3D PS3 Titles Will Suffer Visual Downgrade, GT5 a Casualty?

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Robin

Robin

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I've been reading the news that old and new PS3 games which will have 3D retrofitted or enabled will suffer a visual downgrade due to the hardware just not able to output all that information, especially at full HD.

It has already been confirmed that Wipeout HD will be dropped from 1080p to 720p because the PS3 in essence will be rendering 2 images and also the frame rate will drop to 30!

Motorstorm Pacific Rift will also be adapted and apparently its going to be even worse with 3D because the resolution will be to drop to below HD levels to get it to work (it already only barely managing 720p @ 30FPS).

All this make we wonder, I would hate GT to have to be visually downgraded for such a feature. After all the work that PD have put in to make everything work stunningly at 60FPS @ 1080p its seems crazy to have to drop the resolution or maybe even drop the graphics down to multiplayer levels of quality (you know what I mean).

Basically all these "new" games which are going to come out in 3D are going to be sending the console back 3 years in terms of visual ability, I know that visuals aren’t everything but it seems such a waste for 3D which very few people have yet or will ever even use.

I just hope it can be turned off and allow the game to run in all its 2D glory, not coded to be at a level 3D can work at even if you dont use it.

Robin.
 
I just hope it can be turned off and allow the game to run in all its 2D glory.
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m:tup:

I'd rather no 3D at all thanks :grumpy:

As posted in another thread; if you want 3D look out the window!
:banghead::banghead:🤬
 
Robin.
I just hope it can be turned off and allow the game to run in all its 2D glory, not coded to be at a level 3D can work at even if you dont use it.
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This. In most cases the 2D game will be converted into 3D, and will require a downgrade in graphics for the hardware to handle it (Providing they utilised enough of the hardware to make that a necessity). This I believe is the case for GT5, as 3D came along so late into the development cycle. We will see a downgrade of some sort, I think 60fps @ 720p as opposed to 1080p isn't too much to ask.

In the future we may see games designed for 3D, with no graphical improvements for the 2D version, which will inevitably, make the graphics worse than if it was designed specifically for 2D.
 
Robin

If anything we know that the demands of 3D will require programmers to really push the hardware.

Wipeout /Motorstorm were not develped with 3D in mind.
GT5 could be the first game to really show the true sense of what is possible in 3D.

I said this elsewhere today but I dont see GT5 in 3D being say 30fps and 2D 60fps.
It has too many issues with gameplay and particulary online. GT5P actually had 2xAA in 1080p and 4xAA in 720p. So PD seem to ensure the game looks as well possible no matter what resolution you are playing.

Chances are 720p or something below 720p will be the native resolution used for 3D.
It will likely have less AA as well.

One issue that hasnt been confirmed and because of the demands of 720p 3D is that high. Personally I feel they may of decided to reduce the car count from 16 per race to less.
Maybe 8. I hope this isnt the case but it would be one way to code the game to run well in 3D and allow the game to be 60fps then matching the 2D version. The only benifit of this would be that if PD achieve 3D 720p then the 2D version could likely get an improvement in visual quality being within similar demands to become full HD 1920x1080 and not just 1280x1080.

So far the 3D footage ive seen has been with 8 cars on track as well but that confirms nothing.
However PD did sacrafice gameplay in PSP maintaining 60fps with 4 cars rather than 30 fps and 6 or 8 cars so maybe it shouldnt be dismissed as impossible.
Never mind visuals has GT5 been sacraficed in gameplay for the benifit of 3D?
Now theirs a topic for Jordan to cover.
 
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Anyone would be silly to worry about it. The only ones who this affects are the ones who are playing in 3D, and it should not be a surprise to them if they have any knowledge of PC gaming....

One of the things they've mentioned is a no-brainer to downgrade is the depth of field effect. It takes up a lot of resources and is only necessary for establishing depth in 2D mode.
 
