Four Hours: The Nürburgring 4Hr Companion & Competition

mechyboy27

Don't do the Tesla. Once it runs out, you can't refuell and you're stuck at 50mph for the race.

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I forgot about that.

I remembr seeing somewhere that the CRZ runs out of battery power and you're stuck running on the tiny engine.

Send me a friend request and I'll send you an S2000 all tuned up for the ring.

s2k2k3

I remembr seeing somewhere that the CRZ runs out of battery power and you're stuck running on the tiny engine.

Send me a friend request and I'll send you an S2000 all tuned up for the ring.

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In terms of "gifting" or sending cars to others, do you keep the car or do youy literally give it to a friend?

And thanks. I'll try and do that within the hour, if not then tomorrow.

bonobo4

In terms of "gifting" or sending cars to others, do you keep the car or do youy literally give it to a friend?

And thanks. I'll try and do that within the hour, if not then tomorrow.

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You literally give it away. But you can keep it and give it away both if you want to do a save/restore. That's commonly called "duping" around here. But it's too much trouble in this case. I'll just give you the car. I only have about 20 S2000s.

so today I did some testing with mine ARTA Garaiya GT300 '08 and from what it looks like, it can be a very close race. I just did the 1st lap with the easiest field and I could open 4 secs to S2000 GT1 '04 and to the HPA TwinTurbo TT when you enter the long straight then both would eventually pass me by the end of it and I would repass them by the chicane. The car lose to the others on the straights, but I can repass them and open some gap with the turns (the car hands like a dream on the RH tires, can't wait until I put some RS on it!)

bonobo4

In terms of "gifting" or sending cars to others, do you keep the car or do youy literally give it to a friend?

And thanks. I'll try and do that within the hour, if not then tomorrow.

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I sent you the S2000.

Before I sent it I ran a couple of laps at the ring and opened a lead of 45 seconds on the HPA TT (on race medium tires). The tire wear wasn't too bad. It used 11 liters for the 2 laps (5.5 liters per lap). Just drive it easy. It will do the job if you don't push it past it's limits.

s2k2k3

I remembr seeing somewhere that the CRZ runs out of battery power and you're stuck running on the tiny engine.

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Actually not true

When you aren't using the gas (between shifts, braking, just coasting) the battery recharges on its own

Also, screw the dream car championship, its distracting me from grinding ferrari seasonal to unlock Nur4

My cr-z makes me feel guilty about not using it :C

Gazumagi

Actually not true

When you aren't using the gas (between shifts, braking, just coasting) the battery recharges on its own

Also, screw the dream car championship, its distracting me from grinding ferrari seasonal to unlock Nur4

My cr-z makes me feel guilty about not using it :C

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There's no such thing as free lunch The recharging didn't work for the seasonal we had a couple months ago on the Tokyo track (ran out of juice on the fourth lap) so I assume you'll hardly make one lap on the Nordschleife. Also physics dictate that by recharging you would use up additional fuel. Interesting idea, but it won't work.

ItsHim

There's no such thing as free lunch The recharging didn't work for the seasonal we had a couple months ago on the Tokyo track (ran out of juice on the fourth lap) so I assume you'll hardly make one lap on the Nordschleife. Also physics dictate that by recharging you would use up additional fuel. Interesting idea, but it won't work.

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Have you actually tried it?

The battery doesn't last a whole lap by itself, but the recharging (given that you occasionally lift off for some turns instead of just braking) gives you small chunks of electric powering, which in turn gives you amazing gas mileage. Combine that with the CR-Z's extremely light tire usage and you can get 7 laps before needing to pit

You don't need to recharge the battery fully to make it get used again, which means the real engine gets to take a break every almost-half a lap =3

Gazumagi

Have you actually tried it?

The battery doesn't last a whole lap by itself, but the recharging (given that you occasionally lift off for some turns instead of just braking) gives you small chunks of electric powering, which in turn gives you amazing gas mileage. Combine that with the CR-Z's extremely light tire usage and you can get 7 laps before needing to pit

You don't need to recharge the battery fully to make it get used again, which means the real engine gets to take a break every almost-half a lap =3

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Well I did run 5 laps on Tokyo for the seasonal and on lap 4 the battery was empty and thus I lost about 2 seconds a lap. Besides there was no chance regaining meaningful amounts of charge. If GT has moddeled this correctly one should not get anything out of it because you simply don't get 'free' electricity. Just think of the time you spend wide open throttle on the track and if that doesn't kill all efforts Döttinger Höhe will.

