On-Track Action: Driver Mentality

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GT Planet, here is another thread about GT4 racing.

As we know, racing games in which all the drivers race on rails and are perfect are wholly unrealistic. There are racing games where drivers make NOT ONE MISTAKE on the track. Games which want you to face nameless racers with precisions of Formula One racers isn't realistic. At times, I've seen in Gran Turismo 2 where a driver spun out during an endurance race. I was in my Tommykaira ZZII (remember, GT2. Mid/rear drivetrain), and a Ford GT40 Road Car spun out and I had to dodge that driver (even though I lapped him). Oh, and another thing. When I raced the "Stars and Stripes" event, I seen all these American cars, and then this one dude has a Corvette C5R, and I backed out because I didn't want the race to be one-sided. After all, I'm supposed to be in the powerful cars blowing out everybody like a college football game (remember OU blowing out Texas A&M 77-0?)! :)

Anyhow, do you have any considerations to make racing more interesting, so that you are not facing perfect racers? I say if you're racing powerful, modified street cars, you shouldn't expect to have Derek Bell or Boris Said challenge you to race after race. Likewise, even if you did Pro-level GT World Championship racing, "even monkeys fall from trees" as someone said on GTPlanet. So it goes both ways. What are your recommendations in terms of how the pack races?

One consideration is to have some rivaling racers. You know, have a racer battle someone for position much like that one lap at Homestead in the Grand-Am series. I think I even remember a JGTC race where the Raybrig NSX spun out into the grass at Fuji and while he was spinning out on the wet grass, he'd get back on track. He'd be facing the wrong direction, and the front of the NSX met the front of the Nomad Lamborghini Diablo, and a hellacious crash occured. I felt that hit when I seen that on the show "On the Limit." I mean, racers shouldn't have to be perfect. Remember my "Losing" topic in the "Drifting and Other Motorsports" category? I'm not saying that every racer should make mistakes, but I think you should be able to make up for others mistakes if you choose to.

How about your suggestions for on-track action? And note how this topic doesn't mean anything like celebrations and pageantry.
 
As for on-track action, my consideration is splitted in just two ways:

- Ai drivers to react on my presence on track, and

- AI drivers to drive fast, flawless and not to bump into my rear end while I'm braking. No need for driver-flaws because I always hated cars that would spin around the track on every corner when they tyres would wore-out.

Great thing for strategy and on-track action (except for tyre wear and gas cosuption) would be oil-leaking on track in some certain situations, but I guess that will happen - one day.

That is more thean enough for me in offline racing.
 
The one thing I noticed in GT3 is that once you pass someone they seem to give up. The Al cars should try to come back on you, but not through you. That would make it more intense.
 
Originally posted by kart racer
The one thing I noticed in GT3 is that once you pass someone they seem to give up. The Al cars should try to come back on you, but not through you. That would make it more intense.

Actually, the AIs get to speed up if they start to fall to far behind.

I love quiters. As soon as you do something better than them, they whine like babies, and spout how you cheated. That is why I'm not going to race online. I had enough of that BS with my little baby brother. Plus, I'm pretty damn good at GT3.

It's a nice thing the AIs can't talk.
 
Of course, don't expect the AI to go at you saying "you cheated, you low-life son of a b*tch!" If GT4 wanted to be creative, they can have a mini-game where you beat the crap out of somebody after a race. I can recall the old NES game "Blades of Steel." It's a hockey game, so you know what that means? It means p*ssed off hockey action. In the 1987 (or 1988 maybe?) game, you bump quite into somebody, then you start fighting, then the referee says "fight!" Then after that, the players throw their hockey sticks down, and you just punch the crap out your opponent.

