Outside front tire always red. How can i get more grip?

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So im a very fast passed driver and i like to push my cars. I love taking turns fast and will always tune a car to turn more until i end up spinning out.

But with this my outside tires are always red.

Ive read that having a front toe to the right will increase turn in grip but im still getting red tired and its only on .01-.05

What are some things i can try or do to get the best amount of grip when turning for the front end? I feel like there's something obvious im missing here.
 
Depends on a plethora of variable, my friend. Drivetrain, PP, tyres, etc, etc. Can you give us an example of a car/tune that is causing you problems?

For the record, over-heating outside front tyres can be a hard one to solve. It may be that you are going to have to accept that with some cars, this is always going to be a problem. I have a few where I've reduced the heating, but it's never completely gone...

{Cy}
 
Depends on a plethora of variable, my friend. Drivetrain, PP, tyres, etc, etc. Can you give us an example of a car/tune that is causing you problems?

For the record, over-heating outside front tyres can be a hard one to solve. It may be that you are going to have to accept that with some cars, this is always going to be a problem. I have a few where I've reduced the heating, but it's never completely gone...

{Cy}
Well i restarted my profile but its happened on pretty much every car ive just bought / tune.

-Mazda Roadster Touring Car (with supercharger/Stage3 engine)
-Mines Skyline (10/90 diff and anything up for front)
-Lotus 97 F1
-Formula GT

Haven't Drove my 787b and v12 LMR in town much so im not sure if they do it, will test later.

Really bad on fast 3 but i mean those are cars going into corners REALLY hard. But i still feel like i should be getting more grip than i am. I would expect f1's to oversteer and in past my 4wd's oversteer and go were i put them. As far as tuned go my tv has a broken inverter board so until i get that fixed it takes an hour for me to get tv on. So ill post next time i feel like dealing with that.
 
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So im a very fast passed driver and i like to push my cars. I love taking turns fast and will always tune a car to turn more until i end up spinning out.

But with this my outside tires are always red.

Ive read that having a front toe to the right will increase turn in grip but im still getting red tired and its only on .01-.05

What are some things i can try or do to get the best amount of grip when turning for the front end? I feel like there's something obvious im missing here.

Well i restarted my profile but its happened on pretty much every car ive just bought / tune.

-Mazda Roadster Touring Car (with supercharger/Stage3 engine)
-Mines Skyline (10/90 diff and anything up for front)
-Lotus 97 F1
-Formula GT

Haven't Drove my 787b and v12 LMR in town much so im not sure if they do it, will test later.

Really bad on fast 3 but i mean those are cars going into corners REALLY hard. But i still feel like i should be getting more grip than i am. I would expect f1's to oversteer and in past my 4wd's oversteer and go were i put them. As far as tuned go my tv has a broken inverter board so until i get that fixed it takes an hour for me to get tv on. So ill post next time i feel like dealing with that.

Woah, ok. So those cars are way outside my comfort zone, with the exception of the Mazda, perhaps. However, the latter three are not cars I would have expected to suffer from over heating outside front tyres, I was expecting much lower PP/tyres and either FWD or 4WD, both of which can be notorious for this problem. Based on what you've written above and on the grounds that I may have misunderstood what your problem is, I'd suggest building @Motor City Hami's Lotus and the Formula GT, I haven't driven either, but I have confidence in his tuning practises. Go and build both and use them as intended, if you're still suffering from the tyres overloading, then you're going to have to adjust your driving style. I have a sneaking suspicion that you might be throwing these cars around with a little too much gay abandon. Sorry I couldn't help more than that...

