Kazunori's ideas just haven't translated to GT5, what went wrong?

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You could also stop at the point he said they had it at 720p 30 frames. There is no way they would have aimed for 30fps. 720p yes, but not 30fps.

Or the part where they called their own menus crappy.
 
It hp very detailed, and does make a lot of sense. Sony were right in making them up the frame rate, but we all could have done with 720p. Some of what has mentioned has happened, wheels for standards, wings. It is very easy to believe, but God I hope its true.
 
Yet it flakes out on revealing anything substantial and many other things didn't happen.

I don't know how you can think that is genuine.
 
SimonK
You could also stop at the point he said they had it at 720p 30 frames. There is no way they would have aimed for 30fps. 720p yes, but not 30fps.

Or the part where they called their own menus crappy.
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yep. 1080p is very, very overrated; and actually gt5 doesn't run at that resolution nor at steady 60fps anyway.

I do think they maybe intended the game to run at 30fps because that's prioritizing graphics over more fps, and, from a technical side of things, it's very, very hard to get a PS3 game running at perfect 60fps. Probably there isn't one AAA title that truly achieves it.

But more than that what matters the most is news. It's been years without a GT6 announcement. We don't know if they are still on the business.
 
GT5 turned into a "What could have been" the day it was released and it hasn't changed since. I'n 2024 when GT6 is released we will be wondering what could have been for it. PD is riding on PS1-2 fans at this point. Every new comer to the series hates GT5 because it is a failed vision.
 
avens
yep. 1080p is very, very overrated; and actually gt5 doesn't run at that resolution nor at steady 60fps anyway.

I do think they maybe intended the game to run at 30fps because that's prioritizing graphics over more fps, and, from a technical side of things, it's very, very hard to get a PS3 game running at perfect 60fps. Probably there isn't one AAA title that truly achieves it.

But more than that what matters the most is news. It's been years without a GT6 announcement. We don't know if they are still on the business.
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I really doubt it, they've strived for 60fps as long as it's been possible, remember even in GT1 on PS1 they had a 'Hi-Fi' mode with 60fps, but was limited to the SSR5 tracks IIRC because of the PS1s limitations. But that shows they've always wanted 60fps and remember Kaz saying how he really wanted 60fps on GT PSP? There is no way they ever thought about 30fps on GT5.
 
SimonK
There is no way they ever thought about 30fps on GT5.
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Never, ever and not even than. FPS is an obsession for them.

And I hope we'll get new GT Hi-Fi on some PS4 GT game with 120/240fps just for the sake of perception.

Back in 2008 Polyphony demoed GT5: Prologue running in 4K resolution with 240fps (24fps per 0,1 sec). Here is the link to the whole story: http://eu.gran-turismo.com/nz/news/d5357p2.html

Since than I hope for the emulation of GT5 on PS4 with such astonishing fps upscale (and by than I hope I will be owner of the 120fps-enabled TV set).

BTW GT Hi-Fi in the first Gran Turismo was running in 50pfs, but it is still a technical marvel in 2MB of RAM.
 
FPS is an obsession for other companies as well, but as I said I don't know a single PS3 AAA title that achieves perfectly steady 60fps (no slowdowns, no 30fps scenes, no major quality compromises in some parts of the game, etc).

Luckily Carmack (the guy who perfected 3d gaming, and the most renowned person of that particular side of the industry) backs me up on this, lol.
http://slumz.boxden.com/f13/id-soft...3-more-details-about-its-new-content-1767353/
http://gamingbolt.com/carmack-60-fps-hard-to-achieve-on-consoles-comments-on-his-coding-style
http://nintendoconnect.com/2012/05/...-will-be-more-prevalent-in-next-gen-consoles/

Want a great example? GT5 does not run at 1080p and does not run at steady 60fps. That's very well documented, and it's easy to test by yourself. So much for the fps obsession.
 
Mac K
The "what if scenario" is referring to the XJ13, it was built in real life to compete against the Ferrari and Ford at Le Mans, but it was never actually raced and only one was actually made... I guess it was PD's intention to try and put the three cars together in the game so that anyone playing it could "re-create" it.
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The problem here is that whenever the 3 cars do show up together, theyre all muddled and separated by either duplicated versions or touring cars :grumpy:

the very least they could do is have an older race car remote race on le sarthe. The 2j and 7 wouldnt be a problem because they jump to the head of the pack anyways, and the 3 cars would only be competing with duplicates, the 2d, the gt40 '69 and the corvette z06.
 
avens
that isn't an AAA title. Actually I put the "AAA" on the post to specifically avoid that example.

edit: Funny thing is it actually has slowdowns and doesn't run at 1080p.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/wipeout-hd-fury-review (first link that comes up in google)
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/game-consoles-smackdown/67081-wipeout-hd-not-always-full-hd.html (not 1080p at all times. Second link in google)
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Here is your first link friend


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/eugene2023/view/516486/

You are absolutly right about AAA titles on ps3. I agree with you.
 