But... I don't think Kazunori would want to implement that into the game. That would make GT4 rated "T" for Animated Violence and Mild Language. Then, it can also be "E," but add words like damn and hell, it can be "T." Heck, I played MegaMan games were in the dialog later in the game, the word "damn" was used. But anyhow, if it is one thing I can't stand it's people who think you're driving too slow, so they bang into you as if you need a boost in going fast. I hate it when punks do that, and that especially happens in Tokyo Xtreme Racers Zero and 3. I'm like "am I going too slow for you?" So, PD will have to look into that so that I don't throw a fit and risk destrying some stuff in my room.
 
Originally posted by Solid Lifters
Actually, the AIs get to speed up if they start to fall to far behind.

I love quiters. As soon as you do something better than them, they whine like babies, and spout how you cheated. That is why I'm not going to race online. I had enough of that BS with my little baby brother. Plus, I'm pretty damn good at GT3.

It's a nice thing the AIs can't talk.

I beg your pardon but what on earth makes you believe that online racing is full of quitters and people like your baby brother. I'm sure we'll see league systems from either PD or websites like these that will pit able drivers against able drivers.

Now GT3 has this wonderful thing called iLink mode, which allows for 6 player racing each other on six different PS2s and TVs, just like online play will for GT4. I've been fortunate enough to meet up with lots of great drivers from 6 different countries and we've been having some awesome driving. Check out some results here: http://www.granturismo.de/rpc3 and http://www.granturismo.de/nl

From the looks of it, you're one of those quitters though, that would rather keep believing that he's pretty damn good, than go online and face reality. :trouble:
 
Originally posted by Arwin
I beg your pardon but what on earth makes you believe that online racing is full of quitters and people like your baby brother. I'm sure we'll see league systems from either PD or websites like these that will pit able drivers against able drivers.

Now GT3 has this wonderful thing called iLink mode, which allows for 6 player racing each other on six different PS2s and TVs, just like online play will for GT4. I've been fortunate enough to meet up with lots of great drivers from 6 different countries and we've been having some awesome driving. Check out some results here: http://www.granturismo.de/rpc3 and http://www.granturismo.de/nl

From the looks of it, you're one of those quitters though, that would rather keep believing that he's pretty damn good, than go online and face reality. :trouble:


First off, you don't need to beg.

Second, I see enough whining that goes on at those "Racing Competitions", both here and at other web sites, and I don't need any of it. I've already been acused of cheating, and have been demanded that I show proof of my great racing abilities, or I wont be believed. The crying of babies have already started, and I'm not even racing on line yet! And it will only get worse. So, why bother?

I can't quit, what I have no desire to start, now can I?
 
Originally posted by Solid Lifters
First off, you don't need to beg.

Second, I see enough whining that goes on at those "Racing Competitions", both here and at other web sites, and I don't need any of it. I've already been acused of cheating, and have been demanded that I show proof of my great racing abilities, or I wont be believed. The crying of babies have already started, and I'm not even racing on line yet! And it will only get worse. So, why bother?

I can't quit, what I have no desire to start, now can I?

I was talking about 'real' racing (it's not perfect, but a fair example can be seen at daan's site, which has two iLink videos - http://www.davidanderson.org.uk/ilink.htm .

But suit yourself. You don't present yourself as someone who's emotionally ready to change his mind nor as someone worth the trouble of trying to convince in the first place. :lol:

Seriously, I'm sure I could easily convince you by inviting you to drive with some of the great drivers out there that I've driven with 'live' (jmr, flinx, mr.p, made in holland, hugo boss, lotus350, to name a few) but since you've already said online driving isn't worth the price of a network adapter, I guess you'll never give me the change to prove you wrong. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Arwin
I was talking about 'real' racing (it's not perfect, but a fair example can be seen at daan's site, which has two iLink videos - http://www.davidanderson.org.uk/ilink.htm .

But suit yourself. You don't present yourself as someone who's emotionally ready to change his mind nor as someone worth the trouble of trying to convince in the first place. :lol:

Seriously, I'm sure I could easily convince you by inviting you to drive with some of the great drivers out there that I've driven with 'live' (jmr, flinx, mr.p, made in holland, hugo boss, lotus350, to name a few) but since you've already said online driving isn't worth the price of a network adapter, I guess you'll never give me the change to prove you wrong. :rolleyes:

What did I say that needs to be proven wrong? What do you need to convince me of?

