GT and Microtransactions

well, as one of the most vocal users wondering what might happen with this microtransactions, i decided to write this thread, to have a better idea of what GTP users think about the whole subject.

other than aswering the poll, i think my dream system would be: example, you get GT5, 2000 cars and 100 tracks. you unlock cars having skills to drive, improving in your careear. then, after the game is released, lets say GM releases a new corvette. to promote the car, they decide to put it for free, letting user download the car, just like cadillac did in PGR3. PD snatches a few more cars with lamborghini, then they put for download and you pay. or you can win by winning online tournaments, stuff like that.

bottom line, you bought a complete game, that does not cost more than 100 dollars, but still can use the latest techology to have improved content. PD can push all they want in ads, whatever to help finacing the game, just don´t rip us.

well, what kind of model you think would be more apropriated for gran turismo?

thanks for the replys, lets open the discussion, we know PD looks at boards and will take notice in the community reaction.

*i know not everything is set in stone right now, still things up in the air, but we can still talk about the subject.

*i choose to have an open poll to see if there´s any relation with voters and their nationality, number of years being a GTP member, that kind of statistics. i think guys will be OK with that.

I hope everyone ticks #2. 💡

Otherweise, you are an a__h___e.

Number 2 would be the best choice, you get a full game + you will have fun after you completed it! And you will have MUCH fun, It would turn into a never ending awesome game and PD gets their extra money too. win/win situation

It would also be great for people without internet; that people PD talks about. They get their full game too, but without downloadable content.

Obviously #2. Here is the problem with other models:

- maybe you don't have online, maybe you don't have a credit card, maybe you want to borrow the game to your friend, so on. There is a big number of reasons why the game that you BUY from the retail store (or wherever you buy it from) should be a complete game (assuming you pay $50-$60 for it). I have no problem with optional packs after that, the same way PGR3 is doing it.

"Complete package" is the logical choice, but 2000 cars and 100 tracks should not be expected.

I was thinking option 2, but with the #3, you do get a cheaper game(with GT3 size garage), and they should be able to release the game months earlier, if not close to a year. They can make the additional track and cars available, as they become available.

As far as I know, Sony and/or PD employees do browse this forum from time to time, and I really hope they will read this thread. I think they are making a dreadful mistake, and that they are ripping of all the enthusiasts that have been following the GT series so loyally over the years.

My choice, obviously, was #2 as well. I want the full GT from the beginning, with all cars and tracks they have at the time. The idea to offer downloadable tracks and cars they create later is great, and I am willing to pay money for that. However, holding back content you already have to make the customer pay for it may work well in certain business parts, but in terms of Gran Turismo, it's a low blow!

Shame on you, Sony and PD! 👎

Regards
the Interceptor

Well, unless Polyphony can create a full game by June with all 770 cars and 51 tracks, I pick a modified #3.

- A low priced game, maybe $10-15, okay maybe $19.95.
- Download packages of 25-50 cars and 5-10 tracks, reasonably priced. Perhaps a combo package of 25 cars and 5 tracks for $25 US. And then if there are individual elements you want to add in, throw them in singly. I imagine the Nurb Complex will be available as a single download only.
- Oh yeah. All parts available in the first download or on the game disc. All sports mods, racing kits, body kits, paint shop and racing mods.

Oh, and another thing. I HATE the idea of limited edition content, unless it's something you can recreate yourself with some work on your part. What I mean by that is, I don't want to see a special racing edition Ferrari F599 made with special paint jobs and body kits unique to it, and made in a lot of say 10,000. That would really suck if I had no chance to have something like that outside of some olympic achievement in an online race tournament or something.

I WOULD be okay with it if it was still available as an unlockable or a special unique purchase, or if I could modify it myself, buy the mods, body kits and paint/decal it myself. Of course if I created my own racecar, I'd want my own unique paint job, name and number on it, but if I did want that car, it would be nice to be able to have it in some form or fashion, like it always has been in Gran Turismo. Don't create cars that only a select few are allowed to have.

i chose the "complete package" option. i may never buy anything off the online store so naturaly i want the most content i can get already on the disk, however the idea of being able to expand the game with new cars and tracks as they become available does apeal to me. additionaly, i've always felt GT should go more towards the sim route. the prize cars are kind of silly. how many real racing series give you a car for winning? i mean really? nah i think game completion and money should be the only rewards for progressing through the game. all cars should be available for purchase in the dealerships throughout the game. even the race and special cars. albeit priced to require some effort to attain. not so much with the race cars though because you do actualy need them to compete in some of the higher series. and natualy all tracks should be available as well. same for arcade mode. arcade mode should be just that, for arcade action. quick race and two player stuff, nothing that has to be completed, nothing you ever have to touch.

