Suspension Tuning Gains

  • Thread starter Thread starter CSLACR
  • 49 comments
  • 3,832 views
Track: Nurburgring Nordschleife (sunny)
Car: Lexus LFA '10, new from dealership
Tune: Full weight reduction, full Engine tune, LSD, drivetrains, Titanium Exhaust. Custom Tranny, FC Supension for Stock testing, and modified FC testing.
Mode: Practice
Grip reduction: Real
Tires: R3 , Racing Softs.
Driving Aids: only ABS 1, rest 0 / off.
G25 wheel, Manual paddle shift, Bonnet View (Viewing from front hood of car)

Lap Time, FC suspension stock: 7:20s (the default high camber and default high spring rates and dampers, makes this car almost undrivable)
Lap Time, FC suspension tuned (my first tune, yay!) 6:39s (slashed all default values by more than half.)

Saving: 41s
 
Lambob
Track: Nurburgring Nordschleife (sunny)
Car: Lexus LFA '10, new from dealership
Tune: Full weight reduction, full Engine tune, LSD, drivetrains, Titanium Exhaust. Custom Tranny, FC Supension for Stock testing, and modified FC testing.
Mode: Practice
Grip reduction: Real
Tires: R3 , Racing Softs.
Driving Aids: only ABS 1, rest 0 / off.
G25 wheel, Manual paddle shift, Bonnet View (Viewing from front hood of car)

Lap Time, FC suspension stock: 7:20s (the default high camber and default high spring rates and dampers, makes this car almost undrivable)
Lap Time, FC suspension tuned (my first tune, yay!) 6:39s (slashed all default values by more than half.)

Saving: 41s
Click to expand...

Only 41 seconds? I could easily make that up in the draft...lol.
 
BradKinder
Aerodynamics makes up for a 1 second difference in qualifying time. By far. Please stop arguing with common sense.

CSL, you get some good times at the trials. Good for you. That's hard work. Please understand that in real races, like I like to do several times a week... A one second difference in qualifying means absolutely nothing. This guy is wrong, and a newbie.

A time difference large enough to defeat the aerodynamic drafting advantage is something worth talking about. One point something seconds out of a 87 second lap is only 98% of the default FC suspension lap time. I suspect that you'll need much better 95% to defeat the aerodynamic drafting advantage.
Click to expand...

So lets put this in simpler terms.
There is no drafting in qualifying newbie,only when the race starts,so much for that thought.
1:33 seconds gain in suspension setting,my areo package gearing,blah,blah,blah,is better than yours and I'm drafting you which wouldn't happen anyway because I'm 1:33 seconds ahead of you.
Who wins the race?
Not you!
 
Lambob
Track: Nurburgring Nordschleife (sunny)
Car: Lexus LFA '10, new from dealership
Tune: Full weight reduction, full Engine tune, LSD, drivetrains, Titanium Exhaust. Custom Tranny, FC Supension for Stock testing, and modified FC testing.
Mode: Practice
Grip reduction: Real
Tires: R3 , Racing Softs.
Driving Aids: only ABS 1, rest 0 / off.
G25 wheel, Manual paddle shift, Bonnet View (Viewing from front hood of car)

Lap Time, FC suspension stock: 7:20s (the default high camber and default high spring rates and dampers, makes this car almost undrivable)
Lap Time, FC suspension tuned (my first tune, yay!) 6:39s (slashed all default values by more than half.)

Saving: 41s
Click to expand...
I'm not gonna lie, I'd prefer if you take a few extra laps and get something solid down for more solid results, but it does go to show how much you can gain in terms of reliability on top of extra speed.

Added Onboy and Lambob tests to OP's.
I have one with a Miata to come later today, intriguing results too.
 
CSLACR
I'm not gonna lie, I'd prefer if you take a few extra laps and get something solid down for more solid results, but it does go to show how much you can gain in terms of reliability on top of extra speed.

Added Onboy and Lambob tests to OP's.
I have one with a Miata to come later today, intriguing results too.
Click to expand...


