Major Earthquake & Tsunami in Japan

  • Thread starter a6m5
  • 1,128 comments
  • 103,730 views
Well, perhaps unsurprisingly, the media are perhaps focusing on this nuclear plant story a little too much. The explosion, while dramatic, is largely inconsequential, given the rector appears to be intact. Assuming the engineers are able to keep core cooled, there doesn't appear to be any immediate danger, I think comparisons to a Chernobyl type disaster are a a shade dramatic.

I can understand why this is of concern, but realistic danger compared to the constantly replayed footage of the plant explosion, seems to be confusing a good number of people.
 
The problem is that it isn't, or at least wasn't clear if the core is really damaged or not. A Chernobyl type disaster was possible and actually still is (maybe unlikely but not impossible). But yeah, repeating the footage all the time won't help at all.
 
Well, perhaps unsurprisingly, the media are perhaps focusing on this nuclear plant story a little too much.

I think that such a focus is justified, of course the other current issues are extremely important but if this reactor goes to full meltdown it could kill more people over the next 50-100 years than were killed just by the earthquake and tsunami. Most things can be rebuilt, radiation you pretty much can never get rid of and it will go on silently affecting people.

An expert on CNN said that even if the reactor disaster ends now in its current state it would be one of the 3 worst nuclear disasters in history.

Dotini
Yes, containment buildings must be largely ornamental, much like faux crenelations on country mansions, to satisfy popular taste in style.

I do have to say I find there containment building 'tile art' intriguing, were they going for some kind of Pollock look or something!? Make nuclear look safe and friendly?

Robin.
 
An expert on CNN said that even if the reactor disaster ends now in its current state it would be one of the 3 worst nuclear disasters in history.
I would call that a exaggeration, Chernobyl, Kyshtym, Chalk River, Windscale all seem to be bigger so far.
 
I caught a fragment of a CNN interview which talked about plutonium in one of the reactors at the same facility.
 
I caught a fragment of a CNN interview which talked about plutonium in one of the reactors at the same facility.

Only if the main fission reaction went critical, which can't happen seeing as it's technically been off since the earthquake hit. Only the main fission products are still "running", which is causing the residual heat.
EDIT: I thought power generation is from uranium these days, given that plutonium is favoured for weapons..?
 
Last edited:
Only if the main fission reaction went critical, which can't happen seeing as it's technically been off since the earthquake hit. Only the main fission products are still "running", which is causing the residual heat.
EDIT: I thought power generation is from uranium these days, given that plutonium is favoured for weapons..?

Apparently it is in use as "an experimental fuel" in one of the adjacent reactors.

But maybe the Japanese have been caught with their pants down monkeying with nuclear weaponry.
 
Yes, containment buildings must be largely ornamental, much like faux crenelations on country mansions, to satisfy popular taste in style.

Since I am detecting sarcasm levels slightly higher than background levels, I feel compelled to reply.

I used the the word largely, and I am of course speaking of the bigger picture. Clearly, a relatively big explosion at a nuclear facility is less than ideal. However, I am talking in terms of the large scale implications of this. The reason people are worried about this, is because they are worried about the association with explosions at nuclear power plants and the Chernobyl disaster.

The Chernobyl explosion was a result of a reactor meltdown and a pretty spectacular meltdown at that, the explosion here at Fukushima is not a result of a meltdown, and because of this, the damage to the building is not important compared with potential damage to the reactor. In the scheme of things, a reactor meltdown would have far graver implications for the local, national and perhaps even global area.

To put it into perspective, the giant fireballs at oil refineries, probably pose a greater health risk to those in the local area, than the radiation discharged in this explosion, yet the nuclear plant explosion gets significantly more coverage, because its a nuclear power plant.

The only reason you would be particularly concerned about this explosion, is if you thought it may have damaged the integrity of the reactor, but since it has been confirmed that it hasn't, you might expect the news channels to stop showing the explosion every 5 minutes.

The main concern is how effectively engineers can cool the reactor, although there is not much news on this currently. I certainly wouldn't want to downplay the severity of the situation, I am just questioning why reports want to focus on the explosion (after its been deemed relatively safe), rather than the engineers cooling efforts, of which a lot is still at stake.

The engineers and plant workers definitely deserve a lot of credit. They are working in very dangerous conditions to prevent a potentially large scale disaster.

