What is The Fascination With Tyre Restrictions?

The Grim Reaper

The Grim Reaper

1,421
England
England / UK
GTP_Grim_Reaper
I was just wondering why so many people want tyre restrictions during onlines races?

Why?

It seems silly to me to want to restrict yourself, when you could be going faster & harder. It just does not add up when you look at the real world, for example You Don't see Lewis Hamilton turning to Mclaren and saying "I want tyres with no grip", It just don't happen.

So give me some reasons as to why it is a good idea or bad idea.
 
It is fun to try and see who has the skills to control an extremely heavy, high performance car and muscle it around a winding track on less than optimum tyres.

That's it and that's all. It's just plain fun to me. If your logic was applied to an extreme why bother racing 600pp cars? Why not just make the limit 1000pp for every single race so we can race the F2007 every time since that allows us to race the fastest?

Also, the tyres and pp have NOTHING to do with how hard you race. If anything I usually race harder and push the envelope more with lower performance cars. Am I going faster than I would be in the F2007 with the best tyres? Of course not but I am certainly driving on the edge(and sitting at the edge of the seat) much more than I am in the F2007.
 
Even when restrictions are not in place, everybody will be using the optimum tyre selection for a given PP level and track. If you don't you will be left behind. So even without 'official' restrictions, you will be restricted. ;)

As for the real world example: in the real world there are always almost restrictions, you can't just pick any tyre you want.

Personally, I don't care about restrictions, but given the choice, I'd rather be able to select the tyre I want myself. :) Remember we can create events in an event, so we can create restricted races inside an unrestricted event if we want. :)
 
My opinion is that using race tyres on a slow vehicle is overkill, and unrealistic. How many people at your local track days do you see swap on slicks when they get to tracks? Almost none? How many cars on the road are on slicks? None.

It's fun to have a realistic driving experience.
 
IMO it depends on the car you are driving. If it’s a heavy powered race car like the Z06, Ford GT, Amuse or the Viper (tuned or not) I think you need the R tires. The Evo’s and Imprezza’s wil do nice on the S tires and the N tires for cars the lower PP FWD cars.

I prefer the R tires. Because of the simple fact we are there to race so you need Race tiers. If you go ice-skating you also not put on soccer shoes :lol:

So please no tires restrictions for me
 
yes it ok to be realistic but its a game also so the competitive instinct is on.. so you want your car to suit your driving style.. so if some one needs alitle more grip to go faster in the corners i think it is up to each driver to select what they want..
 
I prefer the challenge. Its more interesting and exciting racing with lesser tyres. Racing the 10lapper suzuka today with the F40 on R1's was boring as, not only was i being dropped quickly, it was no challenge getting around the circuit. Had to push really hard to get any tire spin out of the car. I like it when its restricted to S or N class tyres. Although i prefer the freedom of choice from say the range of S tyres rather than just stuck to S2's for example. But i find R tyres boring unless your racing the superclass cars.
 
lion-face
I prefer the challenge. Its more interesting and exciting racing with lesser tyres. Racing the 10lapper suzuka today with the F40 on R1's was boring as, not only was i being dropped quickly, it was no challenge getting around the circuit. Had to push really hard to get any tire spin out of the car. I like it when its restricted to S or N class tyres. Although i prefer the freedom of choice from say the range of S tyres rather than just stuck to S2's for example. But i find R tyres boring unless your racing the superclass cars.
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+1 R tyres should be disabled in expert events!
Hey i will make a new thread about this and maybe PD will hear us :D
 
Paulie
My opinion is that using race tyres on a slow vehicle is overkill, and unrealistic. How many people at your local track days do you see swap on slicks when they get to tracks?
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Nearly everyone actually. Tires and weight reduction are the 2 single most effective upgrades you can do to a car. Where else can you buy better acceleration, handling, braking and just overall control for 400 bucks?

Ever been to an autocross? There's plenty of people simply running DOT slicks on bone stock cars.

That's also why I feel tire restrictions should be allowed.
 
