Your Opinions on the H-Shifter/Clutch Changes

Do you like or dislike the changes to the H-Shifter/Clutch combo?

  • Like

    Votes: 38 31.4%
  • Dislike

    Votes: 83 68.6%

  • Total voters
    121
  • Poll closed .
858
United Kingdom
Uk
TheLeggacy
I didn't know the advantage was that big though.
Why not ban steering wheels too since the advantage in feedback is tremendous, compared to the standard controller?
I think it’s more apparent on some cars than others, I’m not sure is a massive advantage? I’ve rarely got through a race without missing a shift and have made a few bad starts where I’ve missed 2nd gear off the line, that really sucks!
I sometimes think they should have matchmaking for wheel or pad only it would stop the complaining about a game that to me seems pretty balanced between wheel and pad.
I also think the pad players have some advantage over wheel users in that the pad has speed sensitive steering and it’s possible to go from lock to lock much faster than on a wheel. I find drifting on pad easy while it takes more skill to do it right on a wheel. And you pad users don’t have to pack the rig away each time you play just simply put the controller down and you’re done :P
 
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2,807
United States
Theresa, Wisconsin
I didn't know the advantage was that big though.
Why not ban steering wheels too since the advantage in feedback is tremendous, compared to the standard controller?

Why not just ban manual transmissions in Sport Mode if everyone really wants it to be "fair". I mean is there any question that manual is faster than automatic transmissions? Why allow manual trans users to have that advantage
 
45
United States
United States
Why not just ban manual transmissions in Sport Mode if everyone really wants it to be "fair". I mean is there any question that manual is faster than automatic transmissions? Why allow manual trans users to have that advantage

All they needed to do was make the transmission shift faster for paddle/ds4 users, and disable paddles for H-pattern users. If someone is really good with an H-pattern, then maybe he gains a few hundredths on upshifting - but there will be a disadvantage on downshifting, since heel/toe is slower than left foot braking. This would make it even, but only if the H-pattern user was really proficient.
 
858
United Kingdom
Uk
TheLeggacy
Why not just ban manual transmissions in Sport Mode if everyone really wants it to be "fair". I mean is there any question that manual is faster than automatic transmissions? Why allow manual trans users to have that advantage
Banning H pattern from sport races is what I said they should do much earlier in this thread... I can’t remember where? And it seems that’s way they gone, which I’m happy with.
 
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Greycap

The Flying Finn
Premium
5,667
Finland
Finland
I'm gonna tweet to gt, logitech and kaz every day until they revert the changes to the h pattern shifter in sport mode. I'm not happy at all. Driving dino with paddle shifters is stupid!
Did they really prevent the entire usage of the shifter in Sport mode instead of just taking the clutch out of the equation?
 
1,033
Iceland
Kópavogur, Iceland
Guffaluff
Did they really prevent the entire usage of the shifter in Sport mode instead of just taking the clutch out of the equation?

Yub. Did a Race A last night in the Berlinetta and is forced to use the paddles. I was expecting to be able to still use the shifter without the clutch, like before, which produces exactly the same shifts as using paddles.

Kinda sucks, as it is more immersive to use the shifter, even if it is clutch-less. Don't really see the point either, disabling the clutch is enough to provide parity.
 
4
United States
NY, USA
I see the update references "full manual". I've never seen a setting in the game for "full manual" though. Does it basically mean that if you choose manual in sport mode, you can only use paddles to shift? Or can you still use the H clutchlessly like before?

Dunno if someone already answered this, but if ur H-Pattern is hooked up, you CAN NOT use it clutchless, or otherwise, as you could previously in Sport Mode. Tried it out last night... Ur H-Pattern is null and void in Sport Mode, even if the locked/BOP settings specify "Manual Transmission"... Unless they get serious about the player-base interested in realism/simulation, ur stuck with paddle shifters in all Sport Mode events. Personally I think it stinks, and I also seriously doubt an update/fix is anywhere on their priority list going forward... I did some Touristen Fahrten last night on the Norschleife, and shifting is basically back to how it was outside of Sport Mode. They did keep the "Nintendo-ish" grinding sound effect though :-p

A few other quick comments about this manual/clutch witch hunt while I'm at it...

