Finally understood GT5

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Jeanr

Jeanr

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Papai Jean
Hi, guys!

After reading so much complains - and doing some by myself - I think I have finally understood what is behind the decisions made by PD for the last GT series game: they want us to own and race every car in the game. And, they let our game experience be defined by our decisions.

They had a lot of effort to recreate, with great detail levels, some of the most desired cars in the world (despite the fact A LOT of those cars stayed out of the game, and the HUGE amount of Japanese cars. Well, this is a Japanese game, right?). So, how to make the gamers note that? By forcing them to buy those cars. How?

- Paint item: wouldn’t be A LOT easier to have a palette with all the cars colors on the game, in the Paintshop? So you could choose the color you want? Yes, but the way it were made, if you want to paint your car with the Ford Focus Electric Orange, you will have to buy a Ford Focus. Well, since you bought the car, why don’t drive it, right? Touché! They made you race the car.
- XP points/cars LVL: on previous GT games, there were a few tips that help you make money really fast (like the Toyota RSC Rally Car on GT4). Then you could buy a Suzuki Pikes Peak and smoke any opponent, on any race. Not anymore. Now, if you follow the game evolution, you must enter the proper car on the proper competition, because you don’t have enough money/XP to buy a high level car. This increases the game experience.
- Small amount of races: the GT4 were a marathon to finish (I spend 2 ½ years to make 100% - I played other games in the meantime). And, most of the time was like working, and not having fun. On GT5, if you enjoy a race, try it with a different car (the one you have bought for the color item!!!). It will give you a new experience, and will help you to grind money and XP. And, now, we have the Online races!
- Impossibility to sell cars/cars rewarded only once: this makes the cars more valuable. Since you can’t win them again, you better take good care of them! And, it helps to do not make a lot of money in a short time, ruining the game experience (like the Toyota RSC…).

And, if you think the game is too easy, try to enter the race with a car tuned just like the others cars racing. Or, turn off all assists. Still too easy? Well, why don’t you try race with an underpowered car? This will make your game experience much richer!

With that in mind, I now enjoy much more the game!

I still did not figured out why is not possible to save during a Championship anymore. That is, for me, greatest let down on the game.

So, what you guys think?
 
Boy I would have loved a save feature on that Formula GT championship.

But I agree, I have the biggest car collection in this game so far than I did in GT 2/3/4
 
I get you :)

They want you to earn your cars this time round! BUT why have they added these seasonal sevents then which can level you upto level 20 without even touching any of A spec? To me that has ruined it slightly for people who have just bought the game as it did have some structure to it. Now it doesn't. Im not complaining as it helped me level up to 30 and they were fun but i think they should of just given credits out.

All they had to do was put restrictions on each event in A spec like they have in Seasonal events to make it more competitive and enjoyable. LIke you say you can do this yourself but many won't.

I completed GT4 in 2 weeks second time around:) Everything 100% I managed to corrupt my game save so it was either chuck the PS2 out of the window or have 2 grueling weeks of getting it all back. The game wasn't as big as i first thought. GT5 would be impossible to finish in 2 weeks. I did continue to play GT4 for years though and i think GT5 will be the same.
 
GazRwood
BUT why have they added these seasonal sevents then which can level you upto level 20 without even touching any of A spec? To me that has ruined it slightly for people who have just bought the game as it did have some structure to it. Now it doesn't.
Click to expand...

True... But, you probably notice the amount of people complaining about grinding and stuff. PD is just trying to please everyone... They can't be black, or white, so they are getting kinda greyish, so is not perfect for anyone, but is OK for most of people.
 
Jeanr
Hi, guys!

After reading so much complains - and doing some by myself - I think I have finally understood what is behind the decisions made by PD for the last GT series game: they want us to own and race every car in the game. And, they let our game experience be defined by our decisions.

They had a lot of effort to recreate, with great detail levels, some of the most desired cars in the world (despite the fact A LOT of those cars stayed out of the game, and the HUGE amount of Japanese cars. Well, this is a Japanese game, right?). So, how to make the gamers note that? By forcing them to buy those cars. How?

