Four Hours: The Nürburgring 4Hr Companion & Competition

Famine

Write-up to follow...

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Waiting with bait-ed breath...

(What can I say... I love the herring.)

So aaaanyway....

I ran it again today with the GSX-R/4 at 500PP on SS tires. I had a crazy idea I could beat the LMS at 500PP on SS tires. Well, maybe not.

So I decided to settle for a class win. My main competition was the Amuse GT1. I did the race in 3 stops. I didn't bother recording lap times or gaps.

I was just enjoying the new cockpit view. Wow. Simply amazing.

My race time was 4'07:32 for 27 laps. I really didn't get the gearing right. I had been hot-lapping at 530PP and tuned it down to 500 for the race. Unfortunately I didn't lower the gearing and the engine just couldn't pull the taller gears. I wasn't even shifting to 6th until I was almost at the end of Dottinger.

This car is just a joy to drive on sport tires. I was honestly getting chills when I was lapping at 530PP. But I figured that was too much for the race and turned it down. In retrospect I probably should have left it higher to go after the LMS.

The LMS was a lap ahead of me at 28 laps in 4'07:57.
The GT1 was a lap behind me at 4'00:49 for 26 laps.

Other cars times:
FT586 26 laps 4'01:32
CT230R 26 laps 4'02:58
380RS 26 laps 4'03:04

These race times are interesting because the LMS, GT1, 380RS, and FT586 are slightly faster than previous times but the CT230R is slower.

The ff/rw feature (not really a rewind of course) makes it TONS easier to get race times for the AI. Obviously the replay is broken into segments and you can skip forward and backward through the segments.

After an hours trial last night with a RM Evo, no added parts and a 60k ballast I found that it seemed to be a fair competitor. I split the power 15 - 85 in favour of the read and went out on SS.

It is the only car, so far, that I've noted to be almost on par with the front runners, in this case the Option Z and the HPA.

It's AWD system doesn't help with the slow corners because of the large amount of lift off over steer and in a race this long I'm certainly not hard braking late into the corner.

After 5 laps and a pit my fastest time was a 9:16 on lap 2 with massive amounts of hard driving and zero errors. I could have continued on with it but the car just isn't that fun to drive. Sure, it's not simple to corner in but it doesn't offer the challenge of something like OEM 2000 on SS.

I'm gonna try now this race with a completely stock Corvette ZR1... but first, time to see how much time my laps will be and how much my tires hold up..

Who said enduro`s are boring? I`m curious if you will ever get a closer finish doing this event. Hell of a job, well done.

Ras35001

Who said enduro`s are boring? I`m curious if you will ever get a closer finish doing this event. Hell of a job, well done.

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You could always slow down to get a photo-finish. But if you mean naturally then I highly doubt it. Closest I ever got was in the 1000km of Suzuka I won by just 35s after 6.5 hours of racing.

Famine

Race Report

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I have to ask. How do you manage such a detailed report Famine?

I tend to race with no HUD at all which doesn't lend to record keeping well, and pausing to make notes every lap distracts me big time, I've done it once before.

Another quick question - Do you run your laps with the HUD on to get the split times or just pull it up across the start finish line to check lap times and rival position?

I tend to only check it for tyre wear towards the end of every 4th lap. I feel the HUD takes away from some of the immersion.

Famine

I've only recently stopped racing with Coptercam...

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Are you kidding?!

It took me a few months of '5 to get into the cockpit view from bumper view on GT4. I couldn't no race without a cockpit having become so attached to it.

Whenever I do the endurance races, which is about once a week, I get lost in the game when the HUD is off and it's just engine and tyres making up the soundtrack. I'm tempted to have another crack at the 'ring tonight and see it further than an hour unlike the last few weeks of driving only around 7 - 8 laps.

I just suspended the race after my 1st pit stop at lap 6, was using a Lexus IS-F RM 602PP
my lap times are in average around 8:55 in 2nd place, at the 1st place was the audi R8 LMS with 1:22 gap, can I still win? I'm abit worried at the moment, but it was fun though.
People here says that if you lap time are below 9 mins, you will win easily?

Famine

Sub-9 minute laptimes will see you win easily unless the R8 LMS or Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo are in the line up. Then you'll need to go a lot faster.

Check the first post for average AI laptimes...

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oh dear, that means I only have like 10% chance of winning now heh

Famine

I'd say it's near 0% unless you can pull consistent 8'30 laps from now on.