{Cy}
 
Woah, ok. So those cars are way outside my comfort zone, with the exception of the Mazda, perhaps. However, the latter three are not cars I would have expected to suffer from over heating outside front tyres, I was expecting much lower PP/tyres and either FWD or 4WD, both of which can be notorious for this problem. Based on what you've written above and on the grounds that I may have misunderstood what your problem is, I'd suggest building @Motor City Hami's Lotus and the Formula GT, I haven't driven either, but I have confidence in his tuning practises. Go and build both and use them as intended, if you're still suffering from the tyres overloading, then you're going to have to adjust your driving style. I have a sneaking suspicion that you might be throwing these cars around with a little too much gay abandon. Sorry I couldn't help more than that...
{Cy}

Yeah i tend to push my cars quite a bit. But its always that outside tire and my cars are tuned with the same style of tunes. I mean this like i always run a lot lower rear aero, always late brake late. ect (The braking late always works for me and my tunes it seems, even the deltawing for me is actually really good at it)

The Mazda Roadster actually isn't all that bad. The order from "not that bad" to "red tire all day" is this:
-Roadster
-Lotus97t
-Formula GT
-Mines skyline

So, FR, MR, MR, AWD. I would personally expect the FR to be after the MR's but its not. FR's have shown to be my strong suit when it comes to tuning to rip through a corner.
 
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Yeah i tend to push my cars quite a bit. But its always that outside tire and my cars are tuned with the same style of tunes. I mean this like i always run a lot lower rear aero, always late brake late. ect (The braking late always works for me and my tunes it seems, even the deltawing for me is actually really good at it)

The Mazda Roadster actually isn't all that bad. The order from "not that bad" to "red tire all day" is this:
-Roadster
-Lotus97t
-Formula GT
-Mines skyline

So, FR, MR, MR, AWD. I would personally expect the FR to be after the MR's but its not. FR's have shown to be my strong suit when it comes to tuning to rip through a corner.

So, just to clarify, are you only experiencing the front tyre overheating, or is it both front and rear? If it's just the front tyre, then you need to work on reducing the weight transfer to that wheel.

There are a number of ways to achieve this and it may require a number of elements working in unison in order to do so. Firstly, examine the front suspension. It needs to be stiff enough to resist forward and lateral weight transfer, but too stiff and you're going to scoot straight past corners and off the track. Look at front spring, front compression and front ARB, these will all take weight under braking.

You can also use the rear suspension to help reduce loads on the front of the car. Stiffening the rear spring will help keep weight over those wheels, as will increasing rear extension. In the FR and AWD, you can also use the rear ARB to keep weight off the outside front. If you stiffen it, it will resist lateral weight transfer, keeping weight inboard, but it will increase the responsiveness at that end of the car, so use with caution. You'll notice that both Hami's Lotus and Forumla GT have a front bias for ARBs, that won't be coincidence.

For the AWD, you can use toe to help modulate rotation. Don't be afraid to dial in plenty of positive (+) rear toe and negative (-) front toe, not since the recent update which reset the default toe on everything.

Change one thing at a time, make a note on how the cars behaviour changes, rinse and repeat. Use the data logger as well, as tedious as it may be, there is useful information to be extracted from it.

Beyond that, I can't really recommend anything other than taking out Hami's cars and seeing if you still have the same issues...

{Cy}
EDIT: And I haven't even mentioned the diff. You can use Initial and Braking sensitivity to help keep the rear of the car from overpowering the front.
 
@DSUjoeDirte9 Would it be possible for you to post a video of a lap where the problem is occurring? Using your cell phone camera s the easiest way, please use your normal driving camera rather than the cinematic mode and have the data on so we can see what you are doing with the controls. @CyKosis1973 is pointing you in the right direction as best he can but its mostly guess work on his end 👍
Posting a tune to go with the video will help as well
 
You have some good advice from Cy here. I was going to ask what your front aero is for the faster cars, but you've already said that you run lower rear aero so it looks like your front must be set to give good grip.

Couple of thoughts:
1) What is your front camber? If it's not zero then give zero or very low a go and see if it helps. IMHO it's easy to go too high as the outside front gains a lot when steering. Feel free to couple this with excessive toe - don't be afraid to try extreme settings just to see what happens, even if it won't be part of your final setting!

