- 1,173
- Drex81
I have a g27 and it is better for me. I can actually drive like real life without missing shifts.
If I wanna race and go fast it's still too slow..
If I wanna race and go fast it's still too slow..
Gran Turismo 5's Updated Clutch Review.
- Thread starter MOTORTRENDmitch
- 161 comments
- 19,142 views
- 799
- Skuh
I could live with it being slower, fun is the primary thing for me on the wheel and especially with a clutch and h shifter. Wouldnt mind having to switch to paddle buttons for super fast times if the clutch worked (only got dfgt, thinking of upgrading).
- 509
- Nevada
- racing_JOHNSON
Yeah I have to say I like it a LOT better myself. Still cant power shift which takes away realism, but I feel like they got it better. I did a lap at Nurburgring in a completely stock car I tried just before update and I feel like it shifts easier now. Aside from the clutch the game physics feel like they got better.
I'll also add that I am using the stock pedals removed from plastic and mounted flipped so I get full clutch throw very easily,this may have some effect.
- 746
- dukie827
Okay, good. I thought I suddenly sucked at the game after going into Neutral every minute of driving. I had no idea that 2.08 "updated" the clutch. Whew! Well, 2.09 better fix this problem.
- 2,822
- Espoo
- GTP_Raitzi
PD continues to think that player should not have control on controls. In PC games you can adjust anything from dead zones to progression, FBB, you name it. Also GT5 lacks any calibration of controllers which could lead to that with some wheels it might even be impossible to shift because calibration of deadzone is wrong.
For my part: T500 RS here, it´s much better now! The response is much more realistic and I can finally "play" a bit with clutch and throttle during grid start. Also, there is a progress regarding disengaging the clutch in case, when you wanna catch the slide a bit more gently. Even if the clutch isn´t perfect in GT5, smooth procedure is the key here and I do the same in real car every day.
- 8,698
I think it's a massive improvement, it's very similar to (but in some ways better than) the clutch in Live For Speed.
Just remove the requirement to have the throttle less than about 10% (not zero as the OP claims) and it'll be great. Add in clutch overheating and wear and it'll be excellent.
Then remove the requirement to select neutral before re-selecting the gear you wanted when you mis-shift, so that the gear lever position is constantly monitored for the requested gear (instead of only when it changes position), and it'll be superb.
Just remove the requirement to have the throttle less than about 10% (not zero as the OP claims) and it'll be great. Add in clutch overheating and wear and it'll be excellent.
Then remove the requirement to select neutral before re-selecting the gear you wanted when you mis-shift, so that the gear lever position is constantly monitored for the requested gear (instead of only when it changes position), and it'll be superb.
- 195
- Italy
- Fender_st
- r u kiddin me?!?
agreed,
actually, I like that new clutch system too; but it's still not perfect:
now, disengaging the clutch it's very close the real life way (you can feel the progress as traditional "analog axis"); on the other hand, hitting the clutch full way to engage it you feel the unrealistic previous on/off effect; (I have G25)
in conclusion, I've always thought that paddle shifting should be quicker that H+clutch shifting (as in real life).
just my two cents,
Yes, indeed. Moreover: it´s not true, repeat: it is not true, that heel & toe, h-pattern, no assits is slower than two pedals & paddle shifting. That´s just not true, because I can remember my golden iRacing time, when I always preferred heel & toe, h-pattern, no assists and was still capable to vinning races!! The same here in our MWCRC league. The fact is that you need a bit more time for practice to be able to compete with "casual players"... It´s just a matter of time when you will be actually faster and moreover: no crashes, repeat: no crashes because of smooth methodology driving corner by corner, lap by lap.
Why? Because under exact procedures techniques they are used in real life, you still have the car completely under control in every milisecond on the limit, and slightly above the limit itself and I feel great in GT5, because it´s very close to the real thing. And yes, there are cars, where this method is definitely faster - per example the mentioned Ferrari F40 (in this case you can use this real driving technique and you will feel much more comfortable in tricky situations and you will win every race because of that) and I cannot imagine to use paddle shifters and no clutch - works not for me and I´m more than 1.5 second slower here with paddle shifters and no clutch! Try it! As someone here said: more clutch features and it will be the greatest clutch in simulated motorsport.
Why? Because under exact procedures techniques they are used in real life, you still have the car completely under control in every milisecond on the limit, and slightly above the limit itself and I feel great in GT5, because it´s very close to the real thing. And yes, there are cars, where this method is definitely faster - per example the mentioned Ferrari F40 (in this case you can use this real driving technique and you will feel much more comfortable in tricky situations and you will win every race because of that) and I cannot imagine to use paddle shifters and no clutch - works not for me and I´m more than 1.5 second slower here with paddle shifters and no clutch! Try it! As someone here said: more clutch features and it will be the greatest clutch in simulated motorsport.
