Slow in / Fast out

  • Thread starter Thread starter PlusP357
  • 45 comments
  • 6,203 views
A most excellent and informative post! I'm a new poster with limited experience in PC racing sims (GTR2) and new to PS3 (Xmas gift) and GT5P here.

Instead of starting a new thread I would like to go a bit OT - I'm very pleased to see such maturity at GT planet towards GT5P! This thread is very informative and I hope to have more time to read the other threads here at GT planet. I've been playing GT5P for a few days and enjoy the game even though I'm progressing very slowly (I'm a slow, but safe driver! sorry :nervous: ). I hope to see others racers from GT planet online (please wave when you pass me! :) ).

PSN name = Patrocles

Cheers!
 
I just want to say something about the drivers who go in as hard as they can, and hit the wall on purpose...They get the penalty of course, but by the time the penalty is done, they have full throttle and are still ahead of you. I was at the high speed ring today(reverse) and so many drivers did that. I am able to pass them after turn two, but its still annoying when you try to out brake them, but they are just wall riding.. So there is no point. I guess its just one of those things..
 
I
Try not to pass in a corner. Occasionally it will work out, but more often than not, you set yourself up for a bad line into the next 2 corners!!! Also, even though this is not the real world or a sim, it is important to give the driver who "owns" the racing line/corner, some leeway.

Generally your post had very good advice, but two points:

1) If you brake at the proper point in the current online chaos, you almost always get rammed from behind. I've even been flashing my brake-lights coming up to the corners, but still if I slow down enough I often get rammed by some maniac. That isn't to say that your advice is wrong, because your bit about slow-in fast-out is completely correct, I'm just pointing out that if you have someone in your rear-view mirror, you're probably better off going ahead and blowing your line by breaking too late, because otherwise you're very likely going to be clobbered...

2) Passing on the straights is only for people not driving the Elise! Seriously, I went out last night and won race after race in the corners, not the straights. This was in the Expert series on High-Speed Ring. Over and over the more powerful cars would pass on the straight, and over and over I would dance between them in the bends, passing inside, passing outside, weaving through the pack, always being careful and trying to be polite. I was in the zone (tonight, however, I was definitely NOT in the zone, darn it...) and The Elise is simply an amazing car. But, "pass on the straights" simply isn't the correct method for a car like that one at all.

As another posted mentioned, the "Speed Secrets" books are great. Pay special attention to the bit about how tires work, it helped me a lot.
 
Not pass in a corner? I'm sorry that is complete and utter bull****. The person in front should be defending their spot. And once your past the a-pillar its up to the driver behind them to give way.

I did not say, "Don't pass in a corner." I meant that it is not always best to pass in a corner if it sets you up with a disadvantage into the next corner.

Many races have been won by drivers seeing that they have an advantage and can successfully make the pass in a corner. The downside is that the other driver may have you in his blindspot and will knock you off course. Worse than that, your aggressiveness may knock him off course and ruin his race. That's just selfish. We have all seen the bumper car contests that some of these races turn into. In any type of racing, situational awareness is the responsibility of the driver attempting to pass. If the driver attempting to pass in another car's blind spot causes the contact, he must also suffer the consequences. Everyone is racing for fun. It's the discourteous drivers that cause all the problems. You just have to try to be patient and try to be a sportsman. I for one have ruined many a person's chances at a checkered flag through my own impatience. I believe we all have at some point. It is important not to upset the driver who clearly "owns" the line.

In some sims (and certainly in the real world) your suspension and tires may be significantly damaged by making contact. You can see where I am going from here...and don't forget, GT5 should have some kind of damage modeling. However, it remains to be seen whether or not it will portray cosmetic or some kind of "realistic" suspension type damage.

However, if you can make a clean pass, by all means, capitalize on it. That's racing.

For your birthday I think you should ask for a dictionary and look up the meaning of rant.

rant
v. rant·ed, rant·ing, rants

v. intr.
To speak or write in an angry or violent manner; rave.

v. tr.
To utter or express with violence or extravagance: a dictator who ranted his vitriol onto a captive audience.

n.

1. Violent or extravagant speech or writing.
2. A speech or piece of writing that incites anger or violence: "The vast majority [of teenagers logged onto the Internet] did not encounter recipes for pipe bombs or deranged rants about white supremacy" (Daniel Okrent).
3. Chiefly British Wild or uproarious merriment.

Wow!!! I've been had! :) I am investing in a dictionary ASAP.

Sounds like many people in this thread want to learn more.

I'd recommend

1. Going Faster - Skip Barber Racing School.

2. The Speed Secrets series - 3 books. 1st book is the best.

They are all available on Amazon.com etc, and well worth it if you're interested in.... going faster. :)

That is some great advice.

I am not hyping LFS. This is the GT5 forum and I love this game. However, for the sake of a demonstration of good etiquette, this video says it all. Fast forward a bit into it and you will see some good clean online racing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKo4E5myGUc&feature=related

Here is some good advice for those interested in online racing etiquette.

http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Clean_Racers_Club_Rules

It comes from the Live For Speed online manual. Not all of it will apply to GT5:P, but much of it will be helpful in many circumstances. Furthermore, if you type in "Sim racing etiquette" in a search engine, you will be linked to a number of sites that post a number of racing organization's rules about passing, vehicular contact, etc. You will see that most everyone agrees on basic courtesies in the racing environment. It's really just basic common sense stuff but there is almost always some information that may be new and beneficial to those who are interested.