I think that such a focus is justified, of course the other current issues are extremely important but if this reactor goes to full meltdown it could kill more people over the next 50-100 years than were killed just by the earthquake and tsunami. Most things can be rebuilt, radiation you pretty much can never get rid of and it will go on silently affecting people.

Yes but from what I am seeing, a large proportion is on an explosion which happened some time ago, an explosion that is largely inconsequential in terms of the potential disaster of a full reactor meltdown.

People look at the TV and see an explosion at a nuclear facility and panic, because the majority of people do not understand the implications of it, and assume it to parallel the Chernobyl explosion. The reality is that the situation there seems to be largely under control, and there are no major health risks associated with that explosion. I would like to see the news focus on the engineers efforts to cool the reactor, rather than repeatedly showing me the explosion because its dramatic.

An expert on CNN said that even if the reactor disaster ends now in its current state it would be one of the 3 worst nuclear disasters in history.

The CNN experts analysis, conflicts with the atomic agencies (?) assessment of the situation. It is currently a level 4, and will remain at level 4 unless a meltdown occurs. There have been a good number of incidents in the past which have been level 5 or higher, so as of now the Fukushima 'disaster' is not the 3rd worst nuclear disaster in histroy (of course, it still has the potential to be assuming a meltdown occurs). Of course, I'm not entirely surprised to see an 'expert' on CNN 'hyping' up the situation.
 
Last edited:
FOX news is reporting reactor #2 has gone on red alert, a dead worker has been found at reactor #4, and efforts to pour seawater on reactor #1 have been interrupted by aftershocks, and that USGS reports that the main island of Japan has moved 8 feet.
 
Japan-car-roof_1847249i.jpg

Avoidance of parking charges.

japan-ship_1847169i.jpg


japan-trawlers_1847158i.jpg


japan-plane_1847160i.jpg

Perfect landing
 
Last edited:
Apparently it is in use as "an experimental fuel" in one of the adjacent reactors.

But maybe the Japanese have been caught with their pants down monkeying with nuclear weaponry.

I've tried to read up on it. Uranium-238 is the most abundant form of Uranium, but it isn't fissile; U-235 is fissile, but it has to be enriched from natural stocks. So they enrich it slightly, and rely on the U-235 and other neutron sources to bombard the remaining U-238 to form Pu-239, which is fissile (and is used in weapons) and contributes one third of the power generated in a Uranium-fueled nuclear reactor.

This route was taken many years ago (i.e. in the 1930s) precisely because Plutonium is a "by-product" and could be used for weapons. There are ways to isolate the Plutonium to use in weapons, and this is what Chernobyl was all about, by leaving the fuel rods in for a shorter time and separating the resulting Plutonium, then recycling the Uranium.

Leaving the fuel in for as long as possible, the Plutonium will be used up. Plus, it's probably "not allowed" to have the facility to actually separate the Plutonium from the spent fuel. What might be happening here is the fuel rods are still fairly new, so contain a decent amount of Plutonium - disposal should be interesting.

---------

More on these towns north of Sendai; there have been 300-400 bodies found in the town of Rikuzentakata, north of Kesennuma, itself north of Minami Sanriku, the town that was totally decimated by the Tsunami. The theme here seems to be that their bays open up in the direction the Tsunami came from (assuming it is the same as the Earthquake's epicentre).
 
Was Hokkaido affected at all or is it just Honshu that is suffering all the damage?
 
A FOX news update says:
- 3 of the 4 reactors on now on red alert.
- 3 workers have "gone down" with radiation sickness.
- Over 100 people are suffering some kind of radiation sickness.
- Japanese TV is now running cartoon animations of how people should dress to protect themselves from radiation.
- Iodine is now being distributed.
 
There have been a good number of incidents in the past which have been level 5 or higher, so as of now the Fukushima 'disaster' is not the 3rd worst nuclear disaster in histroy (of course, it still has the potential to be assuming a meltdown occurs). Of course, I'm not entirely surprised to see an 'expert' on CNN 'hyping' up the situation.

Yes, indeed. There have been a lot more and by far much worse nuclear accidents in the past.


