Zeta News 2.0: New VF Commodore and Chevrolet SS

[YSSMAN]

GM is trying to keep the buzz around its retro-futuristic 2009 Chevy Camaro alive with the debut of the Chevrolet Camaro Convertible concept. The company will showcase the new concept at this year's Detroit auto show in just over a week.

Well, these photos do several things for me:

1) The return of the Huggar Orange Camaro is upon us
2) The photo confirms the existence of a Camaro SS (check the stripes)
3) A convertible option is awesome, and it could show a convertible GTO and Monaro in the future as well
4) It looks like there is a usable back seat, even for some mid-sized adults

...Now lets hope they give the deets on production when the show starts at the end of the week...

 

[Jim Prower]

The stripes? I don't think we can base an SS's existence purely on the Stripes. When the SS emblem shows up in the grille, I'll be convinced. (though it won't suprise me in the least...I mean, come on. A Retro-looking Camaro lineup without SS?)

Besides, you could get those stripes (Rally Stripes, officially) with any engine you wanted way back when. It's called "Un-packaged options."

But, yeah, this car will be very, very popular as a convertible. 'specially around here, in the land of agressive G.M. dealerships.

 

[Duke]

4) It looks like there is a usable back seat, even for some mid-sized adults

Never utter the words "Camaro" and "usable back seat" in the same sentence again.

 

[bennyrrr]

Im loving the looks, lets just hope it can perform. And a GT500 beating SS Camaro would be great.

 

[Philly]

Never utter the words "Camaro" and "usable back seat" in the same sentence again.

He didn't.

I generally like the hardtop better, although I do think the rear looks better on the convertible. Cool color!

 

[Casio]

Interesting for Australia. Because we already had designed a Monaro/GTO convertible, but it never made production.

It did have quite usable rear seats, so the Camaro could too.

 

[iceburns288]

Wow, if that were coming out a year sooner, I'd cancel the Sky Red Line I had on order. Right now.

 

[Tornado]

2) The photo confirms the existence of a Camaro SS (check the stripes)

If I recall correctly, you could get stripes on a 4th gen. RS (read: V6) Camaro. And it was available on Z28's forever, I think.


Anyways, I'm not sure how the rear haunches translate into convertible very well. It seems to be the one thing the Mustang has pulled off better, style wise, though I won't confirm until I see more views.

 

[YSSMAN]

Im loving the looks, lets just hope it can perform. And a GT500 beating SS Camaro would be great.

We are talking about the same GT500, right? Considering that the Camaro will probably weigh a couple hundred pounds less, have the additional benefit of an independent rear suspension, and the addition of GM's know-how on making the most BHP work well with a good gear-set. Oh, and lets not forget that the Camaro SS will probably cost about $15,000 less as well.

...So, there is a pretty good chance that a Camaro SS could indeed take the GT500 without a problem. But knowing GM, a ZL-1 model is a near-certainty, and having 505 BHP on tap again in a car that is lighter, cheaper, and better-equipped... It will be the GT500 cowering in fear as the Camaro rolls down the street.

If I recall correctly, you could get stripes on a 4th gen. RS (read: V6) Camaro. And it was available on Z28's forever, I think.

Maybe in my overly excited move, I read into it a little bit too much, but I'm certain that they are a hint of some kind towards a performance model. Shale we look at some classic stripes?

'69 Z/28

'68 "Bumble Bee" stripes

'67 (I can't recall the name of the stripe)

 

[Syxx_Killer]

Now that is one sweet looking car. I love hugger orange.

 

[Tornado]

And a GT500 beating SS Camaro would be great.

Yep. As great and laughable as when the GT500 loses to the SVT Cobra.
I suggest you read this thread. The GT500 is nothing special. Never was.

Maybe in my overly excited move, I read into it a little bit too much, but I'm certain that they are a hint of some kind towards a performance model. Shale we look at some classic stripes?

I understand that, but there is also the fact that the stripes could be had as part of the RS package back then, which I believe could be applied to even the lowly base 3800 V6, as it could on the 4th gen. base Camaro post-1997 (with the same engine, even!).

