Online - Unplayable until format changes :(

Rapidone

Am I the only one that likes playing bumper cars and clean racing aswell?

Don't race in the begginers section if you dont want a rough race.

You just need to learn how to defend yourself and think strategically if you want to survive in begginers class.

And don't expect a car that is set up to run on a knife edge for ultimate speed to be any good in a rough race.

Two different games and both are welcome.

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Gran Turismo was never and never will be a "bumper car" game. Go play Burnout or something for that.
I have nothing against collisions and I'm always up for Touring Car style battles, with many bumps and scrapes, however, intentional shunts and forcing people into barriers has no place in this game. And before the predictable "its a simulator, shunts happen in real life" argument, yes, and in real-life they would be black flagged and retired from the race, unfortunately, we are yet to see flag rules come into GT, so we'll just have to make do with stricter rules.

I think allowing people to have their bumper car fun in the first place is just inviting them to come on the Intermediate and Pro races and smash everyone thinking its fair game to shunt and bash. I'm with the crowd that feel we should be harsher and stricter with upholding the rules on this one. I certainly still want collisions in but I think a better penalty system should be put in place, or wait till damage.

I have to say I disagree with the poster. I too have had some great races.
Racing in real life is a skill one that you learn through years of driving real cars in a real environment.
For starters you MUST play GT5P using a steering wheel of one sort or the other. Sure there are several incidents where I have been punted off the racing line or sent flying into no mans land. But thats racing, it happens! Thereafter you just need too get your car back on track, in the right gear in order to head out again. With respect if you haven't got complete control over the vehicle by way of manual gears and steering wheel you'll always be at a disadvantage and with a pad alot less likely to be able to react correctly if you are nudged by another vehicle.
Sure there are occassions where frustratingly I have been pushed off during a critical menourver or even been in first place pushing for the line but so be it. Its part of the draw of GT5P too outsmart those that can't drive to save there lives and with experience like me you'll all be doing it.
So stop windging, get with it and play more and gain experience.

I just got the a license today and so far I'm pleasantly surprised by players in the pro races, caused a few accidents myself due to still being a bit crap and spinning, unintentional sideways action etc
but none of the nonsense that was in almost every beginner race I played online

Disagree that the online racing is 'unplayable'.

I was getting irritated by the beginner races, a good 50% of the drivers there could go on the black list and the other 25% are just rubbish and crash all the time causing massive accidents, but once you get into the Intermediate and Pro events then the standards are much higher. You still get idiots, but they rarely win because they end up so far behind the genuinely good racers.

The only trouble then is that the idiots ruin the race if they're hosts and they quit because they're losing. It hadn't happened to me at all and then it happened three times today with different drivers.

is there a definite way to tell if you're the host ?

homeforsummer

Disagree that the online racing is 'unplayable'.

I was getting irritated by the beginner races, a good 50% of the drivers there could go on the black list and the other 25% are just rubbish and crash all the time causing massive accidents, but once you get into the Intermediate and Pro events then the standards are much higher. You still get idiots, but they rarely win because they end up so far behind the genuinely good racers.

The only trouble then is that the idiots ruin the race if they're hosts and they quit because they're losing. It hadn't happened to me at all and then it happened three times today with different drivers.

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I'm not with the people who say online is unplayable or who can't stand even the most accidental of bumps, however, there are many drivers at the PRO events who are good drivers, so they keep up with the so called "genuinely good drivers" but they still bash, ram, shunt, etc.
Yes, there are less of them, but there are still quite a few about. Generally though, they seem to stick to the easier tracks, like Daytona and High Speed Ring because the few I've encountered on Suzuka and Fuji have spun out and quit on the first few corners.

I think the car collision physics needs adjustment. Cars bounce off each other like snooker balls, even with a minor bump / nudge.

I will always stick to time trials for the very reason... I thought it was bad even before the points system, now it's absurd. Time trials is where you find the best competiton......yourself.....

Havok_

I will always stick to time trials for the very reason... I thought it was bad even before the points system, now it's absurd. Time trials is where you find the best competiton......yourself.....

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Well the time trials are also full of people with fastest times gotten by smashing into bariers at certain points instead of driving clean laps. Kinda ridicolus that you can get faster times by crashing into walls, and driving on, instead of taking the clean line. I really hope they will fix these kinda things soon with and update or something.

scabbyhorse2

is there a definite way to tell if you're the host ?

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When it's loading a online race it says 'Joining race' or 'Creating race', maybe the last one means you're the host

I don't think we should remove contact. It's a part of racing, and I'm ready to excuse some involuntary nudges, and expect the same courtesy from others.

But not using the brakes, braking on the inside using other drivers as "shoe horns" is a deliberately hit and is not racing. I agree that these morons will always exist, and we must try to keep them away with those private rooms.

