The Inconvenient Truth About Hybrids: Hybrids Owners Get More Tickets?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Joey D
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What year is the Prius? You could just compare a Corolla from the same year.
 
More hybrid "news", I didn't really think this warranted a new thread and since this is the hybrid article dump I figured I'd just throw it in here.

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Autoblog Green
We have the proof: hybrid drivers are the liberal, artistic types
I've been writing here at AutoblogGreen for almost two years now. Every now and again, I see a press release that gets my "the readers will have a field day with this one" senses tingling. What were some of the other announcements or stories fit this tingly category? The story about cars driven by first dates (both for the men and the women) certainly fit the bill. Bob Lutz's "crock of ****" statement, too. Today, we got another. The short of it is this: an online advertising / branding firm, Mindset Media, says that its proprietary psychographic standard reveals that hybrid drivers are, for the most part, highly creative, more liberal, "more open-minded, more spontaneous, and more assured of their ability to lead others." If that doesn't get a response, I've lost touch with y'all - that, or, you're putting me on :)

Anyway, here's what Mindset Media is claiming. Based on the results of a Nielsen's Online panel survey of hybrid drivers, the company has developed a "mindset profile" (yes, that's trademarked) for people who tool around with a gas-electric powertrain. The results are that these drivers are 78 percent more likely than someone in the general population to be "highly creative" and also have higher-than-average scores in those items categories listed above. iI Mindset Media's terminology, hybrid drivers are"Creativity 5s" and "Dogmatism 1s." Mindset Media's announcement (and explanation about what a "Creativity 5" is) is after the jump.
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Mindset Media
Mindset Media Study Finds People Who Drive Hybrid Cars Are More Creative and Less Dogmatic Than Population at Large
NEW YORK, March 12 /PRNewswire/ -- Mindset Media (http://www.mindset-media.com), an online ad network that enables brand advertisers to reach millions of people with the personality traits that fit their brands, released today a Mindset Profile(TM) of hybrid car drivers, which the company generated from a recent study conducted using Nielsen's Online panel (http://www.nielsen-online.com).

If recent media speculation holds up, Volkswagen will become the 13th auto brand to offer or plan to offer hybrids to U.S. auto consumers. As the "clean and green" segment takes off and competition heats up, auto manufacturers will need to understand exactly what makes people who like hybrids tick. According to a recent study conducted by Mindset Media, people who drive hybrid cars are 78 percent more likely than the general population to be highly creative or, in Mindset Media parlance, "Creativity 5s." Hybrid drivers are also far more likely to be more liberal than the general population -- "Dogmatism 1s," -- and the study found hybrid owners to be more open-minded, more spontaneous, and more assured of their ability to lead others.

Mindset Media defines Creativity 5s as inventive and imaginative people. Creativity 5s also tend to be emotionally sensitive and intellectually curious.

"A Mindset Buy(TM) of any of these 'hybrid Mindsets' will reach millions of people with the 'wiring' to love hybrids," said Sarah Welch, COO and co-founder of Mindset Media. "A Mindset Buy will extend the target reach of any hybrid plan simply and efficiently."

About Mindset Media

Mindset Media is the internet ad network for brands. Using its proprietary psychographic standard, Mindset Media enables brand advertisers to target millions of people with the personality traits that fit their brands in online media buys. The company works in partnership with Nielsen Online to develop consumer profiles that help brand marketers specify their psychographic targets. For more information, visit http://www.mindset-media.com.
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I don't know how much I agree with this, I mean yes when I think of hybrids I think of the liberal weenie who never washes, hugs trees all day, and think playing songs no one has heard of on a ragged old guitar is the best way to score with chicks. I guess for some reason I always thought the sterotype on hybrid owners was wrong but this article just perpetuates it. Any thoughts?

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When I get some time I'm going to give some updated numbers with the increased fuel prices, both petrol and diesel. I also want to find out about E85 and if you are really going to save money in the long run by using it over petrol. If someone knows where I can find the fuel economy for something running E85 that would be great.
 
Not the un-washed hippie types...the guilt-filled elitist types. The "I bought a Hybrid, so I'm better than you because I'm SAVING the ENVIRONMENT" types. The Prius is one of the few cars I want to blow off every time I pull up next to one. I dont' because I'm responsible...

and I only have 80HP.