I did take an economy run into consideration but I don't think it'll work out and with the Honda you'd probably be stuck with the petrol engine most of the time. But don't let me stop you proving me wrong

Famine

The Prius, Insight and CR-Z use regenerative braking - any time you are not on the loud pedal, the batteries scavenge energy from the deceleration of the car, converting kinetic energy into charge. If you really want to get into the swing of driving a hybrid properly and quickly, there's a challenge in GT4: Prologue to help you out.

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Terribly sorry for derailing this thread, and in fact I would like to see fuel economy taken to the leaderboard, but this should not work in GT as it doesn't work in real life.

One can scavenge a bit of the energy wasted by braking which otherwise would get turned into heat. But by simple coasting, you should not be able to gain energy "for free". In real life I would welcome that for stop-and-go traffic, but not on a race track where I run with an inferior car and have to make every corner count because to opposition outruns me on the straights (guessing this will be along the sub 450pp line).

If a car coasts, there's friction which will slow it down. If you turn the electric motor into a generator, it needs some source of power to produce electricity - and thus slows the car down even more. Factor in all kinds of losses - and you'll have a negative balance.

Now I could think up a scenario where you'll gain some time nevertheless (or outweigh the losses by efficiency < 1): if the power and gearing of a car forces it to travel at 139 km/h in 3rd gear as there isn't enough torque to climb the hill at 144 km/h in 4th gear, then the saved energy actually would help and be put to good use. But with the CR-Z, one can't use the additional power boost at will so that'll be a real challenge on any track, never mind on the Nordschleife.

I must say this recharging while coasting business irritates me a bit, and I have assumed the petrol engine is using the rest of partial load to recharge the battery. I don't actually know how GT5 models this, but I do hope it's close as can be to real life.

So, no, I can't see this being of any benefit in the "low pp" 4 hours race.

Sorry again for being so off topic...

ItsHim

If a car coasts, there's friction which will slow it down. If you turn the electric motor into a generator, it needs some source of power to produce electricity - and thus slows the car down even more. Factor in all kinds of losses - and you'll have a negative balance.

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That's exactly what occurs - whether engine braking or friction braking, the car recovers energy. It's not a significant amount and it's certainly not going to get you far in a 4 hour race, but it allows you to lean out your battery usage over a shorter, sprint race.

(I should add that by "coasting" I meant rolling in gear, rather than freewheeling in neutral; they're interchangeably used quite often)

Famine

That's exactly what occurs - whether engine braking or friction braking, the car recovers energy. It's not a significant amount and it's certainly not going to get you far in a 4 hour race, but it allows you to lean out your battery usage over a shorter, sprint race.

(I should add that by "coasting" I meant rolling in gear, rather than freewheeling in neutral; they're interchangeably used quite often)

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I did a quick 3 lap test with a 415 pp CR-Z and got 9:51 to 9:47 lap times and shredded my front RS tyres because I ran flat out basically. Döttinger Höhe depleted my batteries, by Adenauer Forst I got the electric motor back until Mutkurve and from the start of lap 3 again. I used 19 litres of fuel and was dead last.

Then I parked for 5 minutes but despite the symbol showing I got no sufficient charge back. Maybe time was too short, but I guess coasting (both travelling at constant speed or letting the car roll or, indeed idle while at a stand still) doesn't recharge the batteries.

As far as I understand it, with hybrids (petrol engine and second electric engine) one uses the electric motor(s) to decelerate the car - so the motor works as a generator while slowing the car. You don't want to use friction from brakes as this just gets turned into heat and the energy is lost. Also the petrol engine is seemingly not used at all to charge the batteries.

I'll try another car with similar stats on the weekend, but I assume in the end against this competition the maths wont work. When I did some other test runs on sport tyres I found tyre wear a much bigger concern than fuel consumption, so I put this thought away for the moment. If I really have to go for a 4 lap strategy fuel is only my second problem

However it would be a good idea for an online race to see who comes first in an all CR-Z field.

Amuse R1 on sport soft at 480PP. 1121kg 280hp



Lineup
HPA FT565
Mines '00
Amuse GT1
NISMO 400R
HPA R32
HKS CT230R
Amuse R1 - me
NISMO GT-R R-tune
NISMO Fairlady Z A-tune
Mines '06
Grand Turismo Skyline
Amuse 380RS

This isn't a race, it's a brawl. I'm on lap 5 and I have not been out of sight of at least 1 AI car for more than a few seconds. I've been changing positions multiple times per lap as the stronger AI passes me on the straights and I pass them back on the curves.