 

[YSSMAN]

The good news is that although you should never buy a Camaro with a V6, the next-gen model won't be nearly as embarrassing given the use of the LY7 V6 (Aura, Enclave, CTS, etc) as the base engine. With power figures somewhere between 250-300 BHP (depends on what version they use), it makes it more powerful than 3rd Gen V8 Camaros, and may even be as fast as the early V8-powered 4th Gen models.

...I'm most interested to hear the deets on equipment packages. I'd like to get clarification on V8 packages, as there are quite a variety of choices these days. You've got the LS4 (303 BHP), L59 (320-325 BHP), L76 (355-367 BHP), LS2 (400 BHP), L92 (403 BHP), LS7 (505-515 BHP), and LS9 (600-650 BHP). It should make your model shopping fun, assuming that GM allows for several engines to find their way into the Camaro.

I'm hoping for a "cheap" Z/28 powered by the L76, followed by the "reasonable" SS with the LS2, and then a high-end ZL-1 with the LS7. We'll find out (hopefully) just a few days from now...

 

[Onikaze]

More Corvette SS Rumors are abounding suggesting 650 Horsepower from the "LS9".

That would leave room for something crazy freaky awesome, like a Camaro SS with the "regular" LS7...

That would be enough to turn me to the dark side of Camaro fandom.

Big thumpin 7 liter engine under the hood, tuxedo black body, matte black stripes, I could get used to that quickly.

 

[TopHat]

Most likely, there will be the big block option. If not, that is a cryin shame. I would Imagine that the Z/28 would have the LS4 or the L59, also, what about the possibility of an IROC Camaro? Maybe with the LS2.....Then the SS with the LS7 or some new engine in between the LS2 and LS7... maybe w/450 hp...The LS5 maybe?

 

[YSSMAN]

Most likely, there will be the big block option. If not, that is a cryin shame. I would Imagine that the Z/28 would have the LS4 or the L59, also, what about the possibility of an IROC Camaro? Maybe with the LS2.....Then the SS with the LS7 or some new engine in between the LS2 and LS7... maybe w/450 hp...The LS5 maybe?

A few things (not to be picky):

1) GM stops production of the big-block I believe this year, ending the long run with the last of the Vortec 8100s. The LS7 is indeed a small block taken to it's limits, and likely will go without any displacement increase in the near future.

2) A lot of what the Z/28 gets is dependant on how GM decides to classify the Camaro. I've always hoped that they bring back a "non-sporting" V8 model, but chances are that it would not happen. That said, the L59 would probably be the lowest-end V8 to be seen in the car, given that Ford will probably bump the power in the Mustang GT to compensate. That or they just go with the L76 like they should...

3) The return of the IROC could be a possibility (given that IROC still runs Firebirds), however I'm certain that they will just stick with the Z/28 name.

4) I do not know of any kind of intermediary between the LS2 and LS7, but I think a choice of the LS2 would be enough to keep the car back from the Corvette, given the higher weight overall.

 

[Tornado]

A few things (not to be picky):

1) GM stops production of the big-block I believe this year, ending the long run with the last of the Vortec 8100s.

NOOOOOOOOOOO! Not the 8100. Why GM, why? First the 3800, and now the 8100? At least let it make it to its 50th birthday!

 

[V1P3R]

It's ok looking, no surprises.

 

[harrytuttle]

4) It looks like there is a usable back seat, even for some mid-sized adults

I don't know about "mid-size". Maybe "compact" or "sub-compact" adults....

I think it looks good, but that's because it's essentially unchanged from the coupe. However, it looks strange in profile. The windshield looks like one of those modern stubby FM antennas, and the angle looks way too steep. I wonder what that implies about the chassis actual rigidity.

 

[YSSMAN]

The windshield looks like one of those modern stubby FM antennas, and the angle looks way too steep. I wonder what that implies about the chassis actual rigidity.

The older 4th gen had a very steep rake on the windshield as well, so my guess is that it is more of a styling thing than anything else. Structural rigidity should be pretty good, probably better than the Mustang, but obviously it won't be perfect, since I hardly doubt that the Zeta program was created completely with a convertible in mind, however I would imagine that the possibility was always discussed.

 

[Tornado]

The older 4th gen had a very steep rake on the windshield as well, so my guess is that it is more of a styling thing than anything else.