Most of the Priuses I see are parked in front of nice, big houses, not where a '78 VW Bus used to be.

Others are simply not willing to pay a bunch at the pump. These people tend not to buy Toyotas, instead going Nissan, Honda, or GM.
 
A friend of mine bought a Prius last year. He isn't a guilt-ridden elitist type at all. In fact, he loves my gas guzzling M Roadster in all its 17 mpg (personal observed mileage) glory.

He does own a nice big house though.


M
 
///M-Spec
A friend of mine bought a Prius last year. He isn't a guilt-ridden elitist type at all. In fact, he loves my gas guzzling M Roadster in all its 17 mpg (personal observed mileage) glory.

He does own a nice big house though.


M
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Well, I was making a gross generalization. I know that's probably not the case with EVERYONE that steps into a dealership and buys a Prius. It never is.

I read a story in an old car mag about a guy who was, for all intents and purposes, a nerd, who bought, of all things, a brand-new Buick GS455. (Dating the story) And would do burnouts down by the spillway parking lot.
 
Hybrids may be completely questionable for long hauls and as a daily driver, but they make good sense as taxis. All the stop and go, low rpm driving would provide plenty of regenerative braking. My Dad and I were in a Prius taxi in Las Vegas that has 226000 miles on it. I think the company got their price premium back.

Then again, it could be totally negated if they use AC.
 
it doesn't matter about Hybrids. we have a thing rigged here in the US where the base fuel economy is an inverse ratio to the size of the gas tank. the better the economy, the tinyer the gas tank!

unlike most people, I tend to get the EPA estimate (according to the old testing standard).
my best milage came from an AMERICAN car! not my first toyota!
milages, for example
ford CFI 3.8/3 speed auto--16.6
GM 2.5 TBI 4/3 auto--24.4
Toyota 2se 4/4et-od auto--25 (some idiot put the engine back together with blue goo instead of head and cam gaskets!)
GM 3.1 MPI V6/4 auto--15.4 (seized up knock sensor)
Chrysler 2.2 4/4 auto--22
ford 3.0 MPI V6/4 auto--not recorded
GM 4.3 Vortec V6/4 auto--17.5 (4wd shotbed fullsize pickup with deisel fuel cell for equipment, 100 gallons!)
ford 3.8 MPI V6/4 auto--15.4 (more nailed knock sensors)
GM 4.3 Vortec type W (delivery unknown)/4 auto--9.99!!(4wd s-Blazer, another bad knock sensor AND a bad cam)
Toyota 3VZE/4 ET-od auto--19.3 economy/17.5 power

remember, Deisel has a rep in the the US for being dirty, smelly, noisy, and only used in lorries/trucks. despite scroogy VW Turbo-Deisels that were EPA listed at 45 MPG. in the US Deisel+Car=FAIL...and deisel is running 50 cents more a gallon (give or take) than gas/petrol
 
Joey D
I don't know how much I agree with this, I mean yes when I think of hybrids I think of the liberal weenie who never washes, hugs trees all day, and think playing songs no one has heard of on a ragged old guitar is the best way to score with chicks. I guess for some reason I always thought the sterotype on hybrid owners was wrong but this article just perpetuates it. Any thoughts?
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That's getting close.

My brother order the original Prius when it had a six month waiting list. He is nearly as socialist as you can get without calling for a switch to Communism. Any time there is a problem or issue his solution is that the government should step in a fix it, ban something, etc. and pay for it with a new tax.

He also called the police on his neighbor who was watering his lawn during a water restriction caused by a drought.

At one point in time he actually believed that terrorists attacked the US because we use so much oil and damage the environment.

And in Hawaii he bought a Ukulele and thinks everyone should listen as he struggles his way through learning how to play.


He does shower though.


At the end of the day he thinks he is saving the world by driving a hybrid.


So, yeah that survey gets him pretty close.
 
Seems like a reasonable characterization. I'd generally consider hybrid drivers to be generally more educated (although not about their cars), with a higher income, and generally seem to be more of that Kashi/Whole Foods/Democrat/Sierra Club type folks.

...Not that its a bad thing, they are all very nice people, they just don't understand how the cars work exactly...

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Per Joey's question of E85 ratings:

I think its mandated that they must be placed on the window stickers of E85 capable vehicles. I'm sure GM has a big page about it somewhere...

Generally, however, I think the rule of thumb is that they're about 30% less efficent when running E85.
 
