Further proof that we're already playing the next version of GT

Yeti talked about it in this post:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1654573&postcount=14

Now look at this shot from the "Vision Gran Turismo" video. Somebody on another forum pointed it out. Forgive me if this is old news, but I wasn't aware of it. Copy it to your hard drive, open it, and zoom in on the chest of the pit crew member on the left:

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614786/vision-gran-turismo-20050516072904597.jpg

Folks, we're running GT4 on the wrong platform. The game was designed from the bottom up to be a launch title for the PS3. As yeti pointed out, just changing few parameters unleashes it.

We are running a throttled-back, partially-disabled version of GT4 so that we can run it on our venerable old PS2s. The real thing, fully opened up, will be bundled with the PS3 when it is introduced.

GT5 will come later. The next version of the game will just be 100% of GT4, and they'll give it to us with the PS3.

I think that we all noticed that. V:GT is most definitely just a PS3 tech demo.

Actually, Zardoz, it was Polyphony who were running GT4 on the wrong console. All they did for that tech demo was load GT4 onto a PS3 dev kit, and used the extra power to add more cars and people. That video was, essentially, the same GT4 we've been playing all year. GT5 will be far, FAR, beyond what was in that video, graphically (which is all you're seeing in a video anyway).

Jedi2016

Actually, Zardoz, it was Polyphony who were running GT4 on the wrong console. All they did for that tech demo was load GT4 onto a PS3 dev kit, and used the extra power to add more cars and people. That video was, essentially, the same GT4 we've been playing all year. GT5 will be far, FAR, beyond what was in that video, graphically (which is all you're seeing in a video anyway).

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Jedi is right.

After all, every course, every car, and just about every detail is from or at GT4 detail...
I agree. I think this is just GT4 loaded on the PS3 and running a bit of the PS3 power to add some things.

Jedi2016

...GT5 will be far, FAR, beyond what was in that video...

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Uh, well, in the last paragraph I did say that GT5 would "come later", didn't I? Vision GT has nothing to do with GT5. Its the "real" GT4, which we'll see next spring.

God knows when we'll see GT5...

(And by the way, have you noticed how many tracks in GT4 have 22 positions painted on the tarmac at the starting line?)

Zardoz

Uh, well, in the last paragraph I did say that GT5 would "come later", didn't I? Vision GT has nothing to do with GT5. Its the "real" GT4, which we'll see next spring.

God knows when we'll see GT5...

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Well, what if V. GT is this new GT one with online?
I don't know how many remember, but there was a report the would be another GT game (supposed to come out around now; guess not) in the summer that feature online and the people working on it would be another division of PD so they could still work on GT5.

A thought.

First of all, I'm glad to be back here after some rough times here personally. Having said this, let me do what I do best- sound off.

I'm not going to fall for another "GT will never truly EVOLVE" deal. I thought Vision GT was more of a vision of the next GT. When I got on GTPlanet back on December 5, 2003, the majority of pictures I seen for the next GT were grainy pictures that weren't really talking to me. I only seen Fuji, New York, Tsukuba, Grand Canyon, and Citta di Aria in videos and in pictures. I knew we weren't going to see crappy quality images for the next GT game, so that's why a year since my GTP debut, we've seen a world of pictures and such. So as tracks and cars were being added, I was even more impressed. I knew GT4 was going to be a HUGE step from GT3, and I was right.

As far as Vision GT goes, and if we're going to be playing GT4 in GT5, I don't buy that claim. If PD wanted to release the same game with barely noticable tweaks, they'd just make sequels of the same game and stretch it out for God knows how long. Does this sound familiar? Heard of Street Fighter 2? I'm a MegaMan/RockMan fan, and as I know, each game was a step up in challenge. One moment, I'm breezing through Fire Man's stage, the next game, I keep getting OWNED in Quick Man's level when those lasers start shooting from the sides. The feel of GT4 still kind of felt like GT3, but the physics were updated, AI drivers weren't B-License racers racing in an IA-License race, and don't get me started on no online. You already know my take on that if you've been around on here. Oh, and another thing. If VGT is supposedly GT5 for the PS3, how come all we've seen were race cars? What, we're going to see only Super GT and World Rally cars compete on the same GT4 tracks? I honestly don't think so, homie. It's too early to criticize this game. Give it until maybe September or November before we really learn more about this deal.

