B-spec fight 10,000 points vs. 0 points

So with my wife out of town I thought I would finish up something I started months ago...pitting my 10,000 point B-spec driver against a "rookie" 0 point driver and see what happened.

I attempted to compare them in several ways but by no means would I declare this a true scientific test for the results of training the B-spec driver.

So here is the testing rules:
Two different cars used both 0 miles and no oil change
-VW Lupo 1.4 2002 (new from dealer)
-Nissan 350Z Concept LM Race Car 2002 (won from Japan Championship)
Always reset the PS2 after each run to keep the cars fresh and the rookie from gaining any points. Run both drivers at the same pace settings.

I used four different tracks. Two for practice and two for family cup.
Practice (10 laps run to get an average and standard deviation)
-Midfield (easy fast track)
-Nurb (of course)

Family Cup
-Special Stage Route 5 (easy track rolling start)
-Suzuka Circuit (more technical and standing start)

The method for determining the paces and difficulty settings was to take my 10,000 point driver and run him at a pace where he wasn't going off of the track all of the time. For the family cup races I wanted him to have competition through as much of the race as possible. Then I just used the same settings for the 0 point driver.

The times given for the practice runs are the average of 10 laps and the value after each time in parenthesis is the standard deviation which can tell us how consistent the driver is. I also calculated the time for each split (ex. T2-T1) this will indicate if there was a particular section of track that he was inconsistent on.

The listings will all be like this
T1 - Rookie Time (standard deviation) ------------ 10,000 point time (standard deviation)

Here is the summary for those of you who don't want to read all of the detailed statistics
Lupo 1.2 2002
Midfield (practice)
Pace Setting 3
Lap - 1'46.350 (0'00.351) ------------ 1'44.867 (0'00.070)

Lupo 1.2 2002
Midfield (practice)
Pace Setting 4
Lap - 1'45.713 (0'00.666) ------------ 1'46.632 (0'01.437) My 10,000 point driver kept going into the gravel on the first turn at this pace see the details below

Lupo 1.2 2002
Nurb (Practice)
Pace Setting 3
Lap - 10'05.071 (0'00.894) ------------ 9'57.594 (0'01.561)

Lupo 1.2 2002
SSR5 (Family Cup Difficulty -3)
Pace Setting 3 Overtake on
1st 4'30.414 Storia CX 4WD ------------ 1st 4'23.168 B-spec
2nd 4'30.479 B-spec --------------- 2nd 4'29.984 Storia CX 4WD

Lupo 1.2 2002
Suzuka Circuit (Family Cup Difficulty -3)
Pace Setting 3 Overtake on
1st 6'22.965 B-spec ------------------- 1st 6'12.789 B-spec
2nd Too far behind Storia CX 4WD ------ 2nd Too far behind Storia CX 4WD

Lupo 1.2 2002
Suzuka Circuit (Family Cup Difficulty 0)
Pace Setting 3 Overtake on
1st 6'11.027 Mitsubishi I '03 --------- 1st 6'08.845 Mitsubishi I '03
5th 6'24.203 B-spec ------------------- 2nd 6'13.499 B-spec

Nissan 350Z Concept LM Race Car 2002
Midfield (practice)
Pace Setting 4
Lap - 1'13.262 (0'00.500) ------------ 1'11.429 (0'00.124)

Nissan 350Z Concept LM Race Car 2002
Nurb (practice)
Pace Setting 4
Lap - 7'01.333 (0'00.408) ------------ 6'51.038 (0'00.491)

Nissan 350Z Concept LM Race Car 2002
SSR5 (Family Cup Difficulty -3)
Pace Setting 4 Overtake on
1st 2'57.987 Castrol Mugen NSX '00 ---- 1st 2'56.903 B-spec
6th 3'01.118 B-spec ------------------ 2nd 2'57.622 Castrol Mugen NSX '00

Nissan 350Z Concept LM Race Car 2002
Suzuka Circuit (Family Cup Difficulty -3)
Pace Setting 4 Overtake on
1st 4'17.303 Castrol Mugen NSX '00 ---- 1st 4'07.444 B-spec
4th 4'20.529 B-Spec ------------------ 2nd 4'18.345 Castrol Mugen NSX '00

To conclude the summary yes the B-spec driver is in general better with both faster lap times and more consistent laps (but not always). But he always does better when there are other cars on the track (he still stinks though) tongue