Paulie
My opinion is that using race tyres on a slow vehicle is overkill, and unrealistic. How many people at your local track days do you see swap on slicks when they get to tracks? Almost none? How many cars on the road are on slicks? None.

It's fun to have a realistic driving experience.
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Paulie,

One of the reasons I didn't like the previous online update was that to me the tyre restrictions made the whole thing un-realistic. No matter what car was driven it was like driving on ice all the time. So to be honest I did not find racing on N or S rated tyres very realistic. In fact none of the tyre ratings seem to be very realistic at times. Maybe if PD actually made them more realistic, It would be better as you could realistically compare to life, at the moment the tyre ratings I find hard to compare to real life comparisons.



Rash_182, That has got to be the silliest thing I have ever heard.

Why ban R class tyres from all Expert events. What happens when the full game appears and you are racing DTM's, Le Mans, & JTC cars? Do they run on stock tyres in real life? NO.

That sort of idea would take away the games motto, "The Real Driving Simulator".
 
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ban r tyres is just plain stupid...
its ok if we get private rooms then we can choose for us self what we want the rca to have tyre restricion or not .. tyre restriction is just stupid.. in any race all around the world you can choose what type of tyre you want on your car why the hell should the game be any different...

private rooms will solve this anyways so its just to waith for it ..
 
Rtires is glued to track.. no spin, no scary moments, whats fun with that..?? R tire dont belong on other than race cars..
 
mr_VOLCANO
Rtires is glued to track.. no spin, no scary moments, whats fun with that..?? R tire dont belong on other than race cars..
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Totally agree, they are for race cars. But PD need to make the tyre ratings a little less like driving on ice. You are one of the lucky few that manage no matter the tyre
 
Perfect Balance
Nearly everyone actually. Tires and weight reduction are the 2 single most effective upgrades you can do to a car. Where else can you buy better acceleration, handling, braking and just overall control for 400 bucks?

Ever been to an autocross? There's plenty of people simply running DOT slicks on bone stock cars.

That's also why I feel tire restrictions should be allowed.
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When I look at things like road rallies and production based race series they normally run semi-slicks (S tyres), I'm not sure if we even have autocrosses in our area. Weight reduction sure, but that has nothing to do with the tyre conversation.
Oh, and if you can pick up 4 slicks for $400 send me some, they're probably closer to well over $1000 each in Australia. I remember them saying that a V8 Supercar racing slick is worth something like $2000 each, and they're only 17"!

Edit: Additionally, when I go to a track day I doubt I will have a spare set of tyres to burn through, I'm not rich enough. The again, by the end my road tyres would be dead too, oh well, wait til I'm earning more money.

The Grim Reaper
Paulie,

One of the reasons I didn't like the previous online update was that to me the tyre restrictions made the whole thing un-realistic. No matter what car was driven it was like driving on ice all the time. So to be honest I did not find racing on N or S rated tyres very realistic. In fact none of the tyre ratings seem to be very realistic at times. Maybe if PD actually made them more realistic, It would be better as you could realistically compare to life, at the moment the tyre ratings I find hard to compare to real life comparisons.
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Never once felt like I was driving on ice since getting a wheel, and the last physics update. When you become accustomed to R tyres you will notice it big time when you step back to N3s for example. Although if you look in the tyre guide many sports cars use S1 tyres. You drive a stock 350Z (which if you remember in real life is still a fast car) on S1 tyres and if you still have problems with grip then I propose you're not driving quite right.
 
Any underpowered car (say under 650pp) with R tyres is boring. AWD and FWD are basically just brake, turn in, floor it. RWD is the same except you get a small amount of oversteer - nothing which is difficult to handle. S and N tyres offer a completely different experience, RWD is a lot more twitchy and offers a lot more sideways moments.

It offers more of a challenge - yes, you can't go as fast as usual but it's so much more fun getting there. I'm guessing only those who appreciate the lower PP events will appreciate a lack of R tyres.