As far as the penalty system:
- hitting a barrier gives you a penalty, but wall riding doesn't??
- Also, when you are slipstreaming and try to overtake some one in a straight, deliberate change of direction and contact should give out a 10 second penalty.
- Cars facing the wrong directing, parked on the track, or swinging out of control should be removed from contact for a loooong time, until they get back on the right direction and gain some decent speed. People just don't respect others and go around for miles trying to recover control of the car no matter at what or who's cost.

hornet_burnout

As far as the penalty system:
- hitting a barrier gives you a penalty, but wall riding doesn't??
- Also, when you are slipstreaming and try to overtake some one in a straight, deliberate change of direction and contact should give out a 10 second penalty.
- Cars facing the wrong directing, parked on the track, or swinging out of control should be removed from contact for a loooong time, until they get back on the right direction and gain some decent speed. People just don't respect others and go around for miles trying to recover control of the car no matter at what or who's cost.

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2nd that, yesterday I had someone doing the direction change on me on the long straight on Fuji 3 times in a row, confronting him with his behavior resultat in a response like, drive better and you're laggie, now the first might be true, but I had a higher speed coming out of the last corner so .... the second argument is a very strange on, I kept records and it turns out that I'm hosting about 90% of all the race I enter .... Hmmmm, makes you wonder.
Now on his first two attempts I managed to recover, but on the third he succeeded, resulting in a position drop for me from 2nd (should have been 1st) to 8th, now I was hosting the game and I realy did'n't want him to take home the win on this race, I couldn't help myself ending the race, so sorry for all other contestors in this race!
Now I want call names but I know I'm canceling any race he's in in the futere, as soon as there will be private races, I'll make sure he's not in any races I enter.

You're point about the people crashing because of driving different lines is a bit harder to implement I guess, different cars or even setups often result in different lines, now who's to blame if there's any contact, sometimes I take a wider line than others to be able to get the car straight earlier so I can hit the throttle faster, now if someone (behind me before the turn) takes the inside line and hits me coming out of the corner side by side, who's to blame for that, me for braking early in order to get out faster or with more grip, or my opponent taking a "smoother" line. I think it's very hard to judge wether he is (or I am) doing this just to take out the opponent. I think 90% off this kind of situations are just to be called racing incidents, if the speed difference is not too big, both cars can easily recover. However, allmost everytime something like this happenes the car taking the wider line and thus getting punched by the car behind him is the one getting the penalty.

I mean those situations like you have more than a second lead over a pack of equal cars (Integra for instance, in beginner, HS Ring), you're taking a smooth line into corner 2 slowing down around to 180k, and bam. Eight cars come in to your left door, doing speeds that take them all into the barrier,even after slowing down from impact on you. That's not taking a different line, it's... well actually it's nothing. These guys should get a looooong penalty, and be left unable to leave the race until it's completion.

Many times you get away clean, and even if one or two go by, you overtake them later, or they make some stupid mistake, other times you get turned around and can't recover, other you get penalties. But anyway, that's not clean racing, or even racing at all... so it should be heavily penalized.

Since cars are more or less evenly matched, removing from impact cars with very (VERY) different speeds entering a corner, especially if the car is the same, would solve this. But "moving chicanes" would have to be considered while working on this issue...

On high speed ring, the problem isn't that big, apart from the wrongly given penalty, try suzuka, now being bashed all the way through a big box of kitty-litter, it takes me about 15-20 seconds to get back on the track, having a lot less grip the first few corners, so all-in-all I'm loosing about 30 seconds, now in that amount of time I can go allmost round one quarter of the track with my Ferrari. It's hard to be sporty to the good ones in the race and to not quit the race than.

At one occasion I was braking late for the first corner on Suzuka, drifting a little to the outer edge but still under control, half way round ... BANG .. got smashed all the way through the kitty-litter into the barrier not able to get out for 4 additional settings since I was the one getting the penalty, all I said was "now, that's rude". My wife sitting next to me laughing, after a while asking: is this a racing game or is it destruction derby (she does NOT play racing games, doesn't even know a thing about it or racing in general at all. :-)

One thing I noticed is that sometimes you can't really prevent collisions.
Sometimes I see a car "ghosting" around a corner, mainly because you gain "stealth mode" if you start to spin out too fast.
But you stealth also if you powerslide a bit, so when I see the car before me that goes ghost, I just keep my line and go on.
Then the ghost car just mistically appears ON me, just a few inches before my car, exits ghost mode and I either crash into them or bump them to crazy speeds.
In many cases you screw somebody's race even if you try to play fair.

I dared Suzuka once. Got some fair racing with only 3 other guys, spun out and finished 3rd. So I didn't dare to go back, and certainly won't do it on a Sunday afternoon...

As for the "ghost mode", that is what sometimes allows you to keep/recover your line and press on. But sometimes, you go from 180 to 60 because one of them turns "solid".

I guess my point is, it needs some work, but I still like it... it's usable.

But I'm 36 and have 2 small kids, so I guess my "level of zen" is a bit above normal. I understand when people say they loose their cool or decide not to go online anymore.

3 strikes(bumps, corners cut, r-tard behavior etc) and that player gets automatically kicked.

If/when private lobbies come, the host can of course set this number. Anything between 1 and infinite(unrestriced) amounts of violations to get kicked. The penalty system of course needs some tweaking with this, but it shouldn't be a problem. Also add it so that the wrong doers(is that even a word?:E) cars lose control(spin out, lock steering etc). This needs alot of tweaking to work too but as it's Prologue i'm sure it's enough time to tweak the code for the final game.