And now for any of you stat freaks (like me) here is all of the details of the practice testing. I didn't bother with splits and everything for the family cup races.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lupo 1.2 2002
Midfield
Pace Setting 3
Lap Times
T1 - 0'33.652 (0'00.337) ------------ 0'32.944 (0'00.058)
T2 - 1'05.214 (0'00.382) ------------ 1'04.076 (0'00.064)
Lap - 1'46.350 (0'00.351) ------------ 1'44.867 (0'00.07)

Split analysis
T1 - 0'33.652 (0'00.337) ------------ 0'32.944 (0'00.058)
T2-T1 - 0'31.562 (0'00.189) ------------ 0'31.133 (0'00.05)
Lap-T2 - 0'41.136 (0'00.242) ------------ 0'40.791 (0'00.047)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lupo 1.2 2002
Midfield
Pace Setting 4
Lap Times
T1 - 0'33.576 (0'00.713) ------------ 0'35.158 (0'01.451)
T2 - 1'04.890 (0'00.706) ------------ 1'05.985 (0'01.469)
Lap - 1'45.713 (0'00.666) ------------ 1'46.632 (0'01.437)

Split Analysis
T1 - 0'33.576 (0'00.713) ------------ 0'35.158 (0'01.451)
T2-T1 - 0'31.314 (0'00.145) ------------ 0'30.827 (0'00.162)
Lap-T2 - 0'40.824 (0'00.100) ------------ 0'40.647 (0'00.051)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lupo 1.2 2002
Nurb
Pace Setting 3
Lap Times
T1 - 1'01.341 (0'00.535) ------------ 1'02.175 (0'01.084)
T2 - 1'49.731 (0'00.632) ------------ 1'50.520 (0'01.349)
T3 - 2'28.570 (0'00.939) ------------ 2'28.641 (0'01.411)
T4 - 3'37.568 (0'00.922) ------------ 3'36.092 (0'01.430)
T5 - 4'33.473 (0'01.262) ------------ 4'30.428 (0'01.415)
T6 - 5'19.172 (0'01.324) ------------ 5'15.932 (0'01.430)
T7 - 6'31.685 (0'01.034) ------------ 6'27.690 (0'01.574)
T8 - 7'26.503 (0'00.739) ------------ 7'20.992 (0'01.502)
T9 - 7'57.064 (0'00.735) ------------ 7'51.126 (0'01.611)
T10 - 8'56.298 (0'00.791) ------------ 8'49.072 (0'01.627)
T11 - 9'32.873 (0'00.799) ------------ 9'25.615 (0'01.632)
Lap - 10'05.071 (0'00.894) ------------ 9'57.594 (0'01.561)

Split Analysis
T1 - 1'01.341 (0'00.535) ------------ 1'02.175 (0'01.084)
T2-T1 - 0'48.390 (0'00.332) ------------ 0'48.345 (0'00.281)
T3-T2 - 0'38.839 (0'00.470) ------------ 0'38.121 (0'00.201)
T4-T3 - 1'08.998 (0'00.491) ------------ 1'07.451 (0'00.167)
T5-T4 - 0'55.906 (0'00.801) ------------ 0'54.337 (0'00.177)
T6-T5 - 0'45.699 (0'00.128) ------------ 0'45.504 (0'00.052)
T7-T6 - 1'12.514 (0'00.488) ------------ 1'11.758 (0'00.252)
T8-T7 - 0'54.818 (0'00.776) ------------ 0'53.302 (0'00.649)
T9-T8 - 0'30.561 (0'00.224) ------------ 0'30.135 (0'00.252)
T10-T9 - 0'59.235 (0'00.364) ------------ 0'57.946 (0'00.222)
T11-T10 - 0'36.575 (0'00.018) ------------ 0'36.543 (0'00.014)
Lap-T11 - 0'32.198 (0'00.431) ------------ 0'31.979 (0'00.236)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nissan 350Z Concept LM Race Car 2002
Midfield
Pace Setting 4
Lap Times
T1 - 0'23.408 (0'00.260) ------------ 0'22.814 (0'00.097)
T2 - 0'45.395 (0'00.494) ------------ 0'44.005 (0'00.120)
Lap - 1'13.262 (0'00.500) ------------ 1'11.429 (0'00.124)