Some people just want to go as fast as possible and that's cool. But some people don't :)
 
touche. make R compound disappear from road cars, or make some R Special Event so that all drivers that are here because of finesse can safely bypass that event.
 
The Grim Reaper
Totally agree, they are for race cars. But PD need to make the tyre ratings a little less like driving on ice. You are one of the lucky few that manage no matter the tyre
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All it takes is lots of practice. If it seems like you're "driving on ice" it's because you need to slow down. You're obviously pushing tires beyond their capabilities if you're having problems controlling your car.

I, for one, hope PD never wusses out on normal and sports tire simulation. Tires are supposed to have limits! :D

mr_VOLCANO
Rtires is glued to track.. no spin, no scary moments, whats fun with that..?? R tire dont belong on other than race cars..
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+ Rep 👍

Paulie
My opinion is that using race tyres on a slow vehicle is overkill, and unrealistic. How many people at your local track days do you see swap on slicks when they get to tracks? Almost none? How many cars on the road are on slicks? None.

It's fun to have a realistic driving experience.
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+ Rep 👍

bicycleshorts
Any underpowered car (say under 650pp) with R tyres is boring. AWD and FWD are basically just brake, turn in, floor it. RWD is the same except you get a small amount of oversteer - nothing which is difficult to handle. S and N tyres offer a completely different experience, RWD is a lot more twitchy and offers a lot more sideways moments.

It offers more of a challenge - yes, you can't go as fast as usual but it's so much more fun getting there. I'm guessing only those who appreciate the lower PP events will appreciate a lack of R tyres.

Some people just want to go as fast as possible and that's cool. But some people don't :)
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+ Rep again 👍

Yup, it's more fun driving a production car on lesser tires..getting them to slip around a tad...why anyone would want to make a Silvia handle like it's on rails? I don't get that.

This entire discussion goes back to GT, GT2, and GT3, in which there ARE no tire restrictions. This means all the cheaters put super-soft tires on if they could afford them, and blow away the Sunday Cup cars, which were all on normal tires. 👎

Going a little off topic here. This will probably never happen, but i hope PD simulates tires as they are supposed to wear out...you'd never tires gone within 3 laps, for instance (even soft tires).
 
Theres nothing wrong going fast,its about how your car respons when doing that.RWD 650pp on R1s is boring,unless you are using 'the PAD'. :)
 
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I can see both sides to this and Im still unsure if tyre restrictions are good or bad. Theres my thoughts:

Good:
You can set the car up how you want. Gives you more control and lets you set the car up for you. Some cars need higher grip tyres and having set tyres means they are undrivable on most online event selections, they are left out.

Bad:
Punters. Comes down to this Im afraid. Punters and unclean drivers. They dont care about how to keep the car on the track, just wrecking your race. They choose low grip tyre to give them a faster top speed. They hold you put in the corners. Block when you try and pass them in the twisty bits. Then when the straights come, blast past you and bump you out the way / use you as a brake.

Edit: Back to this R tyre debate. I think R tyres belong on cars over 700PP. Then you have enough power to actually brake traction and you have "heart in the mouth" moments.
 
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Wow , good debate going on here , my .02 :
Myself and others in this forum are not new to the online racing thing , we can call ourselves "veterans". We have been doing this since day 1 , we have all went through the "learning curve" of the physics involved in this game,especially the tire issue N's,S's,R's,what to use ? While the general concensus is S tires,what about the newbie,he is going to bolt on a set of S tires,crank up the power,go racing and probably not like it (lack of experience),now he bolts on a set of R tires,the car comes around,ang he is a happy camper,he feels like he is doing something now,the cars is less likely to go off track,it's more controllable for him.He will graduate as he learns the tire and car physics more.

True , N and S tires give it a more of a driving sim,makes you a sharper driver,will not argue this at all.
Think of the newbies that just got this game for Christmas,you just can't throw them into the fire and mandate S tires,give them a chance,let them learn,it will come to them.

Until the private rooms come,there is nothing any of us can do about tire selection,if there are no rules,then it's open season,run what ya brung,just go out have fun,that is what it is all about.
 