Good day Ms.C,

please explain "if you take a few extra laps and get something solid down for more solid results"

I've driven only but this track for four evenings straight with the car, I can lap the Nür consistently within 1 to 2s margin, (if no mishaps, clean)

Although, I haven't driven it at Stock FC much more than to be honest: 2 laps.
 
Johnnypenso
@60 mph, 1 sec=88 feet
@150 mph, 1 sec=220 feet

In my experience, the draft kicks in right around the 1 second gap. On shorter straights it won't affect you much, but on a longer straight, like say at Grand Valley, assuming your car is as fast in a straight line as the guy you're following, you can usually make up the entire gap if you are around 1 second behind on the straight to begin with. The closer you are the more dramatic the draft effect appears to be, but I'm not sure if it actually is more enhanced, or if being so close to the car in front just makes it appear so.

Also in my experience, a 1 second difference in qualifying usually means game over, assuming it's a true qualifying lap and not a quick lap due to time constraints where someone can go faster but made a slight error. Sometimes guys can keep up in the draft, but because they are usually slower through the corners, they find themselves lagging at corner exit, and catching at corner entry, but rarely with enough gusto to get by.

One bobble on their part, they fall back 1 second or so, lose the draft and it's bye bye. The person who is 1 second faster, is smoother, makes less mistakes and is more likely to run a perfect race. Done it hundreds of times online. A qualifying gap of 2 seconds or more and it's not even a contest.
Click to expand...

I mostly race around 450pp but dabble with 400-500pp. Everything Johnny mentioned here is true. Sometimes I challenge myself with slower cars and 1 second is the cutoff. If a car is 1 second slower than another car, it needs to be very close in the draft to keep up and will never be able to pass unless the other driver makes a mistake. 2 seconds off and you'll be left in the dust after half a lap. If you are within 1/2 second after a reasonable amount of time qualifying, your car is good enough for the win, provided you drive as clean as the pole sitter and know when to make your bid for the lead.
 
Lambob
Good day Ms.C,

please explain "if you take a few extra laps and get something solid down for more solid results"

I've driven only but this track for four evenings straight with the car, I can lap the Nür consistently within 1 to 2s margin, (if no mishaps, clean)

Although, I haven't driven it at Stock FC much more than to be honest: 2 laps.
Click to expand...
Err, yeah I said that wrong.:lol:
To rephrase, "If you can, please take a few extra laps to get something solid for the stock FC settings."
 
BradKinder
Aerodynamics makes up for a 1 second difference in qualifying time. By far. Please stop arguing with common sense.

CSL, you get some good times at the trials. Good for you. That's hard work. Please understand that in real races, like I like to do several times a week... A one second difference in qualifying means absolutely nothing. This guy is wrong, and a newbie.

A time difference large enough to defeat the aerodynamic drafting advantage is something worth talking about. One point something seconds out of a 87 second lap is only 98% of the default FC suspension lap time. I suspect that you'll need much better 95% to defeat the aerodynamic drafting advantage.
Click to expand...
You should be bothered to check if I might not be involved in any racing series before you imply I don't know how lap times relate to actual races.

BTW, Onboy and most everyone that posted in both these threads are about as far from newbies as they come, I'm actually on the newer side of tuning then most everyone here.
While we have many disagreements on different strategies here, when we all agree on something you can sleep well knowing it's true.

And you should know, I've/We've tuned for much less then 1 second gains, but rather, .001 second gains.
 
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Mazda Eunos Roadster (NA Special Package) '89
Côte d'Azur
Power: 244 HP (Stock Car With Listed Modifications and Oil Change) - This Number Will go Up with Engine Break In
Engine, Intake, and Exhaust Modifications : All Allowed
Turbo and Supercharger : Supercharger Allowed (Turbo Not Allowed, Verifiable by Watching HUD in Replay Theater)
Engine Power Limiter : N/A (Car Meets Event Regulations With All Allowed Parts and Maximum Power
Oil Change : Required - This specifically refers to the oil indicator light. If the oil light is on during your replay, your lap will be DQ'd.
Weight: 831KG
Driving Aids: Optional (Skid Recovery Force Disabled in this Game Mode)
Transmission: Optional - OK to alter individual gear ratios and final drive ratio
Aero: Not Allowed
Tire Type: Comfort Soft (N3's)
Other Modifications: Optional (Chassis Reinforcement, Transmission, Drivetrain, Suspension)
In Event Tuning Settings: Optional - NOTE: Any tuning gimmicks that offer an unfair advantage are not allowed. These would be things like the Subaru Toe Bug found on GT5 Prologue.
Click to expand...
Taken straight from the WRS event that created the car for this tune.

