Coming to America: Starring the Toyota Aygo

  • Thread starter Thread starter YSSMAN
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YSSMAN
...As for the Fit versus the Civic, thats a bit tough. I generally consider the Fit to be the "true" Civic in the Honda lineup myself, more of a successor to the CRX of yore...
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That I agree with, at least when it comes to target market and size. The new Civic is way too big to be considered a real city car. But the main problem is that the current crash & safety regulations force a very different type of car at that size compared to 20 years ago. You can't have your butt skimming 6" above the ground in a glorified tin can. With so many SUV's and other oversized sedans out there you'd be dead with your head at the same level as their bumpers.

I guess after 15 years of hatches as boring as the Golf IV, the Fit probably is quite fun. I haven't driven the Fit yet, but I've been inside. It's far and a way a better-made car than the CRX I'm considering. But it's too well made, if that makes any sense. Too much sound insulation, too competent a suspension, too soft steering...it all adds up to a car that insulates your senses from the road. In a small car with low power, that connection is all you have.

Besides, 40MPG for US$2,000, and it's fun! How can you beat that? :D
 
harrytuttle
:lol:



A company that really would have success is Renault. There, at least, is a company that can make city cars fun. The Clio has been pretty darn good for the last...um, umpteen years. Even Peugeot's 206/207 would be decent here. It would be perfect competition for the Mini, another successful sort-of city car.
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Not in the US, there's still too many people alive who remember the R5 (LeCar) and the Alliance who will promptly warn would-be buyers.


YSSMAN
The Rabbit will never live up to the legend of it's predecessor that shares the same name, that is indeed a certainty, but you have to give the current car some credit.

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The 1975 Rabbits and Siroccos came to the US with really crappy smogged carbueretors. The only thing that kept VW in the US was that the US built cars at the time were far worse qualitywise. Even later Rabbits were far more maintenance than their Japanese competitors. If the new Rabbit is half that bad VW might as well say goodbye to the US market.
 
I test drove a Fit. It was rubbish. And, the dealer wanted $16.5 K for a base and $19.5K for a sport.

And I drive a small car, an Impreza, and I used to drive a tiny car, a '90 Civic 2 door hatch. That Civic was loads more fun than the Fit was. The Fit is slow beyond belief, tippy, and sounds like rubbish. Somehow the old Civic managed to feel slightly faster and handle worlds better. The only nice things I found in the test drive were an airy interior and nice dash lighting/materials. Oh yes, the seats were unsupportive as well (contributing to the overall feel of tippiness).

And the Fit is supposed to be the best of these small cars. I'm disappointed.
 
skip0110
I test drove a Fit. It was rubbish. And, the dealer wanted $16.5 K for a base and $19.5K for a sport.

And I drive a small car, an Impreza, and I used to drive a tiny car, a '90 Civic 2 door hatch. That Civic was loads more fun than the Fit was. The Fit is slow beyond belief, tippy, and sounds like rubbish. Somehow the old Civic managed to feel slightly faster and handle worlds better. The only nice things I found in the test drive were an airy interior and nice dash lighting/materials. Oh yes, the seats were unsupportive as well (contributing to the overall feel of tippiness).

And the Fit is supposed to be the best of these small cars. I'm disappointed.
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This reminds me of myself comparing my old '85 Maxima to the current '04 Altima. How could a car built by the same company almost 20 years later suck so bad? :lol: Maxima was a joy to drive. Handled like a little sports car(it was much smaller though), and it was fun. My Altima is as fun as the Honda Odyssey to drive. OK, I lied. I'd rather drive Odyssey(with AT!).