Early lap 5 I'm 3rd 36 seconds behind the Amuse GT1 and a Nismo Z. I expect I'll make time on them this lap since their tires are probably worn more than mine. I hope...

This one will be close. Victory is no certainty.

UPDATE:

I don't plan to do lap times or detailed play-by-play. I just want to drive and enjoy the race. I will post total race time for me and as many AI as I can.

Lap 12 Dottinger. I'm feeling pretty confident of the win now. I pitted on lap 5, took 20 liters and came out 4th behind 3 cars that didn't pit. Process of elimination says it was the 2 Amuse cars and the HKS. They pitted on lap 6 and I took the lead. They cut into my lead a bit but I held the lead through lap 11 when I pitted again and took 20 liters again. I came out 13 seconds behind the GT1 and am now 13 seconds ahead.

My pit schedule is 5-6-5-5-5. Tire wear on the 6 lap run was pretty good. I have been running in tire conservation mode most of the time. My best lap up to now has been 9'00.9 with a little help from a draft on Dottinger.

2 hour mark passes 45 seconds ahead of don't-know-who, as I turn into the Arena on lap 14. Does this mean I'll be doing a 27th lap? Probably not. I will have longer pit stops in the second half now that I've burned off my surplus fuel.

At the beginning of lap 15 (42 second lead) I'm paused and going to bed.

Continued:

At the end of lap 25 I crossed the line with 9'45 to go. Since I don't have enough fuel to do a 27th lap I know I'll be waiting at the finish line. I have a lead of 1'20 at this time and I know the #2 car will pit this lap so I have plenty of margin.

After the 5-lap sequence cars pit I have a gap of 2'20 to what I presume is the CT230R.

With 34 seconds to go I hit the brakes and wait. The #2 is 2'17 behind.

After the clock expires I cross the line. Yes it's the CT230R in 2nd.

I had one great lap when I ran 8'59.7 with no draft. All other laps were 9'0X unless I pitted. Maybe 1 or 2 in the low teens on worn tires.

At my stops I took 20 liters, 20 liters, 35 liters, and 45 liters.

My total race time is 4:00'01.7

CT230R race time ~4:01'40

Clearly 480PP is still a bit much for the R1 on SS tires. Once we cycled through the first pit stop it was clear the race was mine. I never lost the lead except the one lap after I made my 2nd stop before the Amuse made his 2nd stop.

Looking at my car after the race I find the hp has dropped to 267 and PP has dropped to 473. Obviously I am in need of an oil change.

EDIT:

In a quick test of the GSXR/4 at 470PP on SS tires I ran a 9'03. That's as quick as I was running in the R1 at 480PP. But I think I've run this car enough. Other cars are calling. I'm thinking 3400S.

EDIT 2: Yes definately 3400S. I did a test at 475 on SS tires and I'm a couple of seconds too slow so I guess it will have to be 479 (gotta beat my own record). Stock suspension was chewing up the front tires so I broke down and put a sport suspension on it. And a sport exhaust so I could hear the engine.

I also did a test run with the Cappuccino RM. It doesn't like curbs. At all.



Yeah, I have a thing for yellow.

s2k2k3

I also did a test run with the Cappuccino RM. It doesn't like curbs. At all.

Yeah, I have a thing for yellow.

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Completely diferent from my ARTA Garaiya lol it likes alot of curbs, they even help him make the turns better

Small race report :

Toyota FT-86 Concept '09
206pk (203BHP) / 1200kg
410 PP

Finished and won the race in 4 hours and 35 seconds. 2nd = S2000 GT1, about 45 seconds behind me. Fastest laptime 9:03'750.

I'm ready to put out a theory. I have made enough test runs and real runs now to see a pattern (I think). It seems that the Audi LMS and Amuse GT1 Turbo are likely to show up if you come to the race with a car over 480PPish, and unlikely to show if you come with a car less than that.

It doesn't appear that there is a hard cutoff but just a swing in the odds.

s2k2k3

I'm ready to put out a theory. I have made enough test runs and real runs now to see a pattern (I think). It seems that the Audi LMS and Amuse GT1 Turbo are likely to show up if you come to the race with a car over 480PPish, and unlikely to show if you come with a car less than that.