I will state straight way that there are almost no rules short of the sometimes faulty penalty in GT5. In no way is anyone expected to follow any type rules when racing online and I am not trying to steer GT5 into the hardcore sim category. That would not be fun for everyone and I have no problem with that. Some of the points I provided below are meant to only enhance the online enjoyment of racers that agree to follow any commonly agreed upon rules. You just have to decide for yourself whether or not you want to be a good sportsman or a winner at all costs.

Here are just a few examples:

(Corner rights rules are generally straight forward in any sim type game)

Corner Rights

CR-1: You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner’s turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. Substantial overlap means at least that the front of your car is up to say the driver’s position in the ahead car - and that’s at the very least. You probably should have more overlap in some circumstances. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.

CR-2: If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must then leave sufficient side room for the behind driver.

CR-2A: The car on the outside has the right to outside room all the way through the corner – right up to the exit point. They should not be squeezed against the outside towards the exit point.

CR-2B: The car on the inside has the right to inside room all the way through the corner - right up to the exit point. They should not be squeezed against the inside towards the apex area. The ahead driver can still battle for the position of course but must do so while maintaining side room for the behind driver. The practice of going up the inside of an ahead car after they have already turned in, and where there was no established substantial overlap before the turn-in point, is sometimes referred to as barge passing, ( I.e. you barge your way past ). Understand that barge passing is a high risk manoeuvre for both you and others. You have no rights what-so-ever as a barge passer. Should you cause an accident from a barge passing manoeuvre you’ll be in a defenceless position should you be protested?

CR-3: Where an ahead driver has clearly made a sufficient error to warrant a passing move a behind driver may attack their position, with due caution and care, regardless of whether there was any pre-existing overlap. E.g. - If the ahead driver brakes too late and drifts out wide of the apex and then has to reduce speed etc. This would be a valid passing opportunity regardless of whether there was pre-existing overlap. However, there is still substantial responsibility on the overtaking driver to take all necessary care to avoid contact. Small errors by the ahead driver may not be sufficient to justify an attacking passing move however. Just because the ahead drivers gets a bit out of shape at times doesn’t give you an automatic right to pass uncontested by them or a right to room. You still have to judge if their error provides sufficient opportunity for a safe pass to take place.

Defensive Driving

DD-1: Leading cars have the right to choose their own line down a straight. They may make one move to block an attacking car to protect their position while on a straight - but then must maintain that position as long as the attacker remains affected by their position. Then, naturally, as they approach the next corner, they can of course return to the racing line of their choice for the corner.

DD-2: Leading cars have the right to take their line of choice through corners. E.G. they may drive a defensive line around the inside of a corner to protect their position, thereby forcing an attacking driver to try to pass around the outside. This is not blocking and is part of normal racing etiquette.


Like I stated earlier, there are no rules in GT5 and I really don't expect to see many people racing as fairly in the average online race. They are just more tools to put in your toolbox and can easily be implemented if GT5 eventually offers private server rooms.
 
PlusP357, great stuff on corner rights etc, but you just triple posted. You're in big trouble!
 
Perfect advice.

Set up your corners. If you use a DFP or G25 you can feel the weight shift on the car. A perfect example (where I always get rear ended) is the hairpin at Suzuka. Two turns before the hairpin is a 90 degree right hander (2nd gear in most cars) followed by a short straight and then a relatively high speed (4th gear) right hander. Now after this turn you need to brake hard to hit the hairpin correctly. Depending on the car (especially rear wheel drive) you need to do this very carefully. As you exit the right hander your cars weight is shifted to the left. You can "feel" this in the force feedback. You cannot break until the cars weight has equilibrated or you will lose control. Once the weight has stabilized brake hard while still in a straight line (engine brake also, another subject) and hit your mark on the turn. You should need little or no gas until after the apex of the turn. Smoothly apply pressure to the accelerator and away you go. Try this a few times. It feels great when you do it correctly.

Also, I disagree about only passing on a straight. The hairpin is a great example of this. If you are close behind someone going into the turn stay close (do not hit them) to pressure them, stay to the outside of them approaching the turn and do the old over-under through the hairpin. I agree though, high speed turns/curves are not a good place to pass.

Once more people get some of the basics down online will be a much better place to be.

Hahah. I'm sitting at work picturing that turn. One of the best on Suzuka (along with Degner, Spoon, 130R, etc. :) ) Similar to turns 2 and 3 (3 being the hairpin?) on Tsukuba (sp?).
Totally agree with the comments. I've managed to take out quite a fair bit of lap time just from getting that corner right (or adding heaps if i get it wrong!). I also use a DFP, and get some of the aforementioned feedback.

To the OP- top post mate. I've played GT since GT1, and only really starting to improve now with GT5:P. Managed to self-learn some of the mentioned techniques, but to hear them again will ensure I'll enhance them even more. :)
 
PlusP357, great stuff on corner rights etc, but you just triple posted. You're in big trouble!

Excellent stuff PlusP357 and I would share JackB's recommendation of those books, particularly the Skip Barber one, best book I have ever owned of the subject of racing and set-up.

JackB is also right, please don't double or triple post, but rather edit your last post if no one has posted after you.


Thanks

Scaff
 
I try alot to do these things, but alot of times when I am in front of an idiot when I slow down for the turn I end up in the grass from getting rear ended... It annoys... :ouch:
 
Great thread, should be changed to tips and should be stickied!
Great stuff!
Right now the races are boring most of the time.
Amother tip is to download a game save if you want to race online. you really need the best car for that particular track or else it's useless, don't even bother.
 
Some great driving tips there. With GT5:P's better physics model, real-life tips like these are becoming more and more relevant. 👍
 
Excellent tips, and if any one who reads them only takes one to heart, it should be slow in fast out. You will be surprised how much better you will race if you just learn this one.
 
Back