buy a Handbrake?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MrDavid5465
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Thanks guys.

@mayaman - although it sounds good if I were just starting on HB idea :), but I've had a starting kit already for a few years, so am trying to upgrade to the highest possible (ie closest to reality in feel/action/look) standard. I have a bloody decent load cell handbrake atm, which I am enjoying a lot, but teh heart wants more, that proper leaver and hydraulic pressure system to push whatever it'd push :)

@Jet - that sounds like a very interesting idea too! Just have to calc and plan well :)
A transducer will cost me £25 in addition to £38 for HB lever/base as pictured by Derek's links. I already have (to become spare) 30kg lo0ad cell in my current HB and obviously an amplifier it is connected to, so no additional costs there. So my total costs, if that's how it works and a transducer on my watch-list on ebay has 4 wires in its Packard connector (enquired about the one i have in mind), then it would all make a perfect sense to get that, at no extra costs. I'll have a look what a calliper like that would cost and how it will integrate with my load cell and the HB lever unit/its pressure cylinder etc, although I believe that should be fairly straightforward to just plug into any(?) calliper, reading HB unit description. Just need to confirm if my original plan would work, as that seems to be the cheapest atm, unless calliper is even less than £25

EDIT: this looks somewhat good for the purpose also I think. Food for thoughts :) AT least I know this should work as planed using load cell+amp
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pit-Bike-...42?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2c6c8feaee
 
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The one you posted would be very difficult to imply with a brake caliper. I think you're better off with this kind of loadcell:

Bathroom-High-Accuracy-Body-Scale-Load-Cell-LAA-W1-.jpg


It's the same kind of what's found in ClubSport pedals, you can find four of these in digital bathroom scales if you have one laying around. They would be much easier to fit in a bike caliper.
 
I do actually own the one from ClubSport pedals :). But as it has 3 wires again, so very much unlike any load cells I've had (I had 3 and all had 4 specific wires) I have no idea how to use it, as any LC amplifier also has 4 LC connectors input. I'd happily use he one like pictured, which is very similar to Fanatec's, 3 wires I see i think there, btu again - no idea how :)

Plus of course I am trying to reuse all I have and not buy anything new unless strictly necessary.

As I have very little idea (watched a couple of youtube vids) how a calliper works, I have to rely on others advise, but if the one I linked to works as I picture it in my head, I';d have to remove a few bits between the piston and where I';d have to plant the load cell, will need some drilling/filing/sawing I'm sure, but quite possibly an impossible task as I can't judge atm w/o holding that one in my hand :)
 
I'm not entirely sure but a three-wire loadcell should work with your amp, just there would be one unused terminal. 2-way loadcells have 4 wires (Ground, Vcc, Out1 and Out2), they're 2-way because they are able to measure the load in two directions (you can bend the loadcell in two opposite ways). 1-way loadcells measure load only applied from one direction, so they have one wire less. If you alredy have a 3wire loadcell and an amp, then you can just try plugging it in and see if it responds on the screen.

A caliper works basically as a C-clamp, it clamps the brake disc from the sides. What you do is you dispose of the brake pads if they come in the way and put your loadcell where the disc would've been.
 
Thank you for patiently explaining :)
I was damn sure 2 of my load cells 30kg and 60kg I use with pedals was uni-directional with 4 (actually 5, but 2 were both grounds) wires each, same as one I pulled out of my scales that broke down, at least I for 100% know the amplifier is uni-dir, yet has all 4 wires terminals...
But never mind all that, I will certainly try and test that fanatec 3wire LC theory later tonight, obviously have to fiddle to try it out in existing setup. If that works, well then I assume the transducer would work the same way as well :), which would be weasier to mount and w/o load cell

Thank you for calliper picture, while I understood the basics correctly, I was hoping, but wasn't sure about removing the pads, it makes perfect sense, and hence why I thought judging from pictures my normal 30kg load cell should/would fit nicely if the gap is wide (2.3-2.5cm) enough with a little room to spare for load cell flex (tiny), full size - 8.8 x 3 x 2.2cm
 
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frapster
Thank you for patiently explaining :)
I was damn sure 2 of my load cells 30kg and 60kg I use with pedals was uni-directional with 4 (actually 5, but 2 were both grounds) wires each, same as one I pulled out of my scales that broke down, at least I for 100% know the amplifier is uni-dir, yet has all 4 wires terminals...
But never mind all that, I will certainly try and test that fanatec 3wire LC theory later tonight, obviously have to fiddle to try it out in existing setup. If that works, well then I assume the transducer would work the same way as well :), which would be weasier to mount and w/o load cell

Thank you for calliper picture, while I understood the basics correctly, I was hoping, but wasn't sure about removing the pads, it makes perfect sense, and hence why I thought judging from pictures my normal 30kg load cell should/would fit nicely if the gap is wide (2.3-2.5cm) enough with a little room to spare for load cell flex (tiny), full size - 8.8 x 3 x 2.2cm
Click to expand...