I noticed the english wikipedia lacks with information: Nuclear and radiation accidents

Here for the comparsion the german wikipedia (translated with google translate): List of accidents at nuclear facilities


I just noticed there was another nuclear accident in Chernobyl 1982, before the big meltdown 1986. :eek:

"Chernobyl, the Soviet Union
September, 1982 – In the block 1 of Chernobyl KKW a fuel canal was destroyed by mistake of the staff in the middle of the reactor. A large amount of radioactive substances were distributed about the industrial area of the nuclear power arrangement and the town Prypjat. The staff which was occupied with the liquidation of the consequences of this accident received high ray boxes. (INES: 5)"


PS: and this are only the confirmed accidents. Also don't forget all the contamination due to the US, Russian, Japanese, French, ... nuclear tests.
 
A FOX news update says:
- 3 of the 4 reactors on now on red alert.
- 3 workers have "gone down" with radiation sickness.
- Over 100 people are suffering some kind of radiation sickness.
- Japanese TV is now running cartoon animations of how people should dress to protect themselves from radiation.
- Iodine is now being distributed.

The situation is looking very bad indeed now. It's definitely looking like the situation is far worse than initially reported. That is of course assuming FOX news is correct. I haven't seen such reports on other sources, but I have been away recently.
 
A question for the experts:

Assuming the reactor can be controlled/stabilized with seawater flooding, what comes next?

Can the fuel then be removed and transported elsewhere?

Or would a Chernobyl - style sarcophagus be constructed?

PS: I detest FOX network, and I'm loathe to believe a word they say or a number that they utter.
However, the reporter on the ground in Japan delivering the news appeared to be very sober.

Edit: CNN is reporting a second reactor now receiving the saltwater douche.
 
Last edited:
Edit: CNN is reporting a second reactor now receiving the saltwater douche.

BBC appear to be reporting the same thing, this can only be a good thing.

Still no more on the reactor red alert, or the workers radiation sickness.
 
Ahem... Boron douche.

Yes, exactly. Boric acid was mentioned. Seawater would be a desperate thing to subject an atomic reactor to, since it is very corrosive at high temperatures.

Edit: CNN has been interviewing a nuclear physicist, Edward Lyman, off and on all morning. He said he knows of no reactor emergency plan anywhere in the world which calls for the use of seawater under any circumstances. He says that the use of seawater indicates a situation of desperation, but he would not fault them for trying it.
 
Last edited:
There's alot of conflicting reports going around right now, all the news agencies are trying to hold onto viewers instead of just saying, "Check back later when we can confirm something." We likely won't know what's actually happening right now until it's happened.
 
#
2022: Reuters: The IAEA says it has been told by Japan that levels of radioactivity near the Fukushima No. 1 plant have fallen in recent hours
#
2023: Reuters: The IAEA says the operator of the plant has confirmed that the primary containment vessel is intact following this morning's blast.

True or not? That annoys me the most, they need independent controls there "Japan has told...".

EDIT:
#
2039: Ian Hore-Lacy of the World Nuclear Association told the BBC he believes the situation at the nuclear power plant - where sea water is being used to cool the reactor core - is under control: "The point is that the heat, decay heat from the fuel drops off very rapidly. So after an hour, an hour following the shut down, it's down to about 2 or 3% I think. And after 24 hours it's down to half a per cent. So the amount of heat you've got to cope with right now is a small fraction of what there was initially."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

EDIT²:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...89,140.756836&spn=22.232593,53.569336&t=h&z=5
High-res sattelite images, Sendai looks really horrible.
 
Last edited:
Reported damage was horrible yesterday. Today, it is just unbelievable. I don't know what to think at this point. Death toll, damage(that one F-2 Jet in post#402 costs over $100million, U.S.), and the extent of the effect they will have from the nuclear plant in Fukushima. This is too much.
 
Here is a google map-link to Minamisanriku where you can see the original condition of the town.

Below the photo after the tsunami impact. The remained building at the photo is centred at the map.

501433-minamisanriku.jpg


That is so crazy.
 
More worrying news.

#
2212: Some clarification: It is the number three reactor at the Fukushima No. 1 plant where officials have just announced that the cooling system has failed. This morning's blast took place at the number one reactor at the same plant. "All the functions to keep cooling water levels in No. 3 reactor have failed at the Fukushima No. 1 plant," a spokesman for the operator said.

And on the bbc news there was an experts opinion that had obviously been pre recorded saying that aslong as the cooling system held then there shouldn't be a problem. (of which the cooling has now broken)
 
Last edited:
Many of you probably have seen a footage like this already. This was from new perspective for me of tsunami, also rooftop rescue by choppers.
 
Back