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Ardius
GTP Division 3 Driver
OldJul 09 2009, 1:03 PM
Assuming the FOTA teams do compete next year and keeping in mind drivers who have already signed contracts, what do you think the grid will look like?
My thoughts:
BrawnGP:
Jenson Button
Rubens Barrichello

RBR:
Sebastien Vettel
Mark Webber

Toyota:
Jarno Trulli
Timo Glock

Ferrari:
Kimi Raikkonen
Felipe Massa

Williams:
Nico Rosberg
Nico Hulkenburg

McLaren:
Lewis Hamilton
Heikki Kovalainen

Renault:
Fernando Alonso
Vitantonio Liuzzi

BMW Sauber:
Robert Kubica
Nick Heidfeld

STR:
Sebastien Buemi
Bruno Senna

Force India:
Adrian Sutil
Giancarlo Fisichella

USF1:
Sebastien Bourdais
Kamui Kobayashi

Campos:
Pedro de la Rosa
Lucas di Grassi

Manor:
Anthony Davidson
Takuma Sato

Very few driver changes in the current teams methinks, even Williams I'm not so sure will dump Nakajima. Bourdais had a hard time staying at STR for this year....next year I doubt he will still be there. Piquet is a very lucky man if he stays around.
The rest are guesses and I'm leaning on experienced drivers grabbing the remaining seats with a few GP2 drivers thrown in for good measure.
Last edited by Ardius; Jul 11 2009 at 2:30 PM..
 
mipuumal
GTP Addict
OldJul 09 2009, 6:05 PM
BrawnGP:
Jenson Button
Nico Rosberg

RBR:
Sebastien Vettel
Jarno Trulli

Toyota:
Robert Kubica
Timo Glock

Ferrari:
Kimi Raikkonen
Felipe Massa

Williams:
Kazuki Nakajima
Formula Two Champion

McLaren:
Lewis Hamilton
Heikki Kovalainen

Renault:
Fernando Alonso
Romain Grosjean

BMW Sauber:
Mark Webber
Sebastien Buemi

STR:
Sebastian Bourdais
Jaime Alguersuari

Force India:
Adrian Sutil
Giancarlo Fisichella

USF1:
Jacques Villeneuve
Danica Patrick

Campos:
Nick Heidfeld
Nelson Piquet

Manor:
Bruno Senna
Rubens Barrichello
 
interludes
BAM! Said the Lady ...
OldJul 09 2009, 7:34 PM
Brawn: Jenson Button, Nico Rosberg/Robert Kubica/Vitaly Petrov/Bruno Senna
Red Bull: Sebastian Vettel, Mark Webber
Toyota: Timo Glock, Jarno Trulli/Kamui Kobayashi/Kazuki Nakajima
Ferrari: Kimi Raikkonen, Felipe Massa
Williams: Nico Rosberg/Nico Hulkenberg, Kamui Kobayashi/Kazuki Nakajima
McLaren: Lewis Hamilton, Nico Rosberg
Renault: Fernando Alonso, Romain Grosjean
BMW-Sauber: Nick Heidfeld, Robert Kubica/Adrian Sutil
Toro Rosso: Sebastien Buemi, Jaime Alguersuari
Force India: Adrian Sutil, Karun Chandhok
US-F1: Robert Wickens, Rubens Barrichello
Campos: Pedro de la Rosa/Marc Gene, Vitaly Petrov/Pastor Maldonado
Manor: Heikki Kovalainen, Lucas di Grassi/Bruno Senna
 
peterjford
J. is for Jeep
OldJul 09 2009, 7:51 PM
mipuumal View Post
Toyota:
Robert Kubica
Timo Glock

BMW Sauber:
Mark Webber
Sebastien Buemi
I can't tell if you are being serious or not, but there is now way BMW would give up Kubica for Webber or Buemi. Maybe Heidfeld will go, but not both.
 
senamic
Lancia and Ducati man
OldJul 10 2009, 1:07 AM
BrawnGP:
Jenson Button
Rubens Barrichello