It doesn't appear that there is a hard cutoff but just a swing in the odds.

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Hmm? I swear the lineups are always fixed in place after you reset. It's why everyone uses the lineup you see in the reports with the CT230R, TT, Z-Tune etc. Besides which the GT1 Turbo shows up in the 2nd lineup anyway. However I did notice something while doing races for my fanfic...

The first couple of lineups are always the same, no matter what track you are on. Even the colour of the cars stay the same. However, I got the lineup I wanted, but did the race, only for me to forget to save the replay. I reset the game to reset the lineups, but I kept trying in the same pink LFA I used before but the lineup I got before never showed up. However, before my first attempt, I had tried to set up a different scenario using Arcade but that didn't work. So I think that if you go into Arcade Mode it seems to mess up the lineups, either that or after a number of lineups have been done, the game selects the cars in the race at random. It's all really confusing, I know...

I have seen different lineups every time. And I have seen others say you don't get the LMS the first time, but I have gotten the LMS more times than not on my first attempt.

Got the LMS for the second time today and I've run at least 20 test runs whenever I felt like doing so. Can't really make out a pattern tied to restarts, pp, tyres either.

s2k2k3

I have seen different lineups every time. And I have seen others say you don't get the LMS the first time, but I have gotten the LMS more times than not on my first attempt.

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Maybe it's different between regions. I have a PAL version by the way, so Famine would probably know as well (mind you he knows everything). However the lineups I get are when I do it before starting any other race (after starting it up of course). Also bear in mind I haven't found the R8 LMS myself yet, just the S2000 GT1 Turbo quite a number of times...

Famine

I've not logged the subsequent line-ups quite so thoroughly, but I know the second has the GT1 Turbo

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I believe I logged the 2nd lineup in one of my tests when looking for results as to how well the ISF RC actually does. No colours in it but I know the S2000 GT1 Turbo is red. Not that it matters

And in fact here it is.

1. RUF CTR2 '96 - some sort of yellow if my memory recalls correctly
2. Lexus IS F Racing Concept '08
3. Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06 - not sure, probably a white or blue
4. Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo - red
5. HPA Motorsports Stage II R32
6. Amuse Nismo 380RS Super Leggera
7 (player)
8. Amuse S2000 GT1 '04 - Any of the three colours it comes in - really can't remember which
9. Nismo 400R '96 - red if I recall correctly
10. Nissan Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R '01
11. Amuse/Opera Performance Gran Turismo 350Z RS - dark blue if I recall correctly
12. Opera Performance 350Z '04

If I re-boot my console, I'm always getting the same lineup that Famine gets:

Famine

....
Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R V-Spec N1 Base '00 (white)
HPA FT565 Audi TT (orange)
Amuse S2000 GT1 '04 (white)
Nismo 400R '96 (black)
HPA Stage II R32 (silver)
HKS CT230R '08 (red)
(player)
Nismo Skyline GT-R R-Tune R34 '99 (red)
Nismo Fairlady Z Z-Tune Z33 '03 (gray)
Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 Base '06 (millennium jade)
Nissan Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R '01 (GT red/white livery)
Amuse Nismo 380RS Superleggera (white)

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And the colors are always the same as noted above.

I have not really studied this because I've generally just taken on all comers except for the Amuse S2000 Turbo and the Audi R8 LMS. I do get the impression that the lineups do appear in some sort of set order.

Respectfully,
GTsail

I decided to try my luck at this with a Ford RS200. I did some tuning, but no Turbos.
Its stats:
HP: 271HP
Weight: 1180kg
PP: 451

I started out the race with the "usual" suspects as you gentlemen have been pointing out. I got shuffled back to 10th with a slow start, but after the arena, I was back up to fifth. I was going to do a 4 lap sequence to save a great 2 lap run for the end. I was able to get back up to 4th and trading off with the Skyline in 5th down the straights. I found out quickly I was going to get killed around Kesselchen because I could only muster 127-130mph. (BTW, I did change the gearing, as the stock was set for a top speed over 190). I also got annihilated down Dottinger. During the first hour I was about 30 seconds behind with the extra pit stop.

The second hour ran with a few run ins with the Amuse S2000 with it's unadvised 6 lap strategy, it would run out ahead and then lose it's muster and be dangerously slow. I found myself marred in 5th about 45 seconds behind at half-way.