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Okay will try it again next time without the amuse s2000 and the R8 duh

My fault for not checking the lap time of the audi before I started the race

Famine

I've only recently stopped racing with Coptercam...

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Wow. I am truly surprised.

But in my case I have always refused to drive any game without a wheel, or from any view that put me in any unrealistic position, like the roof cam or chase cam.

I had an hours run tonight in a 444pp Type R (EK), trying to match the Focus and it didn't go so well. Drew the GT1 Turbo in the line up. Best lap was a 9:11 something. Details to follow tomorrow when I sober up.

Did anyone else have the AI running out of fuel during this race?

I had a real tight race today, until lap 20 when I'm pitting at the end of this lap with a 2 sec lead over the HPA TT. I saved the race and shut down my ps3 to resume in the evening. When resuming I select my fuel load and then notice that the HPA TT didn't stop, but decided to start a 6th lap on his stint. As I was on a 4 lap stint strategy and the HPA TT usually does 5 lap stints this would pretty much screw up my race, as now he would only need 1 stop anymore, while I needed one more after my current one.
So for me there was nothing more left than to floor the accelerator and try to make up as much time as possible on my new tyres, while the HPA TT must have been on nearly complete toasted ones. That seemed to go quite well as I saw the TT lose its lead from 45 to 29 seconds by the time I reach the checkpoint before the Karoussel. A couple of turns after the Karroussel I suddenly saw a blue arrow crawling over the track and a couple of seconds later I flew past the TT: it had run out of fuel.

That pretty much wrapped up the race and I had an easy last 50 minutes, cruising to victory with around 1'45'' on the second placed car, a Mine's BNR '06 . The unfortunate TT finished 9th.

I'm wondering if anyone saw this before? I have no idea if this is because I saved the race at the moment the TT was supposed to come into the pits right behind me... The other cars that were on a 5 lap strategy pitted like planned on lap 20 as far as I could see.

Nonetheless this 4hrs of the Nurburgring is the most fun event by far in the game. I have been waiting until we had the mid-race save functionality to do it. First time was with a stock Nismo 380 RS on Sports Softs (came 2nd due to a few avoidable offs, 50 secs behind the HPA TT). This attempt was the second, using a stock BMW M5 '08 equiped with racing hards.

Well, I had a crack at this race on the weekend. After doing about an hour’s worth of testing on the wrong track (full 24hr version), I went to the type V track and started over.

Car Used: Honda Dualnote Concept ’01.
Tuning: Brand new car, oil change, sports exhaust, fixed sports suspension kit and 6 speed close ratio gearbox
Vital Stats: 411hp, 1400kg, 532PP. Started on SS tyres
The single lap test resulted in a lap time of about 9’09, so figured that would do the trick (based on Famine and GTSail’s observationings).


Lineup:
1.S.Jordan; Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R V-Spec N1 Base '00
2. V.Lindfors; HPA FT565 Audi TT
3. L.Cooper; Amuse S2000 GT1 '04
4. S.Pittman; Nismo 400R '96
5. A.Estes; HPA Stage II R32
6. E.Gaines; HKS CT230R '08
7. Barra333; Honda Dualnote Concept ‘01
8. N.Ballard; Nismo Skyline GT-R R-Tune R34 '99
9. P.Morelli; Nismo Fairlady Z Z-Tune Z33 '03
10. G.Crawford; Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 Base '06
11. W.Dudley; Nissan Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R '01
12. C.Holtzman; Amuse Nismo 380RS Superleggera


Lap 1: 9’14.642. Solid start, dropped a couple of spots, but with the rolling start, not nearly as many as if it was a standing start. Passed a few cars into turn one, then eventually settled into 3rd, behind the HPA Audi and the S2000. Dropped another spot on Dottinger to the BNR34 V-Spec. 9 seconds down

Lap 2: 9’06.334. Uneventful, except that I dropped another spot to the CT230R. Finished the lap 16sec behind the Audi

Lap 3: 9’11.534. Holding station in 5th

Lap 4: 9’23.992 + pit in. Tyres wearing pretty thin, I’m a bit worried about my ability to make them last 5 laps. It also appears that the battery thing in this car is there for decoration, I used 9 litres of fuel per lap, way more than I expected. Emerged from the pits in 10th, 1’11 behind the leader.

