Why do the "Pro's" use bumper cam?

I was quite excited when I first played Prologue - I'd never experienced a good cockpit view in a racing game and I'd heard Prologues' was one of the best. But when I started to drive in cockpit view it just felt wrong - seeing a steering wheel (a pair of hands as well) on screen when there is already one in my hands isn't that annoying, it's more the fact that a realistic view would not incorporate the wheel, or most of the dash for that matter. The odd thing is though, the general consensus seems to be that cockpit views are realistic, which I for one can not fathom.

Is it just me?

I don't think so. Sebastian Loeb, Lucas Ordonez, Kazunori Yamauchi himself, even most of the GT5 demo stands I've seen set-up are played through bumper cam.

Now I'm not saying bumper cam is realistic, but the cockpit view certaintly isn't. What I would propose is a view similar to one that can be found on Supercar Challenge. All you see is the windscreen and the very top of the dash - much more realistic. I know this doesn't give the greatest peripherals, but there is the option to "look" left/right to check for cars and if Eyetoy is implemented, the problem won't exist.

Broadens their field of view. Most people including myself have been playing with bumper cam since the original GT.

I completly agree, the inside cockpit view i think is terible, i could handle a few like that if it wasnt for the wheel. Just like you theres already one in my hand i dont need to see a fake set infront of me aswell!
Iv been playing a bit of Shift lately (dont own GT5P yet lol) and im loving using the view where you can see a little bit of the bonnet, seems more kinda real that way

When i drive my car, i see even a bit more from the cockpit than in prologue! I think it only depends on the personal seat position and for me the view in prologue is optimal! When you would like to drive the most realistic way, you have to choose the cockpit view, all the others are completley unrealistic!

What i cant understand are people who want a cockpit view without a steering wheel inside...How thoe hell should you drive without one?! Arguments are that you see two hands and two steering whells in your sight....hm, then maybe dont look at yours at home! The steering wheel has to be in the car!

I really look forward to see those thousends of cockpits, i will buy every single car just to see those lovely made interieurs

Several reasons:

- gives 2nd best track overview IMO
- big and most efficient rear view mirror
- best dials visability
- for me best speed thrill as well

Love the interior view as eye candy, but too much distraction and limited visibility of track and what's going on around you. The rooftop cam really gives the best track overview, but to me the digital gauges are useless, and as I am using a beamer too far off screen center as well

Give me 1:1 steering wheel animation, with no delay and I'll consider it

+1 Ren831 👍

And in cockpit view the seat should be adjustable, just like rFactor or other Pc sims...

ron86

When i drive my car, i see even a bit more from the cockpit than in prologue! I think it only depends on the personal seat position and for me the view in prologue is optimal!

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Here's a video from Forza that explains that.


Hope GT5 will include that, but yeah, I don't use bumper cam. I prefer the roof cam as I feel more comfortable seeing where I'm going. If GT5p's cockpit view was like that, I'd be on cockpit view most of the time!

Whenever you're driving in real life you're not looking at the steering wheel in your hands and then at a second one further away with another pair of hands that replicates your movements.

In-car view should be adjustable so you see the dashboard and the hood only, and no steering wheel/hands. Like this:


(Especially if your wheel has 900° rotation and the one on the screen only 200°, but I still hope that will be fixed)

For the people who play GT then it was the most realistic view in 1, 2, 3 and 4 so they are use to racing like that I guess. As for actual racing drivers using it, well I guess if you can get a better view then why not take it, you can't change things like that in real life so you have to take advantage of it in a game.

I`m not a pro, just a good sim player, and i use the cockpit view, for somo people, cockpit view is terrible, for me, is an amazing view

I dont know any driver who sits on the bumper and drives.
Plus when driving my car in life and in game my concentration is on the road and i can see the dash in my peripheral vision. Iv not noticed my own hands whilst playing GT5.

Sure the field of vision is greater in real life compared to GT so the bumper cam view MAY be better.

I drove with the bumper cam from GT3 onwards. Chase cam on 1 +2. In GT5/prologue i used the cockpit cam.
Gives the game more atmosphere and a human factor that GT has always missed.

BUT it feels better with the bumper cam and i probably can hot lap a few 10ths better with it.

Its whatever YOUR most comfortable with really. Hell if they even loosen up the chase view like in 1,2 & 3 i will use that sometimes. (for eye candy).