2) This is going to be difficult to explain, but when does the tyre turn red/ front grip fail? It's a bit of an academic question since it obviously depends on your driving style! I definitely agree with Cy's thoughts on stiffening the rear, but another thing I would add is to try a harder/softer setup overall. Depending on the timing of your braking/steering inputs, sometimes a softer suspension can feel like it delays the response. This can be bad sometimes, as in "the car doesn't respond quick enough". BUT, it depends what the "response" is!

If the tyres are all white and you've turned in, but the car still thinks it's on the straightaway for a second, then I dare say you want more response, as in the timescale you're talking about the tyre may only be doing 50% of what it is capable of - you want more so you can turn in!

If the tyre goes to insta-red then you're getting the response too quickly, better to tone it down a bit and have the nose bite in nicely at 70-80% rather than overloading at 120%. This may set it up to go red a little later but depending on your style you may not be making the same braking/steering inputs at that time - when the tyre becomes "incapable" you're not actually asking it to do as much.

The above bits on transient response undoubtedly will be affected by dampers - I've not delved into them that much yet beyond general stiffening/softening but there are definitely good guides out there. In my experience springs affect things too with regard to general sharpening/softening response (comes down to spring frequency).

3) Brake balance. More rear brake bias - keep adding it until you spin out! This and/or LSD have sometimes cured a car that won't turn in well.

4) Ride height: I'm not sure if the latest patch changed this, but a higher front ride height would give me a better turn in reposnse (more initial front grip), then less front grip on exit. This was ideal to get the car turned in, then get back on the power - the exit understeer meant you could really hammer the gas pedal without worrying too much about the rear spinning out. Chuck it in, aim the nose just inside the apex and then engage warp drive!

At high speed with aero I'm not sure if this still applies - using the N24 on SSRX I found that a high front gave general understeer at high speed - but then again the corners are so gentle that it probably wasn't the best place to test sharp response!

5) Driving style: You've mentioned that you turn in quite aggressively. If you're not comfortable with taking things more gently in general, try changing your braking/steering timings i.e. feel free to chuck the car in but try changing the timing of your brake release, or even start the release at the usual time but try jumping off them suddenly vs blending them into the corner (like you would with textbook trail braking). Some cars don't turn much and then with a sudden brake release the front tyres dig in like a spade.

6) Bodges (not great but if all else fails):
Increase rear camber until the rears become ineffective - you'll suffer in other areas though - not ideal.

Hammer the throttle after brake release to slip the rear tyres as the front are going red, turn in extra early as you'll basically be 4 wheel drifting through the corner. You might need to shorten gear ratios to get the rears to break free. Basically crippling the rear tyres, but at least you choose when to do it unlike with excessive rear camber!

Would you mind posting settings/tyres/desired track for the Mazda? I'm not on GT6 much but if I get some time I'd be happy to have a play myself to see if I can get anything to work. EDIT : Tree'd by @DolHaus - good ideas.

Cheers,

Bread
 
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You cannot always solve outside front tire overheating, especially when pushing at 100%. There are techniques to lowering it that can also help lower lap times too. If you are not racing with tire wear, then it's not much of an issue. If racing with tire wear, you are going to need to do something.

Can you post a tune, or PM one to maybe me, @CyKosis1973 and @DolHaus.

Things to try:
- lower LSD initial (and make sure that LSD accel is optimized, meaning both rear tires spin at the same time, not one side firts)
- higher front ARB to limit weight transfer to the outside
- zero front camber
- lower front springs
- higher front damper extension
- higher rear damper compression
- more negative rear toe
- more negative front toe

Those settings come to mind, but it would be easier to make recommendations if I could see the tune.
 
- higher front damper extension
- higher rear damper compression
- more negative rear toe
- more negative front toe

Those settings come to mind, but it would be easier to make recommendations if I could see the tune.

So this does not make the car have more oversteer or understeer right? This is just to help the car stop sliding throughout a corner?

For some odd reason either if my car is understeering or oversteering, while I'm turning it tends to just lose it. It frustrates me so much I have stopped playing this game for a while >:(. I hate only driving FF cars all the time.
 
So this does not make the car have more oversteer or understeer right? This is just to help the car stop sliding throughout a corner?