///M-Spec
A friend of mine bought a Prius last year. He isn't a guilt-ridden elitist type at all. In fact, he loves my gas guzzling M Roadster in all its 17 mpg (personal observed mileage) glory.

He does own a nice big house though.


M
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A friend of mine owns a Prius, is moderately wealthy, and - gasp! - votes Republican!
 
This would certainly explain why the entire west coast is covered in them and I barely see them out here. There are probably more tree-hugging liberals pre square mile in Seattle than the rest of the country. Thus, there would be more hybrids per capita there.
 
Try Berkeley. :eek:

YSSMAN
Seems like a reasonable characterization. I'd generally consider hybrid drivers to be generally more educated (although not about their cars), with a higher income, and generally seem to be more of that Kashi/Whole Foods/Democrat/Sierra Club type folks.

...Not that its a bad thing, they are all very nice people, they just don't understand how the cars work exactly...
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Spot on!! :lol:
 
Why E85 is a bad choice for consumers:

Alright I said I would do this. I picked the Impala LTZ, base price $28,055 with the 3.9L VVT & Active Fuel Management engine in it. This seemed like a good family vehicle that many people would buy. So lets run through the numbers both on E85 and petrol.

According to www.chevy.com under petrol the Impala gets 17/25mpg with a 21mpg average and 12/19 with a 15.5mpg average while burning E85. As Brad pointed out that is 30% less efficient while using E85. Does the lower cost of E85 though save you money though?

According to www.e85prices.com the average price for a gallon of E85 in America today 14/3/08 is $2.64 while according to www.eiu.doe.gov the average price for regular is $3.22. A difference of $.58 per gallon.

Using petrol the Impala can go 357 miles (21mpg) before it is completely dry. At the current prices it would cost $54.74 to fill it up. If you drove 12,000 miles per year you would have to fill up 34 times bringing the final fuel bill to $1,861.16.

Using E85 the Impala can go 263.5 miles (15.5mpg) before it is completely dry. At current prices it would cost $44.88 to fill up. If you drove 12,000 miles per year you would have to fill up 46 times bringing the final fuel bill t0 $2,064.48.

This is a difference of $203.32 per year more expensive to use E85. As you can see using E85 doesn't save you any money at all and since we know that it takes more fossil fuel to produce it, it isn't saving the environment either.
 
Unless you have your car set up so that you'd have to run Avgas instead.

I think E85...actually, pure Ethanol, is a viable alternative to, say, racing fuel. Primarily for that compression increase.

The problem with a flexfuel vehicle is that, because it cannot increase it's compression ratio, it has to be set up to run on pump gas from the get go, not allowing the Alcohol fuel to achieve it's full power potential. Blown vehicles CAN do this, but that requires a blower or turbo in the first place.

No, I'm not as enthusiastic about Ethanol as I used to be, but I still like it as a high-performance fuel. It's cheaper than Racing Gas, after all.
 
Government subsidies will likely bring the price of E85 down significantly as the plants and distribution centers come on line. The future likely sits with companies like Coskata, who can produce ethanol out of just about anything... Including garbage, compost, and other materials that most humans would just throw away.

We'll see what happens. My Dad buys it on occasion for the Avalanche, and Grandpa does too with the Yukon. It all depends...
 
We need to quit making ethanol out of corn because all that does is make prices on everything else go up. I like the idea of garbage, compost, etc. but it all comes down to money and I can't see the farmers giving that up.
 
I always thought Hybrids were a "bandage" way of thinking we're taking care of some of the environmental problems we're facing but, I some how felt skeptical they were going to do anything different than a regular powered car. The only benefits I've seen with Hybrids at this point is you get to ride by yourself in the carpool lane... That's about it.
 
V1P3R
I always thought Hybrids were a "bandage" way of thinking we're taking care of some of the environmental problems we're facing but, I some how felt skeptical they were going to do anything different than a regular powered car. The only benefits I've seen with Hybrids at this point is you get to ride by yourself in the carpool lane... That's about it.
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What about scoring with hot liberal chicks? That has to be a plus in some way.
 
ha...

Joey D
We need to quit making ethanol out of corn because all that does is make prices on everything else go up. I like the idea of garbage, compost, etc. but it all comes down to money and I can't see the farmers giving that up.
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Untill it stops being about money and about Government favors n stuff then we can really solve problems...
 
