WTF is the DFGT doing on GT5?!?

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neemo6

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AWDdsm
Well ive had my dfgt for a couple of weeks now and have mostly been using it for iracing. I just got my ps3 back up and running and hooked up my wheel for the first time up to play GT5. Wow what a complete disapointment. Every car i used it felt like I have to correct the car due to having to fight the wheel. I took this video to show what it does on a straight away with a slight movement. The wheel feels like it moves all the time on its own and i have to fight it on every corner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjuGIXO19EA&feature=related
 
The sound of the wheel compliments the GT5 music so much on that video. Made me bust a move. Anyway, I think the last 2 updates made some wheels unplayable. Just probably a bug since they did fix something, you know how it is when it comes to programming. So, I would just wait till they release another update, which I think will come in 2 days and see how it goes. I haven't played GT5 in a while, last time I think was weeks before the 1.1 update or something. I have a G27, but us G27 users have this issue when it comes to the X1. Try lowering the FFB.
 
Try turning down the force feedback strength in options this should at least to you fighting with the wheel but the steering wheel will still move if you aren't holding on to it. I'm no wheel expert tbh DFGT is the 1st wheel I've had and was a big change from a controller but after a week or so I got used to it and I enjoy GT more than I ever did without it.
 
the FFB motors NEED force on them to give you feedback. when you sit it in the middle like that without touching the wheel, as the car moves over bumps in the road, the FFB tries to put those bumps back through the wheel to you. expecting you to be holding onto it. (not an unreasonable expectation)

because you're not providing any resistance against one motor, the wheel turns slightly until the other motor sees some force being applied to it, so it in turn fights back.
If YOU don;t provide it with any resistance, it'll just keep cycling between the two motors feeding back against each other.

Ever driven a track-car with plenty of negative camber on the front wheels (even a go-kart) you'll know how much work they are to muscle around.
if not, take my word for it, they require some serious effort
 
Another DFGT oscilantion in GT5 thread??? must be the 10th one Ive read here... the answer is always the same from release day... use both hands on the wheel or turn down the FFB.
 
I only drive using one hand and I don't seem to get them problems, like others have said, turn down the FFB until you are comfortable with it:tup:
 
This problem was already present in GT5:P.... Like others have said, keep your hands on the wheel :) Also, what car were you driving?... It looks like an EVO... Cars with yaw-control like the EVO produce this behaviour even worse...
 
Whoah! Careful it doesn't rip your arm off. I've heard too many GT5/DFGT horror stories already.
Best to send it back. I hear the T500rs is a lot safer, and doesn't require bodybuilder strength to safely get down a straight road.
 
I don't seem to have that problem with my DFGT. If i place the wheel dead center I can let it go without it moving. That only happens when I let it go when the wheel is slightly off center. The wheel will then do what your video shows but I still don't find it to be quite as much. My FFB is at 8.

Edit: After watching again it seems it's an issue with the "self centering" feature. At the :10 mark you let it go and it stayed center then at the :14 mark you moved it off center just a bit to the left and let go and it started doing it again. The FFB motors always want to jerk the wheel back to center (that's self centering) but then it goes past center and needs to jerk back causing a never ending cycle. If you have the wheel perfectly centered then you don't get that action.

Yes they could have done the self centering better but it isn't really a big deal. Just hold the wheel straight and if its too much to handle just turn down the FFB
 
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Ya Pops
Whoah! Careful it doesn't rip your arm off. I've heard too many GT5/DFGT horror stories already.
Best to send it back. I hear the T500rs is a lot safer, and doesn't require bodybuilder strength to safely get down a straight road.
Click to expand...

:D :D :D... send what back? the wheel or the game? :dunce:
 
Its just seems weird that when using the wheel with iracing its fine, cars and wheel behave as normal.just with gt5 I get this issue with just the slightest of movement.coming out of a turn I feel like always control the wheel first and then the car. Just really annoying. Makes the game feel really arcady more than an actual sim racer, almost like playing daytona 500 arcade machine.
 
neemo6
Its just seems weird that when using the wheel with iracing its fine, cars and wheel behave as normal.just with gt5 I get this issue with just the slightest of movement.coming out of a turn I feel like always control the wheel first and then the car. Just really annoying. Makes the game feel really arcady more than an actual sim racer, almost like playing daytona 500 arcade machine.
Click to expand...

GT Academy finalist, and I used the DFGT to get there. No problems with the wheel. ;)
 
neemo6
Its just seems weird that when using the wheel with iracing its fine, cars and wheel behave as normal.just with gt5 I get this issue with just the slightest of movement.coming out of a turn I feel like always control the wheel first and then the car. Just really annoying. Makes the game feel really arcady more than an actual sim racer, almost like playing daytona 500 arcade machine.
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Why do you find that weird since Iracing is designed totally around a wheel (at first they wouldn't allow nothing but a wheel) while 90-95% of those who bought GT5 will use a controller?
FFB in Iracing is top priority while most console games ffb is something slapped on at the last minute. Even with Forza 4 Kinect is a much higher priority than ffb wheels.
 