The guys with top 10 regional lap times are gonna kick ur @ss no matter whether ur using a clutch or not... I don't care enough to put any time into researching it, but I GUARANTEE there are a number of totally "non-simulation" tricks-of-the-trade going on. The one guy who posted earlier in the thread mentioned he was an EMEA finalist, and I'm sure he, if not many of you, know these other little "tricks". They are the things that are gonna make a hell of a lot bigger difference than some nonsense like using a clutch pedal... So why not hose that crap, if this is supposed to be "the real driving simulator"?! I mean look; on the Nordscleife, there's a jump at around Flugplatz, where you have to let off the throttle for a second, but in the game u can keep the pedal to the metal in most cars. Same goes for the last crest on the SchwedenKreuz section. Those video game lapses from reality are gonna make a lot bigger difference in the top lap times versus someone using a clutch. I love GT Sport, but I do get a little sour over this stuff, as it's really going far more towards E-Sports, than a simulator.
 
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ARTAsean

(Banned)
1,307
United States
United States
I mean look; on the Nordscleife, there's a jump at around Flugplatz, where you have to let off the throttle for a second, but in the game u can keep the pedal to the metal in most cars.

Flugplatz is pretty accurate IMO. The problem with that turn is, approaching Flugplatz you can hang 2 wheels into the grass on the left. There’s a small road there for recovery vehicles, and this split second of grip you get on this tiny bit of pavement is enough to allow you to take the turn impossibly wide, which allows for much more throttle use, and a much better run. You’ll see all the pro’s doing this, and it’s pretty ridiculous.

PD could solve this by defaulting the Grip loss at track edge to ‘real’; as this makes your tires lose traction for a few seconds after touching grass.
 
435
France
France
poumpoumk
I really hope they will update the clutch model in the next patch and find the right balance between the clutch feeling and the "performance" so it can be usable in sport mode...

If they did a rollback it probably means they're really concerned about the clutch so I still have hope for a better clutch model :)

Perhaps a system with no miss shift but just a strange noise (to indicate you've done something wrong in the shifting) and a delay of 0.2 / 0.3 sec before the gear is engaged or something like that... ?
 
303
Germany
Germany
I know I'm a bit late to the party with this question and I hate to dig up old graves, but I'm still struggling to understand how clutch users actually had an advantage prior to the 1.36 update. Am I correct in understanding that prior to 1.36, someone who pressed the clutch in and shifted the gear on their H shifter was getting a faster shift than someone who just tapped the paddle or H-shifted clutchlessly? How is this even possible? The clutchless H-shift and paddle shifts seem pretty much instantaneous to me. Struggle to see how introducing a pedal push made it faster....

Regardless, its a shame they've nuked clutchless shifting from Sport mode. Its damn weird to drive many of the cars with paddles and it just seems unnecessary to remove H shifting altogether when it gave no advantage when done clutchlessly...
 
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1,211
Switzerland
VS & 74 (France)
GT-Alex74
The advantage is only there for road cars equipped with a H pattern transmission in real life. The game puts some delay in the gear change when using no clutch, trying to simulate the action of pressing and releasing the pedal. The thing is the speed the game performs it are between "let's make sure I'm not grinding my gears" to "I need to go buy some bacon before I finish my shift". F50 is a good example of the former, Skyline R32 of the later.

Even with a F50 which shifts pretty fast using paddles, the clutch + shifter gave enough of an advantage that it gave you overtaking opportunities you couldn't get without it at Gardens. On the R32, the advantage on a single lap would be over a second.
 
303
Germany
Germany
Ah cool. Understood. So its more a hinderance on the paddles, than an advantage to the clutch.

You'd think removing the hindrance would be the obvious fix! I guess we're not the engineers who make the game so gotta just hope that they see it the same way as their fans do.
 