- Paint item: wouldn’t be A LOT easier to have a palette with all the cars colors on the game, in the Paintshop? So you could choose the color you want? Yes, but the way it were made, if you want to paint your car with the Ford Focus Electric Orange, you will have to buy a Ford Focus. Well, since you bought the car, why don’t drive it, right? Touché! They made you race the car.
- XP points/cars LVL: on previous GT games, there were a few tips that help you make money really fast (like the Toyota RSC Rally Car on GT4). Then you could buy a Suzuki Pikes Peak and smoke any opponent, on any race. Not anymore. Now, if you follow the game evolution, you must enter the proper car on the proper competition, because you don’t have enough money/XP to buy a high level car. This increases the game experience.
- Small amount of races: the GT4 were a marathon to finish (I spend 2 ½ years to make 100% - I played other games in the meantime). And, most of the time was like working, and not having fun. On GT5, if you enjoy a race, try it with a different car (the one you have bought for the color item!!!). It will give you a new experience, and will help you to grind money and XP. And, now, we have the Online races!
- Impossibility to sell cars/cars rewarded only once: this makes the cars more valuable. Since you can’t win them again, you better take good care of them! And, it helps to do not make a lot of money in a short time, ruining the game experience (like the Toyota RSC…).

And, if you think the game is too easy, try to enter the race with a car tuned just like the others cars racing. Or, turn off all assists. Still too easy? Well, why don’t you try race with an underpowered car? This will make your game experience much richer!

With that in mind, I now enjoy much more the game!

I still did not figured out why is not possible to save during a Championship anymore. That is, for me, greatest let down on the game.

So, what you guys think?
Click to expand...

No.
 
Jeanr
- Paint item: wouldn’t be A LOT easier to have a palette with all the cars colors on the game, in the Paintshop? So you could choose the color you want? Yes, but the way it were made, if you want to paint your car with the Ford Focus Electric Orange, you will have to buy a Ford Focus. Well, since you bought the car, why don’t drive it, right? Touché! They made you race the car.
Click to expand...
They make me buy the cheapestt car with the colour that comes closest, only to let it rot in my garage. If I had an interest in racing the car, that's what I would've bought the car for. So no.

Jeanr
- XP points/cars LVL: on previous GT games, there were a few tips that help you make money really fast (like the Toyota RSC Rally Car on GT4). Then you could buy a Suzuki Pikes Peak and smoke any opponent, on any race. Not anymore. Now, if you follow the game evolution, you must enter the proper car on the proper competition, because you don’t have enough money/XP to buy a high level car. This increases the game experience.
Click to expand...
It's not increasing anything, it's just limiting the experience. besides, you're going to argue that one could make GT5 harder by oneself if it's too easy. Why shouldn't the same be true for GT4?

Jeanr
- Small amount of races: the GT4 were a marathon to finish (I spend 2 ½ years to make 100% - I played other games in the meantime). And, most of the time was like working, and not having fun. On GT5, if you enjoy a race, try it with a different car (the one you have bought for the color item!!!). It will give you a new experience, and will help you to grind money and XP. And, now, we have the Online races!
Click to expand...
With GT5, you have to grind away and 'work' like you did in GT4 as well. Only difference, you're doing the same stuff over and over. You're right about online racing, though.

Jeanr
- Impossibility to sell cars/cars rewarded only once: this makes the cars more valuable. Since you can’t win them again, you better take good care of them! And, it helps to do not make a lot of money in a short time, ruining the game experience (like the Toyota RSC…).
Click to expand...
Birthday exploit and backup exploit would have a word with you. There are no cars of value in GT5, period. Even the X2010 can be gotten by nicely asking someone to dupe it for you. Besides, a crappy car is still crappy, whether you can win it only once or a million times.

Jeanr
And, if you think the game is too easy, try to enter the race with a car tuned just like the others cars racing. Or, turn off all assists. Still too easy? Well, why don’t you try race with an underpowered car? This will make your game experience much richer!
Click to expand...
Limiting yourself is always a possibility. One that you didn't seem to aknowledge for GT4, though. So the criticsim seems kinda valid, doesn't it.

Jeanr
So, what you guys think?
Click to expand...
You're just making an effort to excuse the flaws in GT5, that's it.
 