All I said was I can't stand whiny assholes, and I don't feel like playing with, or against them. How the hell can I be wrong about that?

I have a feeling you're not getting what I'm saying, you crazy Dutch bastard! :lol: Kidding!

Hey, what town are you in. I used to live there, and I have many family members that live there.
 
Originally posted by Solid Lifters
All I said was I can't stand whiny assholes, and I don't feel like playing with, or against them. How the hell can I be wrong about that?

I have a feeling you're not getting what I'm saying, you crazy Dutch bastard! :lol: Kidding!

Hey, what town are you in. I used to live there, and I have many family members that live there.

You said: "... I'm not even racing on line yet! And it will only get worse. So, why bother?"

and: "I can't quit, what I have no desire to start, now can I?"

What I wanted to prove wrong is that on-line racing will mean driving against an increasing army of whining bastards and that you won't enjoy it because of them. You're not getting what I'm saying, is all I'm saying. :lol:

I live in Almere and work in Amsterdam ... :cool:
 
Uhhh, don't mess with Arwin when it comes to racing... :)

Whenever I'll see the names Arwin, flinx or Didi in a game, it'll prolly be time to switch servers to not be lapped...


Can't wait for GT4 (real) online racing. Woohoo!
 
I personally can't wait, even if I get beat by great drivers I'm sure it will still be a great race, and like I've said before, it's better to lose to a great driver, than to beat a crap one.
 
Originally posted by live4speed
I've said before, it's better to lose to a great driver, than to beat a crap one.

I agree 100%. But, it is completely annoying to win against a whiny little **** that accuses you of cheating. I'm not sure how this online racing is going to be operated, but I hate the idea of some bastard being able to lable you a cheater, simply because he thinks he's the best, and feels he shouldn't have lost.

I get what Arwin was trying to say, and what he is saying now. He said that online racing isn't what I fear it to be. That actually, there are no such thing as "whiny bastards." But, like what I said before, I looked into the idea of racing people now, via racing forums and at this place, and found nothing desirable about it.
 
PD just have to include gearbox failure in case of collision and serious tyre and suspension wear in case of shortening the track - toghether with time penalty - for online races.

That would be enogh to calm-down the peoople who have the need to cheat.
 
And in this corner........ I have never tried on line racing but will give it a try. I have also heard that there will be some kind of action taken for rough driving. A 1 lap pen. would work I think.
 
Originally posted by Solid Lifters
I get what Arwin was trying to say, and what he is saying now. He said that online racing isn't what I fear it to be. That actually, there are no such thing as "whiny bastards." But, like what I said before, I looked into the idea of racing people now, via racing forums and at this place, and found nothing desirable about it. [/B]

Well you're still not really listening. I'm not saying that there aren't any whining bastards out there, but that you don't *have* to drive them online.

First of all, online racing will pit drivers of comparable skill against each other. We see this in other online games on the PC and you can be sure that PD will bring this to GT4.

Second, even if PD wouldn't do this, with by far the majority of online games you can choose who you want to race. This means that boards will organise their own competitions, and serious boards like gt3times, racing line, granturismo.de and gtweb will be organising their own online competitions with strict rules about proper driving, with in the most important competitions probably referees present (GT4 online will have spectator options for sure, as GT3 already has the broadcast/live option in iLink mode).

In these competitions, you will be driving against people of comparable skill and they will be driving clean and fair. Those who don't will drop out of the competition, and thanks to the spectator option (which will very likely include an option to save the replays, but the spectator can record it on tape even if it doesn't) there will be no false accusations.

Note that I consider GTPlanet one of the less serious boards, even though there are plenty of serious drivers hanging out here, the kind of competition and strictness is currently not comparable to the other boards I mentioned. This is ok, it's also one of the more widely popular boards, partly because it is slightly less hardcore.