Joey D
but it all comes down to money and I can't see the farmers giving that up.
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Not the government either.

Water treatment plants power themselves from the methane of sewage.. We CAN make ourselves energy independent. We just have to get really creative. Switchgrass is another idea that has some merit, but still won't solve the problem. Is there some way to make fuel out of all kinds of stuff and have it at a standardized octane rating?

Or, we could all get old VW and Mercedes diesels and build greasecars. ...:dopey:
 
Joey D
We need to quit making ethanol out of corn because all that does is make prices on everything else go up. I like the idea of garbage, compost, etc. but it all comes down to money and I can't see the farmers giving that up.
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But.... But..... It'll help the farming industry!:dopey:

Joey D
What about scoring with hot liberal chicks? That has to be a plus in some way.
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What Liberal hot chicks? And will they approve of a Prius? You can't be into cars to appreciate a Prius. And if any other girls are an indication, if they don't know about cars, they won't know what a Prius is trying to do.
 
I'm sorry to dig this up, but this was too much.....
Joey D
Toyota might not be as green as the claim they are according to one site. Truth About Toyota.com basically shows the company is not all it says it is and deceives the buying public, which only goes to help my theory that the Prius is only about sales and nothing else.
Truth About Toyota
Americans are concerned about high gas prices, the environment and our dangerous dependence on foreign oil. An increase in fuel economy standards—making sure new autos get more miles to the gallon—could help Americans save money at the pump, reduce global warming pollution, and enhance our national security by reducing our dependence on foreign oil. So, it is disturbing to hear Toyota talking out of both sides of its mouth when it comes to increasing fuel economy.

Supported by the sale of its Prius hybrid, Toyota has carefully crafted a “green” image. But what Toyota doesn't talk about is the battle it is waging against the first meaningful increase in U.S. fuel economy in 30 years. The company is also fighting efforts in states across the country, such as California's Pavley clean cars law, that would reduce those states' global warming pollution. It is clear: when it comes to being green, Toyota talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk.
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And now on to the good stuff...the facts which can all be seen here: http://www.truthabouttoyota.com/facts.html
Truth About Toyota
What they claim: Toyota's corporate website claims the company will “actively promote countermeasures to global warming, the most serious of the world's environmental issues.”

The truth is: Despite the fact that Toyota's own corporate website warns against the dangers of global warming—calling it “the most serious of the world's environmental issues”—two major auto trade associations of which Toyota is a member are suing to stop California's new law to reduce global warming pollution. Toyota says it recognizes the problem, but it doesn't want to be part of the solution.

At least 13 states are following California's lead in adopting standards that would reduce global warming pollution from new cars. Toyota's trade associations oppose them all.
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So basically Toyota is riding the coat tails of the Prius by making people think the rest of their line is green...and we already know the Prius really isn't as green as it says it is when you factor in production.
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Toyota is not the only company that's selling this "green image". GM does it, Honda does it, don't forget Ford/Mercury. Granted, none of them sell it to the extent Toyota does, but you either do it, or don't do it. And if you quote this Truth About Toyota people saying: "An increase in fuel economy standards—making sure new autos get more miles to the gallon" How many companies sell that? Maybe majority of them?

Pavley's law simply wasn't very good law. The Environmental Protection Agency fought this law from going into effect, saying it's too expensive, and it does very little to fight Global Warming. Every major car sellers in the States from the Big 3 to the Japanese to the Koreans to the Europeans sued to stop it. That's everybody.

P.S. I did not know this before, but according to wiki, I guess they sued on the basis that " this is simply a way to impose gas mileage standards on automobiles--a field already preempted by federal rules".
 
Toyota does it the worst of any other company though and they have sold people that if you want to get good fuel mileage and save the environment you should buy a Prius. I've shown in the first post you make a poor financial move if you buy a Prius solely for the gas savings and we all know that the Prius isn't exactly eco-friendly in the building process.

I do agree GM is getting that way with their SUV hybrids which are pointless (I need to run the figures on those). Honestly the only companies I can see that are pushing the green movement along better then anyone is Honda and BMW. I think the big break through will come from one of those companies and I'm betting Honda over BMW for affordable, alternative fuels.
 
