No more Miatas! Give us these!

With the endless Miatas, Skylines, 3000GTs, RX-7s, and just all sorts of uselessly similar cars for no reason I think Gran Turismo could have given us a few more truly classic cars. While they wouldn’t hold a candle to modern cars, I think it would just be awesome to blast the Nurburgring or Eiger Nordwand in some of these! I don’t want to drive 40 different Miatas that are all the exact same, the designers show the game as paying homage to some of the best racing machines ever and the only pre-’60 racing classic we get is the Mercedes 300SL? Blasphemy!

Alfa Romeo 8C
Isn’t that already in the game? Yes and no. I’m talking about the Vittorio Jano 8C. Two 4-cylinder engines were bolted together to create an all-alloy inline-8 with dual overhead cams displacing 2336cc and a supercharger to make 155hp; not bad for a car in 1931 that weighed 2200lbs! The 8C2900 making 220hp or the 8C2600 Monza tuned by Scuderia Ferrari are also some good choices.


Allard
I don’t care which one, just anything by that nutty hole-in-the-wall garage builder would be nothing short of amazing! Early cars had transverse leaf springs at both ends, but the later ones had a rather good coil spring setup in the front. Throw the 3.9L/4.4L Ford V8 in the front or even the early Chrysler Hemi or Cadillac V8 engines that were popular in the American kits and why wouldn’t you want to drive this thing?



Aston Martin DB4 GT Zagato
One of the best British cars ever made, then tuned, lightened, and re-styled by the Italians. Is there a better classic car?


Austin-Healey
Again, I’m not even picky with these. Give me an older 4-cylinder to battle with the Triumph Spitfire or a later 3000 to duke it out with the Elan. It doesn’t matter; just let me drive one of the most famous British roadsters ever made!


Bentley Speed Six
An all-alloy 6597cc inline-6 with an overhead cam and twin spark plugs is a pretty interesting engine. Especially for 1928. Why not put it in the game? Ettore Bugatti hated it but that’s because he was jealous.


BMW 507
The predecessor to the Z8, with a 3.2L V8. Actually, why isn’t the Z8 in the game?


Bugatti Type 57
A 3257cc inline-8 with twin overhead cams and a supercharger to net 175hp; I’ll take the Atlantic Coupe.




Daimler SP250
Kind of like a Triumph TR3A, just this one had either a 2.5L or a 4.5L V8.


Ferrari 250/275
If I have to explain myself, then you should probably step away from the PS3 and go google the 10 best cars ever made. If the list you click on doesn’t include the Ferrari 250 or 275 then immediately disregard it as garbage and keep looking.



Jensen-Healey
A British roadster built on Vauxhall suspension with a 2.0L Lotus Twin Cam engine. Why is it not in the game?


Mercedes-Benz SSK
With a 7069cc inline-6 that could be supercharged up to 300hp and 500ft-lbs do I even need another reason? If you think I still do then the car weighed under 2800lbs and the styling is nothing short of stunningly beautiful.


MGB
Eat your heart out, Triumph! Maybe we could get lucky and score one with a Rover/Buick 3.5L or 4.0L V8?


Morgan Plus Eight
Lightweight, old school British Roadster with a new Rover/Buick 3.5L V8. The Aero Eight with its independent suspension and 285hp BMW 4.4L V8 may appeal to some, but I’ll take the original.

Pegaso Z102/103
If we must endure the Seat Ibiza Cupra we should be gifted with a Spanish car worth driving. We can have a 2.5L V8 all the way up to a 4.7L V8, some of them with superchargers, and anything above the 2.8L is making over 200hp.



Stutz Bearcat
I’ll admit most people here probably wouldn’t bother driving it. Yet a 6.4L inline-4 making 60hp at, and I’m not joking, 1500rpm should be an interesting hill climb car!


Triumph Stag
Eat your heart out, MG! Triumph can put a 3.0L V8 in their cars too!

Enzo_Guy

I think Gran Turismo could have given us a few more truly classic cars.

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Why do you think this?

Famine

Why do you think this?

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Because it seems like PD sort of padded the car stats by shoving in 40 identical Miatas with different names, not to mention the other cars they did it with. Then I have cars like the '54 300SL or Alfa Romeo TZ2 racecar that just feel slapped in there and there aren't any cars that compete with them, so unless I'm taking them out for a cruise or hot lap then they're not very useful.

If you're going to include classic cars like that you should give us more than just one.

Enzo_Guy

Because it seems like PD sort of padded the car stats by shoving in 40 identical Miatas with different names, not to mention the other cars they did it with. Then I have cars like the '54 300SL or Alfa Romeo TZ2 racecar that just feel slapped in there and there aren't any cars that compete with them, so unless I'm taking them out for a cruise or hot lap then they're not very useful.