Lap 5: 9’35.610 + pit out. Everyone except the S2000, CT230R and the Superleggera pitted. Allowing me back to 4th

Lap 6: 9’06.511. Overtook the Superleggera as it was going in to the pits and passed the CT230R and S2000 while they were stationary. Had made ~40sec on them while their tyres were dying. Got overtaken by the Audi on the straight though and started lap 7 right behind him.

Lap 7: 9’08.068. 1hr mark passed 4’30 into the lap, with me running second by 4sec. Ended the lap 10sec down

Lap 8: 9’22.558. Crap. Dropped a tyre in the grass at Schwedenkreuz and spun, taking the Fairlady Z with me.

Lap 9: 9’33.326 + pit in. I begin to realise this may not end well. After 2 scruffy laps in a row, I pit for tyres, dropping me back to 10th, about 1’40 behind the lead. Rear tyres were completely shot, barely a sliver of tread showing on the gauge

Lap 10: 9’45.829 +pit out. Decent enough lap, considering it include the stationary time in the pit. The majority of the field pit at the end of the lap, but I only come back to 6th, 53sec down.

Lap 11: 9’09.085. Need more of these. Still 6th, +58sec
Lap 12: 9’09.937. Done

Lap 13: 9’33.392 + pit in. Now 1min down. Dinner time and a pending Rugby World Cup semi final mean I ask all drivers to park their cars on track to come back tomorrow. It has become abundantly clear that I cannot win in this setup. I decide that I will change to RH tyres to claw back the time. In the confusion of resuming the race however, I managed to fill the car with fuel and emerge from the pit with SS tyres on the front and RH on the back. Dammit.

Lap 14: 10’07.428 + pit out. This included an eternity in the pits taking on 74L of fuel, otherwise was an OK lap. Still 10th, 2’11 down.

Lap 15: 9’04.702. Happy days. Faster lap time and I don’t seem to eating the rear tyres as much. Made up some spots on pitting cars

Lap 16: 9.06.660. Finished the lap only 1’07 down thanks to others pitting on L15.

Lap 17: 9’17.209. A bit untidy
Lap 18: 9’17.190 + pit in. Tyres lasted much better this time out, giving 5 decent laps of grip. By virtue of all the fuel I took last time, I only took the 14L that go in while the new RH tyres are going on front and back. Emerge 1’57 behind.

Lap 19: 9’18.702 + pit out. Made up ground with the stickier tyres, ending the lap 1’41 behind

Lap 20: 9’01.848. 3hr mark passes 2’26 into the lap, with me in 7th, still trailing the leading Audi by 1’40. Finish the lap +1’37

Lap 21: 9’06.544. After another round of AI pitstops on lap 20, the gap has come down to 31sec. I cross the line 5th, behind the Audi, BNR34 V-Spec, CT230R and S2000, with the Fairlady Z right behind.

Lap 22: 9’10.616 + pit in. Last pit stop, emerge 1’11 down in 6th, with the AI all due to pit once more. Hopefully they stay in the pits long enough and I am consistent enough.

Lap 23: 9’23.117 + pit out. Still +1’06 and 6th place.

Lap 24: 8’57.103. Passed the CT230R and the very slow S2000 while they were making their way to their last pitstop. Making ground on the Fairlady Z.

Lap 25: 8’59.002. Another solid lap. Went under the gantry with 8’30 to go in the race, still 3rd having passed the Fairlady Z, but 47 sec behind the leader. Thankfully they pit, and I sail past for my first lead of the race, a mere 3 hours and 52 minutes after it started.

Lap 26: 9’07.xxx. Now to stay in front. Lead was 21.9 sec at the start/finish line of the Nordscheife. Keep it on track you nuffy! The 4hrs pass 7’48 into the lap and I managed to hold on for a ~15second win, my closest ever endurance race.


Apologies for the lack of detail, suspending the race cost me the chance to save the replay to mine for the said details. I do know that the Audi came second, with the BNR V-spec and S2000 in 2nd/3rd.

I think a win in this car may be possible on SS tyres, with some more car setup to get the 5th lap in. And a lot more consistency behind the wheel. Laps 4, 8, 9 and 13 killed off my chances on the sports tyres.

For this test I performed 1 complete tyre life cycle. (1 hour)

The car.

