it and you will never admit of being wrong... Because you can't be wrong on the internet appearantly.
I'll brush it aside as an internet thing as I'm convinced the majority of F1 fans will hate this change and probably stop watching all together (assumption on the last part)
"If the racing is good, no one will care."
Well, wrong Sherlock, F1 was always more than just racing, it's the flair, the tradition, the whole concept of open wheel, open cockpit and ultra fast cars. Since what - nearly 100 years now? This thing you call F1 will die next year if these plans go through. Nobody cares...
- 7,524
- Cincinnati, Ohio, United States of America
- BlackRose_Atomic
Definitely don't see F1 dying any time soon. Let alone because of a piece of carbon around the cockpit. Yes, the halo isn't the best solution, but the FIA needed to put something in place immediately, and they couldn't have done it with the aeroscreen or the shield. I think everyone here would rather see either of the other two over the halo, but the point stands that from a liability standpoint, if someone next year does get hurt, and the halo, by some chance, could have protected them, what would the FIA do then? Because then F1 would really be in trouble.
- 1,747
Is this really made of carbon fiber?
I mean I thought about that and hoped they would use a really strong material for those at least, because wouldn't that be *really* extremely stupid with how easily that stuff crumbles at an impact?
And why is that? Why so suddenly?
I don't really understand the urgency, especially when it's been talked (and neglected) about for many years now?
And if we're playing "what if" scenarios, what if someone gets hurt because of the "halo"?
What then? Is the FIA gonna say "Oops 🤬 happens..." Or will they withdraw this crazy idea?
What I'm saying is this "solution" doesn't only look really bad, it also looks super unsafe... and that doesn't even go into how it will probably obstruct the driver's sight even more than the already very obstructive cockpits do anyways.
This (amongst other things) is why I always liked Bernie, I knew with him, the status quo would always somewhat remain in F1, but then again I understand he couldn't do this job indefinitely, best of luck to him though in any case.
- 472
- United Kingdom
Exactly.
The FIA have long showed their incompetency in governing the sport. They regularly approve parts to be used, then outlaw them (mass damper on the Renault for example).
They don't apply rules consistently - track limits a prime example.
At times their actions are amateur to say the least - Remember Mercedes test-gate ? They gave a team written permission to run a test, when everyone else found out they tried to punish the team and got left with egg on their face.
Their competency with technical matters is laughable - take the recent issue with wheels tethers on the STR. "This tether shouldn't be like this" "Well, you approved them for use like that" "Oh, did we ? hmm maybe we should look at that". I mean, really ? these guys are scrutineering cars and they don't even know what is and isn't an approved part ?
Remember last year when they got all up tight about helmet visor rip offs ? Suddenly they decided they were dangerous and the problem had to be fixed? Utterly baffled everyone, its not ever been a problem before and there were no real recent examples of any issue.
And now they are forcing a stupid invention on to the cars under the premise of "safety" - yet it would have made no positive difference to any crash in the last 25 years (possibly longer).
They are desperate for us to accept this as "the best solution", yet have not really told us what problem they are "solving". Originally halo was billed to protect against large objects like wheels and not small debris, then they went off down the route of the shield saying that they were concentrating on small debris, not large debris because wheel tethers are good enough that a wheel coming loose is rare. Now we're back to halo - so uh, why ?
The "solution" is not needed for safety reasons, but political. There is the ongoing Bianchi lawsuit (which is probably the prime reason to force halo in for 2018). There is also Jean Todt who despite being FIA president has done precisely **** all for the sport since being elected. If you look around you'll find that he's far too busy giving speeches at the UN, EU or anyone else who'll listen about road safety.
He is clearly eyeing up a political career and "solving" head protection safety in F1 helps him along that road, he can now go and talk about how they've stopped racing drivers being injured, it doesn't matter what the device is, how good it is or if it even improves safety - provided he make a speech around the thing it doesn't matter what it is or what it does. He doesn't give a flying **** about F1.
The statement they released after the announcement just showed their desperation for people to accept halo. They know that this is a poorly executed, badly thought out "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist. They conveniently managed to twist words to make out the teams support Halo, when in fact 90% of the teams voted against.
Damon Hill tweeted "The FIA lost their claim to represent the best interests of the sport way back. They just tag along now" back in September last year. I concur.
If the FIA want to promote road safety, thats great, crack on, off you go. I see no reason for them to be governing any motorsport - most of their members are breakdown services and caravanning clubs. They simply are not relevant to F1.
As it is they are using the sport as a political football, halo will be paraded in front of bureaucrats who don't really care either - provided there is plenty of mutual backslapping and a jolly nice posh dinner afterwards no-one cares.
I have no desire to see the sport treated like a puppet for the whims of bureaucrats who are only out for themselves who don't care if they damage F1. If they get away with this they will see it as a license to inflict whatever scheme they come up with next ? Further neutralisation of tracks - that Eau Rouge looks a bit dangerous (especially if a driver's vision is blocked....), maybe we should get rid of it.. ? speed limits ? Mandated pit stop times to prevent "rushing" ? ban of IC engines ? There will be no stopping them.
I wanted to watch a sport, not the manifestation of disinterested politicos who seek to promote themselves rather than motor racing.
I'll leave you with a gif of FP1 yesterday. Hamilton doing an egress test. the FIA have bent the rules to extend the permitted time to get out from 5 to (IIRC) 8 seconds. Granted, Hamilton is not rushing himself but just look how difficult it is to get out, even with the aid of a step.
The other thought that comes to mind with this is that if the ERS system is not safe, drivers are instructed to leave the car without touching the car and ground at the same time. Right now they stand up, step out on to the nose and jump clear. Halo makes that impossible. So how, exactly is the driver meant to leave the car ?