$19,500 is ridiculous. Unfortunately, as long as the supply shortage continues, that puts the dealer in total control. Fit must be as profitable as a loaded Accord for the dealers right about now. :grumpy:
 
KAMKA-Z
The 1975 Rabbits and Siroccos came to the US with really crappy smogged carbueretors. The only thing that kept VW in the US was that the US built cars at the time were far worse qualitywise. Even later Rabbits were far more maintenance than their Japanese competitors. If the new Rabbit is half that bad VW might as well say goodbye to the US market.
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Certainly so, but that didn't stop the people from buying them. Quite frankly, as long as they kept the VW buyers happy, they made the sales they needed. The Rabbit was an enormously appealing car... She was cheap, efficent, fun to drive, everything a Volkswagen should be. Added to that, many of them were built in the United States, adding to the whole "Buy American" deal that was going on at the time.

...Certainly it was the GTI that made the car the legend that it is today, and it can be argued that it has always been the case with the Golf/Rabbit here in the US.

Today's Rabbit is still an awesome car. Its pretty fun to drive, if anything a bit on the heavy side, and offers plenty of the classic VW feel that keeps the fans comming back, and bringing in new ones. Of course, I'm spoiled by nostalgia, longing for the A1-A3 chassis models of yore...

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skip0110
The Fit is slow beyond belief, tippy, and sounds like rubbish. Somehow the old Civic managed to feel slightly faster and handle worlds better. The only nice things I found in the test drive were an airy interior and nice dash lighting/materials. Oh yes, the seats were unsupportive as well (contributing to the overall feel of tippiness).
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Which model did you drive again? I really can't see the sport version being all too like that. Every test I had read-up on the car had said that it all felt quite composed, and was quick enough to keep most people satisfied... Its still faster than my car, so I'd call it quick.

...And I agree on the interior, which is argueably the best part of the car. Build quality is excelent, IMO better than the current Civic, and the seating setups for various cargo situations are great. But, I must respectfully disagree on the seating, as I found them to be quite comfortable.

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a6M5
Maxima was a joy to drive. Handled like a little sports car
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Like a 4-Door Sports Car? Remember their "4DSC" stickers?

...I miss the old Maxima as well...
 
YSSMAN
Which model did you drive again? I really can't see the sport version being all too like that. Every test I had read-up on the car had said that it all felt quite composed, and was quick enough to keep most people satisfied... Its still faster than my car, so I'd call it quick.

...And I agree on the interior, which is argueably the best part of the car. Build quality is excelent, IMO better than the current Civic, and the seating setups for various cargo situations are great. But, I must respectfully disagree on the seating, as I found them to be quite comfortable.
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I drove a strippo base...the only test car they had. I guess you could call it "composed" but it was in no way sporty (it was just a test drive, but I got the feeling that if I kept pusing it would wash out into understeer very quickly). It could keep up with traffic, but you have to keep the rpm's really high and the noise isn't too pleasant (as far as I recall the base and sport have the same engine ~110 hp). It might be faster than your car (Jetta if I recall) but all the power is inacessible and the sound, to my ear, was not a typical Honda whirr but more buzzy. All in all I was hoping for more of a go-cart feel like the old small Hondas had.

I was test driving for my Mom who wanted to buy. If the price had been closer to the MSRP (~13K ??) we would have bit, but for $16 K she decided to pony up the extra $3K buy an Impreza like mine.

And just to clarify the seats were comfortable the way a chair is but didn't do much to hold me in. I wouldn't mind being there for a while as long as it was a straightish road and I wasn't trying to keep up with Mass highway traffic.
 
@ skip0110: Ah, now I understand!

...How about those markups, eh? They've been pretty bad here too. Not only has the release of the car seemed to be rather slow, dealers really are pushing the prices. I think the sport I looked at was marked up well into the 17 or 18K range, all of the option-boxes checked, the dealer adding a bit more to the price.