GazRwood
I get you :)

They want you to earn your cars this time round! BUT why have they added these seasonal sevents then which can level you upto level 20 without even touching any of A spec? To me that has ruined it slightly for people who have just bought the game as it did have some structure to it. Now it doesn't. Im not complaining as it helped me level up to 30 and they were fun but i think they should of just given credits out.

All they had to do was put restrictions on each event in A spec like they have in Seasonal events to make it more competitive and enjoyable. LIke you say you can do this yourself but many won't.

I completed GT4 in 2 weeks second time around:) Everything 100% I managed to corrupt my game save so it was either chuck the PS2 out of the window or have 2 grueling weeks of getting it all back. The game wasn't as big as i first thought. GT5 would be impossible to finish in 2 weeks. I did continue to play GT4 for years though and i think GT5 will be the same.
Click to expand...

GT5 is more feasible to complete than GT4 in two weeks. I am a slightly above GT fan. I never got to 50 percent with GT4 after 4 years. I was at 50% in less than a week with GT5. The real question is how many hours have you spend on both. You finished GT4 in two weeks the second time (you know what works and what doesn't for a race). How long did it take you the first time. How many hours did you spend per day the second time around. Now on GT5 take out the level system and you can complete the game in less than 2-3 full days. PD knew it was short which is why they had to add it the leveling system. I will never finish 100% of GT5 because I hate b-spec and I hate/suck at rally.

The grinding to level and earn credit is a slow process. The seasonal events helps alot. The good thing about them is that its a one time deal unless you place better in the next race. Alot of people don't play this game 8+ hrs a day so it will take them alot longer to level up. This makes the deal alot sweeter in my opinion.

Luminis
You're just making an effort to excuse the flaws in GT5, that's it.
Click to expand...

I agree here. GT5 has flaws and in effort to please, they are doing all they can before the competition really blows them off the podium.
 
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This game seems a little Bi-Polar. On the one hand it seems to want to be a game, giving you XP levels and such. Yet on the other hand it is like the older GT games, a big toy box full of cars and you make your own fun.

Right now it's like an older GT game, but you can't use some of the toys until you are "old enough."

The gamers hate it, as it's not really a game and many of the older GT fans hate it because it's too much like a game.

Personally, I love GT5, but then again I love cars....all of them, even the Lupos and the Fiat 500s. Ignoring the XP system, GT5 pretty much lets you make your own fun.

There is a lot of freedom, I don't think the modern gamers see this. They just want to "beat" the game and move on.

I think this GT shows the big difference between East and West in reguard to gaming mentality. It's Call GT Life, that isn't just a name. GT5 is to be experienced in the long term, not rushed through.
 
Menown
This game seems a little Bi-Polar. On the one hand it seems to want to be a game, giving you XP levels and such. Yet on the other hand it is like the older GT games, a big toy box full of cars and you make your own fun.

Right now it's like an older GT game, but you can't use some of the toys until you are "old enough."

The gamers hate it, as it's not really a game and many of the older GT fans hate it because it's too much like a game.

Personally, I love GT5, but then again I love cars....all of them, even the Lupos and the Fiat 500s. Ignoring the XP system, GT5 pretty much lets you make your own fun.

There is a lot of freedom, I don't think the modern gamers see this. They just want to "beat" the game and move on.

I think this GT shows the big difference between East and West in reguard to gaming mentality. It's Call GT Life, that isn't just a name. GT5 is to be experienced in the long term, not rushed through.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more...
 
A lot of gt5's problems would be solved by adding a gt-psp-esque event creator to organize events yourself (with your choice of permitted cars and restrictions) that give xp and credits. It would add a ton of replay value (especially for the people who don't like online play) and the ability to set your own difficulty without having to resort to driving in cars and conditions you might not care about. Single-make events are alright but a bit too restrictive, if you ask me (and don't give xp/creds).
 
Menown
There is a lot of freedom, I don't think the modern gamers see this. They just want to "beat" the game and move on.

I think this GT shows the big difference between East and West in reguard to gaming mentality. It's Call GT Life, that isn't just a name. GT5 is to be experienced in the long term, not rushed through.
Click to expand...

