Shadows / Pixelation Gone!

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ok, so with the spec 2.0 update i was wondering if there was a stealth fix on the biggest issues graphically, the shadowing around the cars particularly the particle effects from snow and water.

Now, ive done a few track races on full rain and snow just now and i think they've re-coded how the effects work. im not seeing ANY of those old issues graphically anymore.

If im wrong and im blind let me know but im sure as I sit here its finally sorted.

 
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I did Suzuka in the rain just now and saw the same jaggedy shadows when the car is projected against the water spray.
 
yep i just saw it. what i had turned off was water on the track. was that something new implemented? dont remember it being in there. either way that gets rid of the pixelation by simply removing that effect completely.
 
impossible....kaz say it was a problem with the ps3 not having enough ram, thus mean it's hardware issue. i doubt it's going, unless you increased the ram on the ps3
 
impossible....kaz say it was a problem with the ps3 not having enough ram, thus mean it's hardware issue. i doubt it's going, unless you increased the ram on the ps3

What you do is you change the water or snow or whatever on track to a lower value. i have mine set to 20%. so you still get the effect of a wet track BUT the spray isnt going so high so it doesnt interfere with the actual car model. it looks FANTASTIC now.
 
All I know, is that on a sunny day at the track, the shadows your car cast on the ground are no longer jaggie, they are really smooth and it stood out to me as soon as I started my first race. But as I said in the other thread, not ALL shadows have been smoothed out like when a shadow is cast onto your car's paint. It's hard to point out in words, but I find the difference imediately noticable. SOMEthing was done with some of the shadows.
 
The issue with particles most likely won't ever be fixed in GT5.

In layman's terms... The same issue was also present on GT5 Prologue (for puffs of tyre smoke). The main difference being that:-

* In GT5, we have much more 'rain' / water spray / dirt / snow than there is tyre smoke in GT5P - this means having much larger particle buffers (or scaling them up before applying them) as there is more space to fill.

* The particle buffer in GT5P may be at a higher resolution than in GT5 (i.e. more RAM was available for this task). In GT4, the overall screen resolution was smaller, thus jagged effects were reduced relative to the main display buffer.
- Higher rez buffer means more "steps" where it appears jaggy (depending on buffer resolution compared to actual game buffer resolution 1024x1080), but equally it is more to draw which may result in more tearing / frame drops.

- The outline around the car (sometimes overlays the car) is necessary to save from rendering particles behind the car = less pixels to draw. The more pixels you draw the more chance you have of missing your 1/60th of a second to draw in = tearing and frame drops. Net side effect is that you also don't see particles rendered through car windows.



Possible ways to work around this? Could be worth PD's time to try / test...

(1) Use multiple particle buffers to draw 'puffs of particles' as opposed to 1 large particle buffer / effect. 'Middle' tiles could be solid / filled and may save time being separately plotted 'as particles' (depends how the effect is generated in the first place). Allocate SPE time to drawing tiled buffers around the cars in the scene. The particle effects in game would end up looking rather different to how they do now (could look better / worse). Possible issues: (a) Time to tile & repeat draw 'n' buffers may take longer than the existing effect resulting in more tearing / frame drops. (b) Effect may not look as good as current. (c) Effect of rear lights / headlights on particles may be spoiled (e.g. square blocks of red / yellow light).

(2) Drop "inconsequential" features like 'head tracking', '4xMSAA', (anything else you can think of - suggestions!?) - in favour of freeing CPU + RAM and having a higher resolution particle buffer. Possible issues: (a) Time to fill / draw higher resolution buffers may mean more 'pixel drawing' resulting in more tearing / frame drops. (b) Game may be worse (or look worse) depending on what is dropped. (c) I don't think Kazunori Yamauchi will go with the idea of dropping features.

(3) Modify the particle effects into alternating rasters, effectively the same interlacing effect used for ghost vehicles (i.e. drawing every other line) to reduce the amount of drawing that takes place. Jaggies may then only effectively appear to be only 'half as jaggy'. Issues: (a) Weather effects may look worse - or indeed may look better - dirt / spray / etc would appear more "transparent" as a side effect - though still quite clearly rastered. (b) Might save some draw time (fewer dropped frames in weather intensive scenes). I'd estimate this would be the fastest and easiest change to implement / test.

Can't think of anything else off the top of my head. It's not an easy problem to solve nor workaround.


Here's a nice screenshot just to remind us of the problem in all of it's glory...
Dodgy_Alpha2.jpg.jpg


So maybe if the particle alpha effect was only on alternating lines (i.e. smoke, etc were half transparent / half present) the smoke / dirt / spray might still look OK - but halving the blocky / jaggy effect may look better overall. Only be able to say after actually trying it out...
 
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What you do is you change the water or snow or whatever on track to a lower value. i have mine set to 20%. so you still get the effect of a wet track BUT the spray isnt going so high so it doesnt interfere with the actual car model. it looks FANTASTIC now.

All you've done is change the level of surface water which is not the same as them fixing the aliasing. Less surface water, less spray. It works, according to you anyway (since I've not had chance to try :(), but it's not the same as it being fixed because now you can't drive in full wet tracks or with changeable weather unless you want to see the aliasing creep back in as the rain builds up. I have heard people say they've improved it slightly though, so it'll be interesting to see some new screens, but someone else suggested this is a placebo effect based on the time of day you drive in (etc) and that doesn't sound like an unreasonable explanation either. I can live with it personally, even though I think PD are completely insane with leaving it in like that when they could have gone the less is more route.
 
There some improvement- not removing the effects entirely but reducing the jittery and pixellated shadows. If you watch the replay at Daytona Road Course (I don't do Speedways) prior to the 2.0 update, you'd find the dynamic shadows off the cars (and onto the pavement) are both pixellated but also chunky and broken-up.

With the 2.0 update, it's still pixellated but the shadows hold together much better (and appear shadowy and less Lego-like). Enough so that I'll no longer avoid using the track.
 
I haven't played 2.0 yet but fixed time track shadows have always been better. Tuskuba shadows were great.

We know that :)

Guys can you just take F2007 on HSR (no weather) and looks what's happening (or compare it to GT5P)? F2007 has worst shadows.
 
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