If you're going to include classic cars like that you should give us more than just one.

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Which doesn't answer the question. I asked why you think PD could have given us these cars - it implies that, through their absence, they chose not to. That's a very strange position to hold.

We can say, with certainty, that all cars in GT5 were known to PD, chosen by PD, licensed to PD and modelled for PD. We cannot say, with certainty, whether any car not in GT5 was not known to PD, not chosen by PD, not licensed to PD or not modelled for PD - only that one or more is true. The notion that they knew of, chose, licensed and modelled a car - the only conditions by which a car could have been included - and then decided to leave it out is bizarre at best. That immediately implies that any car that was not included could not have been included.


Incidentally, the "40 identical Miatas with different names" are 34 versions of 9 different Eunos Roadsters with different names. Too many, perhaps (until you realise that there are simply 11 cars for each region in GT4/PSP and they just smooshed the car lists together to make 33; the 34th is the Roadster TC), but none are occupying space another car could have taken. Again, a spurious jab.

Enzo_Guy

Because it seems like PD sort of padded the car stats by shoving in 40 identical Miatas with different names, not to mention the other cars they did it with. Then I have cars like the '54 300SL or Alfa Romeo TZ2 racecar that just feel slapped in there and there aren't any cars that compete with them, so unless I'm taking them out for a cruise or hot lap then they're not very useful.

If you're going to include classic cars like that you should give us more than just one.

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Agreed with that. it would be extremely cool and fun to race with car legends. 54 300SL (race version) vs Alfa Romeo TZ2 and many more of the more or less same year and power.
The game needs at least 20 car legends from different decades. And then new cars and race cars/series.

Famine

We can say, with certainty, that all cars in GT5 were known to PD, chosen by PD, licensed to PD and modelled for PD. We cannot say, with certainty, whether any car not in GT5 was not known to PD, not chosen by PD, not licensed to PD or not modelled for PD - only that one or more is true. The notion that they knew of, chose, licensed and modelled a car - the only conditions by which a car could have been included - and then decided to leave it out is bizarre at best. That immediately implies that any car that was not included could not have been included

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I'm not necessarily saying that, I'm merely trying to say instead of all those darn Miatas and Skylines I would have enjoyed some more diversity with the classic cars. We got a lot of the big name muscle cars but only a sprinkling of the classic European cars. It seems like a lot of those classic European cars were placed in a class by themselves and there really isn't much that competes on the same level.

I'm not saying they intentionally left any cars out, I'm just saying I wonder why some of those cars weren't featured and I think many people besides myself would have liked to drive them.

Foxiol

Agreed with that. it would be extremely cool and fun to race with car legends. 54 300SL (race version) vs Alfa Romeo TZ2 and many more of the more or less same year and power.
The game needs at least 20 car legends from different decades. And then new cars and race cars/series.

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300SL vs XK120 on Sarthe, you can't argue with that!

I smell another soon to be locked, wishlist thread.

I prefer even more Miatas over any of those cars above. I would like to have every single Miata, GT-R, NSX or Civic ever produced for every worldwide market.

Is my opinion equally valid? Or should I make my own thread?

amar212

I prefer even more Miatas over any of those cars above. I would like to have every single Miata, GT-R, NSX or Civic ever produced for every worldwide market.

Is my opinion equally valid? Or should I make my own thread?

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Its equally valid but doesnt show much common sence IMO. Because you allready have a few (to be kind) Miatas, GT-Rs, NSXs and Civics in the game but none of the cars on the OP

Enzo_Guy

I'm not necessarily saying that, I'm merely trying to say instead of all those darn Miatas and Skylines I would have enjoyed some more diversity with the classic cars.

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Except, as we've established, "instead of" the MX-5s, Skylines, RX-7s, S2000s, NSXs and whatever else, you'd get nothing at all.

If it could be in the game, it already is. Otherwise it's missing because it wasn't modelled (they didn't do it in time, or couldn't get a real example), wasn't licensed (the licence owners did not negotiate to the car's inclusion), wasn't chosen (PD simply didn't see a need for it) or wasn't known about (the guy making the "car encyclopaedia" somehow forgot it), in ascending order of requirement.

If PD didn't know about the car, telling them about it is great. Only they probably did know about it - they're trying to make a car encyclopaedia. If PD didn't want it in the game, telling them you want it is great. Only they probably do want it - they're trying to make a car encyclopaedia. If they couldn't get a licence for it or couldn't get a real one to model, telling them about it is superfluous.