JohnBM01

As far as Vision GT goes, and if we're going to be playing GT4 in GT5, I don't buy that claim...

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What is up? Is everybody skipping the last paragraph of my original post? Did you all get bored and stop reading?

Good night, everybody...

Either I'm suffering from an extreme case of de-ja-vu, or this is like the 347395345th time this has been discussed.

Zardoz

Uh, well, in the last paragraph I did say that GT5 would "come later", didn't I? Vision GT has nothing to do with GT5. Its the "real" GT4, which we'll see next spring.

God knows when we'll see GT5...

(And by the way, have you noticed how many tracks in GT4 have 22 positions painted on the tarmac at the starting line?)

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Okay, wait a minute... You think that VGT is actually a game? VGT was a tech demo, nothing more. They're not actually going to release an upgraded GT4 called "Vision Gran Turismo". The first GT we'll see on PS3 will be GT5.

As for the 22-positions thing, most of those are based on real tracks, which have more starting grids. And even on the original tracks, it's been that way since GT1.. there have always been more "grids" than cars, GT4 did nothing new there.

Jedi2016

...The first GT we'll see on PS3 will be GT5...

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The PS3 will be launched about a year after the release of GT4. The chances of the new console coming onto the market without a new PS3 version of Gran Turismo being available at launch date are so remote as to be non-existent. Sony must hit the ground running with the PS3. They'll be months behind the Xbox 360 and must regain momentum as quickly as possible.

There is no way PD will have the real GT5 ready to go just 12 or 14 months after the release of GT4. Like we've all been speculating, GT5 will show up anywhere from two to three years after GT4, in 2007 or even 2008.

So what GT game will Sony have for the most important event in the history of their entire product line, the introduction of their new super-console? We've seen it and we're already using a partial version of it. Who knows, or cares, what they'll call it: "Vision GT", "GT4 for The PS3", or whatever. It doesn't matter what name they give it.

Bundling it for free with the new machine makes perfect sense. They've already sold seven million copies of GT4, so all the development expenses are paid for, and they've make a tidy profit, for sure. They don't have to make a ton of money off it anymore.

But they absolutely have to sell zillions of the new console, and an unleashed version of GT4, bundled with it, will make it just that much more attractive. This is nothing new. They bundled GT3 with the PS2 for a while.

Yeti was correct in his original post. Vision GT is just GT4 with its parameters opened up.

There won't be a GT game at launch, simple as, there never has been a GT for a PS launch. Vision GT WAS GT4, not a new version of GT4. All PD did was increase the 3d crowds and the grids and make a short vid of it basically to say, yep theres a new GT on the way. PD are right now working on GT5 not GT4.2 or whatever you'd like to call it, GT4's engine cannot do damage, yet the next GT can. Bundling a free copy of GT4.2 makes less sense from a business perspective than getting on with the sequel and charging people for it when it's ready. The PS3 won't need a free game to increase sales, the few extra sales that would get probalby wouldn't make up the costs of making the game, packaging it and distributing it. The PS3 will be the most popular of the next generation consoles even if the XB360 is better, Sony has the following.

live4speed

...basically to say, yep theres a new GT on the way...

...GT4's engine cannot do damage, yet the next GT can...

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"A new GT on the way", and the pit crews will have the GT4 logo on them? That logo seems like a heck of a clue as to PD's intent. Remember, Vision GT was featured along with the trumpeting of the PS3. It was not isolated from the promotion of the new machine.

Yes, the real GT5 will have damage. The opened-up version of GT4 won't.

Another clue: All the bugs GT4 has. Maybe because, once again, we're running a partially-disabled version of it.