For example:

 

[Bram Turismo]

Bah, eww, ugly! I really don't like it, if that's the future of American sportscar then I'd even prefer Toyota!

 

[YSSMAN]

Don't worry, they probably won't sell it in Norway...

As for it "being the future," it is just a retro-styled follow-up to the long-standing Camaro name. Dodge had the same idea with the Challenger, and so too Ford with the Mustang. It is the return of the ponycar, not the sports car. However, you can bet that the Camaro and Challenger will do their best to outrun cars like the BMW 335i, Nissan 350Z, Mazda RX8, etc...

 

[GT4_Rule]

I love the looks! I'd take this over the Mustang now

 

[TopHat]

Agreed. I've always like GM better than FoMoCo. Chevy>Ford Cadillac>Lincoln

BUT. Mercury>Buick.

 

[YSSMAN]

More interesting Zeta news for 2007:

General Motors is definitely considering building a Pontiac on its new Zeta rear-wheel-drive architecture, but it won't use the Firebird nameplate. In an interview of Edmunds, Jim R. Hopson, Communications Manager for Pontiac, said, "we're looking at developing a vehicle on the architecture that's under the Camaro, it just won't be called a Firebird.

Using the GTO moniker remains a possibility, though some enthusiasts likely feel the name has been damaged in recent years due to the lackluster design of the previous GTO.

My guess is that they go with the GTO name anyway. All things considered, Pontiac doesn't have too many names going for it outside of the current G (insert number here) setup. The idea of a G7 or a G9 sounds kinda gay, thus GTO seems to make sense. Added to that, it has plenty of history here in North America. Although people claim that the previous GTO was a taint on the very history in question, I have to doubt that... As the GTO was not only a symbol of things to come from GM, but proved that they do indeed build world-class cars that can be accepted nearly anywhere in the world.

Ever since the GM Australia launched its new Holden VE Commodore, rumors began circulating that GM might export the rear-wheel-drive sedan to America as a Pontiac. Some reports suggested the car would be sold as the next Grand Prix, while others indicated it would be renamed G8.

Today, GM confirmed it will bring the Commodore to America as the Pontiac G8. "We are seriously planning to import a lot of Commodore SS sedans as Pontiac G8s," product development chief Bob Lutz told Australia's Drive today at the Detroit auto show, adding that the company could sell 50,000 G8s per year. "We are yet to officially announce it," he said.

The Commodore and G8 ride on GM's new Zeta rear-wheel-drive platform, which underpins the 2009 Camaro and the next-generation Impala, in addition to several other planned vehicles.

Well the story pretty much confirms what we pretty much had assumed. The name G8 does sound halfway decent, and although disappointing it may be to lose the long-standing Grand Prix name, we need a change. I am happy to hear that it sounds as though the G8 will be a direct-import of the Commodore... The car already looks somewhat Pontiac-esque, so it is just a matter of adding the kidney grille, and a few arrowhead badges on the car. However, 50K units per year seems kinda low, but I suppose that it is better for Pontiac to walk into the market slowly and thusly feel things out for the company.

However, I'm confused by the lack of the Impala at NAIAS. Maybe it will show up at Chicago with the G8? Maybe New York? Hmmm, that is the car that I've been waiting for as well... We'll see I suppose...

 

[Casio]

As far as I was aware the VE Commodore being exported as the Pontiac Grand Prix was official, it's been all over the papers here.

They want to keep the price under $25,000USD. Although I'm struggling to see how that will be done, since the Australian dollar is so strong at the moment. It's up to almost .80$ USD, meaning the SS price of ~50,000AUD here, is almost ~40,000USD.

 

[Jay]

They want to keep the price under $25,000USD. Although I'm struggling to see how that will be done, since the Australian dollar is so strong at the moment. It's up to almost .80$ USD, meaning the SS price of ~50,000AUD here, is almost ~40,000USD.

Oh I'm quite sure they will be able to keep the US price down like that, US market is very dependant on price, they will find away (While we get a price increase).

