Red Bull Deemed Illegal | Update: More illegal RB8 parts? See post 36

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Dodzzz
@prisonermonkeys
Huh? even only one small hole but it IS an illegal car now.
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All they have to do is change one part - the floor - and the car will be legal again. The thread title, however, implies that the entire car is illegal, which is why Bobert Power asked if Red Bull would have to produce an entirely new chassis.
 
Oh, and I fixed the shadow on the ground after someone pointed it out in f1t:

AJ01c.jpg


and btw, here's Ferrari's take on the floor:

Ferrari+Floor+Monaco.jpg


They're right on the edge of regulations.

The Ferrari's "holes" actually have a very small gap between the outside side of the hole and the edge of the floor. It's very fine and hard to see, but you may be able to just make it out in that shot. It is very nearly enclosed, but not fully, so it isn't a hole and is deemed as the shape of the floor, and there are no laws governing the shape of the floor in this fashion.
 
prisonermonkeys
No. It just means they change one part on the floor.

The thread title is misleading. It implies the entire car is illegal, when the issue is limited to one hole in the floor in front of the rear wheels.
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But does an updated car always have a name change like a Williams? Or is that up to the team to do that?
 
Bobert power
But does an updated car always have a name change like a Williams? Or is that up to the team to do that?
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Only if they build an entirely new car. Red Bull will simply replace the offending parts - two of them - on the existing car.

The car itself has not been declared illegal (I know that's what the thread title says, but it's wrong). Just pieces of the floor.
 
Wardez
Oh, and I fixed the shadow on the ground after someone pointed it out in f1t:

and btw, here's Ferrari's take on the floor:

They're right on the edge of regulations.

The Ferrari's "holes" actually have a very small gap between the outside side of the hole and the edge of the floor. It's very fine and hard to see, but you may be able to just make it out in that shot. It is very nearly enclosed, but not fully, so it isn't a hole and is deemed as the shape of the floor, and there are no laws governing the shape of the floor in this fashion.
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They explained this on sky as being a slot, not a "hole", because it extends to the edge of the bodywork. Sauber has the same thing
 
prisonermonkeys
More trouble on the horizon?
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My dad said he found it funny they basically had their cars in bits before his final run then he finds half a second from nowhere.

It's all very fishy.


Taken from http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?optio...n-by-vettel-in-valencia&catid=1:f1&Itemid=157



f1sa.com
F1 : Latest legality rumours follow Vettel Formula 1 qualification domination in Valencia E-mail
Sunday, 24 June 2012 11:31
[Vettel]

Vettel
As Sebastian Vettel sped well clear of the otherwise tightly bunched Valencia field in Formula One qualifying, the latest rumblings about the legality of his 2012 Red Bull began to grow louder.

A new Adrian Newey penned floor has debuted on the RB8 this weekend, which according to some sources produces a kind of 'double diffuser' effect.

And veteran photographer Darren Heath said he heard from his regular trackside vantage point in practice "what sounds like off throttle blowing" coming from German Vettel's car.

Then, with the chasing seven drivers all separated by a similar margin, Vettel stunned the paddock late on Saturday by going almost four tenths faster than his nearest qualifying rival, Lewis Hamilton.

So with hundredths or thousandths proving decisive among his chasing rivals, is there is a 'secret' to Vettel's several tenths gap on Saturday?

"What is your secret?" Hamilton, agreeing with the questioner, smilingly enquired of his rival after qualifying.

"Can't tell you," the German smiled back.

The smiles might not last for long. Germany's Bild newspaper said the situation could lead to Formula 1's "next protest threat against Red Bull".

Briton Hamilton is quoted by the newspaper as saying: "You only have to look at his car to know where the big gap comes from."

The McLaren driver is expecting to be beaten by the upgraded Red Bull on Sunday.

"My boss wouldn't like me to say this but ... my target is to finish where I am," he said.

Williams' Pastor Maldonado starts third, but many in the paddock consider Romain Grosjean's Lotus to be Vettel's real challenger for victory.

Asked by Marca newspaper if he could be Formula 1's eighth different winner of 2012, the Frenchman answered: "I could be!

"I will start the race with the desire to win," he confirmed, according to the French language RMC Sport.

"But I think that if Vettel keeps his pace, he is untouchable."
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Whatever it was, it broke his car :lol:

Interesting. Bet we will hear more about this....
 
interesting! I heard something fishy on TV when Vettel left the pit lane after his second stop during the safety car! It sounded like more diffuser blowing.
 
Blaze_409
interesting! I heard something fishy on TV when Vettel left the pit lane after his second stop during the safety car! It sounded like more diffuser blowing.
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When the pole lap was shown I thought I could just hear it as well during braking.
 
hawkeye122
Protest against what though? They cant just come out and say

"We are protesting against the RB8, and everything on it. Please investigate."
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No, but they can ask the FIA to investigate the claims that Red Bull are running a blown diffuser.
 
Furinkazen
Whatever it was, it broke his car :lol:

Interesting. Bet we will hear more about this....
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If that is what broke the car...hmmm. Many beleive that it was a failed alternator similar identical to Grosjean and a part supplied by Renault.
 
Renault believe it was an alternator problem, but they haven't done a full diagnosis just yet and don't want to comment until they know for sure.

But whatever it was, it clearly took Red Bull by surprise. They never sent Vettel a message warning him of it because they had no data showing a failure was likely, much less imminent. It is highly unlikely that Vettel's retirement had anything to do with the "blown diffuser" effects te car is supposedly generating.
 
Aparently they knew about the problem, warning lights went off in the car.

I can't remember where I read this though. :p
 
Well, they clearly didn't have enough time to let Vettel know with what little warning they had. If they knew and did not tell him - for fear of broadcasting on an open line - it would appear highly suspicious. Nor would they have released the engine to Renault for a diagnostic check, because Renault would find whatever trickery was employed in the car to create the blown diffuser effect.
 
None of the teams look to be protesting against it so I guess the car's clean. I didn't hear anything on the TV but my volume's pretty low.
 
gorsad
None of the teams look to be protesting against it so I guess the car's clean.
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The teams can protest against it at their discretion. It has to be said that these protests are sometimes done strategically, so as to try and get more of an advantage from it. We saw this in Monaco, when McLaren only approached the FIA about the Red Bull floor two hours before the race began. The FIA were obligated to notify Red Bull about it, leaving them with the possibility of a protest and forcing them to make a choice: remove the parts and start from pit lane, or keep them and risk an exclusion. If Vettel had won in Valencia, then maybe te teams would have protested then - but because he retired, they might just be saving it for a rainy day. The RB8 is very strong in hot conditions, but the British Grand Prix has typically been a cooler-than-average event in the past. If the teams were to protest in the immediate lead-in period to the race, it might force Red Bull to run an older spec of car which will suffer in cooler conditions.
 
They say Vettel's alternator simply overheated..I cant imagine it having enough cooling being an adrian Newey designed car. The Safety car did not help as they weren't moving at racing speed.

Grosjean still unknown.
 
GTPorsche
It was the same failure as Vettel's.
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That hasn't been confired yet. Renault have said they know Grosjean's problem was the alternator, and they think Vettel's might have been the alternator, but they don't know for certain yet. They've taken both engines and are testing them to try and diagnose the problem, because if it is the alternator, then it's possible that there is a problem with the manufacturing process and more faulty engines might be out there.
 

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