RBR:
Sebastien Vettel
Mark Webber

Toyota:
Jarno Trulli
Timo Glock

Ferrari:
Kimi Raikkonen
Felipe Massa

Williams:
Nico Rosberg
Nick Heidfeld

McLaren:
Lewis Hamilton
Heikki Kovalainen

Renault:
Fernando Alonso
Romain Grosjean

BMW Sauber:
Robert Kubica
Jaques Villeneuve

STR:
Sebastien Buemi
Daniel Ricciardo

Force India:
Adrian Sutil
Giancarlo Fisichella

USF1:
Sebastien Bourdais
Pedro de la Rosa

Campos:
Christijan Albers
Lucas di Grassi

Manor:
Anthony Davidson
Takuma Sato
Last edited by senamic; Jul 10 2009 at 1:13 AM..
 
interludes
BAM! Said the Lady ...
OldJul 10 2009, 2:32 AM
senamic View Post
STR:
Sebastien Buemi
Daniel Ricciardo
Ricciardo might be a part of the Red Bull Young Driver Program, but he's only in F3. And while I belive winning an F3 title is enough to qualify for a Superlicence (by default, no less), I'd say Brendon Hartley or Jamie Alguersuari will get the call-up first, while Robert Wickens and Mikhail Aleshin in Formula Two will take over their roles as test-drivers. Ricciardo might get bumped up to a Red Bull-backed Formula Two seat. After all, the FIA intends that Formula Two becomes the new proving ground for up-and-coming drivers, a halfway point between national F3/the Euroseries and Formula One.
 
senamic
Lancia and Ducati man
OldJul 10 2009, 3:50 AM
Do you race? View Post
Ricciardo might be a part of the Red Bull Young Driver Program, but he's only in F3. And while I belive winning an F3 title is enough to qualify for a Superlicence (by default, no less), I'd say Brendon Hartley or Jamie Alguersuari will get the call-up first, while Robert Wickens and Mikhail Aleshin in Formula Two will take over their roles as test-drivers. Ricciardo might get bumped up to a Red Bull-backed Formula Two seat. After all, the FIA intends that Formula Two becomes the new proving ground for up-and-coming drivers, a halfway point between national F3/the Euroseries and Formula One.
Fair point. I know that I am being hopeful for a local, but word in the Ricciardo camp that I have loose relations with is that he is being earmarked. Plus, his pace is considerable, and he is exhibiting speed and reliability on par with other, more 'experienced' drivers in the program.

Still, wishes being horses and all that!
 
PJ-FFL
PJnium
OldJul 10 2009, 4:08 AM
Bruno Senna is a definite yes, Sato might be able to squeeze back in, and Piquet can kiss his seat goodbye, unless he gets some better results.
 
Tired Tyres
Diamond Member
OldJul 10 2009, 4:35 AM
Sato and Davidson both have F1 experience. Senna has none. Experience will matter a lot with no testing allowed.
 
interludes
BAM! Said the Lady ...
OldJul 10 2009, 5:00 AM
senamic View Post
Fair point. I know that I am being hopeful for a local, but word in the Ricciardo camp that I have loose relations with is that he is being earmarked. Plus, his pace is considerable, and he is exhibiting speed and reliability on par with other, more 'experienced' drivers in the program.

Still, wishes being horses and all that!
That's why we have a tiered system: to sort the men out from the boys. There are kids who are insanely fast in F3 and the WSR, but they're nowhere come GP2. And there are some who are touted as the Next Big Thing because of their GP2 successes, but once they make the transition to Formula One, they just can't cut it. Ricciardo will gain immesurable experience making his way up the ladder rather than simply jumping from the little pond to the biggest one there is.
PJ-FFL View Post
Bruno Senna is a definite yes, Sato might be able to squeeze back in, and Piquet can kiss his seat goodbye, unless he gets some better results.
You really do need to learn to watch what you say. Senna is be no mean confirmed; everyone thought Prodrive would be a shoe-in for the 2010 grid and that look how that worked out for them. While Bruno Senna is indeed an excellent prospect for any of the teams - espeically Brawn, Campos and Manor, all of whom are in need of sponsorship - it proves nothing. Don't present your opinions as facts.
Tired Tyres View Post
Sato and Davidson both have F1 experience. Senna has none. Experience will matter a lot with no testing allowed.
Not if Senna geta paired up with someone who has experience in a Fisichella-like mentor role. Someone who can teach him how the game is played at this level and can challenge him on the circuit. I think Rubens Barrichello would be the perfect man for the job; Jenson Button has commented that Barrichello was so good at setting the car up that he re-invigorated the Honda team when he arrived in 2006 and that he taught Button a lot more than Button expected. The Brazilian press would love it.A Senna/Barrichello lineup would be excellent because Senna has the name, the fame and the youth (and hopefully the speed to go with it), whilst Barrichello has the experience and the knowledge that a new team can really anchor itself around. I could seem them at the Playboy Mansion (my name for Virgin-Manor, though I am under no illusions), because Barrichello no doubt knows Richard Branson and Branson would probably be happiest with one of the two Brawn drivers working for him.
 