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- 1,535
- Tarragona,Spain
- FOXIOL
Sorry but you went to iRacing and came back to GT5?...i mean really?
If you care about proper physics, simulation, driving itself, FFB, sounds and great online...why you came back to GT5? Tired of paying for everything?
I mean i play rFactor 1/2 Beta, LFS, GSC 2012 (which is incredible), FVA, GTR2 and many more...i mean, i entered in the simulation area (mostly thanks to GT series) and now every time i came back to GT5 it just feels so wrong and it is easy to see what is wrong in the game. (talking about the simulation itself and overall details)
By now it is very hard for me to "come" and play GT5 and enjoy it...mostly because of those physics errors and engine sounds. I can´t enjoy it anymore and immersion is lost. I fall asleep while playing...literally.
Still i love the game...graphics and the level of detail in some areas are amazing but it needs tons of things that proper and REAL simulators have.
That´s why to me is incredible that you came back to GT5 after the "iRacing experience"...
- 1,414
- redrobin347
I'm a G27 owner. I spent very little time with the clutch last night but noticed some differences. When driving the car at about 80% - 90% i had no issues with miss shifting. When i would go all out at 100% and really push i would start miss shifting.
Overall i feel there is a slight improvement. Before the update i wouldn't even bother using the clutch as i would always miss 3rd and 4th gear. Now it seems a bit more enjoyable to cruise around with. I'll still avoid using it during races however.
Overall i feel there is a slight improvement. Before the update i wouldn't even bother using the clutch as i would always miss 3rd and 4th gear. Now it seems a bit more enjoyable to cruise around with. I'll still avoid using it during races however.
Hi mate,
of course, but for my part - it´s darn easy: I´m a dad, have 5 years old boy, wife and a good job. The reason was mainly "family" - as you can see by our club. Fact is that I have also some experience regarding real world racing environment and in this case I prefer GT5 instead of iRacing. The reason behind it is "less synthetic, more natural experience".
Generally speaking: you cannot learn much race craft in simulated motorsport, but you can learn almost anything else (professional driving techniques - please read books Speed Secrets, consistency regarding lap times, psychosomatic part of racing and time trials, different racing lines, different types of braking, setup, etc...
That´s also the answer why GT ACADEMY works fine in real life and as you can see. Each winner of GT Academy has pretty good chances in real life (actually: they are winning races!!! since "day two" in real racing environment). From the point of iRacing history and attempts to do the same, we cannot say something like that.
The reason is that iRacing is actually focuses on ultimate realism on a computer. That´s good I love it! But on the same time I can easily say that IT WILL NEVER WORK in real life. Too much realism on a computer doesn´t necessarily mean easier access to reality. Generally speaking: most of the so called ultimate racing realism simulators (rFactor, iRacing) are too sensitive - mainly regarding axis controls according to real life suspension data. That´s because of limited possibilities of input devices we are using, no feedback from car suspension, no peripheral vision in 1x1 (FOV narrow works really good in GT5).
The goal to be pro in real life even when you were racing just on a computer is to develop a good basic handling habits and here GT5 is better than iRacing, because it will teach you only AS MUCH AS YOU NEED FOR REAL THING... Nothing more, nothing less. When I tested the Skip Barber in iRacing for the first time, I just said no, that is not real at all, because if it was real, 70% of new school aplicants will lost their life during first driving lesson. The car was too sensitive, no grip at all, no chance to learn anything. As you ca see. It was updated but after a year or two (cannot remember), even though the Skip Barber was proclaimed as the most realistic replica ever. It was simply not truth and you cannot learn anything from that car. Solstice was better choice for the start.
Less synthetic means more natural feeling and more courage to develop proper basic skills they will probably work in real life (depends on natural talent). Hence the GT5 is recommended to everyone who would like to start real racing. I personally prefer GT5 instead of iRacing even when I´m a dad, have a boy, wife, job = less time.
Our club was established under these simple rules. Behave on track as if you were sitting in real car. We are not hot-lappers, we are mature gentlemans (slapping by our life stories and experiences) they enjoy GT5 as real as it gets. IT works amazing but you must find good mates with same goal, effort and sense for team work on track.
Cheers!