Online, all aids off, (ABS1) tire wear/fuel on.

-20 / -25
4.5 / 3.7
1 / 2
1 / 2
2 / 1

1.0 / 0.5
0.00 / 0.00

Lap Time Stock FC Suspension: 1:53.360 (Ran this after event)
Lap Time Tuned FC Suspension: 1:52.721
Time Difference: -.639

The best thing this tune did was make the car virtually uncrashable, and minimized tire wear extremely. Time gain was just an extra bonus.:)
The stock tune actually benefited from the excess power, which wore the rears down quicker despite strong under-steer, once the rear wore down a bit the handling straightened out, but the rear didn't have the grip on exit left to keep up.
Over the course of the race I estimate my saved time to be roughly +/- 30 seconds. (26 Laps, 1 mandatory pit) On a longer race or without mandatory pit the gains would escalate quickly.
 
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A second per lap can be pretty big in a 5-10 lap race but I was expecting pretty big gains on average, much like onboy and his nsx on the top gear test track. It appears the base settings pd has given aren't as slow as they seem in some cases, just a bit harder to drive. Now to see what the LSD does all by itself:D
 
Does anyone have any good suspension setups for DTM car Audi TTR around Rome? My current best time is a 1.05.480sec I would be happy if I could get a low 1.04.
 
savage388
A second per lap can be pretty big in a 5-10 lap race but I was expecting pretty big gains on average, much like onboy and his nsx on the top gear test track. It appears the base settings pd has given aren't as slow as they seem in some cases, just a bit harder to drive. Now to see what the LSD does all by itself:D
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It will depends on the car, track, among other things.
If offline without tire wear, the gain for the Mazda would be at least 1.0, maybe as much as 1.5, and/or less hp could easily cost it more time by the rears not wearing out quicker and evening the ride.
I think this is very close to the minimum gain we will see.

Time_Attack
Why are you setting the cars so soft?
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Well I've only submitted one so far, but I went soft because it worked.
It was bouncy with stock settings, so I softened it to just below sports suspension settings which worked out nicely for the chicane without sucking around the rest of the turns.

toyotsupra
Does anyone have any good suspension setups for DTM car Audi TTR around Rome? My current best time is a 1.05.480sec I would be happy if I could get a low 1.04.
Click to expand...
I think I have one in my garage, I'll try to dig it out then.
 
Time_Attack
Why are you setting the cars so soft?
Click to expand...

Don't be afraid of soft suspension settings. They can work very well for certain cars under certain conditions. I find an awful lot of setups are far too hard for me. I was quite surprised at how well my Rally Pug ran on tarmac (405PP on Sports Medium tyres, it'll do 8:30s in my hands around the 'Ring, 8:45s on Comfort Softs. You can knock a good few seconds off that with a better driver than myself). Not only are the springs very soft, but it's jacked right up in the air too. Seemingly contrary to how you would expect suspension to be setup.

I'll be looking into softer setups more often in the future...

{Cy}
 
NASCAR's at Daytona moving at 221mph the gap at which you lose the draft is 1.2 sec. I've done numerous races one on one and once I hit the 1.2 or farther back split, the car behind me could not keep up.
 
I typically run soft-ish spring rates with stiff shocks and lots of sway bar. Was your lack of camber and toe due to the endurance nature of the racing you do?
 
Time_Attack
I typically run soft-ish spring rates with stiff shocks and lots of sway bar. Was your lack of camber and toe due to the endurance nature of the racing you do?
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I avoid using toe whenever possible, especially when tire wear is important.
The low camber firstly improves tire wear but secondly I've found with softer suspension and slippery tires lower camber works better then high camber.

On racing softs with race cars I'll usually end up at at least 2.5, but lower for races for wear.
 

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