I'd like to disagree with some of this. The leveling system is the opposite of freedom. For the first time in a GT game, you have to chose between making progress in the game or make your own fun.
Want to drive a certain car on a certain track? Okay, go looking for an appropriate event in GT5 only to find out that it's going to pay an incredibly small amount of XP.

making the player decide between having fun or progressing through the game is one of the dunbest things a game developer can do, in my opinion.
B-Spec is the best example for this. I can either take my favourite car to the track, or keep grinding B-Spec levels.

I just love to eperience GT5's physics engine, a beautiful car and a nice track all working together.
Going around Indianapolis a billion times in Corvette ZR-1 RM doesn't really do it for me, though.
 
Menown
This game seems a little Bi-Polar. On the one hand it seems to want to be a game, giving you XP levels and such. Yet on the other hand it is like the older GT games, a big toy box full of cars and you make your own fun.

Right now it's like an older GT game, but you can't use some of the toys until you are "old enough."

The gamers hate it, as it's not really a game and many of the older GT fans hate it because it's too much like a game.

Personally, I love GT5, but then again I love cars....all of them, even the Lupos and the Fiat 500s. Ignoring the XP system, GT5 pretty much lets you make your own fun.

There is a lot of freedom, I don't think the modern gamers see this. They just want to "beat" the game and move on.

I think this GT shows the big difference between East and West in reguard to gaming mentality. It's Call GT Life, that isn't just a name. GT5 is to be experienced in the long term, not rushed through.
Click to expand...

on the button, gt5 is a long term investment,think years of playing.
 
Menown
...There is a lot of freedom, I don't think the modern gamers see this. They just want to "beat" the game and move on.
Click to expand...
I also want to disagree with this :lol:

GT5 has some freedom, but not much by modern standards, especially for a racing simulator, and PD are marketing GT5 as a simulator. The trend that modern gamers are used to is towards free roaming type of gameplay. GT5 tries hard to be the opposite of that.

To me it looks like it's PD that wants us to attempt to "beat" the game by going through the motions to achieve freedom, eventually ending up grinding.

I'm one of those who have no particular wish to "beat" a simulator. I just want to race and collect cars. Granted I can do that, but not with a great deal of freedom.

An event editor, as has been suggested, is one way to realize, at least in part, the freedom potential of GT5 (there's still the level issue). I think PD has understood this, hence the seasonal events. I'm really hoping that an event editor will materialize at some point!

DJ
--
 
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Jeanr
- XP points/cars LVL: ...
Now, if you follow the game evolution, you must enter the proper car on the proper competition, because you don’t have enough money/XP to buy a high level car. This increases the game experience.
Click to expand...

Um, right. So I can't buy an Amuse S2000 GT1 till level 21 but they give me the Mazda Furai in a b-spec amateur race?
 
Menown
This game seems a little Bi-Polar. On the one hand it seems to want to be a game, giving you XP levels and such. Yet on the other hand it is like the older GT games, a big toy box full of cars and you make your own fun.

Right now it's like an older GT game, but you can't use some of the toys until you are "old enough."

The gamers hate it, as it's not really a game and many of the older GT fans hate it because it's too much like a game.

Personally, I love GT5, but then again I love cars....all of them, even the Lupos and the Fiat 500s. Ignoring the XP system, GT5 pretty much lets you make your own fun.

There is a lot of freedom, I don't think the modern gamers see this. They just want to "beat" the game and move on.

I think this GT shows the big difference between East and West in reguard to gaming mentality. It's Call GT Life, that isn't just a name. GT5 is to be experienced in the long term, not rushed through.
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this one. I never even considered "beating" or finishing the "game" until I read some of these posts. For me, this is a GREAT way to spend my free time in the evening. I love to drive. I have a BMW in real life, but can't even consider being able to ever own the vast majority of these cars. So, I have been given an opportunity to race them on some really intricately detailed tracks. When the graphics that PD created are paired with the force-feedback of the driving wheel, I feel like I am really in some of these cars. When I am taking a turn fast and the wheels slip... I actually feel that nervous sensation in my gut like on a real road.
I can't stop thinking about the game. For five weeks now I have been obsessed. Hell, I am on this forum right now... AT WORK. I must like the game.
 
yes, right now i am grinding on B-Spec cause i love collecting cars.