 

[YSSMAN]

The easiest way to keep prices down would be to produce the car in Canada or America, but it appears as though the G8 will be a direct-shipment of the Commodore. A $25K-ish base price probably includes a 3.9L OHV V6 featuring VVT and cylinder-deactivation, your standard 4L60E automatic, and a few other limited features to keep the car selling to those who want a little more than an Accord or Camry. The overwhelming majority of the cars will probably either sell with the LY7 V6 or the L76 V8, and should there indeed be a GXP/SS model (equipped with a LS2), I think $40K seems to be a reasonable price. You can max out quite a few Toyotas and Chryslers for nearly that much, I don't see why Pontiac or Chevrolet can't do the same on similar cars...

 

[YSSMAN]

...Strange, a lot of the Zeta updates have been coming in pairs lately...

General Motors has gone the extra mile to ensure the production 2009 Chevrolet Camaro is as close to the concept version as possible. Rather than using the exact same Zeta platform as the Holden Commodore and Pontiac G8, GM made the front axle centerline on the Camaro about 50mm further forward than on the two sedans, according to Motor Trend.

The expensive change was made to allow the Camaro and Impala to fit 20-inch wheels without compromising steering lock and turning radius. A Holden source told the magazine the car could even fit 24-inch wheels without issue. Does that mean the production Camaro will have wheels worthy of a show car? We think so.

At the Detroit auto show, GM officials again insisted the production Camaro would be very close to the concept — nearly identical, they say. According to the MT sources, the only visual differences will be a roofline about 3/5ths of an inch higher than concept, and an overall width reduction of about a third of an inch.

In terms of MSRP, GM sources told the magazine a V6 model will retail from $21,000. It will feature a 3.9-liter powerplant with a six speed automatic or manual. It promises to be considerably smoother than the truck-like 4.0-liter V6 under the hood of the base Mustang.

Well, I'm happy to hear that it will be extremely close to the concept version. I doubted very much that GM would have snubbed the fans, but you never know these days. Beyond that, the $21,000 base price leaves a lot of wiggle-room for V8 models, and given the decently high-power ratings of the 3.9L V6, the Camaro shouldn't have any trouble wiping the floor with the similarly equipped Mustang. Now if they would just give us the details on the V8 models...

Earlier this week, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz confirmed GM would import a rebadged version of the Holden Commodore to America as the Pontiac G8 — a replacement for the Grand Prix. The car is expected to debut at the Chicago auto show in February, and go on sale shortly thereafter. The Commodore is the first car built on GM's new rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform, which will also underpin the Chevy Camaro and other vehicles. The G8 will be built in Australia alongside the Commodore, and shipped to America.

But the G8 will only come from Australia for a short time, according to a report by the Detroit Free Press. GM will move production of the G8 to its plant in Oshawa, Ontario, in 2009, where it also plans to build the new Camaro, the newspaper said.

What's more, the Oshawa-built G8 will reportedly get "unique Pontiac styling." Initially, the Australian-built G8 will merely sport a Pontiac grille and badging. The "second-generation" G8 will share less sheetmetal with the Holden, if the report is to be believed. While is very unusual for an automaker to introduce a new design after only two years, GM might be using this strategy to get the G8 to market quickly, and refine the styling later.

That is indeed good news for those of us who want their Commodores as soon as possible. I'm wondering how "soon" it will end up being, but a guess would presumably be early summer at the absolute earliest. However, GM could surprise us. I do find the news about the production move a little odd, but I'm sure that some level of capacity will need to be freed up in Australia for the Monaro and Ute replacements on the VE chassis, so no major surprises there. However, I do have to question the need for a restyle in less than two years, but as long as it isn't overly significant, most people probably won't mind. I like the photoshopped images of the Commodore that Motor Trend a while ago (basically a Commodore SS with a Pontiac grille and a few extra arrowheads), and I think most normal people will as well.

...We'll see what happens. I'm probably, more than likely, about 98% sure that I'm going to the Chicago Auto Show (like I normally do), so I'll be sure to take plenty of photos of the American Zeta cars when I get there (February 9 is opening day I believe).

 

[JCE]

I'm glad that the G8's will be built in Australia from the outset...now if they could just keep them being built there and not build them in NA. We don't need the unionized BS that North America has to step in and make them less than decent build quality.

And as for the Camaro this is the one case that a V6 would be acceptable in a American sports car...the Camaro's looks alone are worth the price of admission. The V6 Mustang looks ok, it just doens't look nearly as good as the GT with the subtle differences.