Yes the pit crews had GT4 on them, because IT WAS GT4. If PD are working on the next GT now, and they've already said the next GT will feature damage, and confirmed that the next GT is GT5, how can there be a next GT that is none of that. Why would sony undermine the PS3's power and release a product, ie GT4 with better boots on thats far, far inferior to every other PS3 launch title. Not only that, but do you think Kaz would want his series to be represented as under par? Because GT4 unlocked or not as you put it, is not going to use any significant ammount of the PS3's power. If they wanted to do that then they might a well start over, because believe it or not, GT4 was done on a PS2 dev kit, nothing special that would allow them to use PS3 features. I see where you're coming from and if PD hadn't already said they were now doing GT5 I might believe some of it but it's not true.

live4speed

...and they've already said the next GT will feature damage, and confirmed that the next GT is GT5...

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Clever marketing could get around that. Calling it "GT4 For The PS3" would tell us all that this is just a sample, and that the best is yet to come.

Still, you make a lot of good points, and I'm probably a crackpot theorist. It just seems like there are a lot of clues that we'll see some sort of interim version when the PS3 comes out. Remember, never before has Sony had to go head-to-head with Bill Gates when they launched a new machine. Things are different now. They need to go all-out at launch date.

If you're right, I'm impressed, but I doubt it very much. There will be plenty of top level games ready for lauch even in GT isn't one of them, they have gone head to head with other consoles before at launch.

Considering how long we'd otherwise have to wait, it would definitely be a good idea to offer an online version of GT4 at launch of the PS3.

One thing that's always interested me in this context is photo mode. I've always considered it proof that PD has developed a high-level rendering engine for the PS3 already, which its put to clever testing in the photo-mode. The PS3 should, after all, be able to render such picture quality in real time. So if they make a GT4 version that is completely online, has the render quality of Photo mode, has a full grid, vastly updated track graphics and better sound-quality for the cars, I think they can get away with it and keep us happy while GT5 is underway.

We'll see what happens though ...

The PS3's graphics will be far better than thoes seen in GT4's photomode, beside that PD started photmode years ago, PS2 dev kits have been around a few months, I think people are reading too much into the vision GT demo. Even if they do GT4.s that looks like GT4's photomode all the time, it'll still pale in comparison to the other titles, KY would not want his title to go that way.

Zardoz

Another clue: All the bugs GT4 has. Maybe because, once again, we're running a partially-disabled version of it.

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Bugs!? Holy crap! The other day I was doing a time trial on Tsukuba and then after nine laps I decided to watch the replay. Well, after 4 laps, the "computer" took over what it thought I did and it just ran into the wall repeatedly, ON A REPLAY! That is not at all what I did! I was driving a stock (US)Honda Accord EX V6 if anyone is wondering. Zardoz, I am with you. It was as if the PS2 could not handle what was actually happening to it. Let me tell you, this is not the first time this has happened to me......

I really think that GT4 s just GT3.5. It's just a revamped version of 3 that uses the PS2's power to its max. GT5 will be spectacular no doubt. I mean look what they've been able to do with 4.7gb of space. Immagine what can be accomplished with roughly 10 & 1/2 times the space and 35 times the processing power. The real problem in the graphics is that reflections are not accurate. There needs to be more contrast of white on the car, but I digress. I'm sure that whatever and whenever GT5 comes out it will be better visually than we are speculating. PD has yet to dissapoint me.

2004TSX

Bugs!? Holy crap! The other day I was doing a time trial on Tsukuba and then after nine laps I decided to watch the replay. Well, after 4 laps, the "computer" took over what it thought I did and it just ran into the wall repeatedly, ON A REPLAY! That is not at all what I did! I was driving a stock (US)Honda Accord EX V6 if anyone is wondering. Zardoz, I am with you. It was as if the PS2 could not handle what was actually happening to it. Let me tell you, this is not the first time this has happened to me......

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That happens in other games too, used to happen to me in TOCA 2 regularly. It's because the replay is not the replay, it's numbers taken from you're race and the AI driving the car in a replay thats all so it can screw up, it's nothing to do with the PS2's power and how much GT4 is pushing the limits.

GT Vision is probably GT5's name. Just like it'll happen with SSX4. It'll be named "On Tour", but it'll still be SSX4.