On some days, i go A-spec and enjoy it. I am not in a hurry to complete the game
 
Ughhh, I wrote "Ignoring the XP system, the game has a lot of freedom..." then I noticed my post was long and disorganized, so I rewrote and reorganized it, that line got lost in the shuffle.

By trying to appeal to two almost opposed camps (gamers and core GT fans) they have all but alienated both.

I would be interested to read some Japanese reviews and forum posts to see how they are accepting the new GT.
 
If I am racing, I am having fun.

I don't know about the rest of you, but we raced anything and everything that had wheels and could move. :)
 
Jeanr
- Paint item: wouldn’t be A LOT easier to have a palette with all the cars colors on the game, in the Paintshop? So you could choose the color you want? Yes, but the way it were made, if you want to paint your car with the Ford Focus Electric Orange, you will have to buy a Ford Focus. Well, since you bought the car, why don’t drive it, right? Touché! They made you race the car.
Click to expand...
Unless I immediately turn around and sell it in order to cover the costs of using the paint item.

Jeanr
- XP points/cars LVL: on previous GT games, there were a few tips that help you make money really fast (like the Toyota RSC Rally Car on GT4). Then you could buy a Suzuki Pikes Peak and smoke any opponent, on any race.
Click to expand...
If you wanted to. You didn't have to play the game that way, but you could if you wanted to.

Jeanr
Not anymore. Now, if you follow the game evolution, you must enter the proper car on the proper competition, because you don’t have enough money/XP to buy a high level car.
Click to expand...
Or you just do a couple special events, buy a high level car and play the game the exact same way, only this time the game is stupidly linear.

Jeanr
This increases the game experience.
Click to expand...
Yeah, if you played previous games in the series exactly the way PD had the game set up. If you didn't (and because the previous games let you do your own thing, this was likely), it basically ruins the game.

Jeanr
- Small amount of races: the GT4 were a marathon to finish (I spend 2 ½ years to make 100% - I played other games in the meantime). And, most of the time was like working, and not having fun.
Click to expand...
You mean like farming the Indianapolis race for credits?

Jeanr
On GT5, if you enjoy a race, try it with a different car (the one you have bought for the color item!!!). It will give you a new experience, and will help you to grind money and XP. And, now, we have the Online races!
Click to expand...
The obvious flaw being that we could already do this (better!) in previous GT games, except we could do it whenever we wanted rather than when the game forced us to do so.

Jeanr
- Impossibility to sell cars/cars rewarded only once: this makes the cars more valuable. Since you can’t win them again, you better take good care of them!
Click to expand...
Unless you have no interest in the (for the most part completely terrible) cars that the game awards you, at which point their inability to be won again or sold sticks out even more than before.

Jeanr
And, it helps to do not make a lot of money in a short time, ruining the game experience (like the Toyota RSC…).
Click to expand...
Ruining what game experience? I play GT2 to this day because the ease of getting credits from the very beginning of the game allows me nearly limitless freedom in playing the game the way I want to. Let me be clear about this: You are speaking in broad terms about ideas where such generalization simply doesn't apply.

Jeanr
So, what you guys think?
Click to expand...
To be frank, I think you are making up excuses for poor game design decisions (some of them even being objectively bad) and saying that those excuses (whether they adequately explain the problem or not) nullify said design decisions. Your ideas may very well be the exact reasoning that PD had when they designed GT5 the way that they did, but the decisions that the reasoning ultimately ended up leading to are still bad decisions.
 
A smart player will figure out how to extend the game's longevity on his own, with no hand-holding and restrictions from the game itself to hinder this. Compared to the other GT games I've played, GT5 is the most restrictive due to XP, the paint system, and various other odd design choices. And in the end, it's still easy to get everything in the game--easier, because there is simply less content in the career.

And while I still enjoy it a lot, this is not the direction in design that this game should take. I don't plan on being or feeling restricted when playing a simulator, where I can make my own fun with the right cars and number of tracks.
 

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