The third hour came to a close with a realization: I was not going to have a chance with the extra pit stop (I usually didnt have an issue as tires always made the difference). I had counted on the extra pit stop for minimal fuel loading on all pit stops. At about 2:45, I had to make up my mind. I was in 3rd about 50 seconds behind, and so I decided I'd pit on lap 21, quickly figure out the fuel load needed, then really run the RS200's tail off. The emerging lead foe was the HPA TT. I knew he'd pit on 20 and 25, so I was going to have to time this right.

Entering the 4th hour, at around the 3:15 mark, I pitted for the final time. Took a 38 liter load of fuel, and a new set of Racing Softs. At the first trap after the arena, I was 38 seconds behind. I was clear of third by a decent margin, so I only looked forward. The lead grew to 40 seconds, then 48 seconds, then 55 seconds. It finally was 1:01 at the stripe starting the last lap. When the HPA finished its stop it wasn't too long before he took back the 6 seconds he gave me. He caught me around Kesselchen. I figured he would have as he came into sight heading into Bergwerk. He made small charges, but with my cornering cancelling out his power, and stayed about .6-.8 seconds back. I knew if I was going to win, I'd have to be aggressive. I slipped a little around eiskurve and that slowed me some, so he was right on me. Coming out of Galgenkopf he was riding my bumper, so I used it to my advantage, he pulled a bit to the left, and I followed. We essed ourselves down the straight, and I was able to get some distance heading up the hill and into Hohenrain. Charging towards the line, the HPA made one more dash to my right, but didn't have enough. I won with his front bumper at my door. 4'01:33.

Famine

If I boot the console up and don't do anything that would allow a day to pass, my first line-up is always:

Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R V-Spec N1 Base '00
HPA FT565 Audi TT
Amuse S2000 GT1 '04 (white)
Nismo 400R '96 (black)
HPA Stage II R32
HKS CT230R '08
(player)
Nismo Skyline GT-R R-Tune R34 '99
Nismo Fairlady Z Z-Tune Z33 '03
Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 Base '06 (pale green)
Nissan Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R '01
Amuse Nismo 380RS Superleggera

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C-ZETA

I believe I logged the 2nd lineup in one of my tests when looking for results as to how well the ISF RC actually does. No colours in it but I know the S2000 GT1 Turbo is red. Not that it matters

And in fact here it is.

1. RUF CTR2 '96 - some sort of yellow if my memory recalls correctly
2. Lexus IS F Racing Concept '08
3. Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06 - not sure, probably a white or blue
4. Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo - red
5. HPA Motorsports Stage II R32
6. Amuse Nismo 380RS Super Leggera
7 (player)
8. Amuse S2000 GT1 '04 - Any of the three colours it comes in - really can't remember which
9. Nismo 400R '96 - red if I recall correctly
10. Nissan Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R '01
11. Amuse/Opera Performance Gran Turismo 350Z RS - dark blue if I recall correctly
12. Opera Performance 350Z '04

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Considering I seldom (if ever) go straight to the 4-hour race when I boot up I have no experience with fresh boot-up lineups. However, I just did a boot-up test and I got the same lineups as above. So my theory dies a horrible death.

On the other hand I now know how to get an "easy" lineup any time I want it.

My first try was this car:Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06.
oppenents was:
Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R V-Spec N1 Base '00
HPA FT565 Audi TT
Amuse S2000 GT1 '04 (white)
Nismo 400R '96 (black)
HPA Stage II R32
HKS CT230R '08
(player)
Nismo Skyline GT-R R-Tune R34 '99
Nismo Fairlady Z Z-Tune Z33 '03
Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 Base '06 (pale green)
Nissan Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R '01
Amuse Nismo 380RS Superleggera

Maybe too powerfull this mines car. I have to go pit every 4 laps. I used first race soft. Then race medium one stint and rest 6 stint race soft. In the end i was behind leading car 1.30. Last lap starts leading car goes on the pit. First i'am 4, then second and finally leading. The clock shows remain time is two minute. I'am making good lap. This would be nice win. But i have been bad in math. My fuel ENDS:tdown:. One by one they pass me. In the end i was 10. My best lap was lap 6 time 8:47.

Not much seeing another cars. I go pass them whit good tires and they go pass me when i have bad tires. The car was good drive. In race medium i get 8:58 and softs 8:47. And lots of learning this Green Hell track 👍 Next time i put fuel tank full 👍

Ps. there were only 47km in mines car distance after this race?? it really should been more.