Aren't they talking about old releases being retro-fitted? It's highly unlikely that any AAA 3D games in the future won't be designed with 3D in mind.
 
chepe371
Yup, 3d is the new Virtual Boy, a month after release there will be recalls and suits for Seizures and Eye problems.
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As has so often been pointed out around here there's nothing new about stereoscopy so any problems will already be known about and the manufacturers will have done plenty of testing. There will probably be new legislation and new warnings on products concerning known problems.
 
chepe371
Yup, 3d is the new Virtual Boy, a month after release there will be recalls and suits for Seizures and Eye problems.
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No their wont as you will have to agree to terms in the firmware update.
Also likely before playing "warning message" will be shown.

They will ensure they keep themselves covered.
 
Jordan
That's a good idea. According to Chris Norden in this CES 2010 interview, GT5 is running in 1080p @ 120Hz in 3D.
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If that ends up being the case, I'd like to know why they wasted all that extra horsepower in the standard 2D mode that has been under development all these years. That is unless they run it in 1080p but with a lower LOD.
 
hardvibes
Maybe, but there was no GT5 in 3D at CES2010, not even in the last interview with Taku Imasaki.
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GT5 was shown running in 3D at CES 2010. He's standing in front of the demo in the video I posted above.
 
Jordan hi, yeah Ive seen that before.
I do think if 2D 3D have to offer the same playability experience then a trade of could well be car numbers on track for both 2D 3D at the cost of 3D performance.
Or that simply 3D resolution has to go below 720p native.

The guy in that video and some other CES videos are a bit inaccurate.
They state the game will be in 1080p 120HZ 3D. So I dont think their PR is acutally accurate.
Yes the TV may display 3D and display 1080p but it will be upscaled.

Gran Turismo 5: Prologue = 1080p mode is 1280x1080 (2xAA) in-game while the garage/pit/showrooms are 1920x1080 with no AA. 720p mode is 1280x720 (4xAA)
Chances are 3D will dip below 720p and reduce to 2X AA
 
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The way I see it. The 3D and GT5 will be 720p native, but they mention UPSCALED will look even better and smoother then 2D 1080p.

Also There will be either some kind of OPTIONS in game menus. 3D on and off. With On game will change to 720P (upscale to 1080p) and with 3D off, AKA 2D, you will have Native 1080P. simple as that. Just like PC game settings, you can change resolution at the options menu, so why not in GT5.
 
Mr Latte
No their wont as you will have to agree to terms in the firmware update.
Also likely before playing "warning message" will be shown.

They will ensure they keep themselves covered.
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Never underestimate the capacity of a company to place profit about all health and medical considerations.

Warning messages and terms and conditions in the use of a system will not prevent law suites.
 
NoxNoctis Umbra
The way I see it. The 3D and GT5 will be 720p native, but they mention UPSCALED will look even better and smoother then 2D 1080p.

Also There will be either some kind of OPTIONS in game menus. 3D on and off. With On game will change to 720P (upscale to 1080p) and with 3D off, AKA 2D, you will have Native 1080P. simple as that. Just like PC game settings, you can change resolution at the options menu, so why not in GT5.
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Why not well as PS3 is a fixed platform and you have to ensure the same gaming experience is going to apply to 2D/3D and even SD users.

1280x720 Left Eye 1280x720 Right Eye = 1843200 pixels
Effectively 2X 720p is not simple at all and is much higher in demands than 2D 1080P 60HZ is.

Best to assume:
GT5P 2D 1080 = 1280x1080 = 138240 Pixels
If the game happily runs along with 138240 pixels then the programmers need to get 3D to work within that limit.

In doing so they would have to go with a native resolution of approx 960x704 per eye = 675840 x 2 (left & right eyes) = 1351680. Thats close to the 1080 2D requirements.
Yet if you do some math will notice its more than 2x the pixels in games like MW2 so its a pretty big achievement.