Tried everything with that never used fanatec LC, but no dice, absolutely nothing when leaving of either data terminals free nor when combining both into one - read some papers online explaining differences between 2, 3 and 4 wires conections and it suggested combining data plus and minus as well, but still no dice

I'm waiting for a reply about transducer wires on ebay or if I'm lucky someone might be able to confirm how wide the gap in a smaller bike calliper, if it's wide enough - 2.5cm/1" minimum, like ones either I or Jet linked to or similar to this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kawasaki-...39?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5198f43487
It looks wide enough on the photos there, but without knowing exact dimensions it's a tough guessing game and I already have a bunch of wrong size things I bought :)

EDIT:
Right, I think I'll end my research for now
Seems like most sensible way to go with that FZR400 type front calliper or larger if I can find anything, unless I still might swing back towards transducer :D
Will have to let brew this for a few days
 
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frapster
Tried everything with that never used fanatec LC, but no dice, absolutely nothing when leaving of either data terminals free nor when combining both into one - read some papers online explaining differences between 2, 3 and 4 wires conections and it suggested combining data plus and minus as well, but still no dice

I'm waiting for a reply about transducer wires on ebay or if I'm lucky someone might be able to confirm how wide the gap in a smaller bike calliper, if it's wide enough - 2.5cm/1" minimum, like ones either I or Jet linked to or similar to this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kawasaki-...39?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5198f43487
It looks wide enough on the photos there, but without knowing exact dimensions it's a tough guessing game and I already have a bunch of wrong size things I bought :)

EDIT:
Right, I think I'll end my research for now
Seems like most sensible way to go with that FZR400 type front calliper or larger if I can find anything, unless I still might swing back towards transducer :D
Will have to let brew this for a few days
Click to expand...

Sorry to jump in here Hoiman, I hadn't seen this topic before and wanted to help this guy out.

3 wire sensors like the ones in bathroom scales and on the clubsport pedals are actually what is called a half wheatstone bridge. A 4 wire load cell is a full wheatstone bridge. (I'm calling it what it is so you can look up the info if you want) :)

In order to connect and properly use it, you will need to form the other half of the wheatstone bridge. This is done easily enough by using two resistors of the proper value. The circuit will look like this when done:

30j0d2t.jpg


The outputs can then be connected to a load cell amplifier.

You will BARELY be able to measure the output on a multimeter without an amplifier.
 
LogiForce
Even you? lol. I hope mine is here soon too. :)

I bought a real hydraulic handbrake (see simology for pics)
Click to expand...

Gefeliciteerd met de aankoop Christiaan :)

Do you mind posting a picture/link here since i can't seem to find it on simology.

I guess we both gonna play some more Rally games soon :D
 
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HoiHman
Gefeliciteerd met de aankoop Christiaan :)

Do you mind posting a picture/link here since i can't seem to find it on simology.

I guess we both gonna play some more Rally games soon :D
Click to expand...

Basically that which Derek posted. Though I liked the grip design more of this particular one, plus was cheaper for me than the one Derek linked to.

I do need more bits though. Sensors and a bleeding nipple for instance.

ps. Just checked Simology. Ilonioum did a rollback again it seems. Hence my posts were gone. :(









 
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LogiForce
Basically that which Derek posted. Though I liked the grip design more of this particular one, plus was cheaper for me than the one Derek linked to.

I do need more bits though. Sensors and a bleeding nipple for instance.

ps. Just checked Simology. Ilonioum did a rollback again it seems. Hence my posts were gone. :(
Click to expand...

When are expecting the parts? I still owe you am email :)
 
pilmat
When are expecting the parts? I still owe you am email :)
Click to expand...

It should be posted on Monday or Tuesday I reckon. So about 6 working days after. So roughly the week after next week.

Asked the guy I bought it from about the thread sizes as well. Else I can't get anywhere and it didn't state it.

Also I don't have any bleeding equipment yet. So recommendations would be useful for that as well.

As for a slave cylinder. I wonder if I could get a Brembo caliper and disc and attach it to the side of my to build center console. Instead of a slave cylinder.
 
LogiForce
It should be posted on Monday or Tuesday I reckon. So about 6 working days after. So roughly the week after next week.

Asked the guy I bought it from about the thread sizes as well. Else I can't get anywhere and it didn't state it.

Also I don't have any bleeding equipment yet. So recommendations would be useful for that as well.

As for a slave cylinder. I wonder if I could get a Brembo caliper and disc and attach it to the side of my to build center console. Instead of a slave cylinder.
Click to expand...

Cool, I'll get back to you over the weekend :)

And a caliper is not a bad idea. You will NOT need a brake disc, an piece of rubber as an elastomer would work much better ;)
 
pilmat
Cool, I'll get back to you over the weekend :)

And a caliper is not a bad idea. You will NOT need a brake disc, an piece of rubber as an elastomer would work much better ;)
Click to expand...

The disc would only be for looks. ;)

The thing where it gets exciting though is when I would want to hook up a brake pedal to the system as well. I think at that point I will have conflicts if I would use pressure sensors.
An hydraulic clutch pedal on the other hand would require a clutch slave cylinder I reckon, but I don't know as I have only seen and have driven with normal wired system.