Tired Tyres
Diamond Member
OldJul 10 2009, 5:21 AM
Except Rubens is at Brawn and If I were him I wouldn't leave that team for any other team.

If I was the team boss of a new team to F1 it would be Sato and Davidson that would get the drives. There is no way at all that I would put an inexperienced driver in the car.
 
interludes
BAM! Said the Lady ...
OldJul 10 2009, 5:31 AM
Tired Tyres View Post
Except Rubens is at Brawn and If I were him I wouldn't leave that team for any other team.
He may not have a choice: Brawn still don't have a major sponsor. And if they had to choosen between Button and Barrichello for next year, they'll throw everything they can spare at keeping JB. It would actually be quite ironic if the team that won the Constructors' Championship was forced to take what equated to a pay-driver (though if they win both championships, the money should come thick and fast ... Google were spotted in their camp back at Monaco and Larry Page apparently wants the Google name on a race-winning car).

Tired Tyres View Post
If I was the team boss of a new team to F1 it would be Sato and Davidson that would get the drives. There is no way at all that I would put an inexperienced driver in the car.
I don't understand the love for Sato. Aside from one pass on Alonso at Canada, he was nothing to write home about, unless you were describing someone who was consistently being beaten by his team-mate and usually a dangerous man to be near on the circuit. One of them might get a seat, but there's plenty of talent in GP2 to compliment them.
 
PJ-FFL
PJnium
OldJul 10 2009, 6:06 AM
A lot of Sato's failures were because of car failures, because rumor has it that BAR used his car for secret testing of new technology. His Super Aguri days didn't go badly. He made Super Aguri do better than Honda on a number of occasions.
 
Tired Tyres
Diamond Member
OldJul 10 2009, 6:18 AM
On the BBC coverage of Practice 1 this morning it was said that the new teams were all saying they want one experienced driver and one young charger as an ideal line up. How many experienced drivers are actually available at the moment?
 
interludes
BAM! Said the Lady ...
OldJul 10 2009, 6:57 AM
Tired Tyres View Post
On the BBC coverage of Practice 1 this morning it was said that the new teams were all saying they want one experienced driver and one young charger as an ideal line up. How many experienced drivers are actually available at the moment?
Quite a few, I should think. Firstly, there's the current crop of racing drivers, with the exceptions of Buemi, Bourdais and Piquet, who are too inexperienced or unreliable to be worth pursuring. One could make the case that while he is quick, Vettel probably wouldn't be the ideal driver to build a new team around because he doesn't have much experience. It's well within the realms of possibility that the teams may be able to tempt a current driver away his team, especially if they place the importance of leading the team on them. That's my one of my arguments for Barrichello leaving Brawn.

Then there's the ranks of test drivers who may be looking to step up to a full-time race drive for next season. I'm thinking Pedro de la Rosa, Marc Gene, Christian Klien, David Coulthard, Vitantonio Liuzzi, Anthony Davidson and Alexander Wurz. Coulthard and Wurz might be happy with retirement and not want to come back; plus, Wurz was to be principal for Team Superfund, and if a manufacturer leaves or FOTA as a whole depart, Superfund might be in. Campos have said they want an experienced Spanish driver, so I'm better on de la Rosa or Gene. Probably de la Rosa, because he has the most recent experience with a race seat.

Then there's the third group, former drivers who are now off in another series. Pantano is the only one I can think of; he's been in GP2 since leaving Jordan, and he's looking to make a Timo Glock-esque return for 2010 with Campos.

And, of course, Jacques Villeneuve is waving madly from the back row.
 
mipuumal
GTP Addict
OldJul 10 2009, 7:00 AM
peterjford View Post
I can't tell if you are being serious or not, but there is now way BMW would give up Kubica for Webber or Buemi. Maybe Heidfeld will go, but not both.
Yes I'm serious, Kubica is a competitive animal and he won't stand for BMW's current pace much longer.
 
interludes
BAM! Said the Lady ...
OldJul 10 2009, 7:04 AM
mipuumal View Post
Yes I'm serious, Kubica is a competitive animal and he won't stand for BMW's current pace much longer.
I think Martin Brundle commented that in the right machine, Kubica is at the top of the time sheets. In anything else, he's everywhere else.