Previous games to run at this res but in 2D didnt look that bad anyways.
Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction = 960x704 (2xAA, AA samples used to reconstruct 720p)
Ratchet & Clank: A Crank in Time = 960x704 (2xAA, AA samples used to reconstruct 720p)

This is only an example but many other games use below 720p....
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare = 1024x600 (2xAA)
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 = 1024x600 (2xAA)
Call of Duty: World at War = 1024x600 (2x AA)
 
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Tired Tyres
Never underestimate the capacity of a company to place profit about all health and medical considerations.

Warning messages and terms and conditions in the use of a system will not prevent law suites.
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They may not prevent them but the people wont have a leg to stand on then.
They are cautioning people so "at your own risk" implies.

Your from York but sounding like an American, lol.
 
Jordan
GT5 was shown running in 3D at CES 2010. He's standing in front of the demo in the video I posted above.
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I don't know Jordan....do you think this is 3D?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09PjV3MYkz8
immagine8o.png

immagine9a.png
 
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The blurred image differs and depends on the depth of the 3D effect on the screen at any given time.

Mind you it might fix GTs terrible jaggies in shadows with all that blur
 
BlacqueJacques
I did not watch Avatar in 3D, so did not get sick!
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You can go watch 3D no problems. Wear the glasses and close one eye that way you automatically get 2D with the glasses on. Some people try removing the glasses automatically to see the difference in 2D/3D but then end up with the mushy image.
 
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Mr Latte
Why not well as PS3 is a fixed platform and you have to ensure the same gaming experience is going to apply to 2D/3D and even SD users.

1280x720 Left Eye 1280x720 Right Eye = 1843200 pixels
Effectively 2X 720p is not simple at all and is much higher in demands than 2D 1080P 60HZ is.

Best to assume:
GT5P 2D 1080 = 1280x1080 = 138240 Pixels
If the game happily runs along with 138240 pixels then the programmers need to get 3D to work within that limit.

In doing so they would have to go with a native resolution of approx 960x704 per eye = 675840 x 2 (left & right eyes) = 1351680. Thats close to the 1080 2D requirements.
Yet if you do some math will notice its more than 2x the pixels in games like MW2 so its a pretty big achievement.

Previous games to run at this res but in 2D didnt look that bad anyways.
Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction = 960x704 (2xAA, AA samples used to reconstruct 720p)
Ratchet & Clank: A Crank in Time = 960x704 (2xAA, AA samples used to reconstruct 720p)

This is only an example but many other games use below 720p....
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare = 1024x600 (2xAA)
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 = 1024x600 (2xAA)
Call of Duty: World at War = 1024x600 (2x AA)
Click to expand...

Surely with 3D Sony must accomodate the need for varying resolutions whilt ingame, aswell as between the game and the XMB (When I enter a game that only runs 720p, it changes the resolution. It wouldn't be too hard to do that ingame would it? Kind of like changing from 50hz to 60hz on some old PS2 games)
 
Tired Tyres
Never underestimate the capacity of a company to place profit about all health and medical considerations.

Warning messages and terms and conditions in the use of a system will not prevent law suites.
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^^This. Plus in my country such terms are unlawful by definition. (Won't stop Sony to put them in place tho.)

Vincent Viceroy
It's highly unlikely that any AAA 3D games in the future won't be designed with 3D in mind.
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That's, if I understand it correctly, what the OP is concerned about, i.e. 3D games will be downgraded from start = 2D quality won't be as good as it possibly could. In short 3D = fail. ;)
 
Seismica
Surely with 3D Sony must accomodate the need for varying resolutions whilt ingame, aswell as between the game and the XMB (When I enter a game that only runs 720p, it changes the resolution. It wouldn't be too hard to do that ingame would it? Kind of like changing from 50hz to 60hz on some old PS2 games)
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Changing resolution isnt the problem.
Its how do you get a PS3 to power 2x 720p images with a refresh thats double the speed.

Look at it like having a 2D 720p mode with 120fps (120HZ)
Or being able to run a 2 player game instead of split screen on two tellys powered by one PS3.

Effectvely thats what the 3D mode has to achieve in raw performance terms.
 

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