Safe Places to Pass

If you're like me you're tired of drivers trying to pass you through the Suzuka esses.

I've decied to take a few of the track maps and give GTP drivers, who should show the greatest amount of repsect for their competitors, safe places to pass

Key:
YELLOW Circle = Semi safe turn to pass in, only try if you are really close and are sure you can complete the pass safely

RED Circle = Excellent turn to complete a pass in, usually offers plenty of room and requires very heavy braking

Daytona Road



Notice going into turn 1 is not considered a passing zone. This turn is very tricky and at times braking for turn 1 can feel like a controlled slide. No need for 2 cars to try and go through this corner side by side or near eachother due to the great difficulty.

I did not consider turn 8 a passing zone. A passing zone is place where you can try and out-brake another driver. DO NOT try and outbrake a driver going into turn 8. Doing so almost always spells disaster for one of the two cars. Just have the patience to stay behind the driver ahead of you. Follow him through the chicane and pass him with the draft on the banking. It's that easy.

Fuji


Turn 1 at Fuji is one of the best passing zones of all the tracks. Try and pass in turn 6 only if the driver ahead loses alot of time coming out of 5.

Turn 10 is another great passing opportunity but be careful.

Turns 11,12,13,14,15 and 16 are hard enough to drive by yourself, let alone having someone trying to pass you in them! So just stay in line and draft by them on the straight!

Suzuka



Turn 1 at Suzuka is a great passing opportunity, but be sure to account for extra speed you may be carrying if you drafted someone down the straight and pulled out for the pass.

Hairpin curve is a tricky place to pass because of the slight bend right before it. Alot of cars get out of shape going into this corner, and they don't need you trying to barge past them!

The entrance to spoon curve can be used as a passing corner if you are close enough.

The final chicane at the end is a great passing opportunity

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Keep in mind that other corners can be used to pass for several special circumstances like:

- a driver pulling off a sandtrap onto the track
- a driver gets real loose/tight in a corner and scrubs off ALOT of speed
- a driver brakes too late for a corner and runs wide

In the end just use your head!

when you really plot them all out like that, doesnt seem like much oppurtunity. heh.

FYI.. The Daytona Road track sucks. lol. Its wayyyy too narrow. But whatever.

Hmm, you should do some more maps with "where NOT to overtake" points marked out with explanations why. Like, for example, the very start of the Dunlop curve at Suzuka, where it bends tightly while climbing. So many people try and overtake there, and every single time they hit someone and cause them to lose stability. Then again, people try to overtake at every single corner online, so it doesn't make much difference.
Or maybe just do some general track guides, because there are also a few places that are bad for general braking not just overtaking, like the Degner curve, some people have to brake more than others, which many people forget and end up ramming.

Usually, what I try to do at turn 8 for the beginning the chicane on Daytona Road, is if I have someone grinding my bumper, I'll pull out of line a bit an trail-brake and watch them rocket-by.. Usually the extra speed that my pursuer had from my draft will be a bit too much for them to handle if they're inexperienced, and they'll either take a gravel bath or I can pass them on the banking like mentioned above.

Hmmm... Only four overtaking spots at Suzuka? If you started in 16th place, and only managed to overtake one car per passing place, you'd still be 4 places shy of the lead!

To hell with that! If I see an opening, I'm gone! As long as I don't hit the car in front, or through recklessness cause him to lose control, then its all good to me!

If I touch them, I slow down to let them regain their place. If they crash, I park up and wait for them to get back on track.

Ardius

...for example, the very start of the Dunlop curve at Suzuka, where it bends tightly while climbing. So many people try and overtake there, and every single time they hit someone and cause them to lose stability.

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That is one of my favourite passing places! I have a good line through their onto the two turns before the bridge (and first split), I can't see why I should have to race with one hand tied behind my back because of the amatuers.

The same goes for the Degner Curve. Many times I've flown round the bend (nailing the apex) only to find a gaggle of comedy drivers clogging up the road with amateur dramatics. I have to drive considerably slower than what I'm capable of just to get around there, when in reality, I should be sailing towards the hairpin and another potential overtaking opportunity.

I've got a lot of respect for good drivers, I've got some respect for poor drivers, but I have no respect for those who clog up any track with infantile driving skills. 👍

MasterDriver

FYI.. The Daytona Road track sucks. lol. Its wayyyy too narrow. But whatever.