Zoom!Zoom!
Why do you find that weird since Iracing is designed totally around a wheel (at first they wouldn't allow nothing but a wheel) while 90-95% of those who bought GT5 will use a controller?
FFB in Iracing is top priority while most console games ffb is something slapped on at the last minute. Even with Forza 4 Kinect is a much higher priority than ffb wheels.
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That seems strange for a game that calls himself the real driving simulator... never heard of a simulator controled by a pad... I watch a Dirt 3 dev video and even that game was made for a wheel... so I doubt GT5 wasnt... but then again...
 
tribolik
That seems strange for a game that calls himself the real driving simulator... never heard of a simulator controled by a pad... I watch a Dirt 3 dev video and even that game was made for a wheel... so I doubt GT5 wasnt... but then again...
Click to expand...
GT1 was called the real driving simulator before there were ffb wheels.
 
Zoom!Zoom!
"Why Force Feedback in simulations don't work"
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In reference to Leo Bodnar text>SimJunky – The Force Feedback Question

«His explanation of how Force Feedback works is excellent… as is his explanation of why Force Feedback doesn’t function well in previous and current simulations of today as it relates to actual feedback of inputs to a real car.»

I do agree completely with Leo’s article as it refers to the direct method of implementing the realism of how to actually simulate a real car’s response as it translates to the driving wheel. There’s really no argument there. Current technology would allow his example on page 4 of his article to become reality – however, that would still depend on the wheel manufacturer creating a wheel (and drivers) to operate in the manner he describes, as well as the simulation in question translating the Force Feedback responses so that Leo’s example is transferred to the wheel correctly. Until that level of technological advancement is reached in Force Feedback wheels – as well as in racing simulations – we’re stuck with what we have that doesn’t necessarily reflect the real-world characteristics 100% accurately of how responses translate to a driver through the wheel of a car.

Despite the flaws however, currently Force Feedback in the latest run of racing simulations – most notably iRacing and rFactor – is about the best you’ll find in a racing simulation thus far. The smallest adjustments to a car that directly affect the way the tires interact with the racing surface can easily be felt through the wheel. A few clicks of toe-in can make the car suddenly feel like it’s driving through mud, where the opposite adjustment can make the car feel like it’s on a rail. Castor and Camber adjustments can put a lot of force on the tires which can be felt through the wheel by requiring more force to actually turn it into the corners. Shock adjustments can profoundly affect the way the car handles as it drives over bumps on the track – which translate into hard jerks on the wheel when driving on stiffer shocks. These sensations, while certainly not attuned to the total possible realism (and exaggerated to a greater, or lesser degree), definitely affect how the driver handles their car while running a race.

The real discussion, then, is about whether or not the driver feels that Force Feedback assists them when racing the track with the level of realism, however substandard it may be, that it currently provides.

Despite the fact that Force Feedback doesn’t necessarily translate the response of the car as realistically as it could, I can say that for me personally Force Feedback has helped my driving in racing sims immeasurably. The level of realism that it does provide allows me to “feel” when the car is about to break loose in a turn, or if the tires break free (during acceleration for example). This response is a split second before the visual and audible cues from the sim itself, and as a result it gives me that split second of extra time to correct the situation before the loss of control (which is rather important at 170 mph). It also helps me drive harder into the corners, and accelerate harder out of the corners, for the same reasons I describe above. Brake bias adjustments, and how they affect the front tires when entering a turn on the brakes, become easy to feel and adjust for. Force Feedback took me literally from a mid pack driver to a top 10 driver.

Basicly even with the current flawed technology a good FFB wheel does much a better job in terms of simulation realism and immersion than Pad... IMO
 
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Zoom!Zoom!
"Why Force Feedback in simulations don't work"
Click to expand...

This part is not always true.

viewer.png


PD worked with Logitech to make the DFGT and T10 is working with Fanatec to make the CSR series wheels.

So my point being is that Logitech and Fanatec ARE in the loop and they know they are.

So with that being said, If the last paragraph was supposed to be the moral of the story then the entire story just became fiction. Did it not?
 
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zr1chris
This part is not always true.

viewer.png


PD worked with Logitech to make the DFGT and T10 is working with Fanatec to make the CSR series wheels.

So my point being is that Logitech and Fanatec ARE in the loop and they know they are.

So with that being said, If the last paragraph was supposed to be the moral of the story then the entire story just became fiction. Did it not?
Click to expand...
There is little doubt Fanatec and Logitech are in involved at some level. Who knows just how much they know and involved with the software end. I haven't seen too much improvement in GT5 FBB over past series. Even Turn 10 seems a lot more interested in Kinect than FFB for the video I've seen. (Good thing Fanatec wheels have some many on-wheel adjustments since you can't rely on the software having them)

Yet the reason I posted it was some people like the OP wonder why their wheel like DFGT behaves nothing like a real steering wheel. I remember someone who bought a TS500 a while back was disappointed because it still didn't feel and behave like the real thing.

