As for the exaggerated movements (as with the Simbol), I think you are still missing the point by a country mile.
No, I'm not. My English isn't good enough to explain what I mean. Like I said, I understand now that a motion sim needs these exaggerated movements to create G-forces. Afterall, a motion sim doesn't really move (travel from A to B), so I understand what you all mean that a motion sim needs these exaggerated movements to
simulate G-forces. And again, I was wrong in that department and I changed my opinion accordingly.
But, G-forces/forces in general simulation aside, the movements of a motion chair aka Bluetiger, Simbol and other motion Chairs/platforms are not realistic compared to the the motions a car creates when travelling from A to B.
I'm not talking about
G-forces, forces working acting against it when a car is driving, I'm talking about the movements itself. If you're playing a F1 race game and you use these motion chairs, the
movements (not the forces) of the motion chair is not correct in relation with the motions of the F1 car ingame or the movements of a real F1 car. I have never seen a real race car, F1 car, standard road car that rolls that many degrees like the chair. And that's my point I have trying to make.
The movements are unnatural. No real car pitches or rolls that excessively like these motion chairs.
Again, I get it now that you need these excessive movements to simulate G-forces.
And like I've always said, put a chair like the Simbol in a dark room were you can't see a fixed point (wall, window etc...), you probably won't know that you're moving excessively, like you also said, hence my stories about that film studio park in Burbank CA.
A vehicle is in motion. There are always forces acting against it. Your motion simulation cockpit is static. There are no forces acting against it. To make up for the static nature of a simulator, the simulator must exaggerate the movements to "accurately" simulate the forces at work.
I know what you are talking about but you don't seem to get what I mean. I explained it above.
As has been said over and over again, if the unit was completely enclosed, you would literaly not have any idea the simulator is tilting as much as it is. Without any way for your eyes to see the true motion, your brain interprets it in reference to what you are seeing on screen.
I know, I was the first one to make a similar remark in this thread.
Remeber:
F34R
I think the steep angles are simulating the forces, not angles. The dips, raisers, rolls, etc., aren't there to simulate what the car does. They are simulating the forces on the body in certain situations.
If that's the case, then they are not succeeding. The only way this kind of motion sim has some effects is when you're
using it in a dark room with a very big screen in front of you, fooling your brain that you're actually moving.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3740870&postcount=7
Again, you really need to try one so you can see what we're talking about.
Yes, I agree with you 100%. I need to try one out and see for myself. Maybe I'll change my mind about the excessive movements.
Without the "exaggerated" motions, it really does feel like being on top of one of those little childrens toys outside of old grocery stores that shake when you put coins in them.
And again, I wasn't talking about how it
feels/forces. I was talking about the movements of the chair itself. It clearly show that you don't get what
I'm talking about.
What you call "unnatural" is actually much closer to being accurate.
Again, you don't seem to get what I'm talking about. A real car doesn't
behave like the Simbol chair. And again, I know that you need these movements to
simulate G-forces if you're not in an enclosed motion sim or in a dark room.
Well said. This is exactly why you
need more range of motion than your average motion simulator to accurately simulate what the vehicle "
feels like" to drive under various conditions.
No, no, no ..... no!
The best motion sim is a 6 DOF (very expensive, unaffordable) enclosed or in a dark room, which doesn't need excessive movements!
I use to play GT4 with a VR glasses. (
i-Glasses click here).
The biggest advantage using one of these is the have the
feeling that you're really driving. These glasses with a head tracking device and in full stereoscopic 3D and a motion chair with little movements is the best way to play race games.
Disadvantages:
- you don't see your cockpit, wheel, shifter, keyboard etc... .
- you get dizzy because your eyes tells your brain you're moving at high speed but your body tells your brain your sitting still and when you move your head the images of the game stay static which is very confusing for your brain.
- electromagnetic radiation and electric field created by these glasses is not really healthy.
simbolrides
Secondly...as I stated in my first post; your motion preferences are up to you and everybody has a different idea of what they want.
Yes, I agree! And I don't like the airplanenish motions created by these kind off motion sims for a race car sim.
simblorides
This is the reason why all of our motion profiles are user-adjustable specific to each motion value.
And I'll give you another 👍 for that.
simbolrides
If you don't like the G-force you can turn it down or off.
You also seem to be missing my point and like I said before, it's a personal opinion. I'm not talking about the G-forces. If the Simbol doesn't create G-forces, than what's the point of having a motion chair.
I'm talking about the movements your chair makes. An airplane pitches and rolls like that but not a car. And before we start off again discussing G-forces versus movements, I know and understand that you need the excessive movements to simulate G-forces unless you put a motion chair in a dark room, than you don't need these excessive movements anymore.
That's my whole point I was trying to make from the beginning.
kikie
You should call your Simbol chair a motion G-force simulator but not amotion simulator because you're not simulating the motions of a real car.
I have to correct myself. I was wrong. It
is a motion simulator. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that.
I've just google for motion simulators and it seems that I'm going to be able to try one out.
http://www.motionforsimulators.com/0000009b961447a03/index.html
It's just one and a ½ hour drive to get there and maybe I'm going to be able to try out the SimConBase from Frex as well. And maybe after trying out these motion sims, I'll change my mind and agree with you all in every aspect that has been discussed here.
Look they also you a flight sim as reference or game to develop their motion platforms
Some examples of what I mean
You can clearly see that the pitch and roll is minimized to the minimum
Not enough DOF's
http://www.f1showcar.com/IMAGEgallery7.htm
From the same company and clearly NOT what I mean
Go to youtube and read some of the comments. It seems that I'm not the only one that has questions about the movements of this motion simulator!
I started writing this post a few hours ago. In the mean time I tried to dind as much information as possible on the internet. I was also trying to find the youtube clip of the Toyota's Driving Simulator, which I have found.
It seems that the most accurate and expensive driving simulator uses excessive roll and pitch as well, forcing me to admit that I could be totally wrong!
I'm not going to edit this post because;
- I've spend a lot of time writing this post
- and I want to show you all how pig headed I can be.
The SSK-301
You cas clearly see that this motion sim is also Rolling and Pitching, although not a steep as the Simbol.
from a person on youtube
A motion simulator isn't so much about matching the orientation of a real life car on a track; it's about recreating the forces acting on the driver, combined with realistic visuals, which allows a drivers brain to perceive a realistic sense of speed, acceleration, and track feedback.
This is a very accurate and simple description of what you guys have been trying to tell me. I get it now!
)
, as the information contained within may actually be usefull to anyone with similar questions/reservations.