The Grim Reaper
I was just wondering why so many people want tyre restrictions during onlines races?

Why?

It seems silly to me to want to restrict yourself, when you could be going faster & harder. It just does not add up when you look at the real world, for example You Don't see Lewis Hamilton turning to Mclaren and saying "I want tyres with no grip", It just don't happen.

So give me some reasons as to why it is a good idea or bad idea.
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Does real life racing has tire restrictions too? Well that's why I love it. Makes everyone bit more equal, and makes you change suspension settings for more grip.
 
As been said, 'some people want to go fast. Others dont.' Theres a strong Rubiks Cube mentality out there, one that simply relishes the challenge (of street tire traction (so-called.)) Its very very easy to make a driving sim more difficult than the real thing. Its a no brainer. You just reduce traction. Loads of guys will love it because its a challenge. It doesnt matter that its slower.
 
I personally enjoy racing on all the tires, although I believe each tire has its place. For example R comps are best for the beastly PP700-800 cars, while racing low-moderate powered (~PP500-650) cars I find most enjoyable with N or Sport tires. The R comps are challenging in their own respect though...especially in reality 👍. I find it funny when people say that driving on R comps isn't challenging enough, YET their lap times are 2-3 seconds off the pace of the Elite drivers. :dunce: The R comps increase the braking and cornering abilities of the vehicle drastically. To put in a quick lap with the R tires requires quicker reflexes and judgements...something very important to say a Formula 1 driver. Also, when R comps (in real life as well) do break traction they have a tendency to break traction extremely quickly at the limit and with little noise, requiring much quicker reactions to keep the car inline. It's not all about keeping the car straight and undercontrol...pick the pace up of the cars braking and cornering abilities and lets see if you can drive into, through, and out of the corners at the threshold of the cars ability running the OPTIMAL line.

I have a good amount of experience racing real cars on both street tires, Nitto R-comps, and then full Hoosier R6 slicks. I suggest some of you go drive a higher hp car around a circuit with both street tires and then a Hoosier slick. Driving on the Hoosier slick at the absolute limit is much more nerve racking than on a street tire. The limit is drastically raised, the tires make little to no noise at the limit, and when the tires do break away you better make sure your steering corrections are spot on and lightening quick. Street tires give you a much better awareness of where the limit is, and when they do break traction it is at a much slower and controllable rate. I'm not sure if GT5P simulates this quite as well as it could...at least in the regards to the challenge of driving a car with R comps. Once the Fanatec GT3 wheel comes out and I pick one up hopefully I will be able to provide some insight. With a controller it's a bit hard to make any justifiable comparison lol
 
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well its ok to put on S tires for people that knows how to tune the car.. i havent got that skill or time so when i put on S tires it feels like racing on ice...
that is why i like to put on R tires to get more grip and a more stabile car..
 
I personally hate tire restrictions as well but not because I want more grip but because I want to drift and N2's-S3's are amazing if you have at least 700pp.
 
Tyre restrictions for some events are peculiar. Suzuka RWD PP550 is a perfect example. It's basically a club event for obtainable sport cars. You wouldn't show up at a club meet with N1 rubber on your Dodge Viper SRT10. People would think you were mentally challenged no matter how much skill you were trying to demonstrate.

Just exclude the big American muscle and the Italian exotic rather than hobble these cars with ridiculous and unrealistic options.

Edit: Speaking of "unrealistic options", how about the F2007 at Fuji on N tyres. How long do you think N rubber would last on the back of a Formula 1 car? Who makes budget rubber that wide anyway?
 
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Ravenmaven
Tyre restrictions for some events are peculiar. Suzuka RWD PP550 is a perfect example. It's basically a club event for obtainable sport cars. You wouldn't show up at a club meet with N1 rubber on your Dodge Viper SRT10. People would think you were mentally challenged no matter how much skill you were trying to demonstrate.
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well said m8... i was waiting for this events! i was tired of 750PP only with monsters... now we can drive a M3/NSX/350Z/599...etc and be competitive 👍
 

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