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I take it you mean the track in GT5P itself, not the track map

AMG.

magburner

Hmmm... Only four overtaking spots at Suzuka? If you started in 16th place, and only managed to overtake one car per passing place, you'd still be 4 places shy of the lead!

Click to expand...

Without qualifying and longer races that can be expected to happen to a clean driver.

magburner

To hell with that! If I see an opening, I'm gone! As long as I don't hit the car in front, or through recklessness cause him to lose control, then its all good to me!

If I touch them, I slow down to let them regain their place. If they crash, I park up and wait for them to get back on track.

That is one of my favourite passing places! I have a good line through their onto the two turns before the bridge (and first split), I can't see why I should have to race with one hand tied behind my back because of the amatuers.

The same goes for the Degner Curve. Many times I've flown round the bend (nailing the apex) only to find a gaggle of comedy drivers clogging up the road with amateur dramatics. I have to drive considerably slower than what I'm capable of just to get around there, when in reality, I should be sailing towards the hairpin and another potential overtaking opportunity.

I've got a lot of respect for good drivers, I've got some respect for poor drivers, but I have no respect for those who clog up any track with infantile driving skills. 👍

Click to expand...

I'm quite sure that 95% of the passing that happens in real life on these tracks happen in the areas I marked. If an opening appears is it really fair to stuff your car in it, especially if this opening appears at a tight, tecnical corner like Degner curve?

I drive with the knowledge that we are all amateurs (though some may be quite more skilled than others). And if a professional won't try to pass another professional at Degner curve why should an amateur try to pass an amateur there?

My personal driving style, and I believe all who carry the tag of GTP in front of their names should imitate this style, is that if I cannot pass 100% cleanly without the threat of ANY contact I will not attempt the pass. Sure I may not win as much as I could because I will no doubt get held up, but to me that is only being fair to the driver ahead of me and shows respect to them, even if they are slower then me. Just because a driver may be all over the track and its obvious they are struggling to control their car doesn't mean you have the right to barge past them. Maybe they are driving a new car and are having a tough time controlling it. Maybe they just aren't that good but are trying to enjoy themselves online. No need to roughhouse them.

Today I was at Suzuka with my normal Ford GT. I understeered exiting spoon corner and drifted up the track off the rumble strip just a bit, leaving a lane about a car width wide open on the inside. The driver behind me, in a tuned Evolution X, decided to go for it. The result was predictable. Bump. Bump. I'm turned around and in the grass. He could have just lifted and gone through the corner maybe a tenth of a second slower than normal and drafted me down the straight and made the pass going into the final chicane. But he had to have it now. NOW NOW NOW.

Magburner I can understand your frustration with bad drivers online, but it's not their fault it's the basic setup of online that is at fault. 2 simple additions to online would ensure you would never have to worry about getting caught up behind bad drivers

- 1 lap qualifying before each race to ensure the good drivers start up front

- race length extended from 6 minutes to 10 or more to ensure enough time to pass drivers cleanly without being in too much of a hurry

Very good idea for a thread and highlights the 'patience' that's needed to become a fair and controlled driver:tup:

As a recommendation for London, the only clear cut overtaking oppotunity IMO is turn 1. Other corners such as Trafalgar square only become a real oppotunity when the driver ahead makes a mistake at the previous bend. The last turn is king

magburner

Hmmm... Only four overtaking spots at Suzuka? If you started in 16th place, and only managed to overtake one car per passing place, you'd still be 4 places shy of the lead!

To hell with that! If I see an opening, I'm gone! As long as I don't hit the car in front, or through recklessness cause him to lose control, then its all good to me!

If I touch them, I slow down to let them regain their place. If they crash, I park up and wait for them to get back on track.



That is one of my favourite passing places! I have a good line through their onto the two turns before the bridge (and first split), I can't see why I should have to race with one hand tied behind my back because of the amatuers.

The same goes for the Degner Curve. Many times I've flown round the bend (nailing the apex) only to find a gaggle of comedy drivers clogging up the road with amateur dramatics. I have to drive considerably slower than what I'm capable of just to get around there, when in reality, I should be sailing towards the hairpin and another potential overtaking opportunity.

I've got a lot of respect for good drivers, I've got some respect for poor drivers, but I have no respect for those who clog up any track with infantile driving skills. 👍

Click to expand...