For example: A real steering wheel has forces from both directions holding the wheel still in the center. A FFB wheel can only apply force one direction at a time so it simulate "center" with a ffb dead zone (no force).
 
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Ya Pops
Whoah! Careful it doesn't rip your arm off. I've heard too many GT5/DFGT horror stories already.
Best to send it back. I hear the T500rs is a lot safer, and doesn't require bodybuilder strength to safely get down a straight road.
Click to expand...

Lol, horror stories from who? You must be kidding.

Back when I was using the DFGT for GT5, I had it set on 10 for the longest time. It was fine for every vehicle except for the X1. The X1 made me feel like I was going to risk breaking the wheel if I continued to drive with it at 10 for any longer.

I stopped using 10 over all when I started to run a lot of Nurburgring races. The oscillation problem seemed to be more noticeable and pronounced on that track, and was hindering some of my races anytime I hit certain road bumps at high speed. The oscillation behaviour makes the wheel that much harder to deal with when driving under certain conditions in GT5. F1 2010 has no such problems, but then again it also has weaker FFB effects.
 
Zoom!Zoom!
There is little doubt Fanatec and Logitech are in involved at some level. Who knows just how much they know and involved with the software end. I haven't seen too much improvement in GT5 FBB over past series. Even Turn 10 seems a lot more interested in Kinect than FFB for the video I've seen. (Good thing Fanatec wheels have some many on-wheel adjustments since you can't rely on the software having them)

Yet the reason I posted it was some people like the OP wonder why their wheel like DFGT behaves nothing like a real steering wheel. I remember someone who bought a TS500 a while back was disappointed because it still didn't feel and behave like the real thing.

For example: A real steering wheel has forces from both directions holding the wheel still in the center. A FFB wheel can only apply force one direction at a time so it simulate "center" with a ffb dead zone (no force).
Click to expand...

Even in real life you only feel the force that prevails (the stronger one) and what you said about FFB dead zone is not true for belt driven FFB wheels...
 
tribolik
Even in real life you only feel the force that prevails (the stronger one) and what you said about FFB dead zone is not true for belt driven FFB wheels...
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I have a Fanatec GT3 it simulate center with a deadzone. It has nothing to do with gear or belt. A real steering wheel stays dead center when forces from both sides becomes equal. With more speed the force from both sides becomes stronger yet still equal at center .
 
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Zoom!Zoom!
I have a Fanatec GT3 it simulate center with a deadzone. It has nothing to do with gear or belt. A real steering wheel stays dead center when forces from both sides becomes equal. With more speed the force from both sides becomes stronger yet still equal at center .
Click to expand...

Well then you know better than me I only have a DFGT and it has that problem... when acelerating the wheel should stay centered (if the road is flat) but in GT5 it doesnt... I thought that was not the issue with the Fanatec... Ive read that the T500RS does not have that issue with a firmware update though... but Im not sure... never tryed one...
 
tribolik
when acelerating the wheel should stay centered (if the road is flat) but in GT5 it doesnt...
Click to expand...

ever accelerated hard in a powerful real car without any hands on the wheel......
the wheel won't stay centred for very long.
more grip on one drive wheel than the other is normal due to the way diffs operate,
more grip on one side= car tries to rotate around the other wheel
 
tribolik
Well then you know better than me I only have a DFGT and it has that problem... when acelerating the wheel should stay centered (if the road is flat) but in GT5 it doesnt... I thought that was not the issue with the Fanatec... Ive read that the T500RS does not have that issue with a firmware update though... but Im not sure... never tryed one...
Click to expand...
Fanatec ffb dead zone is tighter than Logitech. TS500 with better sensors is probably tighter the GT3.
Logitech center dead zone is -10 to +10 degrees by default
Fanatecs is between -4 to +4.
ffb dead zone is simply when the ffb motors is not pulling left nor right. Thus no force at center. In a speeding car there is always forces pulling on the wheel even at dead center.
The problem with GT5 is PD actually tries to simulate more force applied on the wheel at center with greater speeds but it doesn't work very well since a ffb wheel can only pull in one direction at a time. So you end up fighting the wheel down the straight.
 
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LOL I have never had to fight with my wheel down and straight and OMG what the hell are you guys talking about. Its a good wheel it works fine, I watched the David coulthard merc race against gamers you didn't see any of them having and epic battle with the steering wheel down the top gear straight. In answer to the question WTF is the DFGT doing........... It's doing wtf it was ment to do, wtf are you doing ......no you can't drive using mind power use your hands you fudge
 

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