This is of course only my personal opinion, with this the burnout kids will get tired and quit. You don't have to speak retard to get your point through to these people. Harsh methods work well and will force people to learn to drive and behave on the track.


I don't like the idea of being ghosted(no car interaction) since it removes a vital thing in racing: Tactic. If you just can drive through every car on the road, you remove the, in my opinion, important tactics of blocking and overtaking at certain positions of the track and this will make narrow city tracks boring, dull and pointless as an example.

Well, after almost a month of GT5P online, this sums up my opinion onthat and how to improve on it:

1 - Dirty players online. They will always exists. Period. Steps PD can take to minimize that:
1.1 - Private rooms (same will slip in, but most will be filtered)
1.2 - Personal 🤬 list (where you'd race on general races, but not against those people)
1.3 - Wall riding and bumper cars. Penalties system must be improved. For instance,
- the harder you hit the wall, or the longer you ride it, the more the penalty will increase.
- the more penalties you accumulate, the longer they will be
- if two cars make (medium +) contact BOTH players should be penalized. Even if one is (almost always) innocent, that also occurs nowadays and it would prevent wrong doers from getting away clean as sometimes they do today. Eventually, contact would be avoided at all cost.
- the form of the penalties MUST be changed also. You can't be weaving out of control in front of everyone else, because you don't have throttle control anymore. Player should be black flagged and forced to pit in. If in the last lap, a time penalty should be applied. Thats how it's done in real life, and this is supposed to be the real driving simulator.

2 - Hosts quiting. Steps PD can take to minimize that:
2.1 - When start is pressed, display a msg on screen with something like: "YOU are hosting the race, quitting will end race for everyone and bring online playing sanctions! Continue/auto pit/quit"
2.2 - If a host still quits, he would have to sit the next race out as a spectator (for instance...) or other sanction.


EDIT: Latest online news, Online Event Update Notice on Thursday 1st May. Maybe this will address the "other" issues. PP balance and tuned/non tuned races. More balanced races we hope.

slicecom

Wow, I'm thankful I've never run across anyone quite THAT horrible online. What a douche.

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I have. The worst I've seen so far is Muggles (I wonder if they're related?).

I believe PD is somewhat responsible for creating an offline racing environment that encourages crazy driving to win. Combine that with no damage and many GT veterans have gotten used to bashing the hell out of the AI. They get online without voice chat and just keep up their single player tactics.

Hopefully, with voice chat and hosts coming, we'll see much cleaner racing. It can't come soon enough for me, because I'm just about to break out Forza 2 again. After a couple hundred hours, I was ready for something new and different, but I can only take so much. I'm not ready to quit yet, but we need some online fixes in a bunch of areas.

1. Voice Chat
2. Public and Private rooms with a host that can kick.
3. Rooms with host selected laps, aids, ghosts/no ghosts etc.
4. Eliminate the magical ghost/no ghost crap. Too much indecision about who is/isn't a ghost and when they'll go solid.
5. Add damage and ditch the penalties for crashing. It's often given to the wrong driver anyway.
6. Fix the lag issues. There is way too much lag compared to other online racing games.
7. Count online lap times on leaderboards.
8. List more than the top 100 on leaderboards. How about the top 400,000? Or better yet, have a friends filter, so you can find their times.
9. Show the names of the trailing cars, so you know who the maniac is behind you.
10. Allow for a toggle to see on your hud the differential in time/distance for the cars in front and behind, so you know if you are closing the gap etc.
11. Can the rolling starts. It's ridiculous. Standing starts are proven to work fine. It takes way too long to catch up from the positions in the back.
12. If you don't have host options at least allow for online races longer than 3 laps.
13. Give some different options for the starting grid. Performance points is currently the only sorting option.
14. Show us who the host is at the beginning of the race, so he/she knows they shouldn't quit.
15. Don't change the physic's for online. My G25 has a different feel online. Much less force. Overall, the physics just seem different online.
16. Kill the online boost. Rubberbanding online is embarassing. We're not all kids. At least not all of us.
17. Allow for some form of "respect" or "Don't matchmake me with that lunatic again" option or something.
18. Don't disband the lobby after the race. Allow us to race again together or even *gasp* select a new track and stay together.
19. Show us our top lap time for our online race, not just total time.
20. Show penalty points for each driver after the race and leave the screen up for longer. It disappears immediately after the last driver finishes.
21. Keep track of wins/losses etc.

OK, that's all I can think of off the top of my head, but when I can rip through a list of 21 items, there is a long way to go to match other online offerings. I have a bunch of offline stuff too, but I'm more concerned with online.

Everytime I hear someone say, "All I need is XYZ feature and online would be perfect" it makes me cringe. If PD thinks we only need "One feature" for online to be perfect, we're doomed...

I'm hoping for much more, because there is potential, but man does PD have a lot of work to do in the next year. Forget the 700 cars and their interior views. They need work on the basic blocking and tackling of the gameplay, IMO.