Scaff

Moderator
26,389
United Kingdom
He/Him
ScaffUK
ScaffGTP
Ah cool. Understood. So its more a hinderance on the paddles, than an advantage to the clutch.

You'd think removing the hindrance would be the obvious fix! I guess we're not the engineers who make the game so gotta just hope that they see it the same way as their fans do.
Given that's what quite literally every other title on the market has done, no reason exists as to why PD can't do it.
 
92
United States
Louisville KY
I really think GT Sport should put it back how it was I really enjoyed using my shifter totally changes my experience now I hope they switch it back
 
70
Australia
Australia
Have they changed the clutch again? I wasn’t missing nearly as many shifts today.
I miss way less shifts since they reverted it back compared to before they nerfed it... I'm not sure if it's down to my own improvement at downshifting and rev matching or its slightly different now. Haven't played today but it was normal for me last night!
 
1,033
Iceland
Kópavogur, Iceland
Guffaluff
Clutch is not binary anymore (on/off).

Try taking a road car that supports clutch to a track. Come to a stop, stay on the clutch and floor the throttle. Then very slowly release the clutch, and you will see it's not on/off.

Discovered this doing a grid start with the GT40, as it's super slow off the grid, so I had to gradually release the clutch to maintain better acceleration.

Not sure if this has always been like this, but I never noticed before. Maybe this is recent and the reason why people are having fewer misshifts?
 
70
Australia
Australia
Clutch is not binary anymore (on/off).

Try taking a road car that supports clutch to a track. Come to a stop, stay on the clutch and floor the throttle. Then very slowly release the clutch, and you will see it's not on/off.

Discovered this doing a grid start with the GT40, as it's super slow off the grid, so I had to gradually release the clutch to maintain better acceleration.

Not sure if this has always been like this, but I never noticed before. Maybe this is recent and the reason why people are having fewer misshifts?
I will test that out! Good news if it's the case. I was having loads of trouble getting off the mark last night doing the usual floor the accelerater and lift the clutch really quick in this game... That might explain why... Do you notice the clutch having a greater travel distance? As in it engages earlier in it's pedal travel? Rather than having to be flat to the floor.
 

Greycap

The Flying Finn
Premium
5,667
Finland
Finland
The clutch has never been an on/off switch. Admittedly the operating window has been ridiculously narrow in the middle of the pedal travel - something like 35% of nothing, then 30% of the actual operation, and again 35% of nothing - but it has been there all the time.
 
1,033
Iceland
Kópavogur, Iceland
Guffaluff
I will test that out! Good news if it's the case. I was having loads of trouble getting off the mark last night doing the usual floor the accelerater and lift the clutch really quick in this game... That might explain why... Do you notice the clutch having a greater travel distance? As in it engages earlier in it's pedal travel? Rather than having to be flat to the floor.

Haven't tested properly, but appearantly this has been the case according to Greycap :)

The clutch has never been an on/off switch. Admittedly the operating window has been ridiculously narrow in the middle of the pedal travel - something like 35% of nothing, then 30% of the actual operation, and again 35% of nothing - but it has been there all the time.
 
70
Australia
Australia
The clutch has never been an on/off switch. Admittedly the operating window has been ridiculously narrow in the middle of the pedal travel - something like 35% of nothing, then 30% of the actual operation, and again 35% of nothing - but it has been there all the time.
You find the clutch engage window to be in the middle of the pedal travel? I thought it was like bottom 20 percent or so
 

Greycap

The Flying Finn
Premium
5,667
Finland
Finland
You find the clutch engage window to be in the middle of the pedal travel? I thought it was like bottom 20 percent or so

It's weird. When pulling away from a standstill there was (pre-1.3something, I haven't tried since it was changed) a huge empty zone before it began engaging, then the travel from fully disengaged to fully engaged was very short but it was there, and then another huge empty zone before the pedal was fully released. However when shifting at speed PD required flooring the clutch completely, despite it certainly being fully disengaged long before that.