Yes, I know you can plow through "normally" at the Degner Curve, however, in race conditions you are always going to have to make way. You cant expect everyone just to clear out of the way just as much as you cant expect to be able to achieve the same lap times as in time trial.
That's my whole point, barely anyone takes into consideration the fact they may have to slow down once in a while to make way, it's not always 100% set in stone that you can always overtake at certain corners everytime.

The problem with these two corners in particular is that everyone expects to go through them full pelt when in reality, with other cars on the track, they're going to have to slow down and make way for unforseen circumstances. I'm not just talking about "amateurs" here, I'm talking about everyone, be it an amateur who is learning the track and taking it slow, professionals who have made a mistake and are correcting, or just inferior cars having to take the corners slower.

This is not even about people who are blocking, just the fact they are going a slower pace and the limitations of these corners for being high-speed, narrow and in the case of the start of the Dunlop curve, blind.

Both turn one and turn 8 at Daytona *can* be passing places, as many racers brake way too early for both turns. In my experience many people lose the car on braking into turn one, and people brake sharply and early for turn 8 assuming it's tighter than it is.

I love Daytona, nobody really seems to race there. In the new PP600 intermediate races I've had some 16 car entries at Suzuka but never more than four cars at Daytona.

Ardius

Hmm, you should do some more maps with "where NOT to overtake" points marked out with explanations why.

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I second this suggestion, or at least a discussion of the dangers of trying to overtake at certain points on the track.

My own example, also from Suzuka, is the long right hander after the hairpin (200R?). It's often a tempting place to pass since it's relatively easy to get a run coming out of the hairpin with the classic crossover maneuver. The danger here is that the outside-in crossover sets you up for a pass on the outside of the 200R, and I've found I usually either run out of room or lose rear end grip at the crest of the hill. Passing on the inside is probably safer, but a bit more challenging to set up.

homeforsummer

Both turn one and turn 8 at Daytona *can* be passing places, as many racers brake way too early for both turns. In my experience many people lose the car on braking into turn one, and people brake sharply and early for turn 8 assuming it's tighter than it is.

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I think this falls under the rule: "any turn is a passing opportunity, given the driver in front makes a mistake severe enough to exploit."

Maybe, but I wouldn't so much call it a mistake on their part, just more cautious driving. I know the circuit very well in the game and have no problems braking very late (turn one) or braking as little as possible (turn 8)

My 2c.. Dont expect to be able to win a close race simply by following the race line. The race line is the quickest line round the track, but this will leave you open to passing oportunities from other cars.. (ignoring Amatuer v Amatuer racing) which means if your racing hard with another person with some skill, you are going to get taken, most likely by a late brake block pass manouver off the racing line.
If your happy to drive around the track on the race line, dont get upset if a car does stuff it up the inside of you into Degner, for example, forcing you on to the brakes.. but thats racing.
Defending your line into a corner is a skill within itself.. you wont be setting quicker lap times but you are removing an overtaking oportunity from the person behind you.

...again all this comes down to the level of person your racing against. A noob who has left the door open probably wont like you poking your nose in under brakes and will probably assume that as he is on the racing line he has the right of way, and you can expect to get hit. Someone with some racecraft will accept they just got taken and will look to return the favour.

Earth

Without qualifying and longer races that can be expected to happen to a clean driver.




I'm quite sure that 95% of the passing that happens in real life on these tracks happen in the areas I marked. If an opening appears is it really fair to stuff your car in it, especially if this opening appears at a tight, tecnical corner like Degner curve?

I drive with the knowledge that we are all amateurs (though some may be quite more skilled than others). And if a professional won't try to pass another professional at Degner curve why should an amateur try to pass an amateur there?

My personal driving style, and I believe all who carry the tag of GTP in front of their names should imitate this style, is that if I cannot pass 100% cleanly without the threat of ANY contact I will not attempt the pass. Sure I may not win as much as I could because I will no doubt get held up, but to me that is only being fair to the driver ahead of me and shows respect to them, even if they are slower then me. Just because a driver may be all over the track and its obvious they are struggling to control their car doesn't mean you have the right to barge past them. Maybe they are driving a new car and are having a tough time controlling it. Maybe they just aren't that good but are trying to enjoy themselves online. No need to roughhouse them.