Though, that's something for the future. ;)

Edit:
As for rubber. I still have a spare exhaust rubber. I think this should be good enough. :D
 
Hmmm, it seems the master cylinder has 3/8" amd 7/16" UNF thread and the reservoir is 7/16" as well. Which is problematic as we in the Netherlands and most folk on the planet use metric threads.

Now I will have to figure out if there are adapters or if I can use two systems on a metric copper brake line.
 
LogiForce
Hmmm, it seems the master cylinder has 3/8" amd 7/16" UNF thread and the reservoir is 7/16" as well. Which is problematic as we in the Netherlands and most folk on the planet use metric threads.

Now I will have to figure out if there are adapters or if I can use two systems on a metric copper brake line.
Click to expand...

No, no, no. You just tell me what you need (or we figure it out together) :)

The 7/16 reservoir should screw right onto the master cylinder. Do you need an adapter?

The output will require one of two solutions: flare or banjo bolt. The best is dependant on the other end, i.e. the slave.
 
pilmat
No, no, no. You just tell me what you need (or we figure it out together) :)

The 7/16 reservoir should screw right onto the master cylinder. Do you need an adapter?

The output will require one of two solutions: flare or banjo bolt. The best is dependant on the other end, i.e. the slave.
Click to expand...

Well, the issue is that when I get stuff here in the shop it will be metric. So the pipes will be in millimeters as well as the threads being M10x1.00 for example.
I just need a new master cylinder and sell this one, or get an adapter to be able to fit it to a metric system.

I still haven't bought anything for the slave end of the story though, nor the sensors and nipple.
 
Quick update to say thank you to mrbasher and others for comments and advice. After a couple of helpful hints from Derek, I too started collecting parts and building the bases. Just waiting on the transducer now to do the 1st test done, here's the picture of most things in place before the transducer arrives

Not sure why a bleeding nipple was mentioned here (of course if one had calipers and all, then I'd understand) - I'd have thought one doesn't really need it, if it's a simple/short hydro circuit consisting of just the master cylinder on the HB, brake fluid reservoir and transducer in my case, so all basically just sits on top of the master cylinder and I'd imagine would not need a nipple system w/o another outlet of some sort anyway, but beings so short, I thought I could get rid of any air easy enough anyway...
Also got the girling type of reservoir, so it screws directly to master cylinder not sure if one in LogiForce's pic is the same

 
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Which transducer did you get, Frapster?
I just see a red plug in the outlet of your master cylinder there.

My reservoir should be the same. It has a 7/16" thread just like the master cylinder.
So if all goes well it should screw right in.
The pain is I want to use local parts, but I don't know if there is a way to do this due to measure system differences. I decided to wait until the handbrake and so on arrive and then I will just take it to the local car parts shop in the hope they can get me sorted somehow. :)
 
hey Logi

Transducer is the last part I am waiting for. I went with 500 psi, could well be wrong, will see :)
I have a quick backup plan and wil make it into a switch or analogue axis with a pot if transducer doesn't work out on 1st try, will give a shout here if/when things are working :)
 
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frapster
hey Logi

Transducer is the last part I am waiting for. I went with 500 psi, could well be wrong, will see :)
I have a quick backup plan and wil make it into a switch or analogue axis with a pot if transducer doesn't work out on 1st try, will give a shout here if/when things are working :)
Click to expand...

I've read that an average brake system should produce about 1000 to 1200 PSI at the caliper though. Although this is largely dependent on the master cylinder bore size and other brake enhancing systems.

For use with a .7 bore I think 500 PSI is about right though as per this document.

http://www.airheart-brakes.com/pdfs/MasterCylinder_Selection.pdf

Alsomsome vids for the heck of it.

Bore sizes
[Youtube]H3TU-GRoO2k[/media]

How stuff works
 
Yes! My goodies have been shipped. Now it's waiting for the mule train to arrive. Hopefully before the weekend. :)


 
Almost 4 months after, no one sells decent usb handbrakes? There are dozens of simracing products there, with accessories of the highest of quality available right now, but somehow no one massively sells a good handbrake and if you want one you have to do it yourself?

Make it happen derek. Hopefully it will not be just an on/off switch.
 
avens
Almost 4 months after, no one sells decent usb handbrakes? There are dozens of simracing products there, with accessories of the highest of quality available right now, but somehow no one massively sells a good handbrake and if you want one you have to do it yourself?

Make it happen derek. Hopefully it will not be just an on/off switch.
Click to expand...

What's good though? Good is a very subjective thing that can vary per item made.

What do you consider to be good? What are your expectations of a handbrake?
Think of ability to use it horizontal and verticle, as button and/or axis. Also think about throw of the handbrake and if it should be lockable. Also pressure needed to fully achieve braking performance, as well as speed of return of the lever.
 
If you go for a hydraulic brake, you have to design it like an all drum system to get the right feel. Disc brake systems require a booster to create 1000+ psi
 

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