Split Analysis
T1 - 0'23.408 (0'00.260) ------------ 0'22.814 (0'00.097)
T2-T1 - 0'21.986 (0'00.433) ------------ 0'21.191 (0'00.056)
Lap-T2 - 0'27.868 (0'00.208) ------------ 0'27.424 (0'00.074)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nissan 350Z Concept LM Race Car 2002
Nurb
Pace Setting 4
Lap Times
T1 - 0'44.872 (0'00.414) ------------ 0'43.405 (0'00.215)
T2 - 1'19.124 (0'00.626) ------------ 1'16.974 (0'00.327)
T3 - 1'47.282 (0'00.651) ------------ 1'44.189 (0'00.402)
T4 - 2'37.401 (0'00.636) ------------ 2'32.584 (0'00.441)
T5 - 3'14.737 (0'00.862) ------------ 3'08.965 (0'00.451)
T6 - 3'43.150 (0'00.939) ------------ 3'37.452 (0'00.492)
T7 - 4'32.704 (0'00.727) ------------ 4'25.774 (0'00.55)
T8 - 5'12.717 (0'00.693) ------------ 5'04.491 (0'00.606)
T9 - 5'34.574 (0'00.612) ------------ 5'26.102 (0'00.530)
T10 - 6'16.516 (0'00.315) ------------ 6'06.845 (0'00.494)
T11 - 6'39.189 (0'00.308) ------------ 6'29.504 (0'00.480)
Lap - 7'01.333 (0'00.408) ------------ 6'51.038 (0'00.491)

Split Analysis
T1 - 0'44.872 (0'00.414) ------------ 0'43.405 (0'00.215)
T2-T1 - 0'34.252 (0'00.402) ------------ 0'33.569 (0'00.153)
T3-T2 - 0'28.158 (0'00.311) ------------ 0'27.215 (0'00.123)
T4-T3 - 0'50.120 (0'00.436) ------------ 0'48.396 (0'00.183)
T5-T4 - 0'37.335 (0'00.537) ------------ 0'36.381 (0'00.146)
T6-T5 - 0'28.414 (0'00.156) ------------ 0'28.487 (0'00.153)
T7-T6 - 0'49.554 (0'00.469) ------------ 0'48.322 (0'00.142)
T8-T7 - 0'40.013 (0'00.460) ------------ 0'38.717 (0'00.175)
T9-T8 - 0'21.857 (0'00.252) ------------ 0'21.611 (0'00.176)
T10-T9 - 0'41.942 (0'00.443) ------------ 0'40.744 (0'00.162)
T11-T10 - 0'22.673 (0'00.086) ------------ 0'22.659 (0'00.060)
Lap-T11 - 0'22.143 (0'00.222) ------------ 0'21.535 (0'00.111)

And that's all I have to say about that...

Interesting.

If i plan to use my baddog (b-spec name), i would require him to have experiences over tracks. I would have him drive a worst car i have in my garage and he would pratice and pratice till his good at track and with worst case scenero. So far, he made fewest mistake, like about 2 twice against LEMAN at the sarthe II, at Push pace. He been doing good.

His skill is also high, but never high enough to challange me... tho. haha.

Blackhound

This is pretty interesting. I knew that points affect the performance of the driver but never expected it to be like this. In one hand, I'm disappointed because I expected it will run faster. But on the other hand the improvement seems quite large, especially on some tracks where there were around 10 seconds of difference.

+Rep for you TornadoAlley for the extensive test and great post.

GT4_Rule

+Rep for you TornadoAlley for the extensive test and great post.

Click to expand...

Ditto.

It's interesting to see the difference it makes. I've never been bothered doing a test like this, though I have often wondered if the 'experience' of B-Spec Billy Bob Wally counted for anything. Now we all know.

Kudos.

+Rep 👍

An awesome detailed list 👍

Thanks for the positive comments!

I don't have time for more testing but it appeared to me that one area of marked improvement was when the B-spec driver had to deal with other cars on the track. I know he doesn't pass well regardless but those battle points do seem to make him a little more capable of passing.

I think that the AI and the B-spec bob are suppose to be able to match each other evenly or whatsoever. Basically, AIs cant match their skills toward us, in the end result, we still able to ditch them, beat them, and gain victory easily. As long as you raise the AI level, from ranging -10 to 0 to +10. It just dependable how hard you want them to go. but if you just put up, let say roughly 8, and b-spec it. You will see some battle going on, last longer then you did before. The battle will last longer if you b-spec it, and watch them with huge interest. If you a-spec it, you can easily avoid it, and just go for first place. It just we are different and PD just put down some simply ground rule for AIs to follow. I believe, and it just my thought. I could be wrong or whatsoever, but this is my point of veiws. (yes, i know my grammer suck, but hey, im improving.)