Today I was at Suzuka with my normal Ford GT. I understeered exiting spoon corner and drifted up the track off the rumble strip just a bit, leaving a lane about a car width wide open on the inside. The driver behind me, in a tuned Evolution X, decided to go for it. The result was predictable. Bump. Bump. I'm turned around and in the grass. He could have just lifted and gone through the corner maybe a tenth of a second slower than normal and drafted me down the straight and made the pass going into the final chicane. But he had to have it now. NOW NOW NOW.

Magburner I can understand your frustration with bad drivers online, but it's not their fault it's the basic setup of online that is at fault. 2 simple additions to online would ensure you would never have to worry about getting caught up behind bad drivers

- 1 lap qualifying before each race to ensure the good drivers start up front

- race length extended from 6 minutes to 10 or more to ensure enough time to pass drivers cleanly without being in too much of a hurry

Click to expand...

I agree 100% with lap qualifying. I really like that idea and i don't think there is any reason it can't be done...They should have you qualify, then connect to the race. Basically, in the same spot where you can tune your car before you connect in the game. After that, it should just post the best scores on qualify and fit you where you need to be. Great idea.

Its seem pretty resonable those overtaking points, but mostly people go very wide in corner that are not overtaking zones. But on daytona before the chicane really looks like a overtake spot.

Beefaben

My 2c.. Dont expect to be able to win a close race simply by following the race line. The race line is the quickest line round the track, but this will leave you open to passing oportunities from other cars.. (ignoring Amatuer v Amatuer racing) which means if your racing hard with another person with some skill, you are going to get taken, most likely by a late brake block pass manouver off the racing line.
If your happy to drive around the track on the race line, dont get upset if a car does stuff it up the inside of you into Degner, for example, forcing you on to the brakes.. but thats racing.
Defending your line into a corner is a skill within itself.. you wont be setting quicker lap times but you are removing an overtaking oportunity from the person behind you.

...again all this comes down to the level of person your racing against. A noob who has left the door open probably wont like you poking your nose in under brakes and will probably assume that as he is on the racing line he has the right of way, and you can expect to get hit. Someone with some racecraft will accept they just got taken and will look to return the favour.

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Definitely agree with this. But a lot of ppl online just decide to smoke you whenever you pull up beside them going into a corner...

Nice..But Suzuka's First turn is a scary place to be when theres people behind you. Your just hoping He/She won't go straight through your exhaust pipe..lol..

L_Hamilton

Nice..But Suzuka's First turn is a scary place to be when theres people behind you. Your just hoping He/She won't go straight through your exhaust pipe..lol..

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I feel you there brother...Its a 50/50 chance your rear bumper ends up it what should be your back seat. I always hope I have a GTP member behined me when I start Suzuka.

Heh, the only clean passes I've made on Suzuka were in the esses...

Of course It's not me that makes the passes dirty... lol.

Good work, pretty solid advice, even though the esses are really a great place to pass if it's an inexperienced driver sliding across the road cause he didn't properly prepare for the entire turn, and then get prepared for the second one!

I think all great advices given here should be applicable with considering racers are more or less at the same driving skill/level.

For sure, some moves can take place on differents places but always with a safety margin which will not ruin opponents or yourself race. Most of the time, when you have some differents opportunities, it's mainly because of a mistake from the guy in front of you. I even get sometimes great pleasure pushing someone to the fault rather than making the brakes to pass.

But all we can do in theses (poor) online rules with plenty of newbies, rammers, etc, is to gain safe lines to pass and sometimes simply avoid mess around the turns. Don't also forget that we're in a game and safety margin is quite narrow from real life where you will not take the same risks (and other racers too).

It's the way I race when I get a same level opponent : only pass on safe spots, slow down when I'm passed, avoid collisions, check mirrors to see what moves take place behind me. And I often have to slow down my lap behind someone just to wait the right place to pass/overtake (or wait for the fault, mine too often). Issue: fast peoples behind me don't have the same patience.
On Suzuka track, I noticed lately that my races are betters when I start from the bottom of the starting grid because of 2 or 3 firsts turns mess. That's some sort of patience too.