Michael 88

I hope everyone ticks #2.

Otherweise, you are an a__h___e.

Click to expand...

Jumble.org

Results for a??h???e

• alehouse
• altheine
• archaize
• archduke
• archlute
• archwife
• archwise
• asphalte

Click to expand...

the Interceptor

As far as I know, Sony and/or PD employees do browse this forum from time to time, and I really hope they will read this thread. I think they are making a dreadful mistake, and that they are ripping of all the enthusiasts that have been following the GT series so loyally over the years.

Click to expand...

I think it's worse than that - it's a failure of marketing.

Look at it this way - how many copies of each GT game have they sold? In total more than 47 MILLION. For the full releases (skipping out Concept and Prologue) it breaks down like this:
GT - 10.8 million
GT2 - 9.3 million
GT3 - 14.3 million
GT4 - 10.0 million

You could draw any number of conclusions over this - the first game on each machine sells better, people don't care enough about additional cars or refined physics, whatever. But the fact is that the majority of sales are kids - perhaps explaining the refined physics/additional cars thing. They only drive the fastest ones and don't like understeer because everyone knows that all cars go sideways in a corner. But I digress. Kids have a microscopic attention span. These folk make a mayfly look attentive. You chuck out a partial release with mainly slow cars and a couple of tracks and they'll play it once, file it underneath Ico and buy the next Need for Burnwipe game instead. Then, when the next version of your game comes out, it tanks - because they remember that the partial release was bobbins and don't badger their parents to buy it.

Meanwhile, the hardcore fans look at the download prices and think "Hold up... I could buy a 42" Plasma TV just to get a complete version. 🤬 this", hardcore fans who haven't bought a PS3, because it's awesomely expensive, won't buy it because they haven't bought a PS3 and some of the remainder just lose interest and either get a wife or start playing the much cheaper PC sims.

By the time the full release appears, the fan base is down to super-geeks (like me) and the game sells half a copy a year worldwide. And GTPlanet goes down with the ship...


In fact, let's look at PD's history with partial releases...
GT: Concept - 1.5 million
GT: Prologue - 1.3 million
These preceded GT4 which, despite oodles more cars, better physics and ubergraphics, is still only the 3rd best-selling GT game.


Worse still is if the GTHD download system takes off because some of the hardcore nuts simply MUST race each other online at Red Rock Valley in Subaru SVXs. With the loss of revenue through reduced sales, PD/Sony see the download system as the only way of making money from the franchise. GT5 will then come as a reduced-content version, with about the same number of cars and tracks as GT3 (oh, they'll stuff in a couple of faster cars, a few JGTCs and some fast road cars, with the 'Ring), and almost everything interesting - out of the 2,000 cars and 100 tracks - must be downloaded.


One of the central tenets of GT is that you can drive your car on the track - why else are there 98 different R32-R34 Skylines and Evo4-8 Lancers? But let's face it, most of us don't drive cars which are that interesting, so they won't be in the game and we'll have to download them (well, we won't have to) - which skews the game away from this. Yes, your car is available, but not on the original release. And there's always the danger that unpopular downloads will be removed... I can't imagine more than a couple thousand people wanting my car rather than a new LMP/GT500/GT300.


Downloads serve a purpose. They can be used to update an existing game to keep it fresh while the new one with the even-better-graphics and even-dumber-AI is on its way in 12 months. 18 months. Christmas. Next Christmas. Maybe Easter. But to use them so you don't have to provide content on a new release is a highly dangerous path to take.

you start with a complete package (lets say 2.000 cars and 100 tracks) and then PD puts aditional models for download after the game is released. (not holding back content) 22 78.57%

Click to expand...

This is obviously the best option of them all. I'd like this and then to pick up the newer corvette, or even bi-yearly tracks or something.

won't buy it because they haven't bought a PS3 and some of the remainder just lose interest and either get a wife or start playing the much cheaper PC sims.

Click to expand...

I wasn't aware that you could buy a pc capable of playing newer games for less money than a PS3 and a nice tv. ok the tv is pushing it but you should see my point that the computer is going to cost way more than the ps3.


//GT: Concept - 1.5 million
//GT: Prologue - 1.3 million

you could never walk into a store or buy these. GT3 outsold gt4 because it came in the ps2 box for a lot of people AND has what 4 extra years?