BTW: make no mistake, iRacing is the best motorsport simulator on the market yet and if I was a slob in real life, I´d probably come back to iRacing, but no thanks. GT5 totally meets my requirements.
of course, but for my part - it´s darn easy: I´m a dad, have 5 years old boy, wife and a good job. The reason was mainly "family" - as you can see by our club. Fact is that I have also some experience regarding real world racing environment and in this case I prefer GT5 instead of iRacing. The reason behind it is "less synthetic, more natural experience".
Generally speaking: you cannot learn much race craft in simulated motorsport, but you can learn almost anything else (professional driving techniques - please read books Speed Secrets, consistency regarding lap times, psychosomatic part of racing and time trials, different racing lines, different types of braking, setup, etc...
That´s also the answer why GT ACADEMY works fine in real life and as you can see. Each winner of GT Academy has pretty good chances in real life (actually: they are winning races!!! since "day two" in real racing environment). From the point of iRacing history and attempts to do the same, we cannot say something like that.
The reason is that iRacing is actually focuses on ultimate realism on a computer. That´s good I love it! But on the same time I can easily say that IT WILL NEVER WORK in real life. Too much realism on a computer doesn´t necessarily mean easier access to reality. Generally speaking: most of the so called ultimate racing realism simulators (rFactor, iRacing) are too sensitive - mainly regarding axis controls according to real life suspension data. That´s because of limited possibilities of input devices we are using, no feedback from car suspension, no peripheral vision in 1x1 (FOV narrow works really good in GT5).
The goal to be pro in real life even when you were racing just on a computer is to develop a good basic handling habits and here GT5 is better than iRacing, because it will teach you only AS MUCH AS YOU NEED FOR REAL THING... Nothing more, nothing less. When I tested the Skip Barber in iRacing for the first time, I just said no, that is not real at all, because if it was real, 70% of new school aplicants will lost their life during first driving lesson. The car was too sensitive, no grip at all, no chance to learn anything. As you ca see. It was updated but after a year or two (cannot remember), even though the Skip Barber was proclaimed as the most realistic replica ever. It was simply not truth and you cannot learn anything from that car. Solstice was better choice for the start.
Less synthetic means more natural feeling and more courage to develop proper basic skills they will probably work in real life (depends on natural talent). Hence the GT5 is recommended to everyone who would like to start real racing. I personally prefer GT5 instead of iRacing even when I´m a dad, have a boy, wife, job = less time.
Our club was established under these simple rules. Behave on track as if you were sitting in real car. We are not hot-lappers, we are mature gentlemans (slapping by our life stories and experiences) they enjoy GT5 as real as it gets. IT works amazing but you must find good mates with same goal, effort and sense for team work on track.
Cheers!
BTW: make no mistake, iRacing is the best motorsport simulator on the market yet and if I was a slob in real life, I´d probably come back to iRacing, but no thanks. GT5 totally meets my requirements.
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- 42
- West sussex
- honeymonster505
The clutch is rubbish, if nothing is changed soon then i'll probably just downgrade to a DFGT, please PD sort this out....
- 243
- Belgium
No you are not - yesterday evening i was extremely disappointed when i first tested the new patch (using a T500RS with TH8RS shifter).
As i reloaded GT5 several hours later and had another go, it felt like a massive improvement. Played for about an hour, from timed laps to free run on comfort hard tyres to full out drifting, all i can say is on a T500 RS with a TH8RS shifter it feels better than pre-2.08 BUT still doesn't feel like it should. There still is a lot of room for improvement.
From reading above posts i can only come to the following conclusion, P.D. has tried to improve the clutch settings and while doing so i think they "only tested their improvements with the T500RS wheel/TH8RS shifter". I say this because the only people who seem improvements after patch 2.08 seem to be T500RS owners.
As a huge fan of the game, i can only conclude that patch 2.08 has failed the GT5-fanbase. Yet, we all must be happy that PD still provides support for this marvellous game, i think i could name u enough games that quit their game-support a year after its release.
Amaru's 2 cents
* Thank you PD for putting effort into improving GT5; Where there's a will, there's a road.
- 509
- Nevada
- racing_JOHNSON
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
mikeonthebike
How is the clutch on the G27?
- 509
- Nevada
- racing_JOHNSON
I quoted what I said in the thread earlier for ya. Just feels better overall. I got to where I could shift real quick the way it was using the clutch and I drift using the clutch. BEFORE I had to make an effort in the shift sequence to LIFT throttle before doing anything to avoid the missed shift. AFTER update I find that I can go right for the clutch then lift throttle and gear change and it's quicker than it was before and feels more like a natural clutch change.
