need help with tactile for new console build. Latte?

In my new SIM room I'm going to have both PC and console triple screen rigs. The PC rig is fully Dbox and tactile. But the console rig only has a single buttkicker.

My question is how do you build a zone tactile for consoles? I have ordered four Dayton pucks for my seat, four more for the chassis and the buttkicker for the rear part of the frame.

How would I set this up? I've got a 7.1 amp dedicated just for Xbox and PS3. Is it even possible?

Thanks

Mayaman

From reading your posts over the years I know that you will want a top quality system.

I don't have a 7.1 tactile system so can only comment based on my own experiments with a three channel system on the PS3.

A 7.1 system is possible and Mr Latte will be able to explain how it can be set up, however I am not sure that it is worth trying. You can get a good mono rumble effect and if you change to stereo tactile it will be slightly better although I am not convinced that the extra effect is worth the extra cost.

In GT5 the amount of rumble effect varies greatly depending on the car so you get an extreme effect from a Merc C63 or Audi R8, but very little effect from a lot of the cars. What happens is that if you are driving a car with little effect such as a four cylinder or V12 and drive near a C63 your effect is drowned out by the effect from the neighbouring car. I don't mind this too much, but bear in mind it is not very realistic.

From reading on this forum and my own experiments the key things for a good effect on the PS3 are plenty of tactile on the pedals to simulate engine vibration and also on the shifter (these can be mono) plus some thump (preferably stereo) through the seat to simulate kerbs and collisions.

The Dayton Pucks will probably suffice for testing, but you would get a better effect with the Buttkicker used for the pedal area and a pair of Clark Synthesis TST209's for the stereo effect under the seat.

Isolation of the rig via rubber is key to a good effect - best value being the Penn Elcom 9106 (from Parts Express). If you are going multi-channel tactile isolation becomes critical otherwise you will lose the directionality. You can isolate the rig from the floor and also the seat unit from the main rig frame, plus isolate the pedal mounting from the rig - i.e. mount the pedals to a plate which is rubber isolated from the rig frame. the gearshift mount will need to be isolated - again the shifter can be attached to a plate which is rubber isolated from the rig.

I have seen some forum users put vibration into the wheel area - I haven't tried this and would be worried that the vibration could shorten the life of the electronics in the wheel.

In terms of how to power the shakers - some are using AV amps, but personally I favour subwoofer amps as these are built for low frequency operation and have the necessary low pass filtering built in.

Mr latte will probably persuade you to go the whole hog (it was him that inspired me to try tactile) but I would suggest build your rig to accept multichannel tactile with plenty of thought to isolation and future upgrades, but start off with three channels stereo from the PS3 multiout and mono for the pedal and shifter via an SMC converter. Perhaps try using the Dayton Pucks for surround tactile by placing at strategic points around the seat.

Different tactile units have different resonant frequencies (limited range of Hz where they work too strongly) so you may need to use 32 band graphic equalisers such as the Behringer 3102 to smooth out the effect.

Good luck and happy shaking. it will be very interesting to follow your progress with your rigs.

this is great information. FYI the rig for console will be suspended from the floor using a spring system I've devised. I've used this system successfully on another rig. While its not true motion, the 300lb springs and inner sleeves, do let the rig sway slightly under braking and acceleration as well as the force of turning the wheel. While it pales to my Dbox setup for my PC, its amazing how the springs coupled with a buttkicker can trick your mind into motion even with the slight up and down and sway of the springs.

For this setup, I'm using the same spring suspension but I'm going to ramp up the tactile. I know many think its a waste, but my nephew spends quite a bit of time at my place, and he's a Forza and GT5 kid. So I'm going to make him the best possible console simulator I can.

Thanks and I look forward to hearing more suggestions, all is appreciated.

talking about rumble im surprised the CSW rumble affects work in GT5 didn't expect that at all

Mayaman - what a lucky nephew!

GT5 is a 5.1 title so I presume 5.1 rather than 7.1 is as far as you can go.