Gran Turismo is one of the few games I still play. As an adult, time is limited for this kind of activity. I've already had serious thoughts about not purchasing the PS3 simply because I think the price is a complete joke, and because of other technological concerns. For example, my High Def Digital Light Projector is an Analog Component setup, and despite seeing the specs which list Component as a valid output from the PS3, I'm not completely sure it will work as there are apparently 2 different Component standards which are not compatible. Additionally, I just want a game system, not a complete multi-function device and I don't give a rats-whisker about blue-ray OR HD DVDs as I have no intention of purchasing either one until the "format war" is completely over. I feel I would already be paying far too much for the PS3 since it will sit there and do nothing unless I'm using it for the one thing I want it for: to play games (mostly GT5).

But, I can definitely say, if Sony goes with some design where you don't even get a "complete" GT5 without paying even more for the "privilege", I'll be jumping ship and waiting for a similar concept to make it onto a cheaper system (XBox 360). Logitech is apparently working on a "real" wheel for the Xbox, so once that is in hand, and a good racing sim comes along to make proper use of it, the need to purchase an over-priced system just to have a good racing sim will go away.

This is all a shame, as I was always impressed and happy with my PS1 and PS2 (except for the CD drive wearing out), and Sony products in general, but as other people have mentioned, they seem to have totally "lost their minds" recently, the initial starting price of the PS3 being only one of the symptoms...

Even their quality is no longer anything special: Failing batteries for laptops, anyone? anyone? How about a PS2 with a CD drive almost certain to begin failing in about 2 years? How about a new laptop design which is the most obvious rip-off of the MacBook yet? What happened to Sony quality and innovation?

For the record. I have no problem if, for example, they add a new track a few months later and charge a *reasonable* amount for it. But the initial product better be 100% complete out of the box! No artificially limited number or cars or tracks!

Grayman222

//GT: Concept - 1.5 million
//GT: Prologue - 1.3 million

you could never walk into a store or buy these. GT3 outsold gt4 because it came in the ps2 box for a lot of people AND has what 4 extra years?

Click to expand...

I bought my Concept and Prologue in stores.

Grayman222

//GT: Concept - 1.5 million
//GT: Prologue - 1.3 million

you could never walk into a store or buy these

Click to expand...

That depended on the country you live in, as the Interceptor said you could walk into a store and buy them. The vast majority of people that bought them did just that.

The only place that you could not do that in was North America.

Regards


Scaff

That's exactley how I got GT Concept, walked into the shop without it, walked out the shop with it.

Regarding these options, option 2 and 3 are he two best, 2 only because the gaems itself would be at a reduced rate but even then it would only be better than two if the additional content was pennies, and I do mean pennies per car and track, otherwise you'd still be looking at spending in the hundereds of pounds to get the complete game you could have had with option 2. I've gone for option 2, the game should be launched as a complete package with nothing deliberately held back, then every month or two they could release additional cars and/or tracks which you could then choose to buy if you wanted but in this instance not buying them is not in any way compromising the game you initially bought. Whereas in the other options the game is compromised before you put the disk in the drive unless you pay for downloads.

I choose 2...... I dont like this pay as you go thing PD are trying with GTHD, I want the whole package like its always been..... you would also end up spending way more if you bought everything individually if you wanted all the content...... Just do like all the others do (TDU, PGR) give us loads and add more....

Robin

Robin ///////

I choose 2...... I dont like this pay as you go thing PD are trying with GTHD, I want the whole package like its always been..... you would also end up spending way more if you bought everything individually if you wanted all the content...... Just do like all the others do (TDU, PGR) give us loads and add more....

Robin

Click to expand...

Buy this man a beer.

I`ll stick with the majority.

I see no problem in expansion packs, for example. I just want to be able to fully play it wether i want to expand it by buying more content or not.

Grayman222

I wasn't aware that you could buy a pc capable of playing newer games for less money than a PS3 and a nice tv. ok the tv is pushing it but you should see my point that the computer is going to cost way more than the ps3.

Click to expand...

PS3 (60GB) price in UK - £600
This computer price in UK - £423. Chuck in a half-gig graphics card and you're right there for price.

Besides, who said anything about "newer games"? I said "much cheaper PC sims".

Grayman222

//GT: Concept - 1.5 million
//GT: Prologue - 1.3 million

you could never walk into a store or buy these.

Click to expand...

I did.

Grayman222

GT3 outsold gt4 because it came in the ps2 box for a lot of people AND has what 4 extra years?

Click to expand...

GT4 came bundled with the PSTwo (the slim PS2) - in a special pack too. But GT4 is still behind the original - a game which had no reputation to play on - and only marginally ahead of GT2. I didn't offer a reason why this was so - only a list of possible reasons that might be claimed. The fact that GT: Concept and GT: Prologue were piddly versions designed to appease during the long delay is merely amongst them.