Honda Civic Type R (EK) '97
444pp
246hp
948kg
Tyres: RS

Modifications
Racing exhaust
Hight adjust suspension
Carbon hood & light weight windows
Racing flywheel & twin plate clutch
High RPM Turbo kit

Settings
ABS: 0
TCS: 0
Controller sensitivity: 7
MT / No HUD / Cockpit view (wide)
Power Limiter: 85%
Weight ballast: 60kg

The main aim with this test was was to find out if a FF Type R could compete for the full four hours and make a top spot finish. The factors involved tyre wear, top end speed and of course handling characteristics. 444pp was chosen so that some comparison can be made between the Focus RS and the Civic Type R at equal pp value.

The Competition
1. S2000 GT1
2. FT565 Twin Turbo Audi TT
3. BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 Base
4. CTR "Yellow Bird"
5. 350Z (Nismo)
6. Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R
7. Shem's Type R
8. G37
9. Fairlady Z Z-Tune
10. S2000 GT1 Turbo
11. CTR2
12. Nismo 380RS Super Leggera

Lap 1
From the start the Civic is clearly underpowered compared to the rest of the field. The high end turbo proved a good decision giving the Civic the benefit of maintaining the power-band and avoiding low revs.

The Type R makes it by the BNR32 into 6th at Hockeichen and keeps a steady pace with the Few cars ahead, losing no more than a few seconds around lap 1.

The FF layout shows no sign of trouble yet as the soft tyres keep both ends going exactly where they should be going. Across the line the Mine's passes but the place is retaken at the first corner with a bit of late braking. The chase begins.

Lap 2
The GT1 Turbo has made it's way through the pack in to 1st, knocking every one down a place. The Civic drops to 7th. After the first corner tussle with the Mine's BNR34, it continues to fill the rear view mirror until Klostertal where it's top speed is no match for the little Type R. He sails by without much of a fight. The Civic meets 8th for the first time.

Lap 3
Across the line the Mine's has pulled 5 seconds on the civic. At Kallenhard the "Yellow Bird" is passed while it performs its usual ballet routine almost taking out the Type R in the process. The FT565 seemed to have had a big off at Eschbach which put the Civic on its tail for the rest of the lap until the straight.

Lap 4
Somehow the Type R is promoted to 6th across the line and continues the rest of the lap alone with a small error made at Bergwerk causing the loss of a few seconds.

Laps 5 & 6
The tyres begin to fade and lap 5 sees a very reserved circuit, not a lot of action besides losing 2 places due to driving cautiously. Being a test run, no pit stop was made at the end of lap 5 to test how far the tyres would stretch. Needless to say the cars performance on lap 6 was atrocious and could be likened to a shopping trolley in the bends. The remained of the field, now on fresh rubber made their passes resulting in an 11th place position for the Civic at the end of lap 6. Test Over.

Conclusion
There is no possibility of the Honda doing a 6 lap run the tyres. It is largely outclassed by most of the competition and has just a little advantage in the mid-speed corners thanks to the high end turbo.
Before 8500RPM the engine has very little pull. Once in the red the power delivery becomes more punchy, meaning most of the lap is done with the engine screaming up to 10'000 revs which is not the most pleasant sound even with the racing exhaust.

Is it a contender for the win? I'm not sure it is with the set-up I used. Without the extra weight and power limit it may stand a chance so long as the GT1 Turbo or the R8 don't show their faces.

Is it nice to drive? It's just OK. The handling isn't too bad at all so long as there is grip in the tyres. It's very nimble around the tight bends showing neither much under-steer or over-steer.

The details here are a bit sketchy because I got drunk while watching the replay and my notes are almost illegible. The facts are correct but a little thin on info so apologies for that.

Next up..........I've no idea what to use! I liked the AEM2000 on SS as that provided a good challenge, it could well be my next test car.

Just did an attempt in the Tank Car...

Didn't go too badly to start with I made my way up to 6th after diving down the outside of the first hairpin and for a few minutes (maybe two!) I was pulling away from 7th.

But after I'd got to the bottom of the track where the hotel and village is they were right on my tail and it stayed this way until the main straight where they all flew past me apart from the pace car Skyline and somesort of 350Z.

Lap 1 = 10th place (9:37)

Then the pace car overtook me into the hairpin, I braked late in the 4 tonne beast and was momentarily ahead until his far superior four wheel traction allowed him ahead.... So it was all about keeping the 350Z behind me but disastrously a tyre went on the grass on the fast right hander after the jump I went into a 360 degree spin letting the 350Z through. I sloppily finished the lap on the now totally knackered tyres and promptly retired.

Lap 2 = 12th place (10:50)

I think I need to show this race a bit more respect!