Until recently I used bumper cam as I find it to be the fastest. However, more recently I have changed to in car cam because I feel that it gives a better sense of realism - maybe not quite as fast but I'm playing the game for the greatest enjoyment so I think I'll stay with the in car cam.

I tend to go a bit faster in-car because I can feel what the rear of the cars' doing so I correct less but obviously with the bumper cam the dials give a great indicator as to where the front wheels are so you can use all the track to the millimeter. Also if you've got a nice big monitor the in-car view instantly gives you less track viewing scope and kind of spoils that.
In a real car you move your head so the in-car GT view is not representative anyway. I will definitely use the in-car view though when they develop the head motion systems with the appropriately sized and orientated displays to go with it.

I always use cockpit in forza unless it's a very restricted veiw ( which happens in some cars ). I find having the camera forward of the steering wheels gives me a sensation of driving a forklift ie the wheels used for turning are behind you. If that makes sense.

The bumper cam gives you the best sense of immersion.

An in-cockpit view is never going to be realistic for single-monitor users... you need at least 180 degrees of forward view to make it work. This is simply because we don't drive cars in real life while looking through a letterbox plastered over our heads...

Watching through bumper cam on a 40" screen a few feet away puts you right where you'd be in relation to what you're seeing in real life. Yes... you can see a bit more of the road under you, but that advantage is partially neutered by the fact that you're still looking through a letterbox.

I always found the bumper view a bit of a cheat, because it gives a perfect representation of every milimeter in the road, and this is not how drivers see the road in real life. I understand and respect why competitive players use it, but for me GT is about a balance between competition and car experience.
In-car view is the way to go for me.
Because PD has put such a big effort in modeling all the dashboards, an additional effort should be made to give to the player maximum gratification and sense of immersion while using this view. No hud, ability to specify position of the camera and fov, but also more information based on car structure movements (roof, dashboard, ...).
Implementing Eyetoy could also drastically improve this view, as you could be allowed a bigger, even if shallower, fov. Sort of a slight zoom compared to today's representation. Moving your head you would easily and quickly check surroundings.
I agree with mickstanz NFS Shift in-car view is very well implemented. Unfortunately when front windshield is damaged, it gets too obstrusive and becomes almost unusable.

they need to implement a look to apex feature for the in car view.

niky

An in-cockpit view is never going to be realistic for single-monitor users... you need at least 180 degrees of forward view to make it work. This is simply because we don't drive cars in real life while looking through a letterbox plastered over our heads...

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This. When using incar view, I always feel like I'm looking through a tank slit, because the interior takes up 50-60% of the screen. In real life, one can see much more than in the incar view in game.

Bumper cam feels faster to me because the viewpoint is closer to the road and gives a greater sensation of speed.

I am also partial to good bonnet (hood) cams, where it doesn't obscure too much of the road but you can see it moving around with the suspension.

The roof cam in GT4 is too high, I don't like it.

I use interior view when I'm just mucking about... but if Im online and I need to put down fast times... Bumper View for the win... No matter what I try Im ALWAYS faster with bumper view...

Ren831

Several reasons:

- gives 2nd best track overview IMO
- big and most efficient rear view mirror
- best dials visability
- for me best speed thrill as well

Love the interior view as eye candy, but too much distraction and limited visibility of track and what's going on around you. The rooftop cam really gives the best track overview, but to me the digital gauges are useless, and as I am using a beamer too far off screen center as well

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Yep, spot-on, agree with all of those.

As nice as the interiors may look, they are way too limiting in terms of visibility due to the fixed camera. For me, roof cam is too high. Personally, I prefer hood cam if it is available as that gives a view that is at roughly the correct height, and where I sit in front of my TV, it's the most accurate in terms of where I would be sat in the car relative to the camera.

It's interesting to read about how people perceive "enjoyment". Don't get me wrong, I can see how people get more enjoyment out of the more "realistic" (read, pretty), cockpit view. However, this seems to be the case even at the expense of not going as fast. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the whole point of a racing game was to drive as fast as you can, not drool over graphics that block most of your view and make it look like you are staring out of a tank!

Anyway, each unto their own, but while I'm still using one single screen, I'll never use the interior view for when I'm properly racing. That is unless they implement a good dynamic camera. The only time I'll use the interior view is when friends pop over and they want to see it, or I'm just messing around or curious as to what each one looks like.