A new PC sim for example GTR2 only costs £25 in the UK anyway, a new game of XB360 is £40 at the bvery cheapest barring Rockstar Table tennis whichw as sold as a budget game for £25.

oh i see you are getting charged double for ps3s so your math makes sense to you. In england you are right. In canada I'm right.

In north america if you bought a computer that cheap(cheap as in your overly priced PS3) it wouldn't be playing new games a year after it came out. If you use the american ps3 pricing even older games like quake 4 or oblivion would give substandard performance and new games(next summerish) would be unplayably slow.

Older PC games? doesn't really count since you could also just play older console games too.


GT:concept wasn't in stores in north america, i think it was at motor shows if you were lucky. Also, 1.5 million is amazing sales for a game. Assuming it would have sold s similar amount in NA that would have put it in the top 100 games of the last generation(locally) for sales. Of course it just would have been roped in with gt3(3rd out of 100)

Grayman222

oh i see you are getting charged double for ps3s so your math makes sense to you. In england you are right. In canada I'm right.

In north america if you bought a computer that cheap(cheap as in your overly priced PS3) it wouldn't be playing new games a year after it came out. If you use the american ps3 pricing even older games like quake 4 or oblivion would give substandard performance and new games(next summerish) would be unplayably slow.

Older PC games? doesn't really count since you could also just play older console games too.

Click to expand...

You're still working on age. I, quite clearly, said "cheaper PC sims". Have a look at Live for Speed - free, I can play it on the computer I put together for a grand total of £250, "more accurate" handling model than GT, free to download mods and car packages, and so on and so forth.

Quite where Quake and Oblivion come into it I don't know. All I said was that by the time the full release turns up, GT will have lost an awful lot of its market to other areas - part of this will be down to the price of a PS3 plus the price of a game with just 30 cars and 2 tracks in it plus the price of having to download anything remotely interesting, compared to the price of a PC you already have and a free game with free downloads.

Grayman222

GT:concept wasn't in stores in north america,

Click to expand...

I know. This has a lot to do with the fact that there was never an American release. There were two NTSC/J releases and one PAL release. Any of which you could go into a store and buy - and all of which I own.

Grayman222

i think it was at motor shows if you were lucky.

Click to expand...

Though you wouldn't have been able to play it if you got it... NTSC/J and PAL only.

Grayman222

Also, 1.5 million is amazing sales for a game. Assuming it would have sold s similar amount in NA that would have put it in the top 100 games of the last generation(locally) for sales. Of course it just would have been roped in with gt3(3rd out of 100)

Click to expand...

Why would it have sold a similar amount in North America? There were three different Concepts for a start... Plus it was really quite shallow - possible to complete in 30 minutes with just 65 cars, without ability to tune them and GT3's physics.

1.5 million for a game is nothing. It was outsold by Sega Virtua Rally on the Sega Saturn, Super Scope 6 on the NES, Pikmin on the N64, Kirby and the Amazing Mirror on the GBA and Sega Bass Fishing on the Dreamcast - to name but a few dismal titles without the history and reputation of 3 previous and highly-successful games to play on.


But I digress. Point is if PD/Sony insist on releasing an almost content-free game (basically a physics and graphics engine without any cars and tracks to try them out on) and charging for downloading anything interesting they're going to lose a great deal of their market for GT5.

Famine

Pikmin on the N64,

Click to expand...

Pikmin was on the Gamecube.

I agree with everyone who has chosen two. If GT5 is going to be released in 2008 there's is plenty of time to save some money to purchase GT5 at it's full price. It is also the best plan for those who are not ready to commit to online. Is it possible for manufactures to produce a disc and hand out free copies to the public? Toyota try something like this during the early days of GT4. Visiting various performance parts websites may allow us to download content to the PS3 hard drive. Just a thought or something to make you say hmmmmmm.

Duċk;2429068

Pikmin was on the Gamecube.

Click to expand...

It just arrived in my head as "some kiddies' game for the 3rd place console"...

Famine

It just arrived in my head as "some kiddies' game for the 3rd place console"...

Click to expand...

I'm so glad Nintendo has finally decided that they need to do something to change that image, with the Wii...

panjandrum

This is all a shame, as I was always impressed and happy with my PS1 and PS2 (except for the CD drive wearing out), and Sony products in general, but as other people have mentioned, they seem to have totally "lost their minds" recently, the initial starting price of the PS3 being only one of the symptoms...