Well Earth I do agree with you 100% on clean passes and where to pass. What is safe to pass and what is not safe. However with only 3 or 5 laps to make a pass I can't really used safe places to pass. Besides the fact I already loose tons of time at suzuka waiting on a place to pass. Its just a joke to be able to have a REAL race within 3 laps. I think that for expert mode online they should have it at 10-15 laps at those tracks to give a competitor a chance to run some kind of race.

If I see a hole I take it, because if I don't I will loose more time and it is already hard enough to gain time on a leader in 3 laps races. If I had more time at Suzuka I would probably run better there, because I wouldn't feel like I am in a rush to get to the hostpital for my new born. Do you know what I mean?

A large part of the online madness is the rush poeople are in to get to the front. So I can see where WIN AT ALL COST comes into play. But that is a whole another converstation there.

I like it though, safe and not safe places to pass.

I agree with the OP in as far as a race among equals is concerned. However, in the general morass of GT5P online there are so many places where you can assume you'll get through against the average muppet.

Especially:

Any long, fast corner - average idiot will understeer way off the inside line.

Any hairpin - They either overshoot into the gravel or brake midway round giving an opportunity to pass inside or out (whichever they leave open) if you're on the ball and able to react quick enough.

Hmmmm.

The OP stated that Turn 1 is a great place to pass and I disagree. It's probably the worst place to attempt an overtaking manouvre simply because it's way too quick (3rd/4th gear) and if you're to have any chance of successfully making a pass stick, you need to be well in front on the approach.

I never take turn one offline - it's difficult enough at 160km/h with the brakes half on whilst trying to pick your approach into turn 2 without being offline. Only a madman would attempt a pass under brakes going into turn one.

The hairpin is a great place to pass - it can be tricky if you're too far behind, but 90% of the passing that's done on the hairpin is done on the exit of the corner, not on the approach.

Spoon... hmmm a bit dubious there. Rarely do I see a successful pass under brakes going into spoon where both drivers keep in on the blacktop. The braking zone for the approach into Spoon is actually diagonally across the circuit and is rather short (downshift two gears, one if you're in a Corvette, hehe).

The back straight is easy game, but I believe that you should stick to your line and not weave backwards and forwards. The approach into 130R should be settled by the time you cross the sector split. You're either in or your out.

Casio, once again, I think you should pick your line rather early after hurtling out of 130R. I despise people who middle-road the approach to Casio when you're on their tail. You're forced to choose inside or outside line and whichever one you do take, the driver in front often squeezes you hard under brakes. Getting on the grass at Casio is game over when you're trying to slow down from over 130mph.

Which brings me back to the esses. Now an inexperienced driver will tend to bugger up the esses when you place them under pressure and all you need to do is wait for them to drift a little wide on the exit to the right hander before Dunlop and you're in. But if you cross over on this right hander and the guy who has drifted wide keeps it all together and you're not quite in front, then you have to take the outside line through Dunlop, all the way to to degna 1. If you're still side-by-side (and I doubt it) then who concedes at degna?

I don't agree with the idea that 'he who has the racing line should be prepared for overtaking manouvres and needs to slow down.' That's rubbish talk. The guy who has the racing line does not need to slow down so people can overtake him. He can go as fast as he damn well likes and it's the onus of the guy behind who has to pressure the driver into making a mistake.

People who see gaps when there are none (we've all done it) shouldn't say that the driver who was in front and had the line should have moved out of the way. The people who make the pass have the responsibility to do it in the cleanest possible way without 'barging through'. It's like a fat kid at a party who knocks everyone over to get to the icecream and then says "I was hungry."

Turn1 on suzuka is a doddle if you're in a 4wd. MR cars are harder cos speedchecking aint so easy.

Basically just follow the other car through t1 until just before the braking zone for t2 then cut inside for the line on exit.

Depends how your opponent reacts. if he brakes on the line, you have to be ready to speedcheck and abort the move, hence it aint easy in an MR. But about half the time he'll freak out and try to outrun you, cooking the braking zone and running wide or off the track - either of which means I get my mojo on.

In an MR it's possible to powerslide round the inside and get the drop on the exit, especially if your opponent goes wide. This is much harder but worth trying, at worst he gets the inside line into the esses but, even then, you're in a good position to pile the pressure on.

There are no absolutes in this game. I push my opponents pretty hard in the hope they'll make a mistake. When they do you can find yourself with a chance to overtake in the damndest of places. I recently managed to pull off that same 130R overtake that BreakerOhio made ITT
Not the easiest move but it's soo cool I had to do it.