But, when you've got demand for a product without a large ammount of supply, you can make deals such as that and people will buy into it. Then I walk down the street and look at the Kia Rio5, save a couple thousand dollars, and get a better warranty...
 
skip0110
I test drove a Fit. It was rubbish. And, the dealer wanted $16.5 K for a base and $19.5K for a sport.
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The idea is to show them over 100 sources with the MSRP a full 3 to 4 thousand dollars less than that and keep on saying "Yaris" and "Rabbit"
and possibly even"Versa". My dad used this technique while buying our TL, I heard him say "Audi A4" more times than he did "TL" then, I heard him say 11% financing and somthing cracked, my dad started laughing at him, and said "I'll be back from Smithtown Acura in a half an hour and Tell you how nice my TL is!" Then I showed the shrewd devil the MSRP at around 34K and he had at 36K, and he was so flabberghasted it was kinda like this: :grumpy:
 
exigeracer
Either way, that little game of car-soccer looks like a blast. I want to try!
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Now, if they can advertise with that episode they may have a bit more sales. Perhaps some billionaire will start a City Car Soccer League! :lol: Round one: Toyota Aygo v. Smart ForTwo!

:lol:
 
MatttheTuner
My dad used this technique while buying our TL, I heard him say "Audi A4" more times than he did "TL" then, I heard him say 11% financing and somthing cracked, my dad started laughing at him, and said "I'll be back from Smithtown Acura in a half an hour and Tell you how nice my TL is!" Then I showed the shrewd devil the MSRP at around 34K and he had at 36K, and he was so flabberghasted it was kinda like this: :grumpy:
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Thats a great story. Although I have never had a problem with our local Acura dealer with anything, Honda dealers are the worst with making deals. Which is odd, because the Acura and Honda dealer here in Grand Rapids is owned by the same motor group, and yet the dealers are completely different.

...I'm sure I've told the story at some point about the folks that had the audacity to attempt to charge us $2000 more for a Honda Civic EX Coupe over a Mazda 6i, the Mazda even being similarly-equipped compared to the Honda...
 
I didn't have much leverage because I was haggling for cars on the lot (which were all over optioned). My mom wanted to drive away tomorrow.

The other Honda dealer (which I've known for a while) was much more honest, and just said straight up that "all the Fits are way over MSRP" and suggested a Civic.

Anyways, I think I settled for a better car.
 
Demand and supply do play a huge role in car deal making. IMO, as long as the gas prices stay high, it is a bad time to buy a Honda. Honda dealers are selling so many cars right now, they could care less if you go out and buy from "Brand X". Toyota's the same way. It's funny how Toyota and Honda dealer advertisement often goes, "we want you to feel comfortable, we won't pressure you!". They don't have to. :lol:

As for Mazda 6 and Honda Civic thing, since the dealers doesn't have "set price"(MSRP is B.S.), price can change depending on who you talk to, when you go there, how long the car you are looking at has been on the lot, etc., etc. Best way is to shop around(like Matt's dad). Most dealers want you to make a deal, right then & there. You can used that to your leverage, and ask for lower price and in my case, more options. :D

When I shop for cars, I try to make friends with the salesmen(you'll deal with at least a couple, including a manager). But if you are not frustrating them a little bit(again, like Matt's dad), you are getting ripped off.

This has been my "New Car Buying Guide 101". :lol:

skip0110
I didn't have much leverage because I was haggling for cars on the lot (which were all over optioned). My mom wanted to drive away tomorrow.
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That is the worst way to buy a car. When you have to have your car right now, that puts the dealer in total control. I've been there before though. :guilty:

skip0110
Anyways, I think I settled for a better car.
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Did your mom get a Civic then? How did you do on the deal? I think Civic is a great car. I think it's as big as the old Accords(from early-mid 90's), and still gets the Civic fuel economy. 👍
 
a6m5
Did your mom get a Civic then? How did you do on the deal? I think Civic is a great car. I think it's as big as the old Accords(from early-mid 90's), and still gets the Civic fuel economy. 👍
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She got an Impreza 2.5i Wagon :)

I test drove a Civic and it was a nice ride but the interior was a little out there and having a hatch/wagon was one of the higher priorities.
 
...It is good to be friends with the people who run the dealers, isn't it? Added to that, having a family history there is good as well...
 

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