Anyway, it would be foolish to compare the current form of online racing with actual 'live' online racing, because there is less room for cheating and it is far more obvious if someone does cheat.

In all online racing I've been in so far (including some PC racing games), people have always managed to find a group of like-minded other drivers (or even players) to hang out and race with online, and I do not see why GT4 would be otherwise, or why you shouldn't be able to find your own group of like-minded people. That's basically all I'm saying (could have skipped all that I wrote before this paragraph, but since I typed it I guess I"ll just leave it there :D).
 
And if you look for dedicated and grown-up racers, visit racesimcentral.com .


Awesome board, extremely well handled by mods and users with 45.000 registered members and a small PS2 population that will probably grow with GT4.

Really, at least give online racing a try, preferably with people you know (at least online) and trust somewhat.
 
Well after playing Half Life online for about 4 years or so, I've experienced plenty of 'whiny' ****s. Most often in public servers, if you don't want to deal with these best thing to do is just to stick to organised 'events' such as races in GT4 (or matches in HL). I mean yeah even in clans & GT4 racing teams you'll still experience some 'whiny ****s' you can just ignore them, or do as I do and take it as a compliment if they call ya a cheater :lol: :trouble:

The advantages of racing online outweigh the disadvantages, aslong as the game itself is good of course.
 
people unable to face the fact that they just lost will always exist in all aspect of competition , games, sports etc.

Im looking forward to drift online with people and put up a good show.
 
Now, since this penalty thing will be in play, what happens if OTHER DRIVERS bang into you like you're a piece of crap compared to the other car? Like I ran a race of the "Dream Car Championship" in an FTO LM for GT3. Everybody bangs into me like I'm a street thug. So when it comes to offline, I think if we drive aggressively, we get penalized. But offline, the punk who rams and sideswipes you should have their speeds governed 10 seconds like we would do.

But my opinion doesn't matter. How about yours?
 
To continue talk on penalties, it looks like the other drivers still seem to bang into each other, based on the Hong Kong video I've seen with the JGTC race cars. But there isn't as much "beating and banging" (as you NASCAR folk would say) as there used to be. So a solid plus to GT. Unintentional ramming would be an interesting point. Like, say you miss your braking point, you try to brake hard, and then you spin out the guy/girl ahead of you. Do you get the penalty? Or was it just a racing incident? What should the mentality of racers in GT4 be?
 
Good point.The system should be able to tell if you are trying to avoid a crash by the amount of brake used and if you tried to steer clear but still hit a car.That should be a racing incedent and no pentally aplied.
 
They've got this aspect of the AI about right in Toca Race Driver 2 - the AI does make mistakes, and you will see collisions between AI cars. I've had one ripper at Bathurst where I came over the crest of hill to find one car pointed the wrong way and another up the road with its face kicked in.

Another good feature I've seen lately was the 'pressure meter' feature in R:Racing, where a driver would make mistakes when put under consistent pressure - it worked a bit too obviously, with the meter visible and hearing the comments from the other driver, but the concept was pretty sound.
 
I think statistics logging like in NFSU should be implemented, so if you can't find a group of people you know (as will likely be the case for us Australians dealing with American members sleeping) you can see how other have performed in the past, whether they disconnect, what car they've selected to use. Some general things like that will help you identify who's a worthy opponent and who's going to be a boring, irritating waste of time.

I think that scenario you listed John, about missing a braking zone and colliding, that should earn you a penalty - in a real race (assuming your car survived the collision) you'd probably be awarded a penalty for reckless/dangerous driving.
 
I wonder if it's true that the Playstation 2 can't handle the Race Driver 2 A.I.
I read on some boards that that is what's holding up the release of RD 2 on PS 2.That kind of A.I would be perfect for GT.Everytime i play Race Driver 2 i am amazed at how good the A.I is.
They act like real drivers,it's incredible.As for Online racing in GT 4,having a point system wouldn't be bad.Each time you win a race you earn more points,that way you can see who a good driver is.
 
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