Will you both be gaming at the same time? - if so I presume you will be using 5.1 headsets.

Will you be using Simvibe on your PC rig?

GT5 is 7.1 and my tactile set up currently is 7.1. It is a lot for console sim racing but I love it.
I started off with just 5 Aura pro's and while that was good our friend Latte had loaned me some of his buttkickers and pucks I knew more was a lot better! So I added more amps and tactile as and when.
You may find one or two units is sufficient, but I feel the rumble of curbs in the corner of the rig that the wheel on the screen is going over and that effect travels from the front through the rig as the car travels over the R,strip. The same with collisions and traveling past other cars.
Yes the effects very from car to car but because GT5 is 7.1 and the engine/exhaust effects come from the rear channel 7.1 this greatly improves the tactile effect in the cars that aren't as good as the R8 or C63.
I couldn't go from 7.1 to 2 or 3 units and find it even satisfying now although it may work for some until you've tried it you won't know what your missing.
I know Latte would attest to the strength in numbers theory.....Its his theory lol

^^^Can you PM me details on your build please?

@Carson79 - perhaps you could post up pictures and diagrams on this site. I think there are many who would be interested in how you have implemented tactile as well as Mayaman and myself.

Very interested in which types of shaker you advise for each channel.

Here's a picture of my tactile from my profile here on GTPlanet

Buttkicker advance = sub centre of the seat
2 Buttkicker mini's rear left, right on the rear of the seat
5 aura pro's, 1 front left, 1 centre, 1 right of the pedals and 1 surround left and 1 right on the front section of the seat.

Mayaman

In my new SIM room I'm going to have both PC and console triple screen rigs. The PC rig is fully Dbox and tactile. But the console rig only has a single buttkicker.

My question is how do you build a zone tactile for consoles? I have ordered four Dayton pucks for my seat, four more for the chassis and the buttkicker for the rear part of the frame.

How would I set this up? I've got a 7.1 amp dedicated just for Xbox and PS3. Is it even possible?

Thanks

Click to expand...

When you get the Dayton pucks you will realise how audible they can be.
Sure they can produce short range and limited effects in bass resonance but imo they are not a great solution for a cockpit as the main tactile. Then again for the price they are ideal for starting or experimenting.

If controlled via EQ and in a close proximity they could be effective to get tactile effects to an area a typical unit can not be installed. Hence why I previously tested them under the cover of the seat sidewalls and shoulder areas. Also I think they may be pretty decent for shifter effects/tactile duties at a low but felt volume.

Using Multichannel decoding with tactile works in the same principle as multichannel audio.
"Front & Rear" effects are the equivalent I guess to Chassis mode representing the 4 corners/wheels. "Centre" mode works rather well as engine effects. LFE works well also as engine or for impacts. You can expand all media utilising at least "Stereo" including games upto 7.1 tactile with the widely available DLPIIx decoding for additional rear tactile effects.

If starting off maybe consider having stereo effects and a unit in the pedals. That should get you all juiced up for some more if you like it.

Audio tactile can be a very mixed bag but we certainly learned how to utilise it well and have more control with EQ. If using models like the TST 209 ensure your audio is slightly louder to kill off its own audio. They are designed to combine with speaker audio but will sound weird if they are louder than your speakers. Also ensure you have good audible bass to improve the complete sensation. Having good audible bass fools the brain into thinking the tactile is stronger and if incorporated successfully giving the perception that the tactile is part of the audible bass not two separate elements.

Like a good home cinema, good bass is a key factor for really adding to the immersion.
In tactile terms the bigger more expensive units perform like better sub-woofers producing much richer and stronger quality of tactile. You don't have to run them at insane volumes to feel the benefits neither just like a high quality sub-woofer will far exceed something like your typical Logitech package.

On a final note I think Hoiman has done one of the best/recent examples of using increased or at least more controlled individual isolation. Bottom line the better isolation you have the more it will improve the results you get.

This is important if you want to help separate effects from various channels to feel like individual effects rather than being mixed together.

Some great examples of tactile on GTP.