Observations of a G27 nooB from a DFP...

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by smskeeter23, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. smskeeter23

    Premium
    United States Port Washington
    PSN:GTP_skeeter23

    Coming from a dual force pro... the G27 has completely decimated my lap times, completely changed my braking, and basically frustrated me to no end... But...

    It has however made my driving line so much more concise and skid recovery is a joy now. Add in the enhanced "realism" of play and I love it... But again...

    A few differences that I've noticed...

    1. You turn WAY more than a DFP. Even though its still (920° I think, correct me if I'm wrong) you simply must turn the wheel further than before to get through the turns. It seems most pronounced with group C, F1 and X2010-X2011 where you wouldn't expect to cross arms IRL except for really tight quarters. However I think street cars seem more accurate now, plainly unresponsive LOL.

    2. H-GATE SHIFTING LAG! The timing of the clutch/shift/clutch is truly horrid on an epic scale. You have to go S-L-O-W... not like my real life BWT-5 where I can bang gears with all day at the speed of light. Which also doesn't seem to allow for partial throttle shifts like IRL. IDK if this problem exists in rfactor or iracing but it most certainly is an issue in GT5. Moreover, if you do miss a shift heaven help you getting it back into gear in any kind of hurry. I have noticed what "may" be a glitch though, don't touch the clutch pedal at all and you can bang the H like a clutchless transmission. And often at full throttle you don't even get the little red bar in the throttle indicator between gears.

    3. At times the FFC seems to not even be there. Its so damn smooth that you swear there isn't any compared to the in your face punch you in the palms rudeness of a DFP. I kind of miss that :-(

    4. I understand that dip switches like the ones used for the paddles usually have a loud "click" sound to them, but for the $ you pay they could have used higher end switches with a little less click ;-) tO-mato / tom-Ato...

    5. Throttle throw... Why do we have to have it so short compared to the DFP? The range of throw on the DFP is probably another 10° than this thing. Its very tight. If you didn't drive with your toes for the gas before you will now. Luckily, this hasn't been hard to get used too, so far.

    I might have more... But I haven't had it long. I will get used to it and return to good laps, but even now it is great fun.

    There will be haters and appreciators here I know but thought I would share my experience of conversion.

    Even through the learning pains I know already it was money well spent. For what its worth ;-)
  2. Those are micro switches not dip switches. Some micro switches don't click but most do click. This has nothing to do with how high end they are.
  3. neema_t

    Premium
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    PSN:neema_t

    To be honest I think a few of your points are GT5's fault, not the wheel's. The feedback is certainly much more forceful in rFactor than the DFP's, the shifter is a lot more responsive, you can flatshift if you want (not generally a good idea), it won't lock you in neutral if you didn't have the clutch dipped when the gear was engaged and so on.

    I agree about the paddles, I mean I don't mind the click but some more expensive switches would've been nice, a couple of times I've double-shifted because of a sort of hesitation right on the activation point, it would have been nice if the paddles have to be released more from their activation point before they can be activated again.

    The way the H-shifter behaves varies from game to game, some need you to dip the clutch before taking it out of gear, some need the clutch dipped before the gear change is complete (like GT5), some will let you flatshift... It really varies. GT5's delay is unique, I'm pretty sure of that, as is the whole thing about not needing the clutch unless you press the clutch, which I find a little bizarre.

    The accelerator travel doesn't bother me but is completely subjective, I have the pedals placed right at the limit where I'd be stretching to push them if they were any further away, I don't know about you though. I also hadn't noticed having to turn the wheel more, probably because it's not uncomfortable for me so I guess I wouldn't pick up on it; maybe that's something to do with the bigger wheel?

    Not to dismiss your findings or anything because they do highlight some peculiarities within GT5, but give rFactor, Race 07 or another proper PC sim a try with it (or both, if you still have the DFP) and see what you think then.
  4. Gdog96

    United Kingdom England

    About the H shifting, I can do it fast, it just takes practice.
  5. MADSimRacer

    Premium
    PSN:royal_mars

    I don't use the clutch pedal in GT5, just bang the stick.
  6. smskeeter23

    Premium
    United States Port Washington
    PSN:GTP_skeeter23

    Wow reading this back this morning it seems like a but more of a rant then I was going for! Oops :-(

    ibuycheap- you are right, they are microswitches, not dip switches, wrong term on my part.

    neema_t- I believe you are right that mostly I found problems with the software rather than hardware. I knew about clutch issues going in from reading other posts but apparently found the need to complain anyway, perhaps one day pd will fix it o_O. I do plan on trying out rFactor (came with the wheel) and iracing as soon as I can get my video card up to snuff. Not being a gamer of any type I never had a need for more than the onboard graphics could support on my main CPU.