He's still pretty young - and therefore fairly cheap - so I think he could be a propect for Brawn.
 
Ardius
GTP Division 3 Driver
OldJul 10 2009, 4:07 PM
Do you race? View Post
Not if Senna geta paired up with someone who has experience in a Fisichella-like mentor role. Someone who can teach him how the game is played at this level and can challenge him on the circuit. I think Rubens Barrichello would be the perfect man for the job; Jenson Button has commented that Barrichello was so good at setting the car up that he re-invigorated the Honda team when he arrived in 2006 and that he taught Button a lot more than Button expected. The Brazilian press would love it.A Senna/Barrichello lineup would be excellent because Senna has the name, the fame and the youth (and hopefully the speed to go with it), whilst Barrichello has the experience and the knowledge that a new team can really anchor itself around. I could seem them at the Playboy Mansion (my name for Virgin-Manor, though I am under no illusions), because Barrichello no doubt knows Richard Branson and Branson would probably be happiest with one of the two Brawn drivers working for him.
Which would be kind of weird too, as Ayrton essentially treated Barrichello as his apprentice back in the day.
I think Bruno has a chance, he seemed to impress the Honda/Brawn guys when he tested last year - Ross even said he may have gotten the seat had there not been such a large rule change, as they stuck with Barrichello because they needed experienced drivers to bring the car home (plus they knew they had a winner on their hands and a rookie is not a safe-bet).

I doubt Brawn will drop Rubens next year though, quite clearly he is very important in the development and setting up of the car and he still has the motivation to drive without requiring large pay. I doubt they will get into the situation of having to choose one to drop in favour of a pay-driver.

As for Kubica - I agree but where can he go? Renault? None of the current teams have weak drivers that they desperately need to replace, and how can he know whichever other team will be better than BMW next year? I can imagine him going to Williams or Renault perhaps but unlikely, another fairly large rule change next year means it would be risky, he knows his current team can get to the top when needs be, he just needs to lead them. The only reason I can think for him leaving BMW is because he seems to be at odds with the management quite a bit, at least after 2008.

The current drivers are all pretty good and are doing well at their respective teams and largely getting on with them well with the obvious exceptions. So I don't see many moving, in my opinion, McLaren, Toyota, Brawn, Williams, Ferrari, Force India and Red Bull all are pretty happy with their drivers and all the drivers are happy with their teams. Only Renault, BMW Sauber and STR have driver(s) that are fairly likely of being changed, but they are all safer keeping their current ones in my opinion except Piquet.

Heidfeld must be hot property for the new teams with that impressive finish-streak.

Edit:
In light of what was said on the BBC coverage today, I've swapped Grosjean for Liuzzi at Renault, as Liuzzi revealed he is likely to have a race seat at a current team next year.
Last edited by Ardius; Jul 11 2009 at 2:32 PM..
 
GTP_Deathwalker
Junior Member
OldJul 13 2009, 4:11 PM
BrawnGP:
Jenson Button
Rubens Baricello

RBR:
Sebastien Vettel
Mark Webber

Toyota:
Jarno Trulli
Timo Glock

Ferrari:
Fernando Alonso
Felipe Massa

Williams:
Nico Rosberg
Nico Hulkenburg

McLaren:
Lewis Hamilton
Heikki Kovalainen

Renault:
Kimi Raikkonen
Vitantonio Liuzzi

BMW Sauber:
Robert Kubica
Nick Heidfeld

STR:
Sebastien Buemi
Bruno Senna

Force India:
Adrian Sutil
Giancarlo Fisichella

USF1:
Sebastien Bourdais
Scott Speed

Campos:
Pedro de la Rosa
Lucas di Grassi

Manor:
Anthony Davidson
Adrian Vallés
Last edited by GTP_Deathwalker; Jul 14 2009 at 2:00 PM..
 
interludes
BAM! Said the Lady ...
OldJul 14 2009, 12:34 AM
GTP_Deathwalker View Post
USF1:
Sebastien Bourdais
Scott Speed
Interesting choice, but I'm reasonably certain Peter Windsor and Ken Anderson are not masochists.
 
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