see the replies. Steady fps is not one of those things game reviewers care or know much about, so they miss it completely. At most they leave that analysis for later, since they have schedules to meet when doing reviews.
And again, it was the first thing that came up in google. Here's the 4th link, where people say the game doesn't run smoothly.
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?6530-HD-2-0-Fury-Update-framerate-drop&
(I know it's about the fury version release, but it seems no one did an analysis like with gt5)

Also it's been already ruled out completely that the game does run at 1080p (it uses dynamic framebuffer from 1920x1080 to 1280x1080), just like GT5 runs at 1280x1080 and we know from experience that's with severe drops.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-gran-turismo-5-tech-analysis?page=2

In short, wipeout hd simply doesn't run 1080p (lowers res dynamically) @60fps (frame drops, but agree it's debatable as there aren't proper analysis), and that's supposed to be the only ps3 title able to do that. Tie all that with Carmack's inputs on the subject and there are grounds to think GT5 could have been intended to run 720p@30fps.
 
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Throw 3D into the mix ensured that 2D had to at least run around 60fps.

A 2D game running at 30FPS would be crippled by 3D.
 
Avens I think it was digital foundry 'but not 100% sure it was them' that retested GT5 late last year and the game now runs at a virtually seamless 60fps with very minor drops here and there to 58-59 fps. Unlike when it first released when it dropped at times by 10fps.
 
avens
... and there are grounds to think GT5 could have been intended to run 720p@30fps.
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You are really stubborn with this personal opinion you try to present as a fact over and over again, aren't you?

And mind you, I am taking on this from the purest logical and objective perspective, I really do not care about loving this series or another one, but you're really talking nonsense.

>First GT on PSX had 30fps and special 50 fps mode for sake of technical demostration.
> GT2 on PSX was 30 fps, naturally.
> GT3 introduced 60fps on PS2 with increased horizontal resolution
> both GT Concept and GT4:Prloogue were 60fps
> GT4 was 60 fps with 480p/1080i option for NTSC sets
> Tourist Trophy was 60 fps with 480p/1080i mode for NTSC sets and increased horizontal resolution over GT4
> GT:HD for PS3 was 720p/1280p (for menus) upscaled to 1080p/60fps
> GT5:Prologue introduced full-HD 1080p/60fps with ray-tracing for menus and 1280p/60fps for races (with 4XAA in 720p/60fps)
> GTPSP had pure 60 fps
> GT5 have 1280p/60fps throughout the game (2XAA) and 4XAA in 720p/60fps > with fps seriously optimised after Spec II update almost than year ago with introduction of varibale LOD on tracks and optimised shadowing
> GT5 also have full-scope 3D with 1280p/30fps per eye throughout the game

And as I mentioned on the previous pages, Polyphony also successfully demoed 4K@240p GT5:Prologue back in 2008, using only 4 PS3 consoles.

And everybody can be smart about whatever they want regarding graphical output of GT5, but at this point of time there is no single piece of software on Earth that can do 16 cars on track of GT5 Premium-quality with fully-animated cars, drivers and interiors, real-time visual and mechanical damage calculations, tire and fuel consumption, AI calculations, real-time day/night changes, real time weather changes, dynamic spray, rain, dust and smoke effects, real-time environmental dynamic lightning and particle shadowing, real-time effects of flames and brake-heating, animated pit-crews, 7.1 DTS audio with real-time spatial distortion... running in 1280p/60fps on 512MB of RAM. If that is not something to congratulate upon, I really do not know what is. And yes, alpha-mapping of smoke is the only downside of everything, but it is really not an issue when everything else is into picture.

You can say whatever you want subjectively and bring any kind of *reasoning* or *examples* into discussion, but if anyone can be proud about being focused on high-fps on their titles and achieving something that no other studio has achieved in same or similar development environment, PD can. And yes, they are focused in having as much fps they can in every game they make. Since 1997, mind you. Those are facts, not opinions.
 
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^GTHD and GT5p were 1440x1080p

GTHD and GT5 Prologue offer an intriguing insight into the developmental process at Polyphony. Gran Turismo HD laid down the building blocks of what the studio was looking to achieve on PS3: 1080p and 30FPS replays were established from the outset, but curiously the framebuffer was set up at 1440x1080 with no anti-aliasing. Without having to carry as many cars in memory, Polyphony could afford to be generous with RAM and rendering resources. A comparison shot of GTHD up against the final shipping product of GT5 is illuminating:

Astounding tech from PD no doubt, but the focus was lost.

Erm..His lack of enthusiasm for GT and more interest in being a z list celeb and average (at best ) race driver!
 
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"And everybody can be smart about whatever they want regarding graphical output of GT5, but at this point of time there is no single piece of software on Earth that can do 16 cars on track of GT5 Premium-quality with fully-animated cars, drivers and interiors, real-time visual and mechanical damage calculations, tire and fuel consumption, AI calculations, real-time day/night changes, real time weather changes, dynamic spray, rain, dust and smoke effects, real-time environmental dynamic lightning and particle shadowing, real-time effects of flames and brake-heating, animated pit-crews, 7.1 DTS audio with real-time spatial distortion... running in 1280p/60fps on 512MB of RAM. If that is not something to congratulate upon, I really do not know what is. And yes, alpha-mapping of smoke is the only downside of everything, but it is really not an issue when everything else is into picture.