For some odd reason either if my car is understeering or oversteering, while I'm turning it tends to just lose it. It frustrates me so much I have stopped playing this game for a while >:(. I hate only driving FF cars all the time.
If you are driving an FF then you are always going to have problems with cooking the outside front tyre. The tyre only has so much grip, in an FF the front tyre is having to deal with all the force of steering and the force of accelerating and braking, the only real way to solve the problem is by changing your driving style.

The trick is to make sure you're not over working the tyre, only do one input at a time, braking, steering and accelerating should all be done separately.

Brake in a straight line on entry
Off the brakes and turn in
While steering angle is applied let the car roll through the bend until you can see the exit
As you slacken off the steering angle and straighten up bring in the power and exit smoothly

FFs don't respond well to aggressive driving, be smooth to be fast
 
Guys im afraid that im going to have to re-buy and re-tune all my cars again. My hard drive in which i reformatted and had to restart, new went out again. So im going to have to buy a new hard drive and stop trying to fix this one. Will be back and like a week and try to post tunes if im still having issues.
 
If you are driving an FF then you are always going to have problems with cooking the outside front tyre. The tyre only has so much grip, in an FF the front tyre is having to deal with all the force of steering and the force of accelerating and braking, the only real way to solve the problem is by changing your driving style.

The trick is to make sure you're not over working the tyre, only do one input at a time, braking, steering and accelerating should all be done separately.

Brake in a straight line on entry
Off the brakes and turn in
While steering angle is applied let the car roll through the bend until you can see the exit
As you slacken off the steering angle and straighten up bring in the power and exit smoothly

FFs don't respond well to aggressive driving, be smooth to be fast

I was more talking about MR and FR cars. I said I'm tired of only driving FF cars because those the only cars I can tune and drive at the moment.
 
So this does not make the car have more oversteer or understeer right? This is just to help the car stop sliding throughout a corner?

For some odd reason either if my car is understeering or oversteering, while I'm turning it tends to just lose it. It frustrates me so much I have stopped playing this game for a while >:(. I hate only driving FF cars all the time.


I was more talking about MR and FR cars. I said I'm tired of only driving FF cars because those the only cars I can tune and drive at the moment.

To answer your first question, the settings that I mentioned will reduce understeer. Do the opposite to calm these cars down.

As for your second question, FRs are actually easier to tune than FFs. I think that the Mazda Miata is one of the easiest cars to learn with. Then move up to maybe an RX7 or RX8. Then work up to the 2010 Camaro, the Mustang Boss 302, the BMW M3s, The Ferrari California. All of these cars are fun to drive and react well to tuning changes (which makes them easier to tune).

Start with the Miata add the full suspension and then tune the LSD first. Read my guide for the LSD in the tuning link in my signature. If you learn just LSD tuning, the game will become much, much more fun.
 
To answer your first question, the settings that I mentioned will reduce understeer. Do the opposite to calm these cars down.

As for your second question, FRs are actually easier to tune than FFs. I think that the Mazda Miata is one of the easiest cars to learn with. Then move up to maybe an RX7 or RX8. Then work up to the 2010 Camaro, the Mustang Boss 302, the BMW M3s, The Ferrari California. All of these cars are fun to drive and react well to tuning changes (which makes them easier to tune).

Start with the Miata add the full suspension and then tune the LSD first. Read my guide for the LSD in the tuning link in my signature. If you learn just LSD tuning, the game will become much, much more fun.

Great advice MCH.

I personally think the Miata (especially the Roadster TC) is the best car to learn tuning on. It is the car I learned the most with. I find it has very definite response to even the smallest changes (good and bad) and therefore really helps to understand how certain changes affect the car's behaviour. Try things on this car, learn what the changes do to the car's handling and then apply that knowledge to most other cars.

Of course there will always be exceptions, and cars with different drivetrain layouts will have unique tuning needs (FR vs. MR vs. FF, etc) but definitely for learning FR tuning and helping to understand the basic principles, this is the way to start.
 
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