This topic has already been discussed in another thread and the whole real versus unreal arguments also and are frankly irrelevant, as it's mostly just personal preference.
If you use a wheel it might be strange to have another in front of you and an option like the one in Dirt whereby 2 cockpit views are accessible ( one with and one closer to the front screen without wheel ) could solve this.
As a DS3 controller user i don't have any problem with the steering wheel, i just love cockpit/interior view and it's the only view i use, even if i would lose some seconds on each lap ( which i don't ).
It's the most immersive and enjoyable experience which GT has to offer regarding viewpoints in my opinion and can't wait to drive all those 950 cars in GT5 from behind the dashboard ( bumper cam, etc. make each car completely anonymous and the experience boring, so i wouldn't use it even if it made me faster, it's about fun and for me cockpit view is the most fun ).

I'm just as quick with both.

Actually having driven a race prepped car with banner halfway down the window and seat pretty much on the floor of the car. You can't really see **** out the front anyway.

I love it.

analog

This topic has already been discussed in another thread and the whole real versus unreal arguments also and are frankly irrelevant, as it's mostly just personal preference.

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So why are you still here waffling on?

analog

If you use a wheel it might be strange to have another in front of you and an option like the one in Dirt whereby 2 cockpit views are accessible ( one with and one closer to the front screen without wheel ) could solve this.

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Maybe, maybe not. In my experience of using a wheel with cockpit view...not. Cockpit view has far more failings that that, such as lack of visibility.

analog

As a DS3 controller user i don't have any problem with the steering wheel, i just love cockpit/interior view and it's the only view i use, even if i would lose some seconds on each lap (which i don't).

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Uhuh...

analog

It's the most immersive and enjoyable experience which GT has to offer regarding viewpoints in my opinion and can't wait to drive all those 950 cars in GT5 from behind the dashboard ( bumper cam, etc. make each car completely anonymous and the experience boring, so i wouldn't use it even if it made me faster, it's about fun and for me cockpit view is the most fun ).

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Like I said earlier, if you think it's all totally irrelevant, why am I still here responding to your verbiage?

Maybe, maybe not. In my experience of using a wheel with cockpit view...not. Cockpit view has far more failings that that, such as lack of visibility.

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Why do you need to see the road underneath you? You should already know whats underneath you and be looking ahead of the car in the direction you want to place the car. This is where a look to apex, or function where there head turns left/right with the steering wheel would be good as this is how you look around naturally when you are driving on the track.

TokyoDrift

It's interesting to read about how people perceive "enjoyment". Don't get me wrong, I can see how people get more enjoyment out of the more "realistic" (read, pretty), cockpit view. However, this seems to be the case even at the expense of not going as fast. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the whole point of a racing game was to drive as fast as you can, not drool over graphics that block most of your view and make it look like you are staring out of a tank!

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The whole point of a racing game is not only driving as fast as you can, it's also about enjoyment or the experience it provides whilst driving as fast as you can, besides GT isn't just a racing game only.
I actually prefer cockpit view not only because of its gorgeous graphics or its perfect modelling or even knowing which car i'm actually driving but also because i get a better sense of the cars overal dimensions and the loss of view everyone seems to complain about just takes getting used to, it's actually not that much and worth the "sacrifice".
Bumpercam or Hoodcam always leave me feeling completely detached, like i'm driving an extremely fast first person skate board.

TokyoDrift

So why are you still here waffling on?

Like I said earlier, if you think it's all totally irrelevant, why am I still here responding to your verbiage?

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I just pointed out a similar thread already exists, didn't mean to point out it was therefor a topic not worth debating.
The whole real versus unreal debate is irrelevant ( as credible arguments could be made for either one of them but the main thing is which reality you prefer ), as it's mainly about which experience you choose, it's not irrelevant pointing out why you prefer a certain viewpoint, having different priorities and making other choices.
Don't get your sudden hostility either, just expressing an opinion which obviously isn't shared by you.

Sorry for the double post.

Bumper view to me is the same type of view you have when youre racing a go-kart... The field of view is better imo opinion and I find it the other view (interior) distracting... I mean im not going to look at dials and how nice the buttons on the dash look when Im trying to put in fast laps... Bumper view also lets me get as close as possible to the person in front of me so I can be on his bumper a bit without touching... With interior view I always mis-judge this... could be I need more practice, but I still prefer bumper view to the interior view. I agree when people say this is all down to personal preference, just go with whatever you feel most comfortable with.

Why are people who use bumper cam "pros"? I use interior veiw mostly so does that make me an amateur?