Just finished the race, my car was quite overpowered, a lexus ISF RM with 550 hp on Racing Hard, my best lap was 8:38 and I don't know how I did that, all I know is that yesterday I need to finish 1 lap before I had to go to work so I was abit in a hurry. My average was around 8:47.
I finished with 6mins ahead of the 2nd car which was the audi TT. Maybe I'll try again next time against those S2000 GT1 turbo or the audi r8 lms.
Overall it was a great experience to learn the track

Famine

Barra333's race added to post one.

I'm doing some testing in other FWD cars now - I want to use an ST170 for the 6th gear, but I'd have to dirty my 0.0mi one to do it (if anyone has a spare, please do send it over) - to lower my 444PP record I've just tested a FIAT Coupe at 420PP to 9'20, so I'll give it a few tweaks and have another crack...

I'd love to use the Tank Car. I know it has the same outright pace as Speccy which walked it, but I also know that, at 3.5 tonnes, it chews tyres like my dog chews rawhide.

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Problem is the tank car is no where near as fast as you would perceive it to be. Most cars have the legs on it down a small straight and on the massive straight at the Nurb it hits the red line at around 160mph so everyone will just fly past unless you.unfairly block. Plus it's almost impossible to keep in a straight line on cold tyres around the first section.

Famine

ST170.

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There's a good chance I've got one an I know for a fact I haven't used it yet. I'll have a look.

shem

There's a good chance I've got one an I know for a fact I haven't used it yet. I'll have a look.

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Cheers

Actually, I suppose I could clone it for use tomorrow...

crooky369

Problem is the tank car is no where near as fast as you would perceive it to be. Most cars have the legs on it down a small straight and on the massive straight at the Nurb it hits the red line at around 160mph so everyone will just fly past unless you.unfairly block. Plus it's almost impossible to keep in a straight line on cold tyres around the first section.

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I've been driving cars topping at 148mph Speccy only tops at 155.

Back before UKGTP14, Venari came up with an idea for an event based on the old EZGT seried run at the Numbers. The essence was to build a car using anything but wings (and a 95% power limiter cap) that you could not physically get to beat a set laptime at a set course. If your car was too fast, you had to detune it until you couldn't beat the laptime and if it was too slow you could build it up to get close to it.

Speccy - which destroyed this race without the R8 LMS and GT1 Turbo in it (and could probably beat them if I tried) - was the result of this event. However, I very nearly ran the series with the Tank Car instead, which was only 0.2s slower around the circuit than Speccy was. I also nearly used the Mitsubishi HSR-II Concept because it's hilarious and I thought it might distract my rivals

I love the Tank Car and it's in my in-game profile picture currently (and has been since May). But it'll drink gas and chew tyres I'll have to pit every two laps, for a minute a time!


Edit: 9'14 from a 439PP FIAT Coupe. Harumph. Glad I didn't waste a Matte Purple on it

Edit edit: Oh wow, 9'02 from a 430PP FWD car... It's stock bar two lots of weight losses, so I might have to put some ballast on board to detune it a bit, otherwise it'll be a FWD walkover.

Edit edit edit: Nope. Whereas the Focus was a 9'09 car in practice and a 9'09 car in the race with occasional flashes of 9'03, the Integra managed 9'02 in practice (even with ballast) and has only broken 9'10 once in seven laps. And I've been utterly removed from the planet by a Nismo 380RS, smashing me off the track in the braking zone at Hohenrain. Drawing board, back to.

I was doing some testing earlier trying to get a car that could either break the 410PP, 169bhp/tonne or 160bhp records. It proved really tough to get a car with any of those specs under 9:15. My first attempt was a Beetle RSi with ~450PP, 260BHP/1700kg (200kg ballast, 95% limiter), but even though it had 168bhp/tonne and RS Tyres, I couldn't get below 9:35.

Next try was a VW Golf IV RM with 418PP, RS, ~200BHP/tonne and 180BHP. Too slow as well.

Back to the drawing board. I want to break a record, or at least come close. I suppose I could always use an X2011 on CH Tyres.

great thread here, have really enjoyed the race reports and looking forward to adding my own experience to the list.
undecided which car to try yet, but have had a practice in a 1981 celica 409pp for a lap of approx 9:35 so that's not quite enough.
also bonobo4 has a thread "nordshleife lap times" which has a very good map for the names of corners on the green hell, doesn't include the gp track but will be good reference for me.