    I really don't think the wheel is any bigger on the G27 at all, however after I get a chilicoke adapter it will be LOL. I know that's going to make it worse (or better depending on personal preference). I am worried about how much worse the FFB will be then though. Honestly I expect to be much more untreated in rFactor or iracing in the end if pd doesn't do something. (Man I'm starting to sound like everyone else here... DLC, spec 3, fix this, fix that, Kaz sucks, blah blah blah)

    Like I said before, I really do love this wheel even though there are some quirks to get through and not even big ones at that. Kinda like changing from a view you always use to a new one, everything feels different.

    Enough of my rambling already lol.
  7. Gdog96

    United Kingdom England

    Everyone is always going to find things that they don't like about new products, and this is what forums are for, discussing them, we know (well I do, I'm sure everyone else does too) that you weren't having a rant. :)
  8. smskeeter23

    Premium
    United States Port Washington
    PSN:GTP_skeeter23

    Looking back on this now I think I'm starting to adjust fairly well. It definitely changes your driving style but heel/toe is a real joy and great fun. I can see now where in the long run this is going to help me a lot :-)
  9. Gdog96

    United Kingdom England

    Yup, practice really does make perfect.
  10. Uwontprevail

    United States Texas
    PSN:Uwontprevail

    I have never played gt5 before, and just got the game and the g27, hopefully being a virgin to racing sims, i wont have too many problems.

    I have played nfs games on my contoller since hot pursuit 1, but i have grown more into playing sims like the GT games.

    I really hope the g27 doesn't dissapoint, i was really pumped up about the wheel and gt5, and then i read this post.
  11. Gdog96

    United Kingdom England

    At first it will seem pretty foreign and strange, but you will learn how to work with the force feedback, and it will begin to feel WAY better than a controller. Also, don't be afraid to fight the wheel, you are meant to. If it does break (extremely rare, like literally you would have to be stupidly rough with it) Logitech's warranty is great and will give you a new one I would think. I think the biggest mistake new wheel users make is not persevering with the wheel and selling it or going back to a controller, its a mistake in my opinion.

    Overall once you get used to it you will love it I'm sure. :)
  12. Fobia

    Serbia Belgrade
    PSN:GTP_twitchy

    G27 beeing a 27" wheel requires more turning than a DFP, even though they're both 900º.
    I agree that pedals are just awful, the travel is just funny on those things and don't get me started on the spacing and resistance.
    About the ffb and clutch - it's GT5's problem, some say that DFGT has much better ffb than G27 mainly because G27 is developed as a PC wheel, whereas DFGT is a PS3 wheel.

    But you can't complain, G27 is a mid-range wheel after all, so don't expect miracles.
  13. smskeeter23

    Premium
    United States Port Washington
    PSN:GTP_skeeter23

    Idk... The wheel on mine is the exact same size as my dfp is, I think maybe the travel is just more accurate on this one, idk.

    And mainly I think the ffb seems so different because its smoother now. I kinda miss the way the dfp would violently hit you though LOL.

    I've been working on a custom built right for awhile in anticipation of this so pedal spacing wont be an issue when I invert and hard mount those. Tension should get much better after a clutch, gas, and brake spring mod.

    Either way, I think I might have jumped the gun a bit on a few things in the OP.

    I definitely wont be turning back from it ;-)
  14. smskeeter23

    Premium
    United States Port Washington
    PSN:GTP_skeeter23

    Don't let my comments worry you, it will not dissapoint. There will possibly be a sharp learning curve for you though having never used a wheel. Take it slow at first and get used to it. And by that I mean learn to get around the track without sliding off in every turn ;-) its frustrating as hell at first but better than anything when you figure it out. I hope to one day :p

    The biggest thing you need to remember here though is that this IS a sim, NOT an action racer like NFS. If you try to drive GT5 like NFS you're going to be quite bummed. You need to actually use real driving and racing techniques with this rather than going full out into a corner and slamming the brakes at the last second and expect to win races.

    Just remember its very different and stick to it.
  15. Uwontprevail

    United States Texas
    PSN:Uwontprevail

    I know the basics of track racing, but i don't know how realistic this wheel will be.

    thanks for replying to my post, i feel reassured with my purchase now, and i'm really looking forward to the challenging aspect of sim racing.

    Even spinning out and slowly learning how to drive properly will be fun.