Joey D
Toyota does it the worst of any other company though and they have sold people that if you want to get good fuel mileage and save the environment you should buy a Prius. I've shown in the first post you make a poor financial move if you buy a Prius solely for the gas savings and we all know that the Prius isn't exactly eco-friendly in the building process.

I do agree GM is getting that way with their SUV hybrids which are pointless (I need to run the figures on those). Honestly the only companies I can see that are pushing the green movement along better then anyone is Honda and BMW. I think the big break through will come from one of those companies and I'm betting Honda over BMW for affordable, alternative fuels.
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Way I look at it, Hybrid technology is still developing. While I would not buy a hybrid car, people who are buying hybrids are investing into a future of that technology whether they like it or not. Maybe they'd rather be ripped off by a Toyota Dealer than oil companies, whatever. They are funding R&D into more efficient future hybrid cars with better battery technology(lithium?).

And on this building process, if you are referring to that nickel plant in Canada, that place has been that way for decades(maybe even before Toyota showed up in America), and it's not even ran by Toyota. That's just where they are buying the nickel from.

I think hybrid technology shows some promise, and I don't know why doubters see these early stage hybrid cars and hate on it, like they are being forced to buy it or something. Is this corporation bending the facts, lying to make themselves look good? There's a first(no).
 
There is still no reason to buy a hybrid vehicle over a fuel efficient, normal, petrol vehicle. Seriously I'm sticking it more to the oil companies by driving my car then if I owned a Prius. I don't think you will see much R&D in hybrids because I think auto companies see that they are just a small gravy train they can ride till something better comes along, which I firmly believe will be hydrogen fuel cells. Many think plug-in hybrids are the way to go but all that will do is put a huge strain on the electric grid and make your home electric bill go to the moon.

The building process is more then just the nickel mine, it's the transportation, the plastics used, the replacement of the batteries, etc. The car just isn't as eco-friendly as people think it is. Sure it gets good fuel mileage, but there are more factors that that when you look environmental impact...the details get overlooked.

Hybrids are a bad idea like I've said, there are better ways to do this but since the oil companies hold a monopoly on the world we are more or less screwed as consumers. Hell they can run cars on compressed air for god sakes, yet we are still forced to drive around with vehicles that burn a non-renewable resource. The car is what? 110 years old? That's a hug development time and we are still only getting at most 45mpg (realistic numbers).
 
Joey D
There is still no reason to buy a hybrid vehicle over a fuel efficient, normal, petrol vehicle. Seriously I'm sticking it more to the oil companies by driving my car then if I owned a Prius. I don't think you will see much R&D in hybrids because I think auto companies see that they are just a small gravy train they can ride till something better comes along, which I firmly believe will be hydrogen fuel cells. Many think plug-in hybrids are the way to go but all that will do is put a huge strain on the electric grid and make your home electric bill go to the moon.
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Hydrogen powered cars, I've been waiting since I was a kid. I would not mind that at all. My coworkers claim that it's already in use in Iceland(of course, figures).

Good point on plug-ins.
Joey D
The building process is more then just the nickel mine, it's the transportation, the plastics used, the replacement of the batteries, etc. The car just isn't as eco-friendly as people think it is. Sure it gets good fuel mileage, but there are more factors that that when you look environmental impact...the details get overlooked.
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In a age where everything is made somewhere else, I can not believe the nitpicking in that study. Actually, I can. But I can't believe how impressed people are with it. I think the critics are making their mind up on hybrids, little prematurely. Automobiles sucked compared to horses in the begining, too(OK, that's bit much).
Joey D
Hybrids are a bad idea like I've said, there are better ways to do this but since the oil companies hold a monopoly on the world we are more or less screwed as consumers. Hell they can run cars on compressed air for god sakes, yet we are still forced to drive around with vehicles that burn a non-renewable resource. The car is what? 110 years old? That's a hug development time and we are still only getting at most 45mpg (realistic numbers).
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It doesn't matter. If it weren't oil, they'll just find something else to take advantage of us on.
 
Yes they have hydrogen powered cars in Iceland, they also have geo-thermal energy which melts the roads and sidewalks during a snow storm so you don't have to shovel either...it must be what the future will be like.

As with how hybrids are built, I have no problem with them being shipped all over the place, I know every vehicle is. The problem I have with it is if you are going to market it as a green machine you should make a point of making it green on all levels. I'm sure you've seen the Top Gear clip where the S-class is more eco-friendly then the Prius.
 

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