Even their quality is no longer anything special: Failing batteries for laptops, anyone? anyone? How about a PS2 with a CD drive almost certain to begin failing in about 2 years? How about a new laptop design which is the most obvious rip-off of the MacBook yet? What happened to Sony quality and innovation?

For the record. I have no problem if, for example, they add a new track a few months later and charge a *reasonable* amount for it. But the initial product better be 100% complete out of the box! No artificially limited number or cars or tracks!

Click to expand...

+1. 👍

Grayman222

oh i see you are getting charged double for ps3s so your math makes sense to you. In england you are right. In canada I'm right.

In north america if you bought a computer that cheap(cheap as in your overly priced PS3) it wouldn't be playing new games a year after it came out. If you use the american ps3 pricing even older games like quake 4 or oblivion would give substandard performance and new games(next summerish) would be unplayably slow.

Older PC games? doesn't really count since you could also just play older console games too.

Click to expand...

I don't know about the Canadian PC market, but $1,139.80 (the USD equivalent of £600) is more than enough for a complete computer system (monitor and all) that is equal to or better than the system that Famine posted. In fact, I customized a system on CPU Solutions that was almost exactly like the one Famine linked to for about $830 (which, incidentally, is close to £423).

Of course, that's still more expensive than $599, but with a PC you get the ability to upgrade without buying a whole new computer, a keyboard and mouse (which will always be better than a gamepad for first-person-shooters and internet browsing), the ability to play games without hogging a TV, countless useful programs or utilities that simply don't belong on a videogame console, and a game library that not only includes the entire history of PC games (granted that you don't mind using dosbox for the oldest of PC games), but also almost every single console game (granted that you don't mind using emulators).

Comparing a videogame console to a PC is like comparing a motorcycle to a sports sedan. Sure, the motorcycle is often faster and always cheaper, but I'd like to see you try to go on a short vacation with your family of four and a weekend's worth of clothing and supplies using only the motorcycle.

Here are a few more things to consider:

What if some people "buy" into this money-making scheme of theirs and SONY decides to pull it out of GT5? Marketing models change all of the time. What happens to everyone's investment? Poof! Gone with the next version! There is nothing to say SONY can't or won't do that.

What happens if you are rich enough to want to own two or more consoles? I am not the only one to own 3 PS2s. You buy them, then you need to populate the content on all of your consoles. **cough** Can we say "late retirement"? Yes, we can.

There is no up-side to these mega-transactions and this marketing model.

Cheers,

MasterGT

yes, they are testing the waters. if they suceed at that, they might try to do something similar in GT5. which is why, as strange as it may seem, i´m rooting for this GT HD to fail. then we can get our GT5 the way its supposed to be

fasj6418

yes, they are testing the waters

Click to expand...

PD will drown.

Boycott that system!

Haven't read the replies in this topic but here's my opinions.

I am AGAINST 'microtransactions'/downloadable content if you have to pay for them.

Why?

- Don't have a credit card and do not plan on getting one even if i won millions in Lotto. I also do not know anyone with one. Hundreds of thousands of other GT players also likely don't have a credit card, nor access to one.

- Our broadband likely isn't fast enough to play online or download content. And what about the hundreds of thousands of other GT players who only have 56k connections or slower, even no internet connection at all?

- Console games should have ALL the content available RIGHT AWAY. Downloadable content should only be on PC games at this level (RE: GTHD Premium being released with no cars or tracks or whatever the deal is). And paying for those downloads is another thing, haven't they already taken enough money off us by selling the game itself? (answer by them would of course be no).

Okay, downloadable content would be great if the game already started out with hundreds/thousands of cars and heaps of tracks etc, but only if it was free. PS3 and everything associated with it looks to be the most expensive console so far and that isn't a good thing.

At the moment i'm probably looking forward to Forza 2 a lot more than GT HD after hearing about the microtransactions.

Then there is the issue someone else mentioned in another topic - what happens to all those cars which don't get downloaded (for example, an R32 Skyline GTS sedan or old 80's deisel Peugeot? Do they get taken off the downloadable content because they are taking up space?

It is seriously unacceptable and is definately the wrong thing to be doing to the GT series. If we are to pay for cars, tracks and whatever else then maybe they should start reading our suggestions for future GT games closer.

And before anyone says it, if i was a multimillionaiire i'd still be complaining about this, especially if they started adding patches to fix up game errors and so on - then they may as well chuck the series onto PC's as thats what other lazy developers seem to do.

I could go on about this for ages, but i just can't put into words how i truely feel about it.

And paying for those downloads is another thing, haven't they already taken enough money off us by selling the game itself? (answer by them would of course be no).

Click to expand...

I have to 2nd that. Exactly my thoughts.