Personally, I quite like having a 1.6 NA, 1.8 NA, 1.6 NB, 1.8 NB, 1.8 NB.5 and 2.0 NC MX-5 in the game. The fact they're replicated for Eunos Roadster/Mazda Roadster, Miata and MX-5 regions is... odd, but understandable if you know where the car list came from and why. The alternative to having them is having nothing.

Enzo_Guy

I'm not saying they intentionally left any cars out, I'm just saying I wonder why some of those cars weren't featured and I think many people besides myself would have liked to drive them.

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I think PD would too.

When you boil it down, its a wishlist, but when you think about it, its a valid issue, opinion or not, PD (for reasons unknown) have neglected classics, particularly pre 60s sport and race cars.
It may be a geographic thing, most owners are Euro or American, might be an insurance thing because of course they will have to record the entire rev range which is impossible in some cases.
Or to model Vintage tires and alternative fuels and their depletion ETC.
Im not wishing or hoping , but something like POWER&GLORY(RFactor), could only compliment the GT experience.

That there are 40 variations of Miatas, Skylines, Imprezas, Evos, etcetera is not something to blame for the lack of this car and that car.

I totally agree with Enzo, would love to see more classic cars to make a broader range of cars. Don't mind all the Japanese cars since I'm fab of those. :-D

You know, we can all guess as to why PD didn't include more classic or vintage cars but why not hear from Kaz himself which might offer a hint, an honest one I think, and offers some hope for those (like me) who'd like more classic and real vintage machinery in future games.

This clip shows Kaz obviously is aware of vintage cars (he even drives a 1937 Mercedes 540K in it) but the part I mentioned before starts at roughly 9:18 minutes.

No more Wishlist Threads! Give us peace!

DUDE! Sure the Miatas are a big space but are they a big deal to some people now? All those Miatas are mostly standard cars...

analog

You know, we can all guess as to why PD didn't include more classic or vintage cars but why not hear from Kaz himself which might offer a hint, an honest one I think, and offers some hope for those (like me) who'd like more classic and real vintage machinery in future games.

This clip shows Kaz obviously is aware of vintage cars (he even drives a 1937 Mercedes 540K in it) but the part I mentioned before starts at roughly 9:18 minutes.

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Well, I thought I'd seen this, but I don't remember that frank admission of prior ignorance!

Kaz's attitude is definitely promising; I like that he's taken this new perspective, although what that means for Gran Turismo in general remains to be seen. I doubt it's at all bad, though.

Ferrari 250 Testa Rossa from the 60's is another I would like to see in that group. Wonderful little car and looks pretty sweet, also maybe because I have a 1/18th scale version of it.

Sorry I don't want those. I'd like some muscle spanned throught the last 40 years.

with all these wishlists, i think I'm gonna explode into bits.

I gotta tell ya, I think we need more Skylines.

analog

You know, we can all guess as to why PD didn't include more classic or vintage cars but why not hear from Kaz himself which might offer a hint, an honest one I think, and offers some hope for those (like me) who'd like more classic and real vintage machinery in future games.

This clip shows Kaz obviously is aware of vintage cars (he even drives a 1937 Mercedes 540K in it) but the part I mentioned before starts at roughly 9:18 minutes.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMYLhZiNg18">YouTube Link</a>

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That was a great video right there. I like the way Kaz was open minded about these iconic machines and his attitude towards them. And I respect why he didn't pay enough attention to these cars, but still respected their heritage, history and wants to bring these cars to us to witness, drive and respect their point in automotive history.

Heck, I didn't know about Austin-Healy, older Bugattis, and many others myself when growing up, but when I saw them, either models cars or the real ones, I gave the upmost acknowledgement to these cars. I would love to see some of them in the GT series, even in Forza, these classics should be involved in any car encylopedia game for anyone to enjoy and apperciate. But it will be hard, because the cars are really old and fragile, and if something happens, it will be costly. Then the licencing, finding the cars etc...

And I like having different Miatas/MX-5 roadsters, because they vary from engine types and different regions. So this shows how cars operate and/or behave in different countries. And like people or anything else: No two cars are the same.

tribolik

Its equally valid but doesnt show much common sence IMO. Because you allready have a few (to be kind) Miatas, GT-Rs, NSXs and Civics in the game but none of the cars on the OP

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Yes, I am perfectly aware of that

However, I was clearly sarcastic. Of course that every of above cars would be more than welcomed in GT series. And I am also 300% certain that PD would like to have them too.

We just have to wait and see.

Also worth noticing is how at this point GT series needs more tracks. We have more than enough cars.

Nice list of cars to have! Just when I thought this is another rant thread, I see some real research (photos and description) and work put into it.
Well, it may be another wishlist but a nicely done one at that.