    Should i start with ABS on, and have steering and braking assists off, or should i dive right in and have everything turned off?

    I mean the starting cars will not be so powerful that i will spin out ever turn right?
  16. Gdog96

    United Kingdom England

    It just depends how you feel, I would start with some assists on, especially abs.
  17. smskeeter23

    Premium
    United States Port Washington
    PSN:GTP_skeeter23

    I think this is correct. It took me awhile to be able to control cars with no assists. Furthermore if you haven't played GT I highly recommend starting with them at least on a low setting (if not 5) until you get used to the physics.

    ABS is the real kicker. When you turn it off brake bias becomes 10x more important as does very subtle finesse of the brake pedal. When I got the G27 I had just started to master ABS off on my dfp and I had to turn it back to ABS 1 until I got used to the new pedal.

    IMO there isn't anything wrong with using aids when you're just starting out ;-)
  18. mcfizzle

    United States Wisconsin
    PSN:GTP_mcfizzle

    That is not true. The DFP rim is 10" diameter, while the DFGT and G27 are 11". I've had both DFP and G27 and there is a big difference in the feel of the wheels in your hand.
  19. smskeeter23

    Premium
    United States Port Washington
    PSN:GTP_skeeter23

    Ya you're probably right I was just eyeballing it. I just knew it wasn't 27" ;-)
  20. mcfizzle

    United States Wisconsin
    PSN:GTP_mcfizzle

    :lol: That would be one massive :censored: wheel. That's like the size of a tire on a mountain bike.:lol:
  21. grzajabarkus

    United States Berkeley, CA
    PSN:grzajabarkus

    I just bought a g27. It's my first racing wheel, I hope this post is just one persons opinion and not so much the downfalls of why this wheel is a waste. I see that you do end up liking it, I'm just now worried, because I just ordered my G27 for 230, new and shipped to my door. I guess I'll just have to try and not worry until I get mine over here and getting use to it.
  22. Gdog96

    United Kingdom England

    Like I said to the other guy, don't worry. It will be fine, when you get it, it will seem strange but you will learn to work with the force feedback and fight it. You need to persevere with it otherwise you will end up returning it then you will have no wheel and be sad...

    This happens to everyone when they get their first wheel..no need to worry:)
  23. Uwontprevail

    United States Texas
    PSN:Uwontprevail

    My g27 and GT5 spec II comes friday, i am so excited, i cant wait at all.

    You will have tons of fun with the racing wheel, the op was being too critical, but from everything i have read its a great wheel and you should have no major complaints.
  24. smskeeter23

    Premium
    United States Port Washington
    PSN:GTP_skeeter23

    Yes, I was. Only complaint I have left is the setup and teardown until I get it permanently mounted ;-)
  25. Uwontprevail

    United States Texas
    PSN:Uwontprevail

    Just got my g27, played with the GT 86 toyota with all assists off except abs on 1.

    First 3 laps were terrible on suzuka, but i started to get the hang of it and started shaving off 3-4 secs every lap till i go to about 1 min 8 secs.

    This is way more fun than i had expected, now to find a good wood cockpit building guide and to go to the junkyard to get a cheap car seat =D

    Still not impresed with the h shifter, i mostly just use the paddle shifters, its too frustrating missing gears because the shifter is so small.

    But other than that, the wheel is amazing and GT5 is even better.


    I too have had problems with all the mess of wires, but once i get a good rig, i will tie them all together and have just the power and usb cable running off the frame of my rig.

    I absolutely adore this wheel, its like playing a completely different game when compared to the DS3.
  26. Serjury

    United States Waco, TX
    PSN:Serjury

    I went from a DFGT to the G27 and it was a nice upgrade. I could stand for more resistance in the pedals, but I can feel the G27 pedals SO much more than the DFGT pedals which feel like they have no resistance at all.

    The FFB is fine to me, it's a matter of finding the right strength setting that works for you.

    My main problem is GT5's handling of the clutch... you just have to get used to it, but it makes me want to rage so bad when I 'miss' a gear because then I clutch in and slam the shifter around for 5 minutes until it decides I'm allowed to shift again.... normal racing I don't have issues but when drifting I wind up in N way too often.

    /rant
  27. smskeeter23

    Premium
    United States Port Washington
    PSN:GTP_skeeter23

    +1000
  28. grzajabarkus

    United States Berkeley, CA
    PSN:grzajabarkus

    I miss shift as well, but i think thats because i don't hit the clutch first, sometimes.
  29. Gdog96

    United Kingdom England

    You'll get the hang of it, just go slow at first when shifting.