You can say whatever you want subjectively and bring any kind of *reasoning* or *examples* into discussion, but if anyone can be proud about being focused on high-fps on their titles and achieving something that no other studio has achieved in same or similar development environment, PD can. And yes, they are focused in having as much fps they can in every game they make. Since 1997, mind you. Those are facts, not opinions.[/QUOTE]"

Well said.
 
avens
FPS is an obsession for other companies as well, but as I said I don't know a single PS3 AAA title that achieves perfectly steady 60fps (no slowdowns, no 30fps scenes, no major quality compromises in some parts of the game, etc).

Luckily Carmack (the guy who perfected 3d gaming, and the most renowned person of that particular side of the industry) backs me up on this, lol.
http://slumz.boxden.com/f13/id-soft...3-more-details-about-its-new-content-1767353/
http://gamingbolt.com/carmack-60-fps-hard-to-achieve-on-consoles-comments-on-his-coding-style
http://nintendoconnect.com/2012/05/...-will-be-more-prevalent-in-next-gen-consoles/

Want a great example? GT5 does not run at 1080p and does not run at steady 60fps. That's very well documented, and it's easy to test by yourself. So much for the fps obsession.
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Really?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vf5-final-showdown-face-off

Quote: Thankfully, there aren't any issues with regards to this in Final Showdown. The game is solidly locked at a consistent 60FPS during gameplay on both consoles with no sign of any screen tear; frames are never dropped and the mechanics stay locked in tune with the frame-rate.

The only thing stopping GT5 running at 60fps constantly is having lots of other cars on track and therefore in memory, When in Practice mode it does run at 60fps 99% of the time!

Plus PS3 only has 256MB of memory to use and 256MB that cannot be used for the same tasks as it is split unlike X360 where the 512MB is free to use as you wish plus free AA.
 
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IMO opinion GT5 is one big wasted opportunity. The fact that it has online for me is its saving grace. The game appears that it has been directed by a person with an attention span of a small child.
 
phil_75
It has.......KAZ!
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Haha, well I did not want to say that for the possible repercussions, but yes, that was what I was getting at.

I have respect for what he and his team have achieved but I cringe at the wasted opportunity.
 
amar212
...

And everybody can be smart about whatever they want regarding graphical output of GT5, but at this point of time there is no single piece of software on Earth that can do 16 cars on track of GT5 Premium-quality with fully-animated cars, drivers and interiors, real-time visual and mechanical damage calculations, tire and fuel consumption, AI calculations, real-time day/night changes, real time weather changes, dynamic spray, rain, dust and smoke effects, real-time environmental dynamic lightning and particle shadowing, real-time effects of flames and brake-heating, animated pit-crews, 7.1 DTS audio with real-time spatial distortion... running in 1280p/60fps on 512MB of RAM. If that is not something to congratulate upon, I really do not know what is. And yes, alpha-mapping of smoke is the only downside of everything, but it is really not an issue when everything else is into picture.

You can say whatever you want subjectively and bring any kind of *reasoning* or *examples* into discussion, but if anyone can be proud about being focused on high-fps on their titles and achieving something that no other studio has achieved in same or similar development environment, PD can. And yes, they are focused in having as much fps they can in every game they make. Since 1997, mind you. Those are facts, not opinions.
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It's always good to remember all this. Makes me respect their work everytime I play it.

Their DLC, car list and/or marketing strategies may not appeal much to the gamers latelly (They are honestly behind...) but technically they did an awesome job, again.
 
marchi
Avens I think it was digital foundry 'but not 100% sure it was them' that retested GT5 late last year and the game now runs at a virtually seamless 60fps with very minor drops here and there to 58-59 fps. Unlike when it first released when it dropped at times by 10fps.
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Other games are a part of the discussion, as we all have played GT5 extensively and it's very, very clear it has major slow downs from time to time (weather changes, london, smoke, etc.). Any GTP user can test it in a couple of minutes, as it's apparent to the eyes.

@Amar: You know GT5 doesn't run at "true" 1080p@60fps, we already know for a fact that there isn't a single ps3 AAA title that achieves that, and the most respected person on the industry says it's almost impossible to run ps3 games (not xbox360) at 60fps.
That's the only point being discussed. I agree GT5 looks quite impressive sometimes, but it's not 1920x1080 running at steady 60fps.

And the rest: Most people (99.9%) don't notice changes since for that you need a "hardcore" PC gaming background or being specialized on the subject, otherwise you are used to playing with CRT or LCD TVs with at most 60fps.
I know that sounds like some sort of gaming elitism, but an experienced gamer should notice 5 fps slowdowns and GT5 has those all the time. I'd say it goes lower than 40fps under the worst possible scenario, and remember it does not run at 1920x1080 as advertised.
 
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