There is really little need for impatience, I have won from last place a surprising amount of times and once I even got into first place after hairpin curve on the first lap. How? quite easy everyone infront either fell off or made contact I only had to make one genuine overtake in the first half of the lap.

Its not always garenteed that people will crash out straight away but you can normally count on some mistakes, which if you keep your nose clean should give you 4 places by default. Then the prospect of overtaking the other 8 people isn't that inconcievable and such doesn't require any questionable overtaking manouvres. If you consider some drivers will be battling hard and slowing each other down, its quite easy to leap frog both in the one draft. With 4 main draft opportunities aslong as you have the pace to catch the your oppenents then there are sufficient overtaking oppertunities at suzuka. One more thing to consider is that you have a handicap system which will help you catch the leader.

Many people think they are obliged to win from whatever grid position they start in, if I start in last then I will be happy if I finish on 3rd, and if fortune has it that an oppertunity opens up allowing the victory then thats even better. What I won't do is charge through the pack making every corner an overtake regardless of whether there is a realistic safe pass or not and ruining everyone elses races while I cruise to victory, at the expense of all the other racers.

I am glad to say that I have yet to see a driver displaying the GTP tag who use such a tactic, but that isn't true for many other racers, I have seen quite a few decent drivers who will barge others out the way just for the racing line.

I think this overtaking oppertunity thread was good idea, unfotunatly I bet the people who do read it are the people who already have high standards in overtaking and a generally fair approach to overtaking.

Good Thread anyeay Earth. 👍

P3nT4gR4m

Turn1 on suzuka is a doddle if you're in a 4wd. MR cars are harder cos speedchecking aint so easy.

Basically just follow the other car through t1 until just before the braking zone for t2 then cut inside for the line on exit.

Not the easiest move but it's soo cool I had to do it.

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So turn one isn't an overtaking place then... good to know.

Exit of turn 2, yeah sure I'm up for that, provided myself or the other driver makes a hash of it. But that's pretty hard to do with decent drivers these days as they all tend to cover their line pretty well.

What I don't like though is people who stuff it up the inside of turn 2 when you're coming off the brakes from turn 1 and cutting in towards the apex.

If a driver in a AWD car takes a tighter line through turn 1 and they're within a car length of you, does that give them the right to attempt a manouver up the inside of turn 2?

Quick question regarding 130r on the Suzuka track.

Most people execute this corner from the outside (right side) of the track as it enables the driver to maintain maximum speed into and down the straight leading to Casio. It the safest and most efficient approach angle for the turn.

Here is an example of the situation in question:

I have been in a number of races where I led all the way down the straight. The car behind me is drafting me or slowly gaining. Unable to successfully pass, he moves into the far left side of the track. I can hear his car to my left, but I cannot see that him at all. I determine that he has not gained sufficient overlap (or any overlap for that matter) to "own the line". I tap the brakes and downshift (if necessary) and cut the wheel to the left towards the rumble strips on the outside of the straight leading to Casio. The driver who was trying to overtake (at the last possible moment) from the inside of this fast corner either smacks right into me as I execute the turn properly or he cuts right out in front of me and I collide into him.

In this situation, who has the right of way?

I personally feel that the driver on the inside of that particular corner would be at fault. It is a high speed corner that most requires most cars to make some sort of adjustment to their speed to cleanly transition form one straight to the next. He may be able to execute the turn, but at a much slower rate of speed. There is no time for the driver on the outside to react to something like that in a split second. A collision is inevitable. When I am in this situation...and it happens often...I usually just slow a bit and let him on through. I don't want my race to end as I have lost so many to this one turn in the track for this very reason. However, I do think the "technique" used by the driver on the inside is discourteous. I would associate it with "crossing your fingers and hoping for the best."

At this point, I think everyone has had this happen to them at least once.

What are your opinions on this matter?

P357 just highlighted stupidity at it's very best.

It's a perfect example of what goes on at Suzuka with impatient, discourteous drivers who can't possibly wait until Casio to make their move.

Overtaking on the inside of 130R is suicide. I draft people all the time up into that corner but I never attempt to pass them, I'll just sit on their tail and follow them through as best as I can before making a move on Casio.

But there are numbskulls out there who think that a 200km/h kink is a passing zone.