Blackhound

Great job TornadoAlley! Tried to +REP you, but says I have to spread it around more. I'll be sure to REP you when it allows me to.

Thanks Digital-Nitrate!

I think I posted this when the boards were moving pretty fast and it got buried in a couple of days.

+Rep Tornado. What a great idea to do something like this. Cool thread. 👍

+rep tornado! good job for doing this.

what an amount of work! awesome

+rep

Digital-Nitrate

Great job TornadoAlley! Tried to +REP you, but says I have to spread it around more. I'll be sure to REP you when it allows me to.

Click to expand...

OK... you've been REPed!

Thanks for the +rep D-N (and all those before him)!

"Somewhere" I read the following...

It has to be said however, the skill level of the driver that you would manage is dependent on the achievement of your license i.e. the amount of gold/silver medals that you earn in each license as well as the highest license that you own.

Has anyone done experiments to definitely refute that? People here have found how to reasonably reliably increase your B-spec skill numbers. It would seem odd to have numbers called "Skill", but have other factors which influence "true skill". Gee, disproving rumours is difficult sometimes.

Take this to a new thread, if you think that's more appropriate. Or is there another thread covering it?

This is the first I've heard of this, but it would actually be relatively easy to test if you are willing to take the time to do it.

Play one game with all or many Gold licenses and a B-Spec driver with 0 points, take your B-spec driver and have him do a specific number of test laps on a specific set of tracks and log each lap time.

Then play a game with no licenses and a B-Spec driver with 0 points, and in the same model car, same mileage, same set-up, do the same number of test laps on the same tracks, and compare lap times.

This should eliminate just about every variable except for the difference in license medals. So if there is a noticeable and predictable difference, then the answer will likely be yes, license medals do impact B-spec performance.

I have never tested for this, but my gut instinct is that you'll likely find there won't be any significant and predictable difference between B-spec driver performance in a game where you have earned or have not earned gold license medals, but if you do the testing, by all means report back your findings! 👍

To all intents and purposes, I can't get gold medals.

I happen to have a couple memory cards kicking around. One has 70+ golds and nothing else whatsoever on it. Another has all licenses with only a handful of golds and silvers, 0.8% completion, and a 10,000 point B-spec driver. Still another has 99.8% completion with 75 golds and 5 silvers, and a 10,000 pt driver. Of course it would be trivial to come up with a 0 license 0 B-spec point game.

I might do some playing around with this over the next couple days. However I suspect the 0 point drivers will have identical times regardless of licenses (or game completion % for that matter), and the 10000 pt drivers will have identical times as well.

Still, the only way to find out is to try it.

EDIT: and so I tried it

I made a copy of a game and called it game "A". Relevant stats on the game are 74 gold and 6 silver license tests, 0/0/0/0 B-spec points. The game is 31.7% complete.

I started a new game on a fresh card and called it game "B". The stats are, of course, 0 licenses, 0/0/0/0 B-spec, 0.0% compete.

I imported 100,000 credits from a GT3 savegame into game B so I could buy a new car; I didn't want to bother with finding a suitable used car (identical mileage etc). I selected a Mazda MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A '04.

I took the car to Trial Mountain and had the B-spec driver drive ten laps, with the following lap times:

1'59.560
1'58.465
1'59.319
1'56.315 (best)
2'00.392
1'59.341
1'59.096
1'59.523
2'02.221 (worst)
1'58.684

Without saving first, I switched to the "A" card, bought the same Miata, and took it to Trial Mountain. The lap times were identical to the "B" card, lap for lap, to the thousandth of a second.

Next I switched back to the "B" game and ran the Sunday Cup race on Clubman Stage Route 5 reverse. The race was run at pace 3 with overtake switched on before the start of the race. Results were:
1. 2'37.208 Fiat Punto HGT Abarth
2. 2'38.107 Peugeot 106 S16
3. 2'38.702 Mazda Miata MX-5 1600 NR-A
4. 2'42.425 Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 Twinspark
5. 2'42.957 Scion xB
6. 2'43.996 VW Polo GTi

I switched back to game "A" and ran the same race again; fortunately the Sunday Cup yields the same lineups after a reset. Again I got the same identical results for all six cars, to the thousandth of a second.

Seeing an obvious and expected trend, I didn't bother testing on more tracks, different cars, etc. In any case, this statement

It has to be said however, the skill level of the driver that you would manage is dependent on the achievement of your license i.e. the amount of gold/silver medals that you earn in each license as well as the highest license that you own

has been demonstrated to be incorrect.