Vision GT was just a demo, PD have already called GT5 by name, why they say they're working on GT5 and show a demo called Vision GT if GT5 is Vision GT. I don't think theres anything more to it than they were letting us know GT was coming to the PS3.

I for one agree with Zardoz's theory. If the PS3 came out with an updated GT4 at the time I would totally buy it and so would a lot of people. Then when GT5 comes out people will scramble to get it again.

Something in me always felt that GT4 can be a much better game if the PS2 had the power. Now with the PS3, how much easier is it to keep the physics models of GT4 and add in some new cars and features and package it as a new GT4 for Playstation 3? That would satiate the fans so they can work on GT5 in earnest and release it later in the PS3's life cycle.

This sounds like Ferrari appearing in GT4 cos PD filmed a staff day out driving them all over again.

larrymags

...If the PS3 came out with an updated GT4 at the time I would totally buy it and so would a lot of people. Then when GT5 comes out people will scramble to get it again...

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A lot more people would be really seriously pissed off. If "GT4 For The PS3" happens, it will have to be a bundled freebie. Otherwise, they would create too much ill will among their customer base if they tried to get another fifty bucks from us for an opened-up version of the same game.

Like I said, they've made big bucks off GT4 already. They won't need to hit us up for it again. They would be much smarter to create great good will in anticipation of the real GT5.

I guess we're close to the truth, but the real premise is this:

Majority of the work that was done in production of GT4 was also being made for the future GT project on PS3. So, said that, the conclusion is that GT4 has many things that will fully come to life with GT5.

Also, the premise of "GT5 will be just GT4 on stereoids" ("opened up GT4") is not very "healthy" - GT5 will certanly push some elements of previous GT games to the new levels, and maybe even change basic game-structure due to online elements. But, I really do not see what more "spectacular" can be done besides online, because GT4 has already revolutionised the genre with PhotoMode and B-Spec mode. Now, they have to use all the power of the new hardware to properly finish the foundations and finally build true GT "house" for this millenium.

I wouldn't bet my money that GT5 will be the launch title, but I could think about putting some money on idea that we're going to get some "online & tech-upgraded" GT game in short time after the PS3 launch. Of course, it is just a dead wish, but one has to have some positive thinking..

we could always just wait.

I'm sure all this speculating MUST somehow speed the development up!
cough......BS.....cough

I think GT4 was pretty much designed bigger than the PS2 could handle and was scaled down a bit. The vision gran turismo tech demo was absolutely no indicator of what the console is going to be able to do - they used exactly the same track data and texture data from GT4, and you can tell pretty easily by seeing repeating pavement textures on the El Capitan shots. Companies did not have a whole lot of time to do anything with the programming kit for the PS3 before E3 showed up, so Polyphony had to throw together a bit of a mock presentation. What better to do it with than GT4 with 30 cars on track at once? Even though it shows what the PS3 could possibly do, it is probably only using up 15-20% of the total console's power. Tops.

Everyone here wants more cars per race. They showed us what it could possibly be like. But take that vision, take every object in the demo and make it about ten times more detailed than it is currently. I guarantee you that our socks are going to be freakin blown off our feet with GT5.

amar212

I guess we're close to the truth, but the real premise is this:

Majority of the work that was done in production of GT4 was also being made for the future GT project on PS3. So, said that, the conclusion is that GT4 has many things that will fully come to life with GT5.

Also, the premise of "GT5 will be just GT4 on stereoids" ("opened up GT4") is not very "healthy" - GT5 will certanly push some elements of previous GT games to the new levels, and maybe even change basic game-structure due to online elements. But, I really do not see what more "spectacular" can be done besides online, because GT4 has already revolutionised the genre with PhotoMode and B-Spec mode. Now, they have to use all the power of the new hardware to properly finish the foundations and finally build true GT "house" for this millenium.

I wouldn't bet my money that GT5 will be the launch title, but I could think about putting some money on idea that we're going to get some "online & tech-upgraded" GT game in short time after the PS3 launch. Of course, it is just a dead wish, but one has to have some positive thinking..

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I agree! (I felt I needed to post )