AlSO before the update I parked a car, pulled my ebrake, Held it on and burned the clutch up to see where it would finally kill the engine while using throttle as well and I noted where that spot was ( starting right before middle and ending middle of throw or so) Now the same car doing above test I can slip the clutch starting from a little off the floor to almost full clutch throw.
- 617
- GTP_african_kat
well said buddy, well said. this is a hugely frustrating issue particularly because its such a familiar scenario with PD. this is what happens when geeks make all the decisions - they end up overthinking stuff
- 1,535
- Tarragona,Spain
- FOXIOL
Thanks for reply "Pianoman" and take care of that little boy. j
hehehe.
Yes, you have a point there and i can agree with that. Still to me for example nor iRacing and not even rFactor (2 mostly) feels as "natural" as GSC 2012 (Game Stock Car from Reiza).
You should try that one first of all because it is cheap, based on gMotor from rFactor but it is way different and better, you can play alone or online if you want. But the feeling of that game is the best for me. Give it a try and you´ll see what i am talking about.
Driving is not easy and is not that hard at the same time...games sometimes wants to imitate realism and at some points they used to exaggerate things in the simulation. But in this game you´ll feel it as natural as it should be.
You won´t need a learning curve...just drive, improve and learn the limits of the cars. As in GT5 but way better in all points. You´ll never see that physics has errors or something feels weird...it is just like driving real cars.
Try it. I did it less than a month ago and i was amazed by this game.
hehehe. Yes, you have a point there and i can agree with that. Still to me for example nor iRacing and not even rFactor (2 mostly) feels as "natural" as GSC 2012 (Game Stock Car from Reiza).
You should try that one first of all because it is cheap, based on gMotor from rFactor but it is way different and better, you can play alone or online if you want. But the feeling of that game is the best for me. Give it a try and you´ll see what i am talking about.
Driving is not easy and is not that hard at the same time...games sometimes wants to imitate realism and at some points they used to exaggerate things in the simulation. But in this game you´ll feel it as natural as it should be.
You won´t need a learning curve...just drive, improve and learn the limits of the cars. As in GT5 but way better in all points. You´ll never see that physics has errors or something feels weird...it is just like driving real cars.
Try it. I did it less than a month ago and i was amazed by this game.
Ooops, totally forgot to mention per example the superb NetKar simulator (I tested one of the earliest version). Yes, this kind of simulation is also one of the best, if not the best at the moment and as you can see it feels much more natural than iRacing. Thanks for good reminder (Kunos).
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- 1,095
- United Kingdom
- Traviizter
May I ask what is?
- 2,234
- Upstate NY
- BWX232
I use Fanatec CSR Elite pedals, CSR Elite H-Pattern shifter, CSR wheel, I also had G25 pedals before..
The clutch is actually a lot better now.. The clutch, not the H-Pattern shifter. They are two separate things remember.
I don't know how anyone could say an on/off switch in the middle of travel is better than an actual progressive pedal engagement like it is now.
The problem is not the clutch, it's the shifting simulation. It's not right.. You should be able to keep foot on throttle in most cars and still go into gear. That's the main issue. Also, if you do miss a shift, it shouldn't just end up in N, that's stupid. You should just be able to kick clutch again and have it be in gear you selected.. BUT- you shouldn't miss the shift in the first place, it should go into gear unless you don't push clutch in at all or something.. even then it should go in gear if you rev-match in a car with a synchro-mesh gearbox- I've done that in real life and it's possible (not going to do that to my car though, LOL).
So yeah my daily driver is a 5-Speed, the clutch in GT5 after 2.08 is now more like the clutch in my car.. the shifting simulation in GT5 is screwed up though, too often a mis-shift when it should just go in gear.. but the clutch is fine.
The clutch is actually a lot better now.. The clutch, not the H-Pattern shifter. They are two separate things remember.
I don't know how anyone could say an on/off switch in the middle of travel is better than an actual progressive pedal engagement like it is now.
The problem is not the clutch, it's the shifting simulation. It's not right.. You should be able to keep foot on throttle in most cars and still go into gear. That's the main issue. Also, if you do miss a shift, it shouldn't just end up in N, that's stupid. You should just be able to kick clutch again and have it be in gear you selected.. BUT- you shouldn't miss the shift in the first place, it should go into gear unless you don't push clutch in at all or something.. even then it should go in gear if you rev-match in a car with a synchro-mesh gearbox- I've done that in real life and it's possible (not going to do that to my car though, LOL).
So yeah my daily driver is a 5-Speed, the clutch in GT5 after 2.08 is now more like the clutch in my car.. the shifting simulation in GT5 is screwed up though, too often a mis-shift when it should just go in gear.. but the clutch is fine.