I couldn't care less what people say about a Miata SR-Limited and a VR-Limited being "unique" Unique is a relative term and for me, those redundant and IMO useless additions contribute NOTHING to the game for me.
Sure, I won't deny I'm more of a Euro car fanatic and not a huge fan of Japanese cars and so I do have bias but come on- PD clearly added those extra cars to make up the numbers. To say "See, we got over 1,000 cars"

Thanks but I'd much rather they

a) Left them out
b) Replaced them with more worthwhile cars that many people actually want

Ryan81

PD clearly added those extra cars to make up the numbers

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Nope. Moreover, they didn't "add" anything - and they aren't "extra".

It helps if you understand where the car list came from. Luckily I explained it last week:

Famine

There were eleven Mazda Roadsters and Eunos Roadsters (the NA/Mk1 was sold under Mazda's sporting "Eunos" brand in Japan) in Gran Turismo 4.

• Mazda Eunos Roadster '89
• Mazda Eunos Roadster J-Limited '91
• Mazda Eunos Roadster J-Limited II '93
• Mazda Eunos Roadster V-Special '93
• Mazda Eunos Roadster S-Special '95
• Mazda Eunos Roadster VR Limited '97
• Mazda Eunos Roadster SR Limited '97
• Mazda Roadster 1.8 RS '98
• Mazda Roadster 1800 RS '00
• Mazda Roadster 1600 NR-A '00
• Mazda Roadster 1800 RS '04

There are subtle enough differences between 9 of those cars to allow them to represent 9 different cars, so that's largely fair enough. Of course if you played the NTSC-UC version these were renamed to Mazda MX-5 Miata for you, just so you'd heard of them.

• Mazda MX-5 Miata '89
• Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited '91
• Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited II '93
• Mazda MX-5 Miata V-Special '93
• Mazda MX-5 Miata S-Special '95
• Mazda MX-5 Miata VR Limited '97
• Mazda MX-5 Miata SR Limited '97
• Mazda MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS '98
• Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS '00
• Mazda MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A '00
• Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS '04

But then if you played the PAL version you won't have heard of "Miatas", so they renamed them to Mazda MX-5 for you.

• Mazda MX-5 '89
• Mazda MX-5 J-Limited '91
• Mazda MX-5 J-Limited II '93
• Mazda MX-5 V-Special '93
• Mazda MX-5 S-Special '95
• Mazda MX-5 VR Limited '97
• Mazda MX-5 SR Limited '97
• Mazda MX-5 1.8 RS '98
• Mazda MX-5 1800 RS '00
• Mazda MX-5 1600 NR-A '00
• Mazda MX-5 1800 RS '04

So each of us had the cars with which we were familiar. Of course there was a minor issue in that those trim levels only actually exist on the Roadster and not the Miata or MX-5, but we largely ignored that because it wasn't relevant. We didn't notice that all the Mk1/NA models had Eunos badges either, even though they should have carried the Eternal Flame for the MX-5 and Miata models.

Now along came GTPSP. GTPSP effectively had GT4's car list but allowed network and online play and that posed a minor problem - a Japanese player could drive a Eunos Roadster SR Limited that a European gamer wouldn't have, where the European could have a Mazda MX-5 1.8 RS '98 that an American gamer wouldn't have and the American could drive a Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited '93 that the Japanese gamer wouldn't have. Unless the cars the players could use were the same on every disc and thus the same in every region, there could be instability in the online play.

So apparently what they decided to do was smoosh together all of the car lists from all of the GT4 regions - they could have optimised it so that we had one of each model, or just got rid of the non-existant Miata and MX-5 trim levels, but they chose to represent all eleven cars from each region.

Bam. 33 MX-5s.

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GT5's Standard car list is just GTPSP's - with the re-addition of the Aston Martins from GT4 and the Diablo JGTC from GT3.

Nothing's been "added" to get a high car count. Nothing is "extra".

Ryan81

Thanks but I'd much rather they

a) Left them out
b) Replaced them with more worthwhile cars that many people actually want

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Since replacement is impossible - any car that could be in the game already is in the game and they're not exactly running up against BD space limits - that's not an option.

So the question now becomes why you'd want to leave them out. Why shouldn't a Japanese player get to drive a Eunos Roadster? Why shouldn't a European player get to drive an MX-5? Why shouldn't an American player get to drive a Miata? Why do you hate these players so much that you want to take options away from them?

Thanks Famine, that cleared up a lot of confusion. It makes sense now. 👍

Unfortunately Famine is spot on.
Nothing has been added instead